The Forsaken

[Kal11]

If there is I want all of the guys who are using that PED called the True Power

 

The lack of proper testing procedures and policy is proof the player's got too much leverage in the last CBA. The Saa in the eyes is as dead a giveaway as the shape of Barry Bonds' head but Moridin gets away with it free as a bird (I also hear he uses a corked angreal, the shame). It is ruining the game I tell you. I miss the AoL days when you knew you everybody was on a level playing field.

[True Source Creator]

Ruthan, you scared me. I almost read your comment.

 

I need to be careful around these forums. I've been trying to wait until I'm deeper into the franchise to come around here again, but I've gotten so addicted recently and had no one else to vent my feelings of this series too as I don't know anyone else who's a fan.

 

[jwood01]

Ruthan, you scared me. I almost read your comment.

 

I need to be careful around these forums. I've been trying to wait until I'm deeper into the franchise to come around here again, but I've gotten so addicted recently and had no one else to vent my feelings of this series too as I don't know anyone else who's a fan.

 

 

Sorry TSC. I have now removed it so that you won't find out ;)

I tried to figure out how to do a spoiler box, but failed.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

you might want to check out the structured forum, TSC - i think it's much less spoilery, as the discussions go book by book.

[Jay Aldridge]

Lanfear is my favorite. She's hot ,vindictive,hot, not so much evil as power hungry,hot, and she would burn the DO if it would give her a leg up. Did I mention she is hot.

[True Source Creator]

you might want to check out the structured forum, TSC - i think it's much less spoilery, as the discussions go book by book.

Where is this? I didn't see it.

 

 

And yes, Jay, Lanfear is quite hot.

[sandoz12]

you might want to check out the structured forum, TSC - i think it's much less spoilery, as the discussions go book by book.

Where is this? I didn't see it.

 

 

And yes, Jay, Lanfear is quite hot.

On the General Wheel of Time Discussion main page (where all the threads are listed) there is a box just down from the top of the page that has a link to The Structured Wheel of Time Discussion page.

[True Source Creator]

From where I'm at in Knife of Dreams, I garner Semirhage is the next to die. That would make her one of only two female Forsaken to die so far. It's been all the guys who have been having their butts handed to them on a silver platter, except Demandred of course. Demandred is the only male Forsaken who has not yet died/been reincarnated. Only one female has so far (Lanfear). That was an interesting point that dawned on me in the conclusion (by other members) that the Forsaken are buffoons. The females seem to have this thing going where they're smart enough not to strike Rand...at least insofar as I've come. I do prefer the female Forsaken. There used to be more male Forsaken (8 to 5), but now the girls outweigh them 6 (counting Aran'gar) to 2.

[True Source Creator]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...is this really true? Someone posted a link to the WoT wiki for the Forsaken page and the description for Aginor listed him as the second strongest among the males to Ishamael? Surely Demandred is second, although there was debate on the page that he could be. I thought Aginor was one of the weaker ones. The page went on to say Moghedian was weakest of the females, but I thought it was Mesaana.

 

So what are the rankings by strength, for male and female Forsaken, at least in your opinion?

 

Mine:

 

 

Male

1. Ishamael/Moridin

2. Demandred

3. Aginor (according to the wiki link...I would have had him lower)

4. Rahvin

5. Sammael

6. Balthamel

7. Be'lal

8. Asmodean

 

Female

1. Lanfear

2. Graendal

3. Semirhage

4. Moghedian

5. Mesaana

[BKVMC]

Instead of ranking who i like best since i dont like any of the forsaken i ranked my top choice of who i think is the most wicked evil and i had to vote Semi that lady is psycho nuts scary.

[Ashaman_Axel]

I rank Sammael as my favorite Forsaken... Ishamael/Moridin comes 2nd after I really understood his character's motivation...

 

Sammael has been causing trouble since TDR... IIRC in books 4, 5, 6, 7 he was very active in the story and even after his death the Light was still cleaning up his mess until KoD...

[MasterAblar]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...is this really true? Someone posted a link to the WoT wiki for the Forsaken page and the description for Aginor listed him as the second strongest among the males to Ishamael? Surely Demandred is second, although there was debate on the page that he could be. I thought Aginor was one of the weaker ones. The page went on to say Moghedian was weakest of the females, but I thought it was Mesaana.

 

So what are the rankings by strength, for male and female Forsaken, at least in your opinion?

 

Mine:

 

 

Male

1. Ishamael/Moridin

2. Demandred

3. Aginor (according to the wiki link...I would have had him lower)

4. Rahvin

5. Sammael

6. Balthamel

7. Be'lal

8. Asmodean

 

Female

1. Lanfear

2. Graendal

3. Semirhage

4. Moghedian

5. Mesaana

 

Aginor is stated a couple times in the books to be second only to Ishamael in terms of raw strength. He's probably so close to Demandred as makes no difference. I'd bump Sammael up a spot and Mesaana as well. Moghedian is pretty much the weakest of the weak among the forsaken (she's still stronger than nearly all other non-forsaken women of course).

[Mr Ares]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...is this really true? Someone posted a link to the WoT wiki for the Forsaken page and the description for Aginor listed him as the second strongest among the males to Ishamael? Surely Demandred is second, although there was debate on the page that he could be. I thought Aginor was one of the weaker ones. The page went on to say Moghedian was weakest of the females, but I thought it was Mesaana.

Aginor is stated to be the second strongest man, and vying with Lanfear for second strongest of the Chosen. Aside from Lanfear being the strongest woman, we don't know the placements of any of the women - although as Graendal is said to be so strong that men stronger than her are rare, let alone women, her being near the top is very likely. Despite many people claiming that Moghedien is the weakest, there is no actual evidence to support this position - as I say, the only female placement we have for sure is Lanfear, we don't know how any of the women stand in relation to one another beyond that.

[MasterAblar]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...is this really true? Someone posted a link to the WoT wiki for the Forsaken page and the description for Aginor listed him as the second strongest among the males to Ishamael? Surely Demandred is second, although there was debate on the page that he could be. I thought Aginor was one of the weaker ones. The page went on to say Moghedian was weakest of the females, but I thought it was Mesaana.

Aginor is stated to be the second strongest man, and vying with Lanfear for second strongest of the Chosen. Aside from Lanfear being the strongest woman, we don't know the placements of any of the women - although as Graendal is said to be so strong that men stronger than her are rare, let alone women, her being near the top is very likely. Despite many people claiming that Moghedien is the weakest, there is no actual evidence to support this position - as I say, the only female placement we have for sure is Lanfear, we don't know how any of the women stand in relation to one another beyond that.

 

When did it say that Lanfear was second strongest among the chosen?

[Mr Ares]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...is this really true? Someone posted a link to the WoT wiki for the Forsaken page and the description for Aginor listed him as the second strongest among the males to Ishamael? Surely Demandred is second, although there was debate on the page that he could be. I thought Aginor was one of the weaker ones. The page went on to say Moghedian was weakest of the females, but I thought it was Mesaana.

Aginor is stated to be the second strongest man, and vying with Lanfear for second strongest of the Chosen. Aside from Lanfear being the strongest woman, we don't know the placements of any of the women - although as Graendal is said to be so strong that men stronger than her are rare, let alone women, her being near the top is very likely. Despite many people claiming that Moghedien is the weakest, there is no actual evidence to support this position - as I say, the only female placement we have for sure is Lanfear, we don't know how any of the women stand in relation to one another beyond that.

When did it say that Lanfear was second strongest among the chosen?

TGH Glossary, probably the BWB as well.

[Ananta]

Demandred simply because he hasn't completely [messed] up everything he tries. Yet.

[mikael]

Would've been Moggy if she hadn't been such a failure, much like the rest of the forsaken. Who cares about the "chaos" they've created when they lose every fight they´re in? RJ really dropped the ball with the forsaken, sure, let them spread chaos from the shadows and by all means kill off a few, but please, please let them have a win every now and then. Couldn't Semi have killed Min at least? And why in the hell did they make such a fuss about having Graendal deus ex machina out of death, only to fail killing Perrin. I best stop here cause I'll get seriously upset if I keep thinking about how RJ removed all the suspense of the series by having every light sider survive at all costs.

[Arc]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...is this really true? Someone posted a link to the WoT wiki for the Forsaken page and the description for Aginor listed him as the second strongest among the males to Ishamael? Surely Demandred is second, although there was debate on the page that he could be. I thought Aginor was one of the weaker ones. The page went on to say Moghedian was weakest of the females, but I thought it was Mesaana.

Aginor is stated to be the second strongest man, and vying with Lanfear for second strongest of the Chosen. Aside from Lanfear being the strongest woman, we don't know the placements of any of the women - although as Graendal is said to be so strong that men stronger than her are rare, let alone women, her being near the top is very likely. Despite many people claiming that Moghedien is the weakest, there is no actual evidence to support this position - as I say, the only female placement we have for sure is Lanfear, we don't know how any of the women stand in relation to one another beyond that.

 

Check the thirteenth depository page about Saidar power ranking:

 

13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

 

It's not absolute canon, but it gives the best possible estimate about Saidar power ranking (including the forsaken)I've seen around anywhere for a long time, enjoy.

[True Source Creator]

I agree that Semirhage is scariest, based on psycho status. She was so wicked when she described to the Aes Sedai how she once removed a man's blood and replaced it with poison. And her butchering of the Seanchan Royal Family just came across as inhumanely brutal. Definitely a monstrous hellspawn.

 

I always thought Lanfear was second strongest, but it seems hard to compare Saidar to Saidin. But I imagine Lanfear to be stronger than all the males, aside from Ishamael, and probably just slightly above Demandred at that. I was unaware of Aginor's strength, but I guess I overlooked that. As far as women goes, it seems obvious based on Graendal's comments that either she or Semirhage was second in strength to Lanfear and that Mesaana and Moghedian were more of a "second-level Forsaken."

[SylvanFox]

I best stop here cause I'll get seriously upset if I keep thinking about how RJ removed all the suspense of the series by having every light sider survive at all costs.

 

I always kind of assumed that since RJ originally meant for this series to be much shorter, he thought the LB was gonna happen much sooner, and he went ahead and planned out the battle and who would die. So as the series expanded, he couldn't kill the characters who already have deaths planned. I could be horribly wrong, but for now that's what I prefer to believe.

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

Oh Be'lal...he never does well in these things!

 

My List:

 

1. Lanfear

Most interesting of the Forsaken, and the only one with a plan bigger than the Dark One. Shame that she got removed from the story for half the series. A tragic figure. Very likely the most magically adept of the Forsaken, on par with Ishamael and just a step beneath LTT himself due to RJ's personal views. I always enjoyed her dismissive comments about the other Forsaken. She knew she was in a rogues gallery of losers. I hope, in some long distant future turning of the Third Age, that she succeeds in taking Rand away with her on that day at the docks--wherever or whatever form it might take. That'd be a story I'd love to read.

 

2. Asmodean

A rank coward, but somehow the most human of the Forsaken because we got to see him separated from the Dark One and forced to adapt to new circumstances. I wish he had lived through the series and come to embody Moiraine's belief that no one is so far gone to the Shadow that they cannot return to the Light.

 

3. Ishamael

Your classic delusional Satan figure, as Ishamael. As Moridin, less interesting but still more interesting than everyone lower down the list. He deserves to be killed for good. I love to hate him. Ironically, despite being the top Forsaken in the hierarchy, on a personal level he seems like the biggest loser of them all except for Moghedien and Balthamel.

 

(Big Gap.)

 

4. Graendal

The smartest and craftiest of the Forsaken, the one who really should have gotten the job done, and a female character who is described as both fat and sexy--something of a rarity in fantasy, and always appreciated--even if it's an evil character. I wish she had lived through the end of the series. She still might.

 

5. Semirhage

Probably the creepiest of the Forsaken, in my personal view. I wish she had gotten much more story treatment. She is underrated in her abilities. I would consider her possibly the most effective Forsaken.

 

6. Moghedien

I really dislike Moghedien. She's disgusting and pathetic. But in a good way: She's well-written, and evokes that reaction in me because of how she is characterized, just like how it is with Ishy.

 

7. Mesaana

Somebody on the Internet wrote once that Mesaana, having been denied a research post at the Collan Daam in her previous life, resolved as Mesaana to "teach them all!" I liked that. And I gained sympathy for her after Shaidar Haran raped her. I can't believe RJ went there for only the female Forsaken.

 

(Gap.)

 

8. Be'lal

He seemed elegant, but we never really got to know him.

 

9. Sammael

I always pictured him as the comic relief of the Forsaken, or, to put it another way, the only one of them with a good sense of humor. I don't think that's necessarily a fair reading of him, but it's the impression I drew.

 

10. Aginor

He was so pathetic at the end of TEotW. Supposedly he has done more for the Shadow than the others, by creating the Shadowspawn, but that side of Aginor simply wasn't present in the books. A boring waste of the token mad scientist.

 

11. Demandred

All hat and no cattle. What an unlikable character; he elicits no sympathy from me at all. A jerk.

 

(Gap.)

 

12. Rahvin

Even worse than Demandred.

 

13.Balthamel

I don't like womanizers.

[True Source Creator]

I agree with your comments about Lanfear. Beautiful and powerful. I like.

 

I also like Mesaana's backstory, her failure at the university, and her manipulation of children, which she apparently used in the War of Power as weapons. And I love her black, white, and silver Illusion.

 

Reading through TGS, I really wish Semirhage had been featured more prominently in some of the earlier books. She's so...nasty. She would have made a chilling villain if she had been used more.

[Owayn The Traveller]

I went for cuddly boots Sammy.

Gotta love the way he shoot someone else's messenger.

Also he was quite effective as a forsaken. The shaido, Gholam and he was beating Rand in that fight.

But most of all he was just so darn lovely.

[Mr Ares]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...is this really true? Someone posted a link to the WoT wiki for the Forsaken page and the description for Aginor listed him as the second strongest among the males to Ishamael? Surely Demandred is second, although there was debate on the page that he could be. I thought Aginor was one of the weaker ones. The page went on to say Moghedian was weakest of the females, but I thought it was Mesaana.

Aginor is stated to be the second strongest man, and vying with Lanfear for second strongest of the Chosen. Aside from Lanfear being the strongest woman, we don't know the placements of any of the women - although as Graendal is said to be so strong that men stronger than her are rare, let alone women, her being near the top is very likely. Despite many people claiming that Moghedien is the weakest, there is no actual evidence to support this position - as I say, the only female placement we have for sure is Lanfear, we don't know how any of the women stand in relation to one another beyond that.

Check the thirteenth depository page about Saidar power ranking:

 

13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

 

It's not absolute canon, but it gives the best possible estimate about Saidar power ranking (including the forsaken)I've seen around anywhere for a long time, enjoy.

I'm well aware of that list, and if you read between the lines you'll see it supports me - they have no evidence to place Moghedien lowest, for example.

[MasterAblar]

It seems extremely unlikely that Lanfear is stronger than Aginor. Rand was exactly as strong as Asmodean, the weakest of the male forsaken, at the end of tSR. Near the end of the next book he fights Lanfear, and according to RJ could have beat her if he had let LTT take over, which wouldn't have boosted his current strength. Therefore Rand has to be stronger than Lanfear at this point, and yet there is no way he has reached his full potential. He won't have been all that stronger than when he fought Asmodean, probably around Rahvin's strength (then again it's hard to rank the male forsaken precisely in terms of strength).

 

Also if Lanfear was stronger than Demandred and Aginor who are both nearly as strong as LTT that leaves very little space between the strongest man and the strongest woman, too small to make up for the women's ability to link in my opinion.