Effects on the body in TAR

[spoke]

So we know that what happens to the body in TAR effects you in real life - example Verin's scar, dying in the dream, you don't wake up, etc... So this begs the question, what if two individuals, got together in TAR, and had sex, could the woman end up being pregnant?

 

If so, could this be what causes the strangeness in Avienda's babies?

[Leyrann]

Egwene thinks it's possible (LoC, after getting caught in Gawyn's dream, which she was happy it was not TAR).

[Superhal]

I always assumed that was a Caesarian section, but there are weirder theories around here.

[ravenfier]

I Have been pondering this for a while my self. Especially now that there really no time for some of the "birth" related visions, ect. to happen (ie both Nyn's and Avi's) and I feel that the answer would be yes.

 

this comes from multiple things that have been stated through the books, like Verin's scar and the Ripped out episode come to mind right away. But this could only happen between a person who has a living body and some one who was either bound to the wheel(ie a HoH) or in TAR in the flesh. This because things that you dream up in TaR cant be brought out, I wont go graphic there but you get my point.

 

The reasoning for one partner is if it didn't don't you think B and G might have had kids there? they were together there as they were together when they were alive.

 

The wired thing of Avi's kids is that they would be born as a set of 4, and all have the ability to channel, at least that has been my assumption from the start. though it is looking more likey that she does conceive them In TAR after Rand had died, though by the looks of it this is how Lan and Nyn get their child, Referring to Min vision.

[jahnfriederik]

Verin's scar sounds like a mistake, frankly. Just doesn't fit in with a lot of other things to do with the World of Dreams that suggest that it's primarily a spiritual and not physical way to travel.

[randsc]

I'm not sure the B & G reasoning follows. As far as we know, B & G have never had children in the real world, either. So the fact that they don't in TAR may not mean anything at all.

[ravenfier]

That is true, but then we haven't heard that they didn't either. Though maybe the reason why they don't in the real world is that they tend to die young, though the times when she is forced to grow old were boring, She does though have a fondness for children.

 

also, remember when Eggy was teaching the AS in TaR and the AS steped into the nightmare? they all had cuts, brusies and sores that they got from the nightmare. one even had her long hair shortend to a burnt fizz, perrin waking up with blood on him from the mad who was skined whole, the splinter that was embeded in someones thumb, i think that was Rand. So the Verin scar is not some mistake.

[randsc]

No, the Verin scar wasn't a mistake.

 

Birgitte's arrow, on the other hand, doen't fit.

[jahnfriederik]

No, the Verin scar wasn't a mistake.

 

Birgitte's arrow, on the other hand, doen't fit.

No I didn't mean that it was RJ's mistake, I just meant it was a strange idea conceptually. I mean it's scary and all and very early on in the series, when Rand was being visited by dreams with Ba'alzamon (but actually Ishmael) - and forgive me if this is a little off, I haven't read the early books in a while - I think there were also physical correspondences.

 

But it can't logically be congruent. E.g. you die of balefire, does your body disappear in real (well, "real") life? Or if, in a nightmare, you die in a pool of lava, does your family find your body burnt to a crisp? It makes (some) sense for your body to die when your mind thinks it's dead; even for you to feel pain when your brain does it, but physical traces - and only for minor injuries? It's odd.

[Superhal]

There's two theories:

 

1. In books 1-6, the rules of the universe haven't been set yet, and they're malleable depending on plot needs. For example, there's no mention of the black threads that Rand used to defeat Forsaken after book 4, however, since he didn't have LTT to help him, he needed an "easy" way to defeat far more experienced channelers.

 

2. Because of Birgette's arrow (but not her clothes,) perhaps TAR sperm can cause a real pregnancy. But, the arrow was torn from TAR also before book 6.

[rand4747]

There are other things that have made it out of TAR before, like thorns stuck in hands, and there is other stuff I cant quite remember aswell. Somehow some stuff gets out even though the person is just dreaming.

[Seeker Matt]

If the two are both dreamwalkers or there physically perhaps.

 

(helpful, repetitive quota filled.)

[mb]

Have not voted.

 

I imagine that pregnancies caused in Telaranrhiod could be possible. As far as I am aware, neither author commented about it.

 

Though I doubt of that being the oddness. Aviendha I hope to become pregnant by Rand's body; not the soul's body (or anybody else's body).

From reading Encyclopaedia's Towers of Midnight pages; I take that the oddness would be that all 4 would channel.

 

Birth, I imagine she would need to be there in the flesh; regardless of the pregnancy being caused in Telaranrhiod or in waking world.

[Ananta]

Have not voted.

 

I imagine that pregnancies caused in Telaranrhiod could be possible. As far as I am aware, neither author commented about it.

 

Though I doubt of that being the oddness. Aviendha I hope to become pregnant by Rand's body; not the soul's body (or anybody else's body).

From reading Encyclopaedia's Towers of Midnight pages; I take that the oddness would be that all 4 would channel.

 

Birth, I imagine she would need to be there in the flesh; regardless of the pregnancy being caused in Telaranrhiod or in waking world.

 

The oddness is that all 4 are constantly holding onto OP. They never let go of it. They channel better than anyone else and they are stronger than anyone else. (ok not sure about that last part... They were said to have been very strong in power, so I'd scale them at Nynaeve strenght or higher.)

[hazelkrs1]

I'll be honest I voted before I read the first post, so that being said... I would prob say its possible because that's an easy way to explain the strangesness of the babes. Incidentally, I thought the rule about your environment in TAR had more to do with not being able to effect the environment in the real world, not so much about bringing stuff out. Seems the arrow shows stuff can be brought out, just like the dreamspike can be taken in.