Mafia Grievances

[LilyElizabeth]

I always use meta to case other players. It's how I get a feel for their play each game. By Red's definition I should quit playing. Maybe I will take another long break at that.

 

Red, I get how you are frustrated that you keep getting attacked over your playstyle. So do I, and I'm also sick of it. But I don't like the way you've attacked mine here, either. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

[Red2111]

lily you back yorus up with an actual case and posts. i'm talkign abotu when a person goes

 

"Reds lurking, this isn't normal so she must be scum" and leaves it at that. no game quotes, no nothing to back it up.

 

 

or, what really miffed me in this case "Red's playing too much like herself, she must be scum since she knows her meta and is pruposefully playing like she normally does" and leaves it at that

 

who else am i supposed to play like and how else am i supposed to play if people are gonna start pushing a lynch or setting up a lynch off that! how am i suppose to defend against that?! you thorw that at a perosn, their damned if they respond because either their shrugging it off (which is scummy) or their getting defensive (whcih is also scummy) and damned if they don't respond (whcih just adds credability to the claim cause it appears that their trying to make sure no one brings it up again).

 

 

 

liek i said, theres a BIG difference between using meta as the ONLY reason to lycnha perosn and using Meta to determine if a perosn needs to be cased and to pressur them with in game evidence.

 

you use Meta, as do al of usl; but you dont use it as the only thing to back up why you think a person is scummy or as the only reason you call a person scummy. it when meta is used for the only reason your calling a person scummy and the person is frankly too lazy to even attempt a case that i take issue with.

[Red2111]

people want to bitch abotu my WoTs ... fine

 

people want to complain that my play style is too aggresive and abrasive and is more anti-town than town ... thats your opinion.

 

you use meta to get suspicous about me and then co back and analyze my posts more carefully ... great

 

 

but i draw the line at trying to set me up to look defensive by claiming i'm scummy because i'm playing too much like myself or because i've decided to play different than i used to because your ass is too lazy to go present a true case to try and get me lynched or becuase its the only way you can take me on because your afraid i'll argue circles around you.

 

 

what your doing here is saying "OMG Red is a good enough player that she has no scum tells so i should just always lynch her JIC" its crappy lazy play and i refuse to play with a person liek that. a mafia game takes work, relying on the finder will bite you in butt; get off your lazy ass and go make a case becuase learning how to make a good believable case whether scum or town is how you play the damned game.

 

 

theres outstandingly GREAT players here on DM; ones that can run circles aroudn me and ones i ALWAYS find scummy because of theri playstyle. but instead of just saying, "oh their playing like themselves, i shoudl lead a lycnh on them" i pay attention to what they post, how they post and how thei interact and wait to see if their actiosn in game are more anti-town than town. if their more anti-town, i quote the part i think is anti-town and build off of that.

 

 

sure, meta is useful, but its not a tool you shoudl rely on or use the most or be the major thing behind wanting to lynch a person.

[Basel Gill]

I think Red has a valid point here. I've noticed in some of the recent games that the cases on her have relied a lot on meta. I've used meta myself against her on at least one occasion, but I've worked in bits from the actual game I have been using. But what it all boils down to in the end is this: Mafia is a game. It is meant to be fun. Clearly, Red is no longer having fun as a Mafia player. If she isn't enjoying herself, then she is totally justified in quitting the game.

 

@Red: I think you are a cool person. I've enjoyed the games I have been in that you've ran, and I think your scenes are awesome. But if you aren't having fun anymore with Mafia, then it's probably best for your emotional well-being to back off from the game like you are doing. You mentioned that you wanted to avoid saying some non-PG13 things, it may be time to take a deep breath and relax, because you seem on the verge of saying things you will regret later, and maybe burning a few bridges in the process. I've been there. And when I have been this aggravated with Mafia in the past, you have been a great deal of help for me in dealing with it before I went totally ballistic. If you decide to come back sometime, can I suggest you take the time to examine your own meta first? Look for the holes in your normal playstyle, see what everyone has been criticizing and don't let that show up so much. Whatever you choose to do in the long run, I wish you the best.

[LilyElizabeth]

*Snuggles her bonded brother* Very well said!

[Nolder]

Alright I skimmed the conversation so I am aware of what is going on and I'm going to comment in a way I hope wont be considered communicating outside the game since I am going to make this 1 post in both the game and the grievances thread.

 

Red I'm not going to pretend I don't understand where Arez was coming from. You have crafted a unique meta for yourself unlike what most players have. Whether you mean to or not you are bound to not fit it perfectly every game by it's very nature. It takes a lot of work to keep "acting like Red". There could be a game you just don't have a lot of time to post and people will cry meta and call for a lynch. It's just the nature of the game and people. I'm not sure if you just have a lot going on or you were tired or what but I think you overreacted to Arez and the situation. Arez was one player and he may have been very in your face (I'll get to that in a second) but it's your job as a mafia player to not lose your cool under pressure. Your stated reason for quitting was that you are tired of people lynching you for meta but that didn't happen. You had an argument with one person and as frustrating as that may have been you've got to look at the bigger picture and realize that until you quit most people were saying they thought you were town. Or just as many people. I'm not going to fact check those statements but my point is we weren't in a day phase and you weren't lynched. I know mafia can be frustrating when someone really gets on your case and it seems like they are absolutely dead wrong but you can't win by letting people bully you around. I respect your decision to leave the game however and I hope you'll consider playing again soon after you cool down.

 

Arez I am still in a game with you so there isn't much I can say. The only thing I feel that really needs to be commented on is the fact that you kept heckling Red after she said she was leaving the game. You shouldn't have done that, it was kind of rude. Even if she was in fact faking it you could have just called her on it later after it became clear. There was no reason to continue pestering her and I hope you'll remember that for the future.

 

Pre post edit: I plan on commenting further here when I am out of the game so feel free to reply to this but I wont be able to respond until I'm dead or the game is over.

[Red2111]

if i was faking my in game reaction then i woudln't be ranting here or have dropped the games i was signed up for or be taking a break from playing. i don't fake crap liek that. i may emo melt down in a game, but if i use it as a manipulation to try and get people from suspecting me i keep it in the game thread. the only time i take it out of the game thread it puts me over my boiling point, which this did.

 

as to "try to act liek red" there is trying about it. regaurdless of alignement i tend to play the game the same, i make cases, i post WoTs, i spam a little, i beat the grass and i lead lynches. i'm vocal and proud of it. soemtimes there are slight variations and depending onhow buisy i am determines how much effort i give to the games. it has nothign to do with keeping up apperances. i only knwo one way how to play, and thats the agressive, obnoxious, bulldogging style you guys know me by. and tbh, its a style i love to play under.

 

and in this game yes a lynch wasn't being lead against me purely on meta, as i said in game the push by Arez against me based souly on "Red is acting like Red" was the last straw, it broke my want to continue to playing; because it went from players wanting to lynch me due to a playstyle change to, imo, now trying to lynch me because i'm a good player.

 

i don't mind people using Meta as a reason to case me, but back it up with IN GAME evidence. otherwise it feels like your just aiming to get me lynched because you either don't like me/my playstyle or feel i'm too big of a threat that i have to go.

 

yeah i probably did over react, and yes i realize it was only 2 people saying this but i've played about 5 or so games since comming off hiatus 3 of those now i've had someone either lead a case agaisnt me or start one using Meta as their only evidence. 2 of them i was lynched because of it, the 3rdone i quit because i knew i couldn't keep it civil.

 

to Arez's defense on your points Nol, i shoudlnt' have continued posting either after askign to be replaced. so i'm as much at fault on that as he is. i just needed to get it off my chest, forgot abotu this threa at the time and thought it best not to take the discussion to PM cause given how mad i was and still am over it.

 

 

edit - to correct the game numbers. the 5 games was from before when i originally took a break lat last year.

[Arez Al'Loke]

I don't want to make this a personal issue. So I'm gonna keep this short.

 

FIrst of all Red, I didn't know other people had lynched you because of meta in other games that frequently. Secondly, I'd like to mention that I didn't hint or plan in any way to lynch you just because of "meta".

I tried to plant some sucpicion on you so that if you tried to case me later in the game, I could try and use that to Omgus you with. Didn't really work as I had hoped it would =P

 

You have to understand that from my perspective, I viewed everything as part of the game until you started leaving queue's in other games.

if i was faking my in game reaction then i woudln't be ranting here or have dropped the games i was signed up for or be taking a break from playing. i don't fake crap liek that. i may emo melt down in a game, but if i use it as a manipulation to try and get people from suspecting me i keep it in the game thread. the only time i take it out of the game thread it puts me over my boiling point, which this did.

 

Recently I was in a game where people DID fake crap like that. And if you don't think I know the feeling of getting lynched because of meta, then you're dead wrong. In atleast 3 of my games people have told me to suit myself for getting lynched, because my "meta" is very scummy and in one game some people bluntly said that I sucked at playing (although that was part of my "plan"). Infact, every game I get lynched, it's because of my meta.

 

And lastly, I'd like to say that I didn't enjoy your personal attacks on my integrity at all. I was trying to keep it as friendly and civil as possible.

 

*edit* I'd like to say I'm sorry aswell, now that I know you weren't using it as a tactic, I feel the need to appologize for pushing the "meta" thing more than needed.

[Red2111]

1st thing Arez, i'm sorry that i blew up on you like that, it was less that it was you and more of a compound of things. i've been gone after for alot of things, but because i was playing like myself was just the last straw. i also saw the insinuation of me faking a reaction like this as a personal attack on my reputation, whcih only made me that much more mad tbh.

 

2nd - i've already said plenty on how i precieved your "set up" so to say more will just be beating a dead horse. suffice to say it most certaintly did not come off that way.

 

3rd - i'm not claiming that you or anyone else doesn't get lynched only because of meta, i'm just saying, personally, i'm fed up of players who only use meta as their reason for lycnhing a person and never do case work (ie: using in game quotes to make a direct case agaisnt a person). just as much as i'm fed up with people who sign up for games just to go inactive all the time.

[Verbal32]

I love lamp.

[Gabriel Kross]

lamp no love you back, it told me last night

[Barmacral]

Fun fact - the alt accounts were originally created because people were sick of meta-gaming and big game hunting (always killing the biggest names first just in case)

[Gabriel Kross]

Fun fact2 - Barm plays mafia I just found this out last night.

[Nolder]

So Barm who's your alt?

 

Edit: There'd be almost no point in me having an alt

I talk too weird to hide who I am

[peacesells]

You know what I have a big problem with..is all the friggin EMO that's going around here. In at least 4 different games lately I've seen someone completely lose it. I am completely perplexed at this phenomena. Is there something in the DM water?

[peacesells]

Oh..and another thing that is bugging me. People posting in threads after they are dead. I am so close to policy voting 1 of them in every game we share from now on.

[alannalynn]

I've played in a few alt games before. Other than it being inconvenient to log in/out of your DM account to post, the alts make for a very interesting game because you don't know who anyone is. It also gives you a chance to try out new techniques/playstyles and even change up your game altogether. Yay for no meta...

 

The emo-melts are bothering me too. I say policy-lynch the whiners.

[Basel Gill]

Oh..and another thing that is bugging me. People posting in threads after they are dead. I am so close to policy voting 1 of them in every game we share from now on.

 

This is starting to bug me too. Said person would have one chance in my games, and then would not be allowed back in unless they show signs of stopping this in all games they are in.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I've had emo melt downs but I was quite new at the game at the time, and I had some lovely help in learning that Mafia is just a game etc. In the BT we do try and make sure new players are given extra support to try and stop this baptism of fire and we even have a top tips PM we send to them that explains the basics, we also encourage them to keep in touch with the Mod if they feel things are getting too much, so they have someone they can scream at if nothing else lol.

 

Of course with players that have been playing for a while, it can get a little tired that they can't count to ten and then either just stop posting for a while (I have done this) or give back as good as they get.

 

Dead people posting does my head in. Seriously. We should have a Yellow and Red card system or something.

[Gabriel Kross]

the dead posting thing can be solved by making a probation list, if your rules state 1 bah post and they break the rule, they go on the list and sit out the next five games or something, tbh I havent seen this here but I've skipped a few games here lately

[Nolder]

Depends what they are saying and how distracting they are being IMO

 

As long as the game isn't being noticeably slowed down and the person isn't talking about game related things it's fine with me if they wanna chat a bit in my games

Just don't go overboard

[Gabriel Kross]

of course it be up to the mod's personal preference as to whether to enact said option if it were used

[Verbal32]

So Barm who's your alt?

 

Edit: There'd be almost no point in me having an alt

I talk too weird to hide who I am

 

We don't actually have "personal" alts....just a bunch of mafia alts with Forsaken names to play with.

[Nolder]

So Barm who's your alt?

 

Edit: There'd be almost no point in me having an alt

I talk too weird to hide who I am

 

We don't actually have "personal" alts....just a bunch of mafia alts with Forsaken names to play with.

13 doesn't seem like enough alts imo

[JenLenaMom]

So Barm who's your alt?

 

Edit: There'd be almost no point in me having an alt

I talk too weird to hide who I am

 

We don't actually have "personal" alts....just a bunch of mafia alts with Forsaken names to play with.

13 doesn't seem like enough alts imo

 

But there's more than 13. There's Ishmael and his reincarnation, etc. There's all the fake names they use while masquerading as humans, etc.

Then if you really need a bunch you start with the regular characters like Rand, Elayne etc. The alts just STARTED as the forsaken.