What exactly did Demandred do?

[True Source Creator]

This is probably a RAFO thing, right? I'm curious, but maybe I shouldn't spoil myself. At the end of Lord of Chaos, he comes to Shayul Ghul and asks the Dark One if he's done well, and the DO laughs. Has anyone else wondered this?

 

I'll just RAFO, but if it's already been revealed, you guys can talk about it, or if not, theorize on it.

[aaron11]

I believe he found a body for Morradin and bodies for the 'gars

[Cybertrolloc]

He might have been involved in the kidnapping. He isn't involved more than the other Forsaken with the spoiler spoiler.

 

Still open to interpretation and one of the biggest mysteries remaining going into the last book.

[SylvanFox]

Hahahaha maybe aaron is right, and the DO was laughing because he had already decided how to distribute the bodies, and he was thinking how Demandred had picked just the perfect ones. Or maybe he was laughing at Demandred's face...

[sandoz12]

I am thinking he had something/a lot to do with Masema. And Masema started causing a lot of trouble during this period.

 

I also think it's possible that he has Taim working as proxy for him. If so then part of what he had done was set up the black tower to be a tool for the dark side.

[Southpaw89]

I brought up the topic of that with Brandon and then a conversation began with others about how someone may have been balefiring a lot to destroy the pattern and there's a theory saying it's been Demandred doing it and Brandon just smiled and said that was an interesting theory. So possibly that

[Suttree]

LoC Prologue, The DO asks Demandred

 

 

'WOULD YOU UNLEASH THE BALEFIRE IN MY SERVICE'.

 

KoD, Chapter 5

 

She had just reached Therava's arrival with Galina when everything in front of her eyes rippled. She rippled! It was not imagination. Meira's blue eyes widened as far as they could go; she had felt it, too. Again everything rippled, including herself, harder than before. In shock, Faile stood up straight and let go of her robe. A third time the world rippled, harder still, and as it passed through her. she felt as if she might blow away in a breeze, or simply dissipate in a mist.

 

KoD, Chapter 26

Suddenly, everything seemed to ripple in Perrin's sight. He felt himself ripple. Breane gave a cry and dropped the pitcher. The world rippled again, and Berelain clutched his arm. Tylee's hand seemed frozen in that odd gesture, thumb and forefinger forming a crescent. Everything rippled for a third time, and Perrin felt as if he were made of fog, as if the world were fog with a high wind coming.

 

We also have side effects of the True Power described by Graendal:

 

ToM Prolouge

The Great Lord's essence forced the Pattern, straining it and leaving it scarred. Even something the Creator had designed to be eternal could be unraveled using the Dark One's energies.

[NitroS]

my biggest issue with the 6th book is how robert jordan could make so many references to a near smile between mazrim taim and demandred and then not be purposly making a red herring and then comes out and deny's any link between them 2. Why force something that was mentioned any time one of those characters were on screen in the 6th book and then not have a reason for it?if after i read the final book everything isnt explained about demandred and taim to explain everything that happened in book 6 im just going to assume that they were meant to be the same and too many people worked it out or RJ changed his mind so he went another way with the character and there proxies. I mean we have had 13 books there was plenty of room to bring in a proxy for demandred but we have been told that he hasnt even been on screen with the leading theory being king roedran, all i can say is a let down. Imagine how much better it would have been if RJ just RAFO every demandred/taim question so we were all leading up to the final book expecting them to be the same and then boom it is someone else? why let us down like that?

[Dakota]

my biggest issue with the 6th book is how robert jordan could make so many references to a near smile between mazrim taim and demandred and then not be purposly making a red herring and then comes out and deny's any link between them 2. Why force something that was mentioned any time one of those characters were on screen in the 6th book and then not have a reason for it?if after i read the final book everything isnt explained about demandred and taim to explain everything that happened in book 6 im just going to assume that they were meant to be the same and too many people worked it out or RJ changed his mind so he went another way with the character and there proxies. I mean we have had 13 books there was plenty of room to bring in a proxy for demandred but we have been told that he hasnt even been on screen with the leading theory being king roedran, all i can say is a let down. Imagine how much better it would have been if RJ just RAFO every demandred/taim question so we were all leading up to the final book expecting them to be the same and then boom it is someone else? why let us down like that?

 

Yeah, it seems that most people fall on one of two opinions on that whole matter. Either RJ was leaving a red herring, or as you suggested, he made it too obvious and changed his mind. Either or, all the 'Taim-Demandred' similarities do come across as very blunt and unsubtle, especially compared with several other suprises he's given the readers, such as Ingtar and Verin.

[Southpaw89]

he didn't change his mind. With the exception of physical looks and not knowing where Demandred has been, there aren't a ton of similarities. More differences between Taim and Demandred than similarities

[mbuehner]

he didn't change his mind. With the exception of physical looks and not knowing where Demandred has been, there aren't a ton of similarities. More differences between Taim and Demandred than similarities

 

"so called Aiel", "renegade Aiel", hatred of being honored by Rand, "Demandred first. First of all I rid myself of him, then Sammael". Not to reopen this argument for the billionth time, but there are similarities, and I dont think its fair to dismiss the possibility as though all the oddities werent, well, odd.

[Southpaw89]

well I dont' blame people for wondering but I don't see how people could still argue even after RJ confirmed they weren't the same person. I think there's a much better chance that Taim = Moridin (even though I dont' believe this either).

[OptimusPrime]

I believe he found a body for Morradin

 

This. He took Taim to Shayol Ghul, and the Dark One used Taims body to bring Ishamael back.

[nojnomad]

RJ never held the oath rod and he is a darkfriend or the darkone himself besides.

[Agitel]

It's RAFO. They never come out and directly state it, but it's easier to discuss and support with more info from the other books. It's something you witnessed in the book, though. I'll say that much.

[Ingtar Shinowa]

Either or, all the 'Taim-Demandred' similarities do come across as very blunt and unsubtle

 

RJ didn't know the meaning of subtle.

[Kal11]

I am a fan of the Demandred is off balefiring something either very important or on a mass scale myself. It makes the most sense of any theories I have read. If only he could find the time to balefire those hippy Tinkers.

[mb]

Demandred was on-screen once in this book.

 

 

About Robert Jordan, all his comments about this series have seemed accurate.

Thus, he was not a darkfriend nor the Dark One.

[True Source Creator]

I'm hoping it's something important. Demandred, of all the Forsaken, seems to be the one "hiding" the most...but maybe he's not really hiding. Honestly, if he was Taim or has something to do with Taim, then I'd have more respect for him because he'd actually be doing something. His mysterious atmosphere is interesting, but I hope it pays off.

[NitroS]

he didn't change his mind. With the exception of physical looks and not knowing where Demandred has been, there aren't a ton of similarities. More differences between Taim and Demandred than similarities

 

you dont know whether he changed his mind or not your just saying what you want him to believe. List some of these differences from before he announced that taim in not demandred, so you have LOC and COS to list the many differences that you see between the 2.

[NitroS]

my biggest issue with the 6th book is how robert jordan could make so many references to a near smile between mazrim taim and demandred and then not be purposly making a red herring and then comes out and deny's any link between them 2. Why force something that was mentioned any time one of those characters were on screen in the 6th book and then not have a reason for it?if after i read the final book everything isnt explained about demandred and taim to explain everything that happened in book 6 im just going to assume that they were meant to be the same and too many people worked it out or RJ changed his mind so he went another way with the character and there proxies. I mean we have had 13 books there was plenty of room to bring in a proxy for demandred but we have been told that he hasnt even been on screen with the leading theory being king roedran, all i can say is a let down. Imagine how much better it would have been if RJ just RAFO every demandred/taim question so we were all leading up to the final book expecting them to be the same and then boom it is someone else? why let us down like that?

 

Yeah, it seems that most people fall on one of two opinions on that whole matter. Either RJ was leaving a red herring, or as you suggested, he made it too obvious and changed his mind. Either or, all the 'Taim-Demandred' similarities do come across as very blunt and unsubtle, especially compared with several other suprises he's given the readers, such as Ingtar and Verin.

yep, the problem with the red herring though is why make a red herring then come back on it, that destroys the whole point of it. Although he was probably just as obvious with who rahvin was impersonating.

[Suttree]

you dont know whether he changed his mind or not

 

Unless you choose to call RJ a liar, he didn't change his mind. There are multiple quotes expressing his surprise on this topic.

[NitroS]

lets be honest if u are suprised that someone made the connection that taim could be demandred you would have to have some sort of mental disability. Near smile mentioned within a chapters of each other several times, Let the lord of chaos rule quote which was only made by 2 people in that book, mazrim taim was just a little weaker then Rand just like demandred was to lews therin and your saying that the person that wrote these books couldnt make the connection in anyway? u cant be serious........

 

robert jordan also admitted that at one stage he did try to change things but he found out quickly that with so many theories floating around its pointless to try to dodge them.

[Southpaw89]

He never said he tried to change things. He said that he once thought about if he should or not based on seeing everyones theories but thought that he would never be able to please everyone so he's kept it on track of what HE wanted. I guarantee he never planned on Taim = Demandred. They were huge red herrings and that's it.

[Mr Ares]

lets be honest if u are suprised that someone made the connection that taim could be demandred you would have to have some sort of mental disability. Near smile mentioned within a chapters of each other several times, Let the lord of chaos rule quote which was only made by 2 people in that book, mazrim taim was just a little weaker then Rand just like demandred was to lews therin and your saying that the person that wrote these books couldnt make the connection in anyway? u cant be serious........

Bear in mind, RJ wasn't looking at these things from the same perspective as us. He writes Taim (who never smiles) and Demandred (who also never smiles, but for a different reason) - and he might have written those chapters months apart. Because he has those reasons in mind, reasons we don't necessarily know on first meeting, he doesn't see them as being as similar as we do. Taim is a little weaker than Rand - fine, but so was Aginor. RJ presumably knew where these guys stood in relation to one another in the Power. Taim didn't say "let the Lord of Chaos rule" until KoD. All things considered, I don't think it's all that far out that he didn't notice some similarities, or at least didn't think people would read as much into them as they did.