Tirck or Treat?

[Sharaman]

The last we see of Graendal, she is being given a pep talk by Shaidar.

He says that somebody else has been entrusted with the task of doing Rand (paraphrasing) when G tries to get off the hook by offering to do something about Rand.

 

Is that somebody Shaidar mentioned, Cyndane?

Or is it Moridin, using Cyndane?

 

There is a difference although Moridin controls Cyndane.

Moridin has the link and might not be terribly enthusiastic about killing Rand if push comes to shove though he would certainly be interested in trapping Rand.

He's also a powerful Dreamer and very capable of setting up the scene and torturing Cyndi in order to get a reaction out of Rand.

 

Cyndane on the other hand, is unpredictable. She loved LTT (and found Rand interesting in himself) and thenn hated him. She wanted to do terminal harm to him in TFoH and also in her PoV in WH. Incidentally Moridin was aware of that, going by the Ansaline tea-party in KoD, where he refused to let her have a go at Rand for fear that she would torture him to death.

 

Cyndane is also a very powerful Dreamer with a twisted imagination. She's capable of doing a lot of stuff in TAR and in her dreams.

She could have faked her distress in the whole scene.

 

Of course, neither Cyndane nor Moridin may be the mysterious personage entrusted with the task - but then we're running short of Chosen. Moggy? Demandred ? Or Taim ?

[OptimusPrime]

I will refrain from commenting on Taim.

 

For now I think Lanfear is the one Shaidar was speaking of. I dont think we've ever heard Shaidar mention Moridin?? Which makes me think Moridin is not a normal Chosen, as in, he is on par with Shaidar, so Shaidar wouldnt give anything away about Moridin any more than he would the Dark One.

[clu7ch]

i honestly believe her in her plea for help. I think it's a plot element, to show the other side of forsaken life. Kind of like how BS showed us Rand's coping mechanisms, his reversal, now we get Lanfear's vulnerability, which is generally hidden beneath ego.

[yoniy0]

You know, about that 'desire' thingy at the end, do you think Rand knows his gals wouldn't appreciate a new addition to the harem? The way they accepted each other, he might think they'd welcome her

[Sharaman]

Cyndi is clearly a one-man woman. She seems to have problems about LTT not being a one-woman man and she could probably eat both Elayne and Avi alive and turn Min into a paperweight.

[ineedfourberfs]

I'm not sure if this is a trap or not, but I did have a thought the other day.

 

Rand and Moridin = Linked

 

Cyndane = trapped in Moridin's MINDTRAP

 

 

Descriptions of the scene include the phrase "A depression not unlike the cup of a skull" or some such like, and lots of references to bones and fleshy walls with bones it etc.

 

 

I think, through the link to Moridin, Rand has stumbled into M's head, and has found Lanfear, or at least the part of Lanfear held by the mindtrap.

 

Wether this is intentional or not, not sure of. But there are my crazy 2c.

[SheaththeSword]

I'm not sure if this is a trap or not, but I did have a thought the other day.

 

Rand and Moridin = Linked

 

Cyndane = trapped in Moridin's MINDTRAP

 

 

Descriptions of the scene include the phrase "A depression not unlike the cup of a skull" or some such like, and lots of references to bones and fleshy walls with bones it etc.

 

 

I think, through the link to Moridin, Rand has stumbled into M's head, and has found Lanfear, or at least the part of Lanfear held by the mindtrap.

 

Wether this is intentional or not, not sure of. But there are my crazy 2c.

What if Cyndi can somehow exploit this new, albeit very extended, mental link to Rand? Even just by further guilt trips such as this one, if commanded by moridin, perhaps she could do it enough provoke a reaction. Especially now that Rand is more in tune with his loving, forgiving side.

 

Could Rand find a way to influence Cyndi's mind? I mean he already affects moridin, though without knowing it.

[Pug]

I'm not sure if this is a trap or not, but I did have a thought the other day.

 

Rand and Moridin = Linked

 

Cyndane = trapped in Moridin's MINDTRAP

 

 

Descriptions of the scene include the phrase "A depression not unlike the cup of a skull" or some such like, and lots of references to bones and fleshy walls with bones it etc.

 

 

I think, through the link to Moridin, Rand has stumbled into M's head, and has found Lanfear, or at least the part of Lanfear held by the mindtrap.

 

Wether this is intentional or not, not sure of. But there are my crazy 2c.

 

 

 

I quite like this. Maybe somehow Rand will free her and she'll tell him about how the bore was created so she doesn't owe him anything.

[Southpaw89]

I don't think Shadar Hairan has much authority over what Moridin does. Moridin is Nae'blis so I think his authority rules over all. Shadar Hairan probably goes on his rape and pep talk missions under orders from Moridin and the DO. So if Graendal convo with Shadar Hairan is about Cyndanes mission to go after Rand, it's probably under the knowledge that Moridin is in control

[FarShainMael]

I suppose Rand is still warding his dreams, so if the wards are still holding, it does seem more likely that this trip was initiated by Rand, like the similar dream-visit to Moridin in TGS15.

 

Altternatively, as a way of getting past those wards, perhaps Moridin is using Rand's emotions to draw Rand to him via Cyndane.

[Rufae]

My feeling is that Cynd/Lanfear will be turned back to the Light by Rand. It is a feeling I have had since Book 2 when we first run into her. As far we know, Lanfear wa the only Forsaken who went to the DO out of Love... Unrequited Love but still love. This might make her more vulnerable to being returned to the Light.

[Suttree]

My feeling is that Cynd/Lanfear will be turned back to the Light by Rand. It is a feeling I have had since Book 2 when we first run into her. As far we know, Lanfear wa the only Forsaken who went to the DO out of Love... Unrequited Love but still love. This might make her more vulnerable to being returned to the Light.

 

Love of what? Self and power?

TSR, Ch. 9

 

You were mine long before that pale-haired milksop stole you. Before she ever saw you. You loved me!”

 

“And you loved power!” For a moment he felt dazed. The words sounded true — he knew they were true — but where had they come from?

 

Selene — Lanfear — seemed as startled as he, but she recovered quickly.

 

Notice Lanfear doesn't even bother to deny it. She is just surprised he remembered correctly.

[Luckers]

I suppose Rand is still warding his dreams, so if the wards are still holding, it does seem more likely that this trip was initiated by Rand, like the similar dream-visit to Moridin in TGS15.

 

Altternatively, as a way of getting past those wards, perhaps Moridin is using Rand's emotions to draw Rand to him via Cyndane.

 

Well, Lanfear did tell Rand that she could get through his wardings if she wanted too. I always took it as a lie, but she did say it.

[FarShainMael]

I suppose Rand is still warding his dreams, so if the wards are still holding, it does seem more likely that this trip was initiated by Rand, like the similar dream-visit to Moridin in TGS15.

 

Altternatively, as a way of getting past those wards, perhaps Moridin is using Rand's emotions to draw Rand to him via Cyndane.

 

Well, Lanfear did tell Rand that she could get through his wardings if she wanted too. I always took it as a lie, but she did say it.

 

So she did.. If she wasn't lying, it may have been true at the time, Rand's strength in the OP was not yet fully developed. But if she could then and still can, I suspect that because of the mindtrap she would need Moridin's consent at the least if not his actual command.. which puts the ball firmly back in Moridin's court, of course.

[lilltempest]

I'm not sure if this is a trap or not, but I did have a thought the other day.

 

Rand and Moridin = Linked

 

Cyndane = trapped in Moridin's MINDTRAP

 

 

Descriptions of the scene include the phrase "A depression not unlike the cup of a skull" or some such like, and lots of references to bones and fleshy walls with bones it etc.

 

 

I think, through the link to Moridin, Rand has stumbled into M's head, and has found Lanfear, or at least the part of Lanfear held by the mindtrap.

 

Wether this is intentional or not, not sure of. But there are my crazy 2c.

 

I like this idea a lot.

 

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if aMoL begins with Rand slipping into a coma because he gets trapped in TAR (or perhaps some part of TAR that we have yet to see, a part that the know-it-all Wise Ones aren't even aware of but that Cyndane/Lanfear knows and masters). With him trapped, his body would start dying and all would appear lost. Plus, then Egwene could get her way and the seals wouldn't be broken. Or maybe they'd fall apart anyway. Then we go through the whole book with Rand dead or dying until the end when he somehow gets rescued from this part of TAR (probably by miss know-it-all herself) or gets "killed" so he can return as a Hero of the Horn. Something like that.

[lordofsoup]

So Rand while strolling through moridin's head bumped into the only bit of Lanfear, that is actually a decent person?

[Sharaman]

She's a sorry person who's being tortured and wants to be rescued if you reckon it's an honest dream - how does that make her decent?

[DemandredFO]

I think the only chosen that has a chance of turning back is Ishamael because he turned for logic not selfish reasons. I just hope Lanfear and Moghedien are killed in actual fights first since I really don't want them to die because Moridin crushed their mindtraps.

[Terez]

I think it more likely that Demandred was the one given the privilege of killing Rand. (See the TGS prologue.)

[Luckers]

i honestly believe her in her plea for help. I think it's a plot element, to show the other side of forsaken life. Kind of like how BS showed us Rand's coping mechanisms, his reversal, now we get Lanfear's vulnerability, which is generally hidden beneath ego.

 

Then why such a dramatic change from her thoughts in WH to her position now. She'd been living as 'Last Chance' and all that implied for months by that stage, and seem more or less content in her hatred of Rand. Certainly she didn't try to plead with him, or anyone. And later she begs Moridin to let her have him, and he says she'd kill him.

 

Nah. It be a trap.

[dwn]

i honestly believe her in her plea for help. I think it's a plot element, to show the other side of forsaken life. Kind of like how BS showed us Rand's coping mechanisms, his reversal, now we get Lanfear's vulnerability, which is generally hidden beneath ego.

 

Then why such a dramatic change from her thoughts in WH to her position now. She'd been living as 'Last Chance' and all that implied for months by that stage, and seem more or less content in her hatred of Rand. Certainly she didn't try to plead with him, or anyone. And later she begs Moridin to let her have him, and he says she'd kill him.

 

Nah. It be a trap.

 

Well, in ToM we did hear an interesting bit of introspection from Graendal about the long, painful process of turning to the Shadow. Flipping that on its head, turning away from the Shadow is as likely to be a series of unpleasant realizations as a sudden epiphany.

 

Lanfear was defined by power: she was tall, extremely beautiful, the strongest female channeller, chose her own name, etc. Losing all that must have shaken Lanfear to her core--and she was never the poster child for stability. Add on a few months as Moridin's pet and it's hardly a stretch to think she might have done some soul searching.

 

I tend to think it's both sincere and a trap. Cyndane wants redemption (or at least escape), Moridin and/or Shaidar Haran know it, and that makes her the perfect bait for Rand with his shiny new LTT outlook.

 

-- dwn