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Egwene/the Aes Sedai


Luckers
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So it is the AS show because BS mentioned that one AS will play a big role?...wow, Elaida when did you escape from Tuon?

 

Don't worry Logain will save the day along with his Asha'man group and their AS warders!!

 

Really? Calling me Elaida after my post? Sharp wit their xxx.

'

You are comedy in the circles you try to argue. Every time you're shown to be wrong you slide on to something else, but then I guess thats what Trolls do. This all started when you said the AS couldn't offer anything in the way of helping rid the BT of DFs. As happens 99% of the time, you were wrong. Pevara and the AS bonded to Ashaman will all play a pivotal role. Not sure why you rebel against the fact that things are heading towards a balance?

 

 

Except this battle will be against Darkfriend Ashaman. If there was to be a balance, then there would have had to have been Ashaman assistance in cleansing the WT of Darkfriend Aes Sedai.

 

Also wouldn't a great number of Darkfriend Ashaman be a confirmation to many Aes Sedai that male channellers are Darkfriends. I don't think it will build trust.

Edited by Master Ablar
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Which means it is ultimately going to be an Ashaman battle, with minimal, if any, Aes Sedai presence.

 

Are you just choosing to ignore the BS quote to the contrary?

 

Hardly, I just haven't seen it or else I have forgotten it. Would you mind pointing it out?

 

No worries...

 

Hopefully we’ll get to see more of Pevara being awesome, but that could possibly appear in a novella on Brandon’s web page that will fill in some missing holes. But no promises!

 

7. Question: Please tell me all you can about the potential novella that fills in holes? What holes? Who? Where will it be published if written? Is this material that you really wanted to include in ToM or TGS but just couldn’t fit in? How does this match up with your feeling about not writing other stuff in the WOT world?

 

7. Answer: There are about 50,000 words of secondary plots that Sanderson wants to include in ToM. He’s just not sure all of it will get into the book. If something gets cut, he’d like to get to his fans on his website.

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Which means it is ultimately going to be an Ashaman battle, with minimal, if any, Aes Sedai presence.

 

Are you just choosing to ignore the BS quote to the contrary?

 

Hardly, I just haven't seen it or else I have forgotten it. Would you mind pointing it out?

 

No worries...

 

Hopefully we’ll get to see more of Pevara being awesome, but that could possibly appear in a novella on Brandon’s web page that will fill in some missing holes. But no promises!

 

7. Question: Please tell me all you can about the potential novella that fills in holes? What holes? Who? Where will it be published if written? Is this material that you really wanted to include in ToM or TGS but just couldn’t fit in? How does this match up with your feeling about not writing other stuff in the WOT world?

 

7. Answer: There are about 50,000 words of secondary plots that Sanderson wants to include in ToM. He’s just not sure all of it will get into the book. If something gets cut, he’d like to get to his fans on his website.

 

Thanks. Well while "being awesome" is rather vague, considering her current position it seems reasonable to assume that she will be involved in whatever happens at the BT. Whether it means simply getting the word out, or taking part in the fighting, and perhaps even leading it, I can't say. Also if she is involved then the other 3 red still with her will probably be involved as well, though likely have lesser roles. As for the Aes Sedai outside the BT, they may or may not be involved. There are so many events that are about to happen, that it's quite possible they will be forced elsewhere.

 

In any case the number of Ashaman still far outnumbers that of the Aes Sedai there, and Pevara is the only one there who is an important character. I can see her having an important role, but it's still mostly Ashaman who will be involved. What is certain is that the current forces of the Light at the BT are far outnumbered, so they'll need to recieve help from elsewhere, and that help must be channellers. The most likely force to help them is the Ashaman currently outside the BT, which make up a little less than half the total Ashaman (it was half when Logain first reports to Rand, but there must be new recruits by now).

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Its seems to me Rand through Naef is giving Logain the go ahead to act against Taim. It looks like once Androl, Pevara and co reach Logains camp it will all kick off,

 

Maybe that is Rand's intention (although I think Naeff's job is mostly scouting for now), but the fact is that he thinks that Logain is at the BT whereas he clearly is not.

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I could see Naeff helping Androl and co escape, but cannot think how he would pull it off.

 

The same way Naeff gets in: using the weave to disguise himself that Rand taught him. Even if they escape though, they have no idea where Logain is. NO ONE has any idea where Logain is. The man's done a Demandred...

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I could see Naeff helping Androl and co escape, but cannot think how he would pull it off.

 

The same way Naeff gets in: using the weave to disguise himself that Rand taught him. Even if they escape though, they have no idea where Logain is. NO ONE has any idea where Logain is. The man's done a Demandred...

 

O yeah. So you think Logains really King Roedran???????? Seriously though were do 300+ Asha'man disapear too?

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I could see Naeff helping Androl and co escape, but cannot think how he would pull it off.

 

The same way Naeff gets in: using the weave to disguise himself that Rand taught him. Even if they escape though, they have no idea where Logain is. NO ONE has any idea where Logain is. The man's done a Demandred...

 

O yeah. So you think Logains really King Roedran???????? Seriously though were do 300+ Asha'man disapear too?

 

300+??? Since when did Logain have that many Ashaman with him? He only took 3 when he left the BT. All the other Ashaman out of the BT were at Maradon, or in Tear or Ilian, or somewhere else in Rand's lands.

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I could see Naeff helping Androl and co escape, but cannot think how he would pull it off.

 

The same way Naeff gets in: using the weave to disguise himself that Rand taught him. Even if they escape though, they have no idea where Logain is. NO ONE has any idea where Logain is. The man's done a Demandred...

 

O yeah. So you think Logains really King Roedran???????? Seriously though were do 300+ Asha'man disapear too?

 

300+??? Since when did Logain have that many Ashaman with him? He only took 3 when he left the BT. All the other Ashaman out of the BT were at Maradon, or in Tear or Ilian, or somewhere else in Rand's lands.

 

 

 

O yeah half the BT is in Arad Doman or Illian. My bad, I got confused.

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Which means it is ultimately going to be an Ashaman battle, with minimal, if any, Aes Sedai presence.

 

Are you just choosing to ignore the BS quote to the contrary?

 

Hardly, I just haven't seen it or else I have forgotten it. Would you mind pointing it out?

 

No worries...

 

Hopefully we’ll get to see more of Pevara being awesome, but that could possibly appear in a novella on Brandon’s web page that will fill in some missing holes. But no promises!

 

7. Question: Please tell me all you can about the potential novella that fills in holes? What holes? Who? Where will it be published if written? Is this material that you really wanted to include in ToM or TGS but just couldn’t fit in? How does this match up with your feeling about not writing other stuff in the WOT world?

 

7. Answer: There are about 50,000 words of secondary plots that Sanderson wants to include in ToM. He’s just not sure all of it will get into the book. If something gets cut, he’d like to get to his fans on his website.

 

Thanks. Well while "being awesome" is rather vague, considering her current position it seems reasonable to assume that she will be involved in whatever happens at the BT. Whether it means simply getting the word out, or taking part in the fighting, and perhaps even leading it, I can't say. Also if she is involved then the other 3 red still with her will probably be involved as well, though likely have lesser roles. As for the Aes Sedai outside the BT, they may or may not be involved. There are so many events that are about to happen, that it's quite possible they will be forced elsewhere.

 

In any case the number of Ashaman still far outnumbers that of the Aes Sedai there, and Pevara is the only one there who is an important character. I can see her having an important role, but it's still mostly Ashaman who will be involved. What is certain is that the current forces of the Light at the BT are far outnumbered, so they'll need to recieve help from elsewhere, and that help must be channellers. The most likely force to help them is the Ashaman currently outside the BT, which make up a little less than half the total Ashaman (it was half when Logain first reports to Rand, but there must be new recruits by now).

 

Being outnumbered shouldn't matter to linked Aes Sedai and Ashaman because together they are much stronger and can do more than black Ashaman who cannot link with each other. I think it's only Tarna who's been 13'd isn't it so that is only one power couple for Taim's side and Logain and co. have already done stuff linked to their Aes Sedai so know about the advantages of that scenario.

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Which means it is ultimately going to be an Ashaman battle, with minimal, if any, Aes Sedai presence.

 

Are you just choosing to ignore the BS quote to the contrary?

 

Hardly, I just haven't seen it or else I have forgotten it. Would you mind pointing it out?

 

No worries...

 

Hopefully we’ll get to see more of Pevara being awesome, but that could possibly appear in a novella on Brandon’s web page that will fill in some missing holes. But no promises!

 

7. Question: Please tell me all you can about the potential novella that fills in holes? What holes? Who? Where will it be published if written? Is this material that you really wanted to include in ToM or TGS but just couldn’t fit in? How does this match up with your feeling about not writing other stuff in the WOT world?

 

7. Answer: There are about 50,000 words of secondary plots that Sanderson wants to include in ToM. He’s just not sure all of it will get into the book. If something gets cut, he’d like to get to his fans on his website.

 

Thanks. Well while "being awesome" is rather vague, considering her current position it seems reasonable to assume that she will be involved in whatever happens at the BT. Whether it means simply getting the word out, or taking part in the fighting, and perhaps even leading it, I can't say. Also if she is involved then the other 3 red still with her will probably be involved as well, though likely have lesser roles. As for the Aes Sedai outside the BT, they may or may not be involved. There are so many events that are about to happen, that it's quite possible they will be forced elsewhere.

 

In any case the number of Ashaman still far outnumbers that of the Aes Sedai there, and Pevara is the only one there who is an important character. I can see her having an important role, but it's still mostly Ashaman who will be involved. What is certain is that the current forces of the Light at the BT are far outnumbered, so they'll need to recieve help from elsewhere, and that help must be channellers. The most likely force to help them is the Ashaman currently outside the BT, which make up a little less than half the total Ashaman (it was half when Logain first reports to Rand, but there must be new recruits by now).

 

Being outnumbered shouldn't matter to linked Aes Sedai and Ashaman because together they are much stronger and can do more than black Ashaman who cannot link with each other. I think it's only Tarna who's been 13'd isn't it so that is only one power couple for Taim's side and Logain and co. have already done stuff linked to their Aes Sedai so know about the advantages of that scenario.

 

Only Tarna has been turned, but Javindhra is almost certainly black. That leaves four Aes Sedai to fight with the Ashaman loyal to Rand. That means either one "big" cirle of 4 women and 3 men, or 4 cirles of 1 woman and 2 men each. That along with the other Ashaman loyal to Rand at the BT. They aren't outnumbered 2 to 1. It's closer to 10 to 1. Circles or not, they can't fight those odds, particularly since Taim is no fool and isn't going to try and overpower cirles, but take advantage of their weakness, which is that only one person can channel in a cirle.

 

Now if Logain returns with the nearly half of the BT loyal to Rand, then that would certainly swing the battle in their favor. They just need to find Logain and get the word out that Taim is up to no good. Maybe Rand himself will actually bother to come to the BT himself. He seems to intend to in ToM.

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Only Tarna has been turned, but Javindhra is almost certainly black. That leaves four Aes Sedai to fight with the Ashaman loyal to Rand. That means either one "big" cirle of 4 women and 3 men, or 4 cirles of 1 woman and 2 men each. That along with the other Ashaman loyal to Rand at the BT. They aren't outnumbered 2 to 1. It's closer to 10 to 1. Circles or not, they can't fight those odds, particularly since Taim is no fool and isn't going to try and overpower cirles, but take advantage of their weakness, which is that only one person can channel in a cirle.

 

Now if Logain returns with the nearly half of the BT loyal to Rand, then that would certainly swing the battle in their favor. They just need to find Logain and get the word out that Taim is up to no good. Maybe Rand himself will actually bother to come to the BT himself. He seems to intend to in ToM.

 

 

 

 

 

There is also the Salidar AS just outside the walls(Nyn visits them when she takes Lan's bond). At least 47 of them. If someone will explain things to them, I think they'll also join the good side.

When Logain and the 50 bonded AS will return, they'll have almost 100 light side AS on their side(hopefully).

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Only Tarna has been turned, but Javindhra is almost certainly black. That leaves four Aes Sedai to fight with the Ashaman loyal to Rand. That means either one "big" cirle of 4 women and 3 men, or 4 cirles of 1 woman and 2 men each. That along with the other Ashaman loyal to Rand at the BT. They aren't outnumbered 2 to 1. It's closer to 10 to 1. Circles or not, they can't fight those odds, particularly since Taim is no fool and isn't going to try and overpower cirles, but take advantage of their weakness, which is that only one person can channel in a cirle.

 

Now if Logain returns with the nearly half of the BT loyal to Rand, then that would certainly swing the battle in their favor. They just need to find Logain and get the word out that Taim is up to no good. Maybe Rand himself will actually bother to come to the BT himself. He seems to intend to in ToM.

 

 

 

 

 

There is also the Salidar AS just outside the walls(Nyn visits them when she takes Lan's bond). At least 47 of them. If someone will explain things to them, I think they'll also join the good side.

When Logain and the 50 bonded AS will return, they'll have almost 100 light side AS on their side(hopefully).

 

They might, but it'll have to be some good explaining and by someone they'll trust. It'll be hard to get word out of the BT at all to begin with. As for Logain he has to be found first and he doesn't have the 50 bonded Aes Sedai with him. Those are presumably with their Ashaman who are currently in various locations. And the Salidar AS might have other things to do, as the Seanchan are planning on attacking the WT again.

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I never really hated Egwene until Towers of Midnight.

 

I respect her as a character and I have no problem with her leadership of the Aes Sedai; it's entirely in keeping with what she's built up to be, and no more unrealistic than what some of the other characters get up to.

 

What I do have a problem with is her treatment of friends and loved ones; specifically, Gawyn, Perrin and Nynaeve.

 

While I don't object to her demanding the proper respect from Nynaeve in public, seeing her browbeat one of her closest friends into submission even in private with her newfound authority greatly displeased me. Rand, the freaking Dragon Reborn and prophesied savior of all mankind, doesn't demand anywhere near the same level of formality in private from friends. And if I recall correctly (which I likely may not) neither did Siuan during her time as Amyrlin. There's also Nynaeve's farce of a raising. Egwene nearly allowed her friend to die, she subjected her to horrific and utterly unnecessary torments, and what for? Other characters amply demonstrate that Egwene could easily and justly have stepped in (or at least ordered them to dial it back) with plenty of justification, and she doesn't. And that last test was pure cruelty, plain and simple. Utterly distasteful.

 

Then we've got Perrin. She encounters him in TAR. And there, she binds him in the middle of an Aes Sedai free-fire zone. That really flummoxed me. I have no problem with her being in a rush and taking hasty action, but I simply can't justify essentially attempting to leave a friend trussed-up and unable to move in a warzone, especially when he is explicitly known to and hunted by servants of the Dark One. She should know better.

 

Finally, she actually made me feel sorry for Gawyn, which is something I was sure I'd never be able to do, and she's just so utterly cold towards him. Again, I've got no problem with formality in public; if she wishes to claim what's due her station, that's fine. But her friends and loved ones deserve better in private. The man defeats three unstoppable assassins and nearly dies for her after she chased him away, she bonds him and pledges to marry him, and then she makes him sleep in another room? The things he puts up with for love.

 

I'm sure all of this has been said many times before, just figured I'd iterate my own personal position on Egwene.

 

I enjoy the Aes Sedai in general; they're quite an interesting organization, as the idea of a female-dominant power is quite intriguing to examine in contrast to the modern male-dominated society we have today. Additionally, they've produced one of my favorite characters (Nynaeve) although it could be argued that she's often not much like most of the other Aes Sedai.

 

It's mainly just their current leader that I really don't like.

Edited by TheTuninator
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Only one who needs sympathy is gawyn.

 

With Perrin she had no idea on his powers or talents and it was just a case of binding him and trying to keep him safe although it was a misguided way of doing it. Intention was good. Execution was bad.

 

With nynaeve, well she needed a beatdown. Someone needed to tell her that Egwene is no longer the innkeeper's daughter and even if you grew up together and remain best of friends, when your superior gives you a command you obey it. Nynaeve had to learn it the hard way in tha TAR meeting

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Everything but the Perrin part is opinion (Some of which I agree with, some of which I don't), so I won't argue it. However, a lot of people who don't particularly keep up with the interviews took the T'A'R battle and Egwene's reaction to Perrin the wrong way. Her intent was to move him to another part of the Tower, she was not going to simply leave him there where the fight was taking place.

 

 

A: (not verbatim) Egwene thought she was doing the right thing. She was acting as the Amyrlin and trying to make sure that he would be safe and out of the way of danger. She was not going to tie him up and leave him, she would have brought him somewhere safe away from the danger of the fight and left him there until it was over.
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With nynaeve, well she needed a beatdown. Someone needed to tell her that Egwene is no longer the innkeeper's daughter and even if you grew up together and remain best of friends, when your superior gives you a command you obey it. Nynaeve had to learn it the hard way in tha TAR meeting

 

Firstly, he was specifically talking about Egwene's treatment of Nynaeve during Nynaeve's AS testing and not the TAR meeting.

 

Secondly, the meeting in TAR was before Egwene was raised and when Egwene and Nynaeve were both Accepted. She had no authority over Nynaeve in any way.

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Guest PiotrekS

Egwene trying to bind Perrin was IMHO just a not very well written scene. If the author wanted to show that Egwene underestimated Perrin's abilities, the balefire scene was enough. While I don't particularly like Egwene, she was never portrayed as dumb. Binding Perrin in the middle of the battle to keep him safe? C'mon, Egwene would immediately move him somewhere or entirely out of TR (or she would try and fail, taking into account Perrin's mastery). But doing what she did is so stupid that I can't look at it differently than a bad writing idea (something that should have been deleted in editing) and forget about it when thinking about Egwene. Brandon had to make a statement that Egwene wanted in fact to keep Perrin safe, because the scene was so ridiculous and confusing.

Edited by PiotrekS
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With Perrin she had no idea on his powers or talents and it was just a case of binding him and trying to keep him safe although it was a misguided way of doing it. Intention was good. Execution was bad.

Given the above Sanderson quote, I'll give that one to you, although I remain convinced that the binding was grossly unnecessary and highly arrogant on her part. A quick explanation or even a simple attempt to shift would have served far better.

 

With nynaeve, well she needed a beatdown. Someone needed to tell her that Egwene is no longer the innkeeper's daughter and even if you grew up together and remain best of friends, when your superior gives you a command you obey it. Nynaeve had to learn it the hard way in tha TAR meeting

 

Oh, I agree entirely that she's in full right to demand proper obeisance from Nynaeve in public. What I can't agree with is how she also demands such cold formality in her personal life. Again, very few (if any) of the other young WoT characters who ascend to such precarious positions of power (Elayne, Perrin, Mat, and Rand, to name a few) demand such coldness and formality even in private. Rand's position is just as precarious, as is Elayne's, yet you don't see them demanding that Min or Birgitte bow and scrape before them. At least, not to my knowledge, anyways.

 

And what she does to Nynaeve, and allows others to do, during the test is cruel torture, plain and simple. She not only permits but encourages and aids in the intense physical and mental torture of Nynaeve far, far above and beyond what the test requires. There's no excuse for what she does there, none whatsoever. She practically sends Nynaeve to her death and then doesn't even truly apologize. It's appalling.

 

Furthermore, her cruelty nearly allows Nynaeve's enemies an excuse to fail her as she is placed in situation after situation which go far beyond what the rules of the test were constructed for. The test was cited as, what, at least dozens of times more difficult than it should've been? It's Egwene's responsibility as Amyrlin to ensure fairness and justice among Aes Sedai, and she fails utterly here.

 

Egwene's so afraid to lose even a shred of her power by appearing biased that she doesn't intervene at all, and that's simply not okay by my standards.

 

Additionally, she fails in her primary goal of retaining power and influence. She does not intervene in order to "avoid bias", correct? Yet by failing to stop a grossly unfair test, she fails on a number of levels. She fails in her duty as Amyrlin, to ensure fairness and justice between all Aes Sedai. She fails in her desire to reign in her enemies, because she gives them the impression that she won't intervene against them when she has just grounds for doing so. She fails in her desire to retain power again, by making it clear to her allies that she'll hang them out to dry if they risk endangering her authority even a little.

 

It's not only a grossly cruel move but also an entirely foolish one from a political perspective as well. She shows an exploitable weakness to her enemies (fear of appearing biased) and a lack of reliability to her allies. Overall, a very bad move no matter what angle you examine it from.

 

 

Egwene trying to bind Perrin was IMHO just a not very well written scene. If the author wanted to show that Egwene underestimated Perrin's abilities, the balefire scene was enough. While I don't particularly like Egwene, she was never portrayed as dumb. Binding Perrin in the middle of the battle to keep him safe? C'mon, Egwene would immediately move him somewhere or entirely out of TR (or she would try and fail, taking into account Perrin's mastery). But doing what she did is so stupid that I can't look at it differently than a bad writing idea (something that should have been deleted in editing) and forget about it when thinking about Egwene. Brandon had to make a statement that Egwene wanted in fact to keep Perrin safe, because the scene was so ridiculous and confusing.

 

I would disagree. Egwene, as demonstrated in ToM, has become rather arrogant to a degree. She's always been so (note in tSR when she thinks she's a match for Rand) but it's especially pronounced in ToM, and logically so; she's just achieved a great triumph as Amyrlin.

 

As such, I have no problem with the idea that she'd run into Perrin and immediately assume that he had no idea what he was doing and restrain him. The exact same thing happens with Gawyn; she assumes she's more knowledgeable when in fact she's not and ends up making a terrible decision as a result.

 

In my eyes, her attempt to tie up Perrin doesn't serve to show how much more skilled he currently is in TAR (balefire demonstrates that well) but rather, how Egwene has become more arrogant; this is corroborated by her actions re: Gawyn earlier in the book. She thinks she knows best and acts on it immediately without including Perrin at all.

 

To me, it's much like Rand when he was slipping into the Dark Side; he assumed he knew what was best to the detriment of others, and things ended badly. Egwene's going through the same phase at the moment; hopefully the events of ToM have snapped her out of it.

Edited by TheTuninator
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Egwene probably didn't do her duty to Nynaeve during the test I'm not going to argue that...

 

But...

 

We have seen something similar done by Elaida when Moiraine tested in New Spring. I think their excuses were similar as well, along the lines of: that a woman with so much potential had to prove themselves above and beyond.

 

Elaida didn't like Moiraine or Suian so it was probably completely petty on her part, but Nynaeve didn't make many friends of her peers in Salidar because of her temper and insistence that she was Aes Sedai based on Egwene's proclamation etc..

 

Egwene did ask Nynaeve for advice (can't remember if it was before or after the test) on how to get the Sitters to respect her and asked how Nynaeve had dealt with everyone in the Two Rivers thinking she was too young for the role of Wisdom. So now that Nynaeve realises that that is why Egwene has been so cold and formal with her I think their relationship will improve in AMoL. Nynaeve was the one to tell her to never give an inch to anyone. Even Mat gave Egwene more respect back in Salidar than she had recieved from anyone, ever. Egwene had to put Suian in her place but their relationship was fine after. The difference was that Suian understood why and Nynaeve likes to learn things the hard way.

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With Perrin she had no idea on his powers or talents and it was just a case of binding him and trying to keep him safe although it was a misguided way of doing it. Intention was good. Execution was bad.

Given the above Sanderson quote, I'll give that one to you, although I remain convinced that the binding was grossly unnecessary and highly arrogant on her part. A quick explanation or even a simple attempt to shift would have served far better.

 

With nynaeve, well she needed a beatdown. Someone needed to tell her that Egwene is no longer the innkeeper's daughter and even if you grew up together and remain best of friends, when your superior gives you a command you obey it. Nynaeve had to learn it the hard way in tha TAR meeting

 

Oh, I agree entirely that she's in full right to demand proper obeisance from Nynaeve in public. What I can't agree with is how she also demands such cold formality in her personal life. Again, very few (if any) of the other young WoT characters who ascend to such precarious positions of power (Elayne, Perrin, Mat, and Rand, to name a few) demand such coldness and formality even in private. Rand's position is just as precarious, as is Elayne's, yet you don't see them demanding that Min or Birgitte bow and scrape before them. At least, not to my knowledge, anyways.

 

And what she does to Nynaeve, and allows others to do, during the test is cruel torture, plain and simple. She not only permits but encourages and aids in the intense physical and mental torture of Nynaeve far, far above and beyond what the test requires. There's no excuse for what she does there, none whatsoever. She practically sends Nynaeve to her death and then doesn't even truly apologize. It's appalling.

 

Furthermore, her cruelty nearly allows Nynaeve's enemies an excuse to fail her as she is placed in situation after situation which go far beyond what the rules of the test were constructed for. The test was cited as, what, at least dozens of times more difficult than it should've been? It's Egwene's responsibility as Amyrlin to ensure fairness and justice among Aes Sedai, and she fails utterly here.

 

Egwene's so afraid to lose even a shred of her power by appearing biased that she doesn't intervene at all, and that's simply not okay by my standards.

 

Additionally, she fails in her primary goal of retaining power and influence. She does not intervene in order to "avoid bias", correct? Yet by failing to stop a grossly unfair test, she fails on a number of levels. She fails in her duty as Amyrlin, to ensure fairness and justice between all Aes Sedai. She fails in her desire to reign in her enemies, because she gives them the impression that she won't intervene against them when she has just grounds for doing so. She fails in her desire to retain power again, by making it clear to her allies that she'll hang them out to dry if they risk endangering her authority even a little.

 

It's not only a grossly cruel move but also an entirely foolish one from a political perspective as well. She shows an exploitable weakness to her enemies (fear of appearing biased) and a lack of reliability to her allies. Overall, a very bad move no matter what angle you examine it from.

 

 

Egwene trying to bind Perrin was IMHO just a not very well written scene. If the author wanted to show that Egwene underestimated Perrin's abilities, the balefire scene was enough. While I don't particularly like Egwene, she was never portrayed as dumb. Binding Perrin in the middle of the battle to keep him safe? C'mon, Egwene would immediately move him somewhere or entirely out of TR (or she would try and fail, taking into account Perrin's mastery). But doing what she did is so stupid that I can't look at it differently than a bad writing idea (something that should have been deleted in editing) and forget about it when thinking about Egwene. Brandon had to make a statement that Egwene wanted in fact to keep Perrin safe, because the scene was so ridiculous and confusing.

 

I would disagree. Egwene, as demonstrated in ToM, has become rather arrogant to a degree. She's always been so (note in tSR when she thinks she's a match for Rand) but it's especially pronounced in ToM, and logically so; she's just achieved a great triumph as Amyrlin.

 

As such, I have no problem with the idea that she'd run into Perrin and immediately assume that he had no idea what he was doing and restrain him. The exact same thing happens with Gawyn; she assumes she's more knowledgeable when in fact she's not and ends up making a terrible decision as a result.

 

In my eyes, her attempt to tie up Perrin doesn't serve to show how much more skilled he currently is in TAR (balefire demonstrates that well) but rather, how Egwene has become more arrogant; this is corroborated by her actions re: Gawyn earlier in the book. She thinks she knows best and acts on it immediately without including Perrin at all.

 

To me, it's much like Rand when he was slipping into the Dark Side; he assumed he knew what was best to the detriment of others, and things ended badly. Egwene's going through the same phase at the moment; hopefully the events of ToM have snapped her out of it.

 

First, Brandon said she was going to move him, so you don't know how "terrible" the decision was because we never saw the whole plan. The reason you felt bad about the situation is because you are biased. And here's another example:

 

Egwene is not cold and demanding in her private life, she erged Nynaeve call her mother in private because Nynaeve needed to get used to it. And Nynaeve AGREES with that whole situation. Egwene didn't demand anything of Nyn, she talked her into it by relating the situation to one Nyn could understand.

 

And she specifically says the "mother" in private could be temporary once Nynaeve stops slipping up in public.

 

I've quoted all this before, search for it.

 

As for the testing, yes Egwene should have not involved herself at all, but once she did, and found the other Aes Sedai being hard on Nynaeve, she most certainly could do nothing relatively easier. And Nynaeve certainly wouldn't have wanted her too.

Edited by Kael Pyralis
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Egwene is not cold and demanding in her private life, she erged Nynaeve call her mother in private because Nynaeve needed to get used to it. And Nynaeve AGREES with that whole situation. Egwene didn't demand anything of Nyn, she talked her into it by relating the situation to one Nyn could understand.

Yeah right, she's all warm and cuddly. And that's why her supposed "friends" (like Nynaeve) or lover (Gawyn) feel so damn good in her company...

 

Jesus Christ, Kael accusing someone of bias. Kettle, meet pot. Pot, kettle.

:biggrin:

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