Perrin & Faile

[Himiko]

I really like Faile XD I was surprised there was so much dislike for her, TBH, but each to their own.

 

Personally, I like her partially because she has flaws, and it seems like these are intentionally written to be obvious. Not wanting to bring other characters into this, but, for example, I find Egwene to be vexing, I think she acts arrogantly and pig-headedly on several occasions, but I always got the feeling that wasn't how she was supposed to come across. I realise, of course, that this is a subjective thing, some people probably think Egwene's great, just as some people seem to really dislike Faile. Variety's a wonderful thing.

 

But anyway, as I was saying: When we meet Faile in the earlier books, she's all bluster and arrogance, she's snappy and somewhat overbearing- she's written that way, and that's how she comes off, frequently making herself look daft infront of the characters for her behaviour. She's fierce, and jealous. And yet, she softens somewhat, and proves to be extremely beneficial to Perrin. But she's not made into Superwoman, again, like some characters of the series. She can handle herself in a fight, but she's not a great warrior. She advises Perrin in his new position, she has a commanding personality, and a deep knowledge of how to play politics, which is realistic from her background as a noblewoman. She's pragmatic- she loves Perrin, but she'll do what she has to to escape from the Shaido. She can be ruthless where Perrin isn't. She hates Berelain, but knows she's the best one to think of a way to get rid of the rumours surrounding her and Perrin.

 

And whilst I agree that her rivalry with Berelain has gone on a long time, I place a lot of that on Berelain's shoulders- she has been pursuing Perrin for a long time, it's unlikely any wife is going to sit back and go "Well, you're trying to steal my husband away from me while I'm right here (or being held captive, for some of the time), why would I have any reason to not be polite and friendly?!" And after Berelain gave up, in the 13th book, its not really the kind of thing that turns you into friends.

 

Lastly, I agree that the way she treats Perrin in the early books is far from ideal. But at least she actually WANTS him to stand up to her, and argue with her, which, given that a lot of the female characters exhibit a "You're a man, you're stupid to question me", I'd say is a point in her favour.

 

As for Perrin- I like him. Him and Faile have an "Opposites Attract" thing between them. Again, he has his flaws, in his "Only Faile matters" stance, for example, but at least the next book has him tackling his guilt over that issue.

[solarz]

While I agree that the Shaido arc wasn't the most exciting story arc, this is part of a general slowdown of the pace of the story. RJ deliberately chose to explore side-plots and broaden the scope of the story. While Perrin was dawdling in Ghealdan, Rand was playing politics in Cairhien and Caemlyn, Mat was babysitting the wonder girls in Ebou Dar, and Egwene's playing politics with the Salidar AS. Pretty much nobody was doing anything of note until Rand, out of nowhere, cleanses Saidin.

 

I also disagree with people's criticisms of Perrin putting Faile above his so-called duty. Remember that way back in book 4, Rand chose to stay away from the Two Rivers and Perrin chose to return. Rand decided that saving the world was more important than saving his loved ones, while Perrin decided that saving his loved ones was more important than helping Rand save the world. Those were their choices, and they stayed true to them until the end. I completely understand Perrin's choice, and I would have done the same thing in his shoes.

 

Mat is fortunate in that he never had to face that choice. Unlike Rand and Perrin, nobody ever expects Mat to do any saving, so when he does save the day, everyone is pleasantly surprised. When Mat saves the wonder girls and Moiraine, everyone thinks he's amazing. When Perrin saves Rand, everyone thinks he's just doing what he's supposed to do.

 

Worse, when he drops Rand's political plots to save his wife, everyone berates him for "abandoning his duty". People seem to forget that he was only in Ghealdan to rein in Masema, and he did so in the end, after saving his wife. I'd say he had his priorities straight!

[DemandredFO]

I think the main reason people dislike Faile is because they dislike Perrin and so she gets it. Also I think you see a culture clash and her major develops occurs books 6-12.

 

[Sabio]

They hate Faile because she turned him into The world can burn I must rescue Faile and she never really added much to the series.  I mean honestly if Faile was removed from the series would it have any impact on the series?

[DemandredFO]

Yeah Faile didn't make him rescue her, she didn't use compulsion on him. You look at it @Sabioas a character flaw in Faile that made Perrin like that, whereas I look it as a flaw in Perrin that he'd doom the world for such a selfish reason. I will say, part of this issue is that RJ took three whole books and Brandon still needed to mop up in a fourth, a situation that should've taken a book and a half at most. More than anything is the fact that RJ slow walked Perrin's arc from Eotw.

[jsbrads]

Yoniy0 I think Faile is older than Perrin. She is slim and short, that is what Davram is referring to when he says weak. Farmers breed out slight, weak bodied in a way that Royalty can’t (unless spouses are chosen for physical robustness versus political connection, also men sometimes prefer petite women).

Lucky I hate manipulative people like Faile. We never were told why she liked him. Perrin being insecure around her is unattractive of him, but telling of her, even after marriage. 

 

Rereading the books I noticed Min loves horses like Perrin does. They share upsetness over horses being caught up by men’s schemes (Perrin at Dumai, Min at The Mist cameo in Cairhein hills). I know Perrin isn’t Min’s type either, but it would have made more sense Min to fall for Perrin, his gentleness in general, she could have seen him caring for his horse... Perrin and Min could have ended up on a Horse ranch in the Westwood at the end. 

It didn’t make sense for Rand to have unlimited promiscuous sex with Min for the second half of the series which is a complete dismissal of Rand’s upbringing and dismissive of his relationship with the other two women.   I know Elayne is white trash, but she could have married Rand in a small private ceremony with Aiel wise women. 

 

Berelain is all wrong for Perrin, she never loved him. There was a physical attraction, but that came after. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by jsbrads

[chadsummerchild]

I begin to dislike her when she tagged along with Perrin on his way back home, she was very self centered and manipulative. I hated her when she got jealousy of Min, she later was not happy about Morgase hiding her true identity which is a thing she would probably also do in a similar situation. 

[solarz]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:22 PM, Sabio said:

They hate Faile because she turned him into The world can burn I must rescue Faile and she never really added much to the series.  I mean honestly if Faile was removed from the series would it have any impact on the series?

 

On 5/29/2019 at 6:57 PM, DemandredFO said:

Yeah Faile didn't make him rescue her, she didn't use compulsion on him. You look at it @Sabioas a character flaw in Faile that made Perrin like that, whereas I look it as a flaw in Perrin that he'd doom the world for such a selfish reason. I will say, part of this issue is that RJ took three whole books and Brandon still needed to mop up in a fourth, a situation that should've taken a book and a half at most. More than anything is the fact that RJ slow walked Perrin's arc from Eotw.

 

Perrin was only there to bring in Masema. How exactly would he have doomed the world?

 

The most that can be said is that he stopped caring about his leadership role, which he never chose in the first place. Faile was simply more important.

Edited July 3, 2019 by solarz

[Witless Looby]

Certain things about Faile, and some of her actions, bug me.  Overall, however, I am fine with her and I think she is good for Perrin.  But yeah, she started giving him "full-armed slaps" a bit too frequently for my tastes for a while there.  I don't like domestic violence no matter which direction it flows.  It is a matter of simple human respect and I don't care "how it's done in Saldaea."  Perrin should not have responded physically.

 

She also did seem to seriously retard/delay Perrin's integration with his wolfbrother side and with other wolves and the Wolf Dream / T'a 'R.  Instead of mastering his skills in the Wolf Dream he spent a lot of time "learning" how to lord his new lordly status over his erstwhile neighbors and hunting buddies, and how to keep wifey happy. 

 

I think she is a good wife and I appreciate how she looks after his interests whether he is aware she is doing so or not.

 

The plotline of doom  (Faile's capture by the Shaido and eventual rescue) was awful but so was the Andoran succession and I still like Elayne and Dyelin.   So I guess I blame RJ more than I blame the characters when plotlines drag.

[WoTgamer]

Failed isn’t the problem.

the problem is she treats Perrin like a lord and he starts to act like one

its heartbreaking to have the alpha wolf turn into a very confused beta at best and having to compensate in wolf land for this uptight rebellious anxiety prone wreck of a woman. 

She is a things person in a people world 

and the only thing I like about her are her disciples 

[Bard29]

The kidnappning of Faile by shaido and Elayne succession to the throne story have some in common, both events är important to both characters and both storys är to long where nothing really happens. I remember  a scenen where Demandred notice that Elayne is upset about the way Rand has placed the Lion throne and Demandred smiles and say let the lord of chaos rules. I thought after that scene that the shadow was going to create distrust between Elayne and Rand but nothing of that happens.                                      Faile relationship with Perrin is one of THE most interesting in the series, here there are two different culture that collide and how they handle it is fascinating. 

[Sunrose]

It seems Faile has no goals but her own ego, her life evolves around her and her needs and desires and she drags Perrin into that, the vibe you get is  that their storyline is all about the two of hem. I don't like it, not in real life either. There's a whole world to heal and real love is bigger than this.

[Witless Looby]

Sunrose, in Faile's defense I will remind you how very young she is (and Perrin for that matter).  A powerful romantic love at that age can indeed push other priorities out of the way, at least for some time.

 

Recall, too, that she does much to educate and encourage him as to his responsibilities to his soldiers and followers.  And when Rand pulls at Perrin with his ta'veren-ness, she may not be thrilled but she understands that Perrin needs to go to Rand.

[Sunrose]

I agree I might have over-simplified their story. Indeed in the end he does go to Rand, which is the most important thing. There's something unsympathetic about her in my opinion, I don't know why exactly but it has felt that way from the start.

[Sabio]

Faile pushed him to basicly be a Lord in the two Rivers.  That is one of my issues with Faile,  she constantly tries to force Perrin into becoming what she wants him to be.  It's hard to like her because she seems so manipulative.  Like tricking Loial to take her in the ways, forcing Perrin to become Lord in the Two Rivers, she basicly forces how she feels the Two Rivers should be run on the Two River folks.  All the nonsense of traveling the ways on way to the Two Rivers made me dislike her.  

[DemandredFO]

I get all that but Perrin is still responsible for himself. Perrin should've thrown her out when she tricked Loial but that, Perrin becoming a lord and the whole rescue debacle are partly his fault.

[jsbrads]

By the time Faile pulled that crap with tricking Loial, Perrin had already saved her in Telrhoid when they first got to Tear. Until that point, I saw no real interest on Perrin’s part (other than some physical attraction). Once Perrin sacrifices for Faile, that is a very binding experience. 

[DemandredFO]

I think part of the problem is after Dumais Wells, Perrin's storyline crawls until ToM and in that book months go by for him. Yes Faile can be annoying and I will never like Perrin as much as the others but ToM his storyline isn't bad. He won't ever be my favorite but if his story moved faster so Brandon didn't have to shoehorn all his character development into one book, I might like him better. Same with Elayne, except her development seesaws so you never know which Elayne you'll get. Of the major female characters, I think Nyneave has the best and steadiest development and Egwene doesn't count because after tGH nothing ever goes wrong for her.

[Sabio]

Everything with Perin moved slow.  rescuing Faile, learning wolf dream, accepting leadership, getting Bearlon to leave him alone etc..  Everything was drawn out with him.

[DemandredFO]

It was slow up until most everything happened in one book which I'm wondering if the author hadn't changed, how precisely would Perrin's story have gone. I'm fairly certain it would've taken more than three books. Like someone used to say on these forums RJ was and would've always been 2 books from finishing