Aviendah's next move

[Coffe_Gurl]

Okay I read Fionwe's reply and I can see where he/she is kinda going. It also made me think of what Rand was thinking while he was relaxing in his own dream toward the end of the last book. He made mention of what he would do if the rulers denied what he wanted from them. If he in fact was thinking about saying if they don't agree to the Dragon Peace then he will not go to SG, then maybe everyone agreed EXCEPT the Aiel. The Aiel would know he would go no matter what and just refuse to agree to a bargain made with a threat. Maybe Aviendha's purpose is to convice the Wise Ones and the Chiefs and the people as a whole to accept the Dragon's Peace. Then again maybe Rand will intentionally not include them because he has been accustomed to the Aiel do not have rulers and will not be ordered to do anything.

Looking forward to last book to see how it all plays out.

[DemandredFO]

It won't be that simple, some WO's and at least on clan chiefhave to be DFs.

[Adam_a.west]

 

And that will set the stage for the Aiel, I think. Rather than being excluded from the Dragon's Peace, they would have been the people who made it possible. I don't think all Aiel will see things this way, but those that do will end up forming an alliance with the Aes Sedai. They will renounce violence and work with the Aes Sedai (who will very soon get back their Brothers, of course) to restore the world from the damage of the Dark One.

 

Agreed. Aviendah may even lead the Aiel back to the way of the leaf after the last battle. She will get with child too.

 

Would like to see her take on a forsaken or anyone/thing short of the DO as well!

[Guest Eragonmorzan]

Has anyone considered that RJ must have given Avi the Talent to recognise ter'angreals for a reason??

 

I agree with the point that she is going to include the Aiel in the Dragon's Peace.

But it is possible that she may just kill herself to prevent the future.

 

But mostly, I think that the Talent of Avi's will play a bigger role. Maybe, as she now knows what may happen, she recognises how the adam works and finds the flaw in it, rendering it useless. This would pretty much destroy the Seanchan way. Or maybe she discovers a flaw and does some serious weaving to render all adams useless at once. (Really hoping that this would happen...!!!)

[Maleshub]

Has anyone considered that RJ must have given Avi the Talent to recognise ter'angreals for a reason??

 

I agree with the point that she is going to include the Aiel in the Dragon's Peace.

But it is possible that she may just kill herself to prevent the future.

 

But mostly, I think that the Talent of Avi's will play a bigger role. Maybe, as she now knows what may happen, she recognises how the adam works and finds the flaw in it, rendering it useless. This would pretty much destroy the Seanchan way. Or maybe she discovers a flaw and does some serious weaving to render all adams useless at once. (Really hoping that this would happen...!!!)

 

She's already identified the dagger Rand will take to Shayol Ghul, the one that hides him from the DO's eyes. That in itself is enough of an achievement and fulfillment of her Talent's purpose.

[TootThatHorn]

Has anyone considered that RJ must have given Avi the Talent to recognise ter'angreals for a reason??

 

I agree with the point that she is going to include the Aiel in the Dragon's Peace.

But it is possible that she may just kill herself to prevent the future.

 

But mostly, I think that the Talent of Avi's will play a bigger role. Maybe, as she now knows what may happen, she recognises how the adam works and finds the flaw in it, rendering it useless. This would pretty much destroy the Seanchan way. Or maybe she discovers a flaw and does some serious weaving to render all adams useless at once. (Really hoping that this would happen...!!!)

 

She's already identified the dagger Rand will take to Shayol Ghul, the one that hides him from the DO's eyes. That in itself is enough of an achievement and fulfillment of her Talent's purpose.

 

has it been confirmed that thats the dagger he has on him? i havent seen that and im of a mind that its just a regular dagger...i think it more likely that doing something to the columns to see the aiel future is a better reason for her to have that talent barring that there isnt a better one in aMoL

[Maleshub]

has it been confirmed that thats the dagger he has on him? i havent seen that and im of a mind that its just a regular dagger...i think it more likely that doing something to the columns to see the aiel future is a better reason for her to have that talent barring that there isnt a better one in aMoL

 

Rand has never worn a dagger before the cover. And if he were to change that during his rendezvous at Shayol Ghul, wouldn't he take a dagger that would be useful to him against the DO?

 

As to confirmation, it isn't possible to confirm that before AMoL is published. So, it is more connecting the dots than facts confirmed by text and interviews.

[TootThatHorn]

has it been confirmed that thats the dagger he has on him? i havent seen that and im of a mind that its just a regular dagger...i think it more likely that doing something to the columns to see the aiel future is a better reason for her to have that talent barring that there isnt a better one in aMoL

 

Rand has never worn a dagger before the cover. And if he were to change that during his rendezvous at Shayol Ghul, wouldn't he take a dagger that would be useful to him against the DO?

 

As to confirmation, it isn't possible to confirm that before AMoL is published. So, it is more connecting the dots than facts confirmed by text and interviews.

 

ya for sure, and im quite aware that i could be wrong about it, my view on it is coming from looking not only at the final cover but also at his sketches, which all show a dagger, which in itself can be proof that its of some importance, but the sketches dont show it to have any qualities of the terangreal dagger or the dreamspike from what i could tell, and its fairly subtle in the final draft, gonna have to wait and see on that one

[GB]

Then consider Egwene's time in TAR just before the Senachan attack. She almost considers, in despair, if she should just permanently split the Tower and start her own faction so she could spend time preparing for the LB instead of the Tower's squabbles.

 

Hey fionwe, good to see you over here at DM. Could you post a quote for the above. I'm blanking on it for some reason. Cheers.

 

hey i was reading that chapter the other day so i think it was in the chapter "News in TAR" TGS, right before she meets Verin and after she talks with Suian Re: Elaida has travelling

[b3arz3rg3r]

Has anyone considered that RJ must have given Avi the Talent to recognise ter'angreals for a reason??

 

I agree with the point that she is going to include the Aiel in the Dragon's Peace.

But it is possible that she may just kill herself to prevent the future.

 

No, Aviendha won't just kill herself to prevent the future. She has no reason to believe that her death would improve the future of the Aiel. So what would be the point? All it would show is that she's unfit to become a Wise One by running away from her duty.

[csarmi]

Well the hell was Aviendha for 40 days? Time was of the esssence and she - one who could travel - disappeared for over a month to take a trip through the rings?

[makaveli422]

What everyone here has not touched on yet is that the whole futere Avi saw I think is based not only on Rand not including them in the Peace but also on the fact that the Empress Fortuona was almost convinced of the wrongness of collaring channelers. I think one of the things she does is try and convince the Empress the error or the Seanchan's ways. If she can do that then the Aiel never need to go to war over the WO. It wouldn't happen until after the last battle of course but it would change the whole future Avi saw.

 

Just my two cents.

[Maleshub]

Well the hell was Aviendha for 40 days? Time was of the esssence and she - one who could travel - disappeared for over a month to take a trip through the rings?

 

Her timeline is 2-3 weeks behind the meeting in the Field of Merrilor. So, we have some catching up to do with her PoV. And that should be in the early stages of AMoL.

[Restausn1]

I think, after the wise ones freak that she went through the ter'angreal a 2nd time, and after some stumbling about, Avi will hear or learn of a song. It will be the song the Tinkers are searching for. Avi will come to the conclusion that the aiel must return to The Way of the Leaf and re-unite with the Lost Ones. That will be very difficult for most of the Aiel to deal with, and the Aiel will split. Aviendha is right, and the remnant of the remnant saved will be those who actually listened to her. I think a lot of the rest of the Aiel, unfortunately, will be used up in the Last Battle.

[TootThatHorn]

i keep seeing people thinking that the aiel are gonna return to the way of the leaf after TG and i really dont see that happening. I cant imagine that their race spends about 6 ages either in servitude or fanatical pascifism...i really see a slow evolutionary process of them becoming fully peaceful again taking an age or 2 at least

[Maleshub]

i keep seeing people thinking that the aiel are gonna return to the way of the leaf after TG and i really dont see that happening. I cant imagine that their race spends about 6 ages either in servitude or fanatical pascifism...i really see a slow evolutionary process of them becoming fully peaceful again taking an age or 2 at least

 

The dilemma they face is finding a purpose after Rand seals the DO. The "Dedicated" have been dedicated to the Dragon's cause for nearly 3K years. They've been shaped and molded to fight with the Dragon in Tarmon Gaidon. With their mission fulfilled, what next?

[Luckers]

I think, after the wise ones freak that she went through the ter'angreal a 2nd time, and after some stumbling about, Avi will hear or learn of a song. It will be the song the Tinkers are searching for. Avi will come to the conclusion that the aiel must return to The Way of the Leaf and re-unite with the Lost Ones. That will be very difficult for most of the Aiel to deal with, and the Aiel will split. Aviendha is right, and the remnant of the remnant saved will be those who actually listened to her. I think a lot of the rest of the Aiel, unfortunately, will be used up in the Last Battle.

 

The Song the tinkers are searching for does not, and has never existed. It's possible Aviendha will discover the Singing, but even if she does the Tinkers wouldn't be happy with it as it would not do what they believe the Song should do--possibly it would even destroy them, taking away the belief and hope that has held them for three thousand years.

[Maleshub]

I think, after the wise ones freak that she went through the ter'angreal a 2nd time, and after some stumbling about, Avi will hear or learn of a song. It will be the song the Tinkers are searching for. Avi will come to the conclusion that the aiel must return to The Way of the Leaf and re-unite with the Lost Ones. That will be very difficult for most of the Aiel to deal with, and the Aiel will split. Aviendha is right, and the remnant of the remnant saved will be those who actually listened to her. I think a lot of the rest of the Aiel, unfortunately, will be used up in the Last Battle.

 

The Song the tinkers are searching for does not, and has never existed. It's possible Aviendha will discover the Singing, but even if she does the Tinkers wouldn't be happy with it as it would not do what they believe the Song should do--possibly it would even destroy them, taking away the belief and hope that has held them for three thousand years.

 

"Singing" in the AoL is similar to Loial's talent of "Tree Singing." If anyone is to teach the Aiel that lost talent, it would be the Ogier. But I don't think that's where the Aiel's post-TG purpose lies.

[Luckers]

Me either--and I doubt the Ogier could teach the Singing because though the two gifts are complimentary, they are not the same. We know the Tinkers tried to learn the Tree Singing and failed.

[TootThatHorn]

i keep seeing people thinking that the aiel are gonna return to the way of the leaf after TG and i really dont see that happening. I cant imagine that their race spends about 6 ages either in servitude or fanatical pascifism...i really see a slow evolutionary process of them becoming fully peaceful again taking an age or 2 at least

 

The dilemma they face is finding a purpose after Rand seals the DO. The "Dedicated" have been dedicated to the Dragon's cause for nearly 3K years. They've been shaped and molded to fight with the Dragon in Tarmon Gaidon. With their mission fulfilled, what next?

right, and i get that...the unfortunate thing, and something no one has touched on yet i believe, is that rand could have left them out intentionally because he knows they are a force that needs fighting, and perhaps in avi's future rand just flat out didnt trust the seanchan and wanted the aiel around to beat them back, so the mission he tried to leave them was war against the seanchan, for the sake of randland. now should avi convince him otherwise or find some peace with the seanchan ahead of time, then maybe he can assign them to be a kind of police force, some peacekeepers or some such...me personally, i would task them with revitalizing rhuidean and bringing it back to its glory.

[Maleshub]

i keep seeing people thinking that the aiel are gonna return to the way of the leaf after TG and i really dont see that happening. I cant imagine that their race spends about 6 ages either in servitude or fanatical pascifism...i really see a slow evolutionary process of them becoming fully peaceful again taking an age or 2 at least

 

The dilemma they face is finding a purpose after Rand seals the DO. The "Dedicated" have been dedicated to the Dragon's cause for nearly 3K years. They've been shaped and molded to fight with the Dragon in Tarmon Gaidon. With their mission fulfilled, what next?

right, and i get that...the unfortunate thing, and something no one has touched on yet i believe, is that rand could have left them out intentionally because he knows they are a force that needs fighting, and perhaps in avi's future rand just flat out didnt trust the seanchan and wanted the aiel around to beat them back, so the mission he tried to leave them was war against the seanchan, for the sake of randland. now should avi convince him otherwise or find some peace with the seanchan ahead of time, then maybe he can assign them to be a kind of police force, some peacekeepers or some such...me personally, i would task them with revitalizing rhuidean and bringing it back to its glory.

 

I don't think Rand could have left out the Aiel. He would not have achieved what he's already achieved without them. And they are the only people that he trusts (more than others was his wording during his dark days). They are dedicated to him and know their destiny and survival is through serving him. He couldn't ask for more "dedicated" followers, who also happen to be the nastiest fighters of their time.

 

The Aiel could still fight after TG; but they would have to do it in the Blight to cleanse and reclaim as much of it as possible. A foreshadowing can be found in the Blight spot that Perrin found in Altara-Ghealdan. The WO's and AS cleansed that spot. So, the Aiel can and should have a purpose, more than one, after TG.

[Demon_AS]

Val, you're confusing strength and hardness. One would think that after Cadsuane and Sorilea pointed out the difference, we wouldn't do that anymore. In all likelihood, the strength Aviendha loves in him isn't his hardness.

Forgive the adolescent lurking within me for chuckling at the fact that Aviendha probably does love Rand's hardness :P. /crass

 

Anyway, I think what Aviendha saw in the ter'angreal isn't so much a vision of the future as it is an answer to the questions that Nakomi planted in her brain before she stepped through the pillars a second time. Given that we don't know what the pillars actually do, my speculation is that they are some sort of guidance tool to be that operate on the principle of those "what if" mirror worlds that Rand encountered in TGH.

 

So, Nakomi forces Aviendha to consider the fate the Aiel... I find it almost too much of a coincidence that Rhuidean provided her with further insight about this very same point. So, what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure she saw the future, exactly. It was just a metaphor, if you will, to help her really understand the issues that she, as a Wise One, should consider before leaping to decisions that could affect the fate of her people.

 

As to what I think she should do next...? Well, for a start, she should ensure that Rand doesn't forget to give the Aiel new purpose following the Last Battle. Secondly, she really ought to raise her kids so that they don't feel so exhalted.

[Guest Delurm]

One of the key points I saw in her visions was the mention that the dragon knelt before the empress of Seanchan. This meant that the Seanchan viewed the dragon and any of his children as less than the empress. That (IMO) is key to how she will change fate.

 

Currently I think if Rand was offered the opportunity for peace and the Seanchan armies to fight at the last battle in return for a kneel he'd take it without thinking of what that means - Aviendah will be able to give him advice which will allow him to refuse to yield to the kneel - that will either put him at equal to the Seanchan empress - or given his ta'veren nature she might even kneel to him - if either happens - it gives him and his children equal rank to the royal family as per the Seanchan rules (as far as I can tell) - this would give his peace the ability to work.

 

The second key point (which others have touched on) is that she will make sure he does not forget the Aiel in his peace, nor will she allow him to forget them in his plans for the future - both points I think need to be met - and if the Aiel are included in the peace - they may very well turn to the way of the leaf.

[Nick Tortorici]

She has to stay alive long enough to raise her children correctly for one. We know they are going to be very powerful in the one power(the books have talked about what happens when two people that can channel have children) and we know that as the dragons line they are going to have major infulance with the clans down the road. Personally I think the key is getting the seachan to let go of their WO they have on the leash. That is what starts the entire war. Also according to what she learned from the rings, the war was totally stalemated entire they involved the other nations, at which point the seachan started making major gains(I am guessing by leashing people capble of using the one power), so if she can make sure that her children know to never get other nations involved, even if they do fight it will be a stalemate most likely.

 

Also there is little to no mention of Matt which is strange considering he is the Prince and will be ruling beside the Seachan leader(assuming they can take back power in their homeland), I would think that Matt would do something to try and uphold the peace his friend made. And maybe that is part of the problem, if the war starts right after the last battle, the nations would still be united behind one common cause, and I think that could turn the tide against the seachan, especially if Rand lives(or given the sheer number of linked channers the light will have(unless something kills a lot of them from the black tower), plus all of the aids to channeling they will have(as you can figure everyone pulls out all the stops for this fight), its going to be a lot of powerful circles going on that could do massive damage. I have no doubt that a large number of ashamen can do massive damage to any army they face. I just think of the group of 50 that held back wave after wave of the shadow for over and hour standing alone.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Avi's next move?

Ahh...find Rand and get jiggy. She still needs to get pregnant. Flipant remark, but true. She might even find time to save a remnant of a remnant of her people in the post coital pillow talk.