Matrim Cauthon

[Samhain]

The Seanchan prophecies were corrupted by Ishamael when he advised Hawkwing, and then later in Seanchan itself. Its ironic that the Seanchan are blinded by the possibility that they are wrong by assuming Randland prophecies are corrupted.

 

Ishamael has "sealed two dooms, (Hawkwing's) dream of one land and one people and a doom yet to come". Obviously, the doom yet to come has to wait a thousand years or so, but he feels it will work by ingraining falsehoods into a disconnected society for such a long time. Those falsehoods could then be powerful enough to shake the will of Ta'veren.

[randsc]

The Seanchan prophecies were corrupted by Ishamael when he advised Hawkwing, and then later in Seanchan itself. Its ironic that the Seanchan are blinded by the possibility that they are wrong by assuming Randland prophecies are corrupted.

 

Ishamael has "sealed two dooms, (Hawkwing's) dream of one land and one people and a doom yet to come". Obviously, the doom yet to come has to wait a thousand years or so, but he feels it will work by ingraining falsehoods into a disconnected society for such a long time. Those falsehoods could then be powerful enough to shake the will of Ta'veren.

 

But wait, wait. That's just Ishamael's interpretation of the impact of his messing with Hawkwing. And, as we all now know:

 

You cannot use an interpretation in a discussion.

[Wantanswers]

A Seanchan is more likely to correctly interpret a Seanchan prophecy than is an Dutchman (or whatever you are).

Strange argument. There doesn't exist any Seanchan who knows more about the Seanchan prophecies as I do.

[randsc]

A Seanchan is more likely to correctly interpret a Seanchan prophecy than is an Dutchman (or whatever you are).

Strange argument. There doesn't exist any Seanchan who knows more about the Seanchan prophecies as I do.

 

 

Do you exist? Are you sure? Life is a dream...

[Wantanswers]

A Seanchan is more likely to correctly interpret a Seanchan prophecy than is an Dutchman (or whatever you are).

Strange argument. There doesn't exist any Seanchan who knows more about the Seanchan prophecies as I do.

 

 

Do you exist? Are you sure? Life is a dream...

Yes, I do exist. But the Seanchan don't. And I dream after having opened Jordans books.

[randsc]

A Seanchan is more likely to correctly interpret a Seanchan prophecy than is an Dutchman (or whatever you are).

Strange argument. There doesn't exist any Seanchan who knows more about the Seanchan prophecies as I do.

 

 

Do you exist? Are you sure? Life is a dream...

Yes, I do exist. But the Seanchan don't. And I dream after having opened Jordans books.

 

You really can't know for sure. Did you take the red pill?

[Wantanswers]

Sometimes we call a thick book a "pil". But I have the English edition and those are black.

[Jblaylock]

Tuon will see the light, so to speak, and Rand will not mind bowing to her. Simple as that.

[yoniy0]

I will say that - while we can't know for sure - several Seanchan thinking that Randland prophecies are corrupted since they don't mention him kneeling to the Crystal Throne make it more likely than not that it's the Seanchan version of the Karaethon Cycle that mentions this, not the Essanik Cycle.

[herid]

I don't know if Rand will end up kneeling before either Mat or Tuon (I rather think that he won't) but in any case I don't think it would be enough to satisfy that prophecy if Rand only kneels to one or even both of them. I don't think it can be said right now that Tuon represents the Chrystal Throne. She might think or claim that she does but the Chrystal Throne is in Seandar which is not currently in her control. Somebody else rules there at the moment and sits on the Crystal Throne, I assume. IMO, to satisfy this prophecy Tuon would need to claim the actual Chrystal Throne. BS said that there will be no major action in Seanchan in aMoL but maybe they might arrange a quick strike via gateways. without that it would be cheating IMO even if Rand does bow to either Mat or Tuon or both.

[Muad Cheade]

I find the thought that Tuon, Rand and company will simply Travel to Seanchan for the purpose of swearing beneath the throne illogical.

[White_star]

This is probably a dumb question but, do we know that the Crystal Throne in Seanchan is the one the prophecy was talking about? Isn't there a crystal throne in Rhuidean?

 

My apologies if this was mentioned before.

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

Well since the prophecy states he will kneel to the Crystal Throne, which Tuon does not have control of at this point, I believe that the "murderer who openly rules in Seandar" is Demandred. I am not saying that he is referring to this in the meeting with Moridin when he states "my rule is secure...", I believe he has his hands in multiple pots at this point and that is why he is the major player for the shadow come AMoL. My theory is that Demandred is now ruling in Seandar and sits on the CT. I keep asking myself what "murderer" could take the CT with so many factions vying for control and why would he/she be referred to as such? The answer is simple: Demandred was working behind the scenes with Semirhage, when she told Suroth that she had killed the Empress(and the entire court IIRC) she pulled the oldest Aes Sedai deceit in the book: a lie by omission. She left out the part where she was linked with Demandred or at least he was there to help wipe the floor clean. So now Demandred is ruling in Seandar and therefore sits on the Crystal Throne. When Rand confronts either the shadow in Caemlyn or at the BT guess who will be there to confront him? Woohoo Demandred finally gets his kill on and partly redeems what has been without a doubt the most over-hyped group of evildoers in any fictional work since well probably ever. In the process of killing Rand, sadly Rand will fall to knees and kneel before the Crystal Throne thus fulfilling the prophecy in a way nobody thought possible. Except Moridin...who is a badass.

[Remy Blobet]

I just have a couple of whacky ideas.

 

Rand will go on a whole spheel about how Aes Sedai are supposed to be "servants to all" and kneels before Tuon. Now I know that Tuon isn't physically a Crystal Throne, but it seems that when dealing with prophecies, one needs to be a little bit flexible. I could be wrong but the Crystal Throne may be reffering to Tuon. The exception though is that he will only serve if Seanchan gets in on the Dragon's Peace. Rand pretty much can make any nation do whatever he wants (otherwise they'll be defeated by the Dark One). So maybe Rand will threaten (in a sense) the Seanchan that he will not fight unless they get rid of the whole Damane and Sul'dam system.

 

Another idea is that Rand will bind the daughter of the Nine Moons through the use of some sort of a'dam thus killing two birds with one stone. It would fulfill a prophecy and destroy the Seanchan's slave-like culture.

[Muad Cheade]

Well since the prophecy states he will kneel to the Crystal Throne, which Tuon does not have control of at this point

She is still the ruler of the Seanchan, atleast on this side of the Aryth. For example, the "Lion Throne" is used to reference the Queen of Andor just as the "White House" is used to refer to the Execuive Branch of the United States, specifically the President.

 

I believe that the "murderer who openly rules in Seandar" is Demandred. I am not saying that he is referring to this in the meeting with Moridin when he states "my rule is secure...", I believe he has his hands in multiple pots at this point and that is why he is the major player for the shadow come AMoL. My theory is that Demandred is now ruling in Seandar and sits on the CT.

Personally, I doubt it. ToM implies that the continent is still in the throes of civil war yet Demandred's statement came in the previous book. Granted, the two books are overlapping in the timeline. We do know that Demandred, Semirhage and Mesaana were in alliance with each other, yet if Demandred was involved with the Seanchan as well, I don't believe Moridin would have believed that he was innocent in the attack on Rand. I do think you're right about Demandred dabbling in different arenas.

 

I keep asking myself what "murderer" could take the CT with so many factions vying for control and why would he/she be referred to as such?. The answer is simple: Demandred was working behind the scenes with Semirhage, when she told Suroth that she had killed the Empress(and the entire court IIRC) she pulled the oldest Aes Sedai deceit in the book: a lie by omission. She left out the part where she was linked with Demandred or at least he was there to help wipe the floor clean. So now Demandred is ruling in Seandar and therefore sits on the Crystal Throne.

Or it could have been a nobleman/noblewoman who simply seized Seandar. I guess it's possible Demandred was involved yet there is no evidence to support that.

 

When Rand confronts either the shadow in Caemlyn or at the BT guess who will be there to confront him? Woohoo Demandred finally gets his kill on and partly redeems what has been without a doubt the most over-hyped group of evildoers in any fictional work since well probably ever. In the process of killing Rand, sadly Rand will fall to knees and kneel before the Crystal Throne thus fulfilling the prophecy in a way nobody thought possible. Except Moridin...who is a badass.

Are you serious? For one, it is illogical that an entire army of Seanchan are Darkfriends or would be willing to fight alongside Shadowspawn so Camelyn is out of the mix. That is the same reason why Demandred is most likely not King Roedran of Murandy. Secondly, the same goes for him convincing the army to fight alongside male channelers and marath'damane. Thirdly, from Aviendha's vision we know that Rand actually does kneel to Tuon herself. Finally, what would be the point in Demandred bringing the Crystal Throne over the Aryth Ocean? To prove his legitimacy? Showing up with a Seanchan army would do that.

[Kestrel]

As so many people have pointed out, the Seanchan prophecies were twisted beyond recognition by Ishamael. Fortuona's beliefs that Rand must kneel before her and her throne are based on a bunch of lies.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Mat blow the Horn of Valere again, bringing Artur Hawkwing down to confront his precious little empress. I fully expect Hawkwing to clear up a few misconceptions Fortuona has about Rand, the Last Battle, and their mutual roles. Hawkwing himself is probably the only person who could convince her.

[Sharaman]

You mean she'd defer to her dead great-great-great^n grand-dad? The Seanchan royals are brought up to kill family not to indulge in ancestor worship.

[Capering Capers]

You mean she'd defer to her dead great-great-great^n grand-dad? The Seanchan royals are brought up to kill family not to indulge in ancestor worship.

 

I think you'll find they worship the previous generations, including their mother the empress may she live forever. It is sibling competition, not patricide/matricide. I definately think they are brought up to, at the very least, consider Art?ur Paendra?g (spelling?) to be as close to holy as to make no difference.

[Muad Cheade]

The Seanchan know that Hawkwing and the others fought against them and for the Dragon Reborn, yet that didn't faze them. I doubt Hawkwing appearing to them would do anything. Or Rand giving her Justice for that matter.

 

And that really is not ancestor worship by the way.

[Suttree]

This is probably a dumb question but, do we know that the Crystal Throne in Seanchan is the one the prophecy was talking about? Isn't there a crystal throne in Rhuidean?

 

My apologies if this was mentioned before.

 

Anyone know the answer to the post above? Can't recall if there was one in the great plaza in Rhuidean and don't have the book handy...

[Aquarius]

This is probably a dumb question but, do we know that the Crystal Throne in Seanchan is the one the prophecy was talking about? Isn't there a crystal throne in Rhuidean?

 

My apologies if this was mentioned before.

 

Anyone know the answer to the post above? Can't recall if there was one in the great plaza in Rhuidean and don't have the book handy...

Don't remember too, but that's the kind of things people would've seen by now. We know about the Seanchan prophecies since book 5 or so. Some crasy re-re-re-reader would have spotted that by now.

[Muad Cheade]

There was a red, crystal chair in Rhuidean. Chapter 58 I believe.

[Suttree]

There was a red, crystal chair in Rhuidean. Chapter 58 I believe.

 

Good man Muad.

 

Would be shocked if the prophecies didn't refer to the Seanchan Crystal Throne but it is an interesting catch.

[heliage]

Rand won't kneel. At most he will do a bow like he did to Egwene that was described as shallow and more a tip of the head. Zen like Rand still knows where he stands in the world and couldn't afford to do a lower bow (or kneel) to someone of a similar position.

[Aquarius]

Rand won't kneel. At most he will do a bow like he did to Egwene that was described as shallow and more a tip of the head. Zen like Rand still knows where he stands in the world and couldn't afford to do a lower bow (or kneel) to someone of a similar position.

Zen Rands will do what must be done... he'll do it if he believe it's worth it.