Shayol Ghul / Pit of Doom

[Beidomon]

Just Started Book 6: LoC in my re-read. Demandred goes to visit the Pit of Doom. The Pit seems to be a physical location inside Shayol Ghul. Demandred says that he first visited the Pit over 3000 years ago. But, Demandred also reflects that, in the Age of Legends, Shayol Ghul was "an idyllic island in a cool sea, a favorite of those who enjoyed the rustic." In fact, the Forsaken were holding a company retreat at this resort when they were captured.

 

Something doesn't add up here. If the Pit existed 3000 years ago at Shayol Ghul, that seems a bit out of place for "an idyllic island." Was it just hidden in the basement? Or, did the Pit form after the Forsaken were captured, and the resort closed? Demandred says he's visited the Pit many times, so I guess that means he had access to it while he was imprisoned in the Bore, even though the Bore is not a physical location like the Pit.

 

Any explanations?

[killuliu]

I believe the Pit is explained as "the place where the Bore is the closest to the world", so before the Breaking it was in an idyllic island, but when the breaking moved mountains, broke continents etc. it moved the Pit to the North (which later (I think it wasn't it to begin with) became the Blight. So the Pit is a name given for place where one can feel the Bore.

[Beidomon]

I believe the Pit is explained as "the place where the Bore is the closest to the world", so before the Breaking it was in an idyllic island, but when the breaking moved mountains, broke continents etc. it moved the Pit to the North (which later (I think it wasn't it to begin with) became the Blight. So the Pit is a name given for place where one can feel the Bore.

 

Right, but if that's the case, then how did Demandred visit the Pit over 3000 years ago (pre-breaking, before his imprisonment)? That's why I'm saying something doesn't seem to add up.

 

How about this: Shayol Ghul was an idyllic island, but it transformed to its more current form, with Pit, during the War of Power. Maybe the Forsaken even had a hand in that transformation. Demandred visited Pit before LT showed up and imprisoned them. Do we know if Shayol Ghul was still an idyllic island when LT led his assaul there?

[Sharaman]

The GLoD "moved" Shayol Ghul and the Blight somewhat out of alignment with normal reality. That's why it's not possible to go there via TAR.

Presumably the local geography, flora and fauna, changed along with the climate at that stage.

After that, the Breaking scrambled most of the world's physical features.

However, SG would have been an island, idyllic or not, until the Breaking. So LTT & co. must have Travelled to an island.

[thevillagecouncil]

considering that he was still sealed up at the time, I doubt anyone realized there was anything wrong with the location preceding the drilling of the bore. The DO probably didn't have control over reality like he does now that the seals are nearly all broken. Once that hole was opened up i'm sure that's when darkfriends began visiting the island for a purpose other than sunshiny beaches. It probably became a desolate place overrun by darkfriends and all manner of things evil. Then once the breaking happened it turned into a volcano and the dark one's influence turned the surrounding countryside into the blight.

[Feral]

I'd always figured that the idylic island had in fact featured a volcano which had been dormant for ages and then blew its top some time after the Bore had been drilled.

[Agitel]

The Pit hasn't moved since it was made. The Pit was once on an island north of the mainland. Once the Bore was drilled perhaps the mountain was made as well (or perhaps that was when many of the hundred companions lost it). Anyway, the Pit refers to where the Bore was made. Perhaps that was partially underground? We don't know.

 

But the idea of a location physically moving is just silly to me, particularly when we can be pretty sure that Earth in the Age of Legends looked pretty much like Earth in the modern world. It's one of the islands in the Barents Sea.

[Beidomon]

The Pit is a physical location - the Bore is not. "Physically, this place was no closer to the Bore than any other in the world, but here there was a thinness in the Pattern that allowed it to be sensed." That's the only connection between the Bore and the Pit that I'm aware of. Maybe the creation of the Bore created the Pit - it's a possibility.

 

Bottom line is that, at some point, Shayol Ghul goes from an "idyllic island" to an angry volcano with a tunnel to Hell, and that had to have happened during the AoL because Demandred says he was there over 3000 years ago. Everything else is speculation - unless RJ ever provided some explanation or there's something else in the books?

[Byzantine279]

It probably happened soon after the bore was made. Because Ishamael went and talked with the DO before he turned if I remember what I read correctly. I find it likely that the pit is just the way the DO manipulated reality at the bore, we know he can change the world at the bore, so it makes sense he would create something like the pit of doom to house it, and meet with the Forsaken. Meaning he destroyed that idyllic island by putting a chamber of lava in it that erupted into a volcano.

[yoniy0]

Anyone else find it ironic that @Beidomon was the one asking about this?

 

I, like others, believe the process of Drilling the Bore was what changed the topography of Shayol Ghul. I do agree that it was probably still surrounded by the ocean until the Breaking. Coming to think about it, perhaps it still is? After all, there's an ice cap north of the Blight. Do we know for sure how far south it stretches?

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Anyone else find it ironic that @Beidomon was the one asking about this?

 

Lol completely missed that. Awesome. Anyway, pre-Bore Shayol Ghul was just an island like any other, but the drilling gave the DO vastly increased influence over it (I have a sense it may have opened the tunnel to the Pit of Doom itself, but that's just a theory). As Shai'tan's touch on the world began to twist it, the island lost its idyllic character and became the nightmarish place of today. The Pit of Doom arose at some point during this transformation, either immediately as per my theory or later on. Both of these states of the island would have been three thousand years ago, and both of Demandred's statements are true. The Shayol Ghul Resort was NOT still around post-Bore, or at least not for long. The Forsaken "company meeting" as Beidomon puts it was not at any sort of luxurious resort, it was in a hellhole (literally!). They weren't there for luxury, they were there so they could talk with the Big Guy Downstairs. And then along came some Companions to gatecrash the party...

[Beidomon]

Sigh... for like the 3 thousandth time, the Bore was not my idea. I was all like, "No Meirin, we're not supposed to!" and Meirin was all like "Come on Beidy, won't you do it for me?" Look, the chick may be nuts, but she's wicked hot. I'm not made of stone! The next thing I remember I'm waking up with the worst hangover, the jo-car's wrecked, all my credit cards are gone, and the Dark One is free.

[Elend]

Sigh... for like the 3 thousandth time, the Bore was not my idea. I was all like, "No Meirin, we're not supposed to!" and Meirin was all like "Come on Beidy, won't you do it for me?" Look, the chick may be nuts, but she's wicked hot. I'm not made of stone! The next thing I remember I'm waking up with the worst hangover, the jo-car's wrecked, all my credit cards are gone, and the Dark One is free.

 

Not the way I heard it from your grad students. And you worked those poor people to death for your little science project.

[yoniy0]

Sigh... for like the 3 thousandth time, the Bore was not my idea. I was all like, "No Meirin, we're not supposed to!" and Meirin was all like "Come on Beidy, won't you do it for me?" Look, the chick may be nuts, but she's wicked hot. I'm not made of stone! The next thing I remember I'm waking up with the worst hangover, the jo-car's wrecked, all my credit cards are gone, and the Dark One is free.

ROFLMAO (@Elend +1)

 

I hope you don't mind, this is now my sig.

[capuga]

Sigh... for like the 3 thousandth time, the Bore was not my idea. I was all like, "No Meirin, we're not supposed to!" and Meirin was all like "Come on Beidy, won't you do it for me?" Look, the chick may be nuts, but she's wicked hot. I'm not made of stone! The next thing I remember I'm waking up with the worst hangover, the jo-car's wrecked, all my credit cards are gone, and the Dark One is free.

 

One of the funny posts I've ever seen on this site.

[Suttree]

Sigh... for like the 3 thousandth time, the Bore was not my idea. I was all like, "No Meirin, we're not supposed to!" and Meirin was all like "Come on Beidy, won't you do it for me?" Look, the chick may be nuts, but she's wicked hot. I'm not made of stone! The next thing I remember I'm waking up with the worst hangover, the jo-car's wrecked, all my credit cards are gone, and the Dark One is free.

 

Easily the best post of the year so far...good on ya.

[FarShainMael]

Sigh... for like the 3 thousandth time, the Bore was not my idea. I was all like, "No Meirin, we're not supposed to!" and Meirin was all like "Come on Beidy, won't you do it for me?" Look, the chick may be nuts, but she's wicked hot. I'm not made of stone! The next thing I remember I'm waking up with the worst hangover, the jo-car's wrecked, all my credit cards are gone, and the Dark One is free.

ROFLMAO (@Elend +1)

 

I hope you don't mind, this is now my sig.

 

 

Drat, you got there first!!!

 

Superb post!

[Smiley73]

@ Beidomon: thats great, Meirin rode the

 

well a forsaken (I can't remember who) does say that a few miles north of Shayol Ghul everything was ice, all day, every day (that was paraphrased)

so obviously not an island paradise type climate. so I believe the breaking or the DO's power shifted this place northwards towards the pole closer to the permafrost

[Jon Paul]

Shayol Ghul was likely once in the south, probably where the Pacific Ocean is for us. The Breaking would have thrown it up north. And that Dark One guy doesn't exactly strike me as one to let daffodils grow in his back garden.

[herid]

The Breaking could have moved Shayol Ghul as many have noted but I do find it a bit strange that its old place was "an idyllic island in a cool sea, a favorite of those who enjoyed the rustic" given that the bore was originally created in V’saine, where Sharom was located. It would be more natural for Shayol Ghul to be there, or, rather, wherever that place ended up being after the Breaking.

[Jon Paul]

The Bore is not a physical thing though. There is simply as thinness in the Pattern at Shayol Ghul that allows for it to be sensed more strongly than anywhere else.

[herid]

The Bore is not a physical thing though. There is simply as thinness in the Pattern at Shayol Ghul that allows for it to be sensed more strongly than anywhere else.

sure, but it would still be more natural for the thinness of the pattern to be where the bore was originally made and not in some other, apparently random place.

[rand4747]

The Bore is not a physical thing though. There is simply as thinness in the Pattern at Shayol Ghul that allows for it to be sensed more strongly than anywhere else.

sure, but it would still be more natural for the thinness of the pattern to be where the bore was originally made and not in some other, apparently random place.

 

They didn't need to be at the thinness to bore into it, and the thinness was always there it was not a product of the bore. (may not have been there in past ages though, could have been an error made by the last dragon before lews therin)

[Smiley73]

@ herid

maybe the bore was made in V'saine and the continents got moved around so the island paradise was in the space previously occupied by V'saine, ie. the thinness in the pattern did not move the landmasses did, maybe there's a whole ice age going on because I'm sure V'saine was not freezing cold as Shayol Ghul would be if the DO weren't strong there and the without forges and whatnot

[herid]

@ herid

maybe the bore was made in V'saine and the continents got moved around so the island paradise was in the space previously occupied by V'saine, ie. the thinness in the pattern did not move the landmasses did, maybe there's a whole ice age going on because I'm sure V'saine was not freezing cold as Shayol Ghul would be if the DO weren't strong there and the without forges and whatnot

no, that's not how it was. Both Shayol Ghul and the Pit of Doom existed in AoL before the Breaking. That's where the Forsaken swore to the DO, the mindtraps were used etc. that's mentioned multiple times throughout the books. Even before the breaking the thinness of the pattern was best felt there and not at V'saine where the Bore was made. That's what I find strange.