How does mat know?

[TheDiceAgain...]

And therein lies the paradox of balefire. People remember things as happening even though they never actually happened, at least not after the balefire was done with the perpetrator...

[Thor]

I just want to say that Mat and Tuon attacking the White Tower has also crossed my mind. What if Rand was captured (again?) or maybe Mat was trying to rescue Egwene (imagine how angree Egwene will be, that ??<>.)

 

It would make sense if Rand is somewhere close because Tuon can then put the male a'dam on Rand and cause him pain, and then Perrin will be there to clobber Tuon, and then Mat will slap Perrin, and then Tarmon Gai'don will be over. :lol:

[jkeaves]

In one of the other topics, "Egwene the Dreamer", there is mention about the similarity between the Accepted testing and the Portal Stones. Recall that we followed Rand through all these possible worlds? Well, Mat was with Rand, Verin, Uno, etc. at the portal stones. And it seemed that everybody had a similar incident as that of Rand. I wonder if out of that experience Mat received information about events in addition to the Snakes? Come to think about it, hasn't practically everybody who was at the Portal Stones and who was a named character has been acting kind of strang from that point forward.

[Mitch]

To die and live again.

Yeah, I believe that was the event in Caemlyn with the balefire.

But I do have a problem with his not dying by hanging.

(WARNING: I'M JUST RAMBLING, THERE IS NO THEORY HERE)

Rand and Mat were in Rhuidean for...7 days I think it was. Mat hung around the plaza only for a little bit before going through the doorway. But I don't think that whole episode took more than a few hours. Because if you think about it, there wasn't a huge lapse of time when they went through the one in Tear. So we have Mat hanging for nearly a week, and he's still 'Almost Dead'.

[Kaxen]

I have always believed that the timing of visits to Rhuidean being different to real time are because of the power wrought mist that shroudes Rhuidean. I think it has an effect similar to The World of Dreams.

[jkeaves]

I don't recall a time difference in Rhui., but I pretty sure RJ mentioned that Mat's dying and living again happened with the Rahvin-balefire incident.

[Kaxen]

All the poeple waiting on Cheandar tell Rand an Mat they were in Rhuidean for 7 days, but its no where near that from what we read. The reason it can't be the ter'angreal they use is because when Mat, Rand an Moiraine use the first redstone door frame to the snakes they aren't gone for days. Hence Mat using the other redstone doorframe to the foxes is unlikely to have lasted days either. Hence it must be something to do with the fog shrouding Rhuidean.

[Bob T Dwarf]

A reasonable premise, but it has a couple of problems.

 

First, one doorway led to the Aelfinn. The other led to the Eelfinn. We don't know for certain whether the two races inhabit the same plane of existence. They may. They may not. If they do not, time may work differently on one plane than it does on the other.

 

Second, in Tear, the presence of two ta'veren in that plane at the same time was creating some kind of resonance that was threatening the 'Finn's existence. They were actively working to minimize the time Rand and Mat spent on their plane in order to protect their own survival. Or, at least their wellbeing. So, the time it took in Tear, probably has no bearing on how long Mat was "inside" the doorway in Rhuidean.

 

In Rhuidean, Mat was their first visitor from our world in a very long time. They seem to feed off human auras. Ta'veren have particularly strong auras. Thus, it is reasonable to suppose that they would have manipulated things so as to maximize their time with Mat, since he was there alone.

[Thor]

I think time might run differently somehow, best not to go too deep into that.

 

Rahvin balefire is quite straightfoward so I support that.

[jkeaves]

Well, Rui. wasn't a Gap or a Wanker-Mart. It was protected by a dome to preserve the contents. We don't know what the actual usage or properties of the dome, but I believe that one of the Wise Ones said that if they didn't return within a certain amount of time, they wouldn't return. So, there is a time factor. Here's a question I want to know about Matt's incident with the Eelfinn: Why did they go to the trouble of making a connection with him if they were going to kill him? What did they know? They go over give him all this stuff, make some kind of connection to see through him, and then toss him out to die. Was the main point to experience him dying? Perhaps they get his soul? Thoughts?

[Trib4l]

That was the price paid. He reads the statement on his spear right after waking up.

[Anajon]

I always wondered about that - and it is one reason why i think he died and lived again, right there and then.

 

Why would they give him all that prophecy about Tuon and the rest and then kill him?

[Bob T Dwarf]

At the time he went through the doorway in Rhuidean, Mat didn't really know anything about the rules for dealing with the 'Finns. He didn't understand that he needed to negotiate a price before he made his requests. Since he didn't negotiate a price in advance, the 'Finns "charged" him the maximum they could.

 

As Trib4l said, being hung was the price he had to pay for what he got in return.

[jkeaves]

Ok, I get that the price was to be hung. And I know that it says "for the price that was paid" or whatever on the spear. HOWEVER, my point still stands: Why would the Eelfinn go through all that trouble making a connection only to kill him? A possible explaination could be that the Eelfinn, like the Aelfinn, have a certain amount of foresight and knew he would be saved by Rand before he died. Still....

[Bob T Dwarf]

Dunno for sure, and don't feel like I understand the 'Finns well enough to make an informed guess.

[Guest Majsju]

Bill Garrett's report of RJ's appearance at Balticon 30 (April 1996) mentions: "(Jordan noted that Mat's death by lightning and subsequent undoing of his death when Rand balefired Rahvin, fulfills a prophecy about living, dying, and then living again.)" Tim Kington reports that, when asked how long Mat had hung from the Tree of Life in Rhuidean, RJ replied, "Long enough to be almost dead" (emphasis mine) [post-COT signing, Dayton, OH, January 16, 2004].

 

So, it is the Caemlyn incident and not the Rhuidean one that fulfills the prophecy. Given that and the reasoning above, it seems that yes, Mat is still linked to the Horn.

 

http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/2_nondark/2.1_taveren/2.1.3_mat-horn.html

[Gidar]

At the time he went through the doorway in Rhuidean' date=' Mat didn't really know anything about the rules for dealing with the 'Finns. He didn't understand that he needed to negotiate a price before he made his requests. Since he didn't negotiate a price in advance, the 'Finns "charged" him the maximum they could.

 

As Trib4l said, being hung was the price he had to pay for what he got in return.[/quote']

 

I remember that very well cuz it's not so long time since I read about it... Who is the daughter Of The Nine Moons by the way? They were talking about her in the doorway in Tear.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Well, since you're only on book 4, I'm not gonna tellya. And, I hope nobody else does either.

 

What I will tell you is that finding out who she is is a big part of the fun of reading the whole series.

[Trib4l]

RAFO.

[CrazyMike]

Maybe,,, Mat makes a NEW DEAL with the Finn,,, and maybe gets 3 new wishes,,, and they demand his eye as payment ,,, the Eye to be used in some arcane way that serves the FINN ,,, what would those 3 New Wishes be???

 

 

Maybe , he gets a way to permanently Seal the BORE to the Dark Lords prison,, and maybe a Way to Heal the Insanity that afflicts Male Channelers who Channeled the Tainted Power of the Source before it was Cleaned by Rand ,,, and maybe he gets Moraines Freedom ???

 

any other suggestions

[CrazyMike]

Maybe the FINN enjoyed the Experience of MATS DEATH or HANGING maybe the panicky struggle as he slowly choked with the weight of his body on his neck streching to the Point of Breaking, oh the agony the Pain the Torment, that is if they were linked to his Brain and could feel his emotions and thoughts,,, if so they do not want him dead they just want him to experience NEW and ENTERESTING things,,, the fiends

[RobertAlexWillis]

Oh boy ....

[moroten]

Oh boy ....

 

Amen to that!

[Gidar]

indeedy

[Arath Faringal]

Here's something that bugs me about the whole hanging deal. Just how did the 'finns pull it off? Could they walk out the arch, string him up, and then go back in? Or did they just sort of 'poof' him out, and there he was dangling on Avendesora? Perhaps some wierd form of compulsion they used to make him go out and hang himself?

 

It always seemed kinda strange to me.