Who do you feel most sorry for?

[Duskfire]

I feel most sorry for Lan because he has to shoulder the entire weight of Malkier and still, he goes to willingly sacrifice himself for his country and was willing to do it alone - which I think takes the greatest courage.

 

But isnt it more courageous to stay alive and suffer the weight of Malkier while saving the world?

 

After all, him dying aimlessly will just hurt the allies more then anything. If anything, he is just being selfish in the sense that he is choosing to sacrifise himself rather then help his friends.

[Mongoose]

Rand. When Semirhage snapped the Dominarion Band I literally threw the book down and went 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO' for like fifteen minutes before I could begin reading again.

 

Also the Aiel. After Aviendha's viewing. Man, that was super-depressing.

[Lupy]

I always assumed that the reason we never see most of the characters think about their families is that we: A) See them less than Rand, and B)When we do see them they're usually doing something.

 

Since Egwene and Perrin have thoughts when we aren't in their heads with them, they presumably have thought about home. Egwene has before onscreen as well, in TGH and TDR.

[ina sakhanskaya]

I'm not at all sorry for Rand. Perhaps i'm the only one who doesn't loke the character in the whole series of books. He is NOT in love with 3 women, he doesn't love anyone at all... i dislike him for the stupidity he treats these women with... And all 3 are just nonsence...

Who said Tylin raped Mat? she just chased him and treated him the way he used to treat women.

 

Who i'm really sorry for is Hopper.

[ina sakhanskaya]

i also hope that Rand will die in the last battle to save mankind. This is the fate he deserves. And i also hope that Lan will NOT die (though my hope is dimm) because i will feel sorry for Nyneave so much...

[Seeker Matt]

I'm not at all sorry for Rand. Perhaps i'm the only one who doesn't loke the character in the whole series of books. He is NOT in love with 3 women, he doesn't love anyone at all... i dislike him for the stupidity he treats these women with... And all 3 are just nonsence...

Who said Tylin raped Mat? she just chased him and treated him the way he used to treat women.

 

Who i'm really sorry for is Hopper.

I haven't been able to see any evidence that Tylin treated Mat the way Mat treated anyone else... What is even comparable between the two of them?

 

Why do you think Rand doesn't love Min/Elayne/Avi and what's stupid about his treatment of them?

[ina sakhanskaya]

First and foremost, Rand. I don't think this needs any explanation, but in addition to the obvious reasons, I feel sorry for him being stuck with three horrid women. Elayne is a heartless shrew as far as he's concerned and Aviendha would rather be with Elayne than Rand. As far as Min goes, she had always been the only one of the three I actually liked with Rand but after she betrayed his trust to Cadsuane, then insisted on going to the meeting with "Tuon" (when she knew it could be dangerous for him and that he worries more about her than himself), I began disliking her as well.

 

Second place: Nynaeve. She loves a man who cares more about his dead owner (and dying) than her. She has been beaten down by Egwene and Cadsuane. Egwene, a twitty little girl who is supposed to be her friend, gets off on treating Nynaeve like crap and wants her to be a mindless slave to her will. The best thing Nyn could do for her own sanity is hand Egwene her serpent ring and tell her to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

Third place: Mat. Yet another good man stuck with a woman who is a shrew and treats him like garbage. He lost an eye to save yet another thankless shrew who thinks she controls the world.

 

Fourth place: Logain. An awesome character, who is not so wussified that he bows and scrapes to any Aes Sedai who sniffs at him, yet I have the sinking feeling his "glorious" future will involve submitting himself and the Asha'man to Egwene's authority. I'd rather see him and the Asha'man dead than enslaved by Egwene and the Aes Sedai, whether as Warders or subjects.

 

Honorable mention: Gawyn. I've never liked him, and like him even less after ToM, but I do pity him. He's stuck with a woman who wants a mindless slave instead of a man and he agreed to those terms. He should count himself lucky if being bonded by her brings him an early death. A lifetime of that wench would be enough to make most men slit their own wrists.

 

As an aside, Perrin is the only one who struck gold with his woman. I wish Faile had hooked up with Rand instead - Faile would rip Egwene to shreds for treating the man she loves like Egwene treats Rand (and everyone who doesn't kiss her butt!).

 

 

i see that all women in the series are sluts or shrews to you... well, who are the men in the series for you if they choose such women??? Faile killed Masima and that was a great scene. why is she so bad? and Moiraine? she helped Mat escape dull and senceless life in the two rivers where he would marry a village girl and live there like an average human being. So i guess Moiraine is Mat's savior.

[ina sakhanskaya]

I'm not at all sorry for Rand. Perhaps i'm the only one who doesn't loke the character in the whole series of books. He is NOT in love with 3 women, he doesn't love anyone at all... i dislike him for the stupidity he treats these women with... And all 3 are just nonsence...

Who said Tylin raped Mat? she just chased him and treated him the way he used to treat women.

 

Who i'm really sorry for is Hopper.

I haven't been able to see any evidence that Tylin treated Mat the way Mat treated anyone else... What is even comparable between the two of them?

 

Why do you think Rand doesn't love Min/Elayne/Avi and what's stupid about his treatment of them?

 

 

Because if he treated them fair he would choose ONE woman. He wouldn't say "i'm sorry, i love three of you. can you just decide for yourself wjat to do with it"

 

As far as Tylin goes, she treated Mat the way average men nowadays treat women. And of course men don't like such attitude. they perfer to be on top

[Seeker Matt]

I'm not at all sorry for Rand. Perhaps i'm the only one who doesn't loke the character in the whole series of books. He is NOT in love with 3 women, he doesn't love anyone at all... i dislike him for the stupidity he treats these women with... And all 3 are just nonsence...

Who said Tylin raped Mat? she just chased him and treated him the way he used to treat women.

 

Who i'm really sorry for is Hopper.

I haven't been able to see any evidence that Tylin treated Mat the way Mat treated anyone else... What is even comparable between the two of them?

 

Why do you think Rand doesn't love Min/Elayne/Avi and what's stupid about his treatment of them?

 

 

Because if he treated them fair he would choose ONE woman. He wouldn't say "i'm sorry, i love three of you. can you just decide for yourself wjat to do with it"[1]

 

As far as Tylin goes, she treated Mat the way average men nowadays treat women. And of course men don't like such attitude. they perfer to be on top[2]

 

[1]If it’s consensual, I don’t see the issue. It’s also not a matter of indecision: he realises he loves all 3 equally. Perhaps it isn't fair on the women but I don't see that that means the unfairness is Rand's fault.

[2]So most men use their authority as near-absolute rulers and commanders of armies to bully their affections onto women?

 

Ye, still failing to see how Tylin’s actions can be compared equally with Mat’s.

 

I’m not sure why I bothered to reply, you seem to be trolling.

[farthammer]

Gawyn is a eunuch.

[ina sakhanskaya]

I'm not at all sorry for Rand. Perhaps i'm the only one who doesn't loke the character in the whole series of books. He is NOT in love with 3 women, he doesn't love anyone at all... i dislike him for the stupidity he treats these women with... And all 3 are just nonsence...

Who said Tylin raped Mat? she just chased him and treated him the way he used to treat women.

 

Who i'm really sorry for is Hopper.

I haven't been able to see any evidence that Tylin treated Mat the way Mat treated anyone else... What is even comparable between the two of them?

 

Why do you think Rand doesn't love Min/Elayne/Avi and what's stupid about his treatment of them?

 

 

Because if he treated them fair he would choose ONE woman. He wouldn't say "i'm sorry, i love three of you. can you just decide for yourself wjat to do with it"[1]

 

As far as Tylin goes, she treated Mat the way average men nowadays treat women. And of course men don't like such attitude. they perfer to be on top[2]

 

[1]If it’s consensual, I don’t see the issue. It’s also not a matter of indecision: he realises he loves all 3 equally. Perhaps it isn't fair on the women but I don't see that that means the unfairness is Rand's fault.

[2]So most men use their authority has near-absolute rulers and commanders of armies to bully their affections onto women?

 

Ye, still failing to see how Tylin’s actions can be compared equally with Mat’s.

 

I’m not sure why I bothered to reply, you seem to be a-trolling.

 

 

could you please bother to reply once again since i don't get the word "a-trolling"

as far as Tylin goes she toyed with Mat, why is that so bad? it was fun i guess, especially the fact that he was irritated...

as far as Rand goes, it's impossible to treat all women equally. He didn't love them either equally or passionately. He could pluck up his courage and say "sorry, my honeys, i have the last battle to win, so could you please get out of my way with your lovy-dovey stuff"

[Zentari]

@iness: You argue that Mat was treated the same way he treats woman ? Interesting ,I look forward to the parts you will reference, specifically the one where he ties them down, has sex without their consent and then afterwards treats them as a toy to mess with daily.Unless of course you are without proof on your claim.

 

As for the other situation as long as the other parties agreed to it, I don't see a problem.Frankly , the problem is on how idiotic the romances look in WoT in general but that's another discussion.

[MatrixM]

He could pluck up his courage and say "sorry, my honeys, i have the last battle to win, so could you please get out of my way with your lovy-dovey stuff"

Wasn't that what he tried to do for the first nine books?

[Seeker Matt]

I'm not at all sorry for Rand. Perhaps i'm the only one who doesn't loke the character in the whole series of books. He is NOT in love with 3 women, he doesn't love anyone at all... i dislike him for the stupidity he treats these women with... And all 3 are just nonsence...

Who said Tylin raped Mat? she just chased him and treated him the way he used to treat women.

 

Who i'm really sorry for is Hopper.

I haven't been able to see any evidence that Tylin treated Mat the way Mat treated anyone else... What is even comparable between the two of them?

 

Why do you think Rand doesn't love Min/Elayne/Avi and what's stupid about his treatment of them?

 

 

Because if he treated them fair he would choose ONE woman. He wouldn't say "i'm sorry, i love three of you. can you just decide for yourself wjat to do with it"[1]

 

As far as Tylin goes, she treated Mat the way average men nowadays treat women. And of course men don't like such attitude. they perfer to be on top[2]

 

[1]If it’s consensual, I don’t see the issue. It’s also not a matter of indecision: he realises he loves all 3 equally. Perhaps it isn't fair on the women but I don't see that that means the unfairness is Rand's fault.

[2]So most men use their authority has near-absolute rulers and commanders of armies to bully their affections onto women?

 

Ye, still failing to see how Tylin’s actions can be compared equally with Mat’s.

 

I’m not sure why I bothered to reply, you seem to be a-trolling.

 

 

could you please bother to reply once again since i don't get the word "a-trolling"

as far as Tylin goes she toyed with Mat, why is that so bad? it was fun i guess, especially the fact that he was irritated...

as far as Rand goes, it's impossible to treat all women equally. He didn't love them either equally or passionately. He could pluck up his courage and say "sorry, my honeys, i have the last battle to win, so could you please get out of my way with your lovy-dovey stuff"

 

Unless you are especially poor at English comprehension I'm sure you'll figure out what I meant.

 

You say the treatment of Mat by Tylin was fun but earlier you implied that her action toward Mat was comparable to the actions of men to women today... You still have yet to provide any evidence that her actions are reasonably comparable to Mat's.

 

First of all, I said love equally. You say it's impossible to love all three equally as if it's self-evident; I disagree. All three women were quite clear that they desired Rand's love and affections whatever the costs were: Rand didn't bond them; they bonded Rand. I also think it is incredibly naive and simplistic to say he was weak for not pushing away those he loved.

 

Perhaps you will be able to substantiate your earlier ridiculous generalisations but I doubt it.

 

That's my last reply as it's turned into an off-topic dialogue.

[ina sakhanskaya]

@iness: You argue that Mat was treated the same way he treats woman ? Interesting ,I look forward to the parts you will reference, specifically the one where he ties them down, has sex without their consent and then afterwards treats them as a toy to mess with daily.Unless of course you are without proof on your claim.

 

As for the other situation as long as the other parties agreed to it, I don't see a problem.Frankly , the problem is on how idiotic the romances look in WoT in general but that's another discussion.

 

 

I didn't mean that Mat abused women and of course there is no evidence of ties or the like. i mentioned more psycological aspect of such "relationship". Moreover i said that Tylin acted the way some MEN do, and no one is surprised. But if a woman "rapes" a man, then that's a topic for discussin! even if he is a character in a book, then i am tortured on the forum for what i posted.

[Zentari]

@iness: You argue that Mat was treated the same way he treats woman ? Interesting ,I look forward to the parts you will reference, specifically the one where he ties them down, has sex without their consent and then afterwards treats them as a toy to mess with daily.Unless of course you are without proof on your claim.

 

As for the other situation as long as the other parties agreed to it, I don't see a problem.Frankly , the problem is on how idiotic the romances look in WoT in general but that's another discussion.

 

 

I didn't mean that Mat abused women and of course there is no evidence of ties or the like. i mentioned more psycological aspect of such "relationship". Moreover i said that Tylin acted the way some MEN do, and no one is surprised. But if a woman "rapes" a man, then that's a topic for discussin! even if he is a character in a book, then i am tortured on the forum for what i posted.

Sorry but that's still far-fetched.Mat never ONCE did stuff like that or pushed woman in a corner like that so your psychological argument holds no sway what-so-ever.You can blame Mat for being a player, but he never went out of his way to make a woman feel so suppressed.

 

Furthermore, what she did can constitute as a rape so I fail to see how her acting like some men excuses her actions in ANY way.

 

This discussion would be happening even if it was the other way around (i.e a man raping a woman) so let's not get into the whole sexism thing once again.

 

Lastly, you were called out on something you claimed , not tortured about it.Saying that he got treated as he treats women is a false claim.

Saying that he got what he deserved is an opinion,which while I find to be pretty vindictive, you are entitled to.

 

PS:I'm not saying this is your opinion, merely throwing an example.

[francy]

Rand, for all of the obvious reasons, he has been used and abused and manipulated. He is fated to save the world and die doing it. He has a pretty SH**TY deal really.

 

But I really feel for Setalle as well. I like her loads, and I often hope that Nynaeve will come across her, or better yet - the Ashaman who can heal her so that she'll be back at her full power... I doubt it'll happen - but you never know! It would be a cruel twist of fate for it NOT to happen...

[Mr Ares]

Rand. When Semirhage snapped the Dominarion Band I literally threw the book down and went 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO' for like fifteen minutes before I could begin reading again.

Did you pause for breath? If not, that's really impressive.

 

Because if he treated them fair he would choose ONE woman. He wouldn't say "i'm sorry, i love three of you. can you just decide for yourself wjat to do with it"

So it's fair to dismiss two of the three women you love? It's fair to give them no say in the matter of who ends up with him?I must say, I find your definition of fairness rather odd.

 

As far as Tylin goes, she treated Mat the way average men nowadays treat women.

You must have some really bad luck with men if your experience of the average man involves knives, stealing your clothes, refusing to take no for an answer and the like.

[Sid]

Nobody feels sorry for Tylin, even though she was gruesomely murdered.

[Sleeper]

Nobody feels sorry for Tylin, even though she was gruesomely murdered.

A lot of people have been gruesomely murdered throughout the series, it's just a matter of picking the ones that least deserved it.

 

Tylin was kind of a rapist

[Guest cindy.]

nobody deserves to be gruesomely murdered.

 

i don't think mat saw her as a rapist, and i don't think RJ wrote her as a rapist. it kind of minimizes the word to use it this way, imo. but if you really see it that way, i won't try to convince you otherwise.

 

regardless, nobody deserves to be gruesomely murdered.

 

personally, i find it hard to feel sorry for pretend people i'm reading about. but i still can't help but feel sorry for hopper.

[Sid]

Nobody feels sorry for Tylin, even though she was gruesomely murdered.

A lot of people have been gruesomely murdered throughout the series, it's just a matter of picking the ones that least deserved it.

 

Tylin was kind of a rapist

In case you misinterpreted my post, it was in response to the previous conversation rather than trying to garner sympathy for Tylin.

[Lupy]

@Cindy, Tylin reduced Mat to tears multiple times, and made him so desperate for help that he went to Elayne. I think Mat saw her as a rapist.

[Guest cindy.]

and he was saddened by her death because he had stockholm syndrome?

 

dagnabbit, this account is making me argumentative. if you want to call it rape, call it rape. it makes no nevermind to me.

 

so, let me add this up, that's no more nazi chat and no more rapist chat.

[Sleeper]

nobody deserves to be gruesomely murdered.

Eh, there are a couple people I wouldn't mind seeing gruesomely murdered, but I agree that Tylin didn't deserve it. However, she has done some pretty bad things, so I wouldn't let her off the hook.

 

i don't think mat saw her as a rapist, and i don't think RJ wrote her as a rapist. it kind of minimizes the word to use it this way, imo. but if you really see it that way, i won't try to convince you otherwise.

Sexual contact against someone's will, textbook rape. I think it was pretty clear that Mat didn't want to get cuddly with her. He may have grown to like her and appreciated her actions in helping him escape, but that doesn't change the fact that the first time she... ahem... got cozy with him and assuredly the several times after were rape.

 

However, I won't press the issue.

 

regardless, nobody deserves to be gruesomely murdered.

 

personally, i find it hard to feel sorry for pretend people i'm reading about. but i still can't help but feel sorry for hopper.