The ending

[Kestrel]

An essential part of figuring out "How it ends" is knowing who survives the Last Battle.

 

The Last Battle losers:

The Dark Lord loses. Min tells Cadsuane says that her visions will only come true if the good guys win. If the Dark Lord wins, the pattern itself will be unravelled and all creation will be obliterated. However RJ was planning to write Outrigger novels covering some post-Last Battle events, therefore the world itself has to survive. (Of course, the Outrigger novels might have covered alternate endings instead, but I hope not.)

 

The Last Battle survivors I know of:

Elayne. She's still only halfway through her pregnancy, and Min says her babes will be born healthy.

Aviendha. Min says she will give birth to quads, and she's not pregnant yet.

Mat and Tuon. One of the proposed outrigger novels has them returning to Seanchan together. Also, RJ allegedly said the last scene in AMoL has Mat and Aviendha standing together looking over the aftermath of the battle.

 

Who else survives that we know of?

 

I didn't get to attend any of the Cons or Book Signings, so I'm not up to speed on RJs hints and clues.

[DocBean]

I've been one of the believers that Rand Will somehow kill the Dark One.

... and since you need a Dark One to begin another age, they you'll need someone to fill his place.

 

Fain will be the next Dark One. He represents all things Evil, including an Evil alien to the Dark One's evil, so he's a perfect fit to become "The Dark One"

 

 

I don't get why people believe the Dark One is some force that cannot be destroyed.

Gods can be killed, and in this case that's what the Dark One wants. The suicidal bastard.

 

edit to add: Remember Moridin paused when Rand said he planned on killing the Dark One.

He said it was a ridiculous thought, but I think he actually considered the possibility in that moment.

I believe Moridin considered the fact that killing the Dark One would actually destroy time itself, which is what the Dark One wants.

He just doesn't believe it's possible, but we've seen a lot of things happen that the Forsaken didn't believe possible.

[Kestrel]

I've been one of the believers that Rand Will somehow kill the Dark One.

... and since you need a Dark One to begin another age, they you'll need someone to fill his place.

 

Fain will be the next Dark One. He represents all things Evil, including an Evil alien to the Dark One's evil, so he's a perfect fit to become "The Dark One"

 

 

I don't get why people believe the Dark One is some force that cannot be destroyed.

Gods can be killed, and in this case that's what the Dark One wants. The suicidal bastard.

 

edit to add: Remember Moridin paused when Rand said he planned on killing the Dark One.

He said it was a ridiculous thought, but I think he actually considered the possibility in that moment. I believe Moridin considered that killing the Dark One would actually destroy time itself, which is what the Dark One wants.

The WoT universe is one built on duality and opposites. Yin-yang, male-female, good-evil, push-pull. To have a creator without a Dark Lord opposite would leave the universe out of balance. So yes, I agree, there has to be a Dark Lord for the universe to continue.

 

I don't agree that the Dark Lord can be killed. The Dark Lord is either an immortal or a creature who has lived so long without sustinence that it's difficult to claim he's not immortal.

 

What I think is going to happen is the remaining Forsaken will get killed, and Fain/Mordeth gets hurled through the bore into the Dark Lord's prison. Fain hates the Dark Lord as much as he hates Rand, so Fain and the Dark Lord will immediately launch into a battle with each other, giving Rand enough time to properly re-close the bore.

 

RJ did say that Fain/Mordeth was something new, a "wild card" that did not exist in prior ages.

 

Fain/Mordeth is not really a person; he's a man-creature who is the embodiment of the worst of men's evil, all gathered together in one being. It's a different kind of evil that the Dark Lord's because it is composed primarily of the selfishness of men who have rejected both the Goodness of the Light and the Allure of Serving the Dark Lord, and chosen to go their own way instead. [We could also suppose there exists Mordeth's opposite, a man-creature who is the embodiment of altruism. But unless that one is Rand al'Thor I don't think we've seen him.]

[DocBean]

I've been one of the believers that Rand Will somehow kill the Dark One.

... and since you need a Dark One to begin another age, they you'll need someone to fill his place.

 

Fain will be the next Dark One. He represents all things Evil, including an Evil alien to the Dark One's evil, so he's a perfect fit to become "The Dark One"

 

 

I don't get why people believe the Dark One is some force that cannot be destroyed.

Gods can be killed, and in this case that's what the Dark One wants. The suicidal bastard.

 

edit to add: Remember Moridin paused when Rand said he planned on killing the Dark One.

He said it was a ridiculous thought, but I think he actually considered the possibility in that moment. I believe Moridin considered that killing the Dark One would actually destroy time itself, which is what the Dark One wants.

The WoT universe is one built on duality and opposites. Yin-yang, male-female, good-evil, push-pull. To have a creator without a Dark Lord opposite would leave the universe out of balance. So yes, I agree, there has to be a Dark Lord for the universe to continue.

 

I don't agree that the Dark Lord can be killed. The Dark Lord is either an immortal or a creature who has lived so long without sustinence that it's difficult to claim he's not immortal.

 

What I think is going to happen is the remaining Forsaken will get killed, and Fain/Mordeth gets hurled through the bore into the Dark Lord's prison. Fain hates the Dark Lord as much as he hates Rand, so Fain and the Dark Lord will immediately launch into a battle with each other, giving Rand enough time to properly re-close the bore.

 

RJ did say that Fain/Mordeth was something new, a "wild card" that did not exist in prior ages.

 

Fain/Mordeth is not really a person; he's a man-creature who is the embodiment of the worst of men's evil, all gathered together in one being. It's a different kind of evil that the Dark Lord's because it is composed primarily of the selfishness of men who have rejected both the Goodness of the Light and the Allure of Serving the Dark Lord, and chosen to go their own way instead. [We could also suppose there exists Mordeth's opposite, a man-creature who is the embodiment of altruism. But unless that one is Rand al'Thor I don't think we've seen him.]

 

Well this certainly wouldn't be the first time an author has written about a mortal god, and in fact I believe that is the main reason why Brandon Sanderson was chosen to finish this story.

I believe that Harriet was impressed by how similar Brandon's Gods were to Jordan's, and figured he would understand Jordan's world the best.

[PhoenixUK]

herid fel said "Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build."

 

the latter was easily guessed - even lews therin realised it a long time ago in his mutterings that the seals need to be broken before the Prison could be restored rather than just patched over.

 

But what does he mean by the first? What does it have to do with "let the lord of chaos rule"?

 

It all ties in to why Moridin is obsessed with keeping Rand alive until the last battle rather than just having him killed. He wants Rand there but crazy and destructive. I think somehow the state of the world itself will determine whether rand has the power to defeat the dark one

[Alternate34]

What snippets of information do we have?

 

We know you can't just seal the Bore or you have the opportunity for taint. We know that the seals must be broken.

 

We might know that people cannot use the One Power to recreate the prison perfectly. This could be wrong, maybe Rand figures out a way to combine saidin and saidar in a way those of the Age of Legends didn't know and recreates the prison. I think this is unlikely, but it is possible.

 

What I think is more likely is that the Pattern can repair itself. We have evidence of this. Balefire does not permanently alter an Age for all turnings of the Wheel. The next time the 2nd and 3rd age come up, the previously balefired threads can be woven again in the future. (At least I am pretty sure that is true. An expert could help me out here.) In general, the Pattern is woven over time. I think the Pattern repairing itself is the most likely way the problem is fixed.

 

The question is, what is the problem then? Why hasn't the Pattern re-woven? The easiest answer is that the seal has been present. The Pattern cannot weave where the patch is. It's why the rubble must be cleared. You can't build a solid foundation unless the rubble is gone.

 

However, a problem with this theory of self repair is why didn't the Pattern self repair during the End of the Age of Legends. The War of Power lasted some years. If it couldn't self repair then in that period of time, how would it self repair now?

 

I have a few theories regarding this. First, the Dark One can effect the Pattern. Second, the Dark One was new to Age of Legends folks when the Bore was drilled. They had little idea what they were dealing with. The Dark One may have been holding the Bore open. When Lews Therin and crew sealed the bore, they may have done so as the Dark One held it open, meaning the counterstroke occurred because they tried to do too much. Perhaps Rand might force the Dark One out of the Bore but not attempt to seal it, instead letting the Pattern heal itself.

 

How would the Pattern heal itself? Again, more theory, but the Pattern is made up of threads. Those threads are souls, ta'veren being very powerful souls. We know Perrin and Mat must be alive for Rand to succeed. As ta'veren, all three could bend the threads of the Pattern to seal the Bore. This still leaves out the role of Callandor. That is what I will present next.

 

I can think of two things that Callandor could be used for. It could be used to bump the Dark One out of the Bore. This still leaves the problem of saidin touching the Dark One but maybe it was not only touching the Dark One that caused the problem but also sealing the Dark One while touching him. Maybe Padan Fain acts as the bumper if using the One Power doesn't. Maybe belief and order of the threads (souls) bent by ta'veren push back the Dark One ala Ghostbusters II. I have another idea for Callandor as well.

 

The Pattern is woven by the Wheel of Time. The Wheel of Time is spun by the flow of the One Power. In order to speed up the self healing, perhaps Rand with his circle of two women could spin the Wheel faster to create more threads and help seal the Bore. Since Callandor lacks a buffer, Rand can channel a limitless amount of the Power at the cost of his life. So, while Padan Fain or the threads bent by ta'veren through belief and order force the Dark One back, Rand and his women churn the Wheel and the Bore seals.

 

I could go on with this to try to make predictions, so why not. Maybe the women Rand must choose must be willing to let Rand die. I would think this leaves out those who really care for him, though maybe some are pragmatic enough to see it through. I would think this leaves out Aviendha or Elayne (though Elayne's pregnancy already eliminated her probably). Nynaeve is unlikely, though she can be surprisingly pragmatic. Alivia would be quite clearly a choice. She has no strong attachment to Rand. She also has alot of power, which would be helpful. Maybe Lanfear/Cyndane/Mierin is an option because of her complex relationship with Rand/Lews. Maybe she harbors anger toward the Dark One because she finds out his true goal of unraveling the Pattern rather remaking it. OK, I'll stop now.

[Elan Tedronai]

Nicely done. A theory i fully agree with which is plausible particularly the bit where you said the DO must be pushed back through the bore to allow the pattern to self heal.

 

 

Hmph i think i now know the reason for the lack of buffer in callandor. It was intentionally built like that. And this could be vital for rand to seal the bore.

[capuga]

Nicely done. A theory i fully agree with which is plausible particularly the bit where you said the DO must be pushed back through the bore to allow the pattern to self heal.

 

 

Hmph i think i now know the reason for the lack of buffer in callandor. It was intentionally built like that. And this could be vital for rand to seal the bore.

 

Per RJ, the flaw in Callandor was a manufacturing defect. It may end up being helpful in some way to Rand but it wasn't intentional.

[capuga]

Here's the quote:

 

Knife of Dreams tour 28 October 2005 - Jason Wolfbrother reporting

 

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

JWB: Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

[Elan Tedronai]

hmph. but i still think callandor will play a massive part in the sealing.

 

 

One thing is clear.

 

1)The bore was kept opened by the great lord. That's why the pattern could not close the prison itself

2) when LTT and co placed the seals with saidin, they came into contact with the great lord and that's how it got tainted. Which explains why RJ said that if the women joined in with LTT's plan they it would have been disastrous.

3) to seal the prison properly you need it to go back to it's original state of play before the drilling

4) to do that, the seals must be broken

5) The one power must be used without touching the dark one or it be tainted again. But it must be used.

5) the great lord's influence around the bore must be pushed back.

6) allow the pattern must be healed around the bore.

7) Prison then is healed and is shut.

 

 

The million dollar question is what is that allows the great lord to be pushed back which allows the sealing process to be done and the pattern healed. I can only think of callandor at this point. The flaw in callandor seems to be too coincidental. That flaw is likely going to help rand in the sealing. The key word here is buffer not flaw. Buffer against the great lord when he realises what is happening and he attempts to stop it.

[quick ben]

How's rand goin to seal the bore?

 

LTT used saidin last time and it led to you know what. If the women joined him in his plan it would have led to even greater disaster.

 

There is no Choedan kal anymore. so how is he going to seal it this time?

 

I can't see any other way than using the power and if the power is used it runs the chance of being tainted like last time.

 

I can't help but think that Shaidar Haran is involved in some way and some how.. as well as Ishamael obviously because of his link to Rand

Fain's invovlement is valid.. but i'm unsure to what extent he will be invovled.

RJ and BS are going to bring it.. and it will be awesome and something that no-one really thought of.

 

My vote: Dark one sealed away.. prison made hole again.. how..? no bloody idea!

[Alternate34]

 

The million dollar question is what is that allows the great lord to be pushed back which allows the sealing process to be done and the pattern healed. I can only think of callandor at this point. The flaw in callandor seems to be too coincidental. That flaw is likely going to help rand in the sealing. The key word here is buffer not flaw. Buffer against the great lord when he realises what is happening and he attempts to stop it.

 

I think that there are a few options for something to push the Dark One out of the Bore.

 

(1) Padan Fain. He still has some significance in the story. The evil of Shadar Logoth is destructive to the Dark One. Touching Padan Fain to the Dark One might cause both to recoil, allowing the Pattern to be rewoven. His presence is also a difference between the Third Age and the Second Age.

 

(2) Belief and order give strength. The threads themselves could strengthen the Pattern and seal the Bore, pushing the Dark One back. The ta'veren are integral to this. They inspire people and give them hope. Think of the loyalty that Rand, Mat, and Perrin command. It is a reason they could be needed, to give the people strength. The presence of ta'veren might be a difference between the Third Age and the Second Age. Additionally, and this is more speculative, the difference could be that in the Second Age, the people were without hope and divided against one another. Their strike against the Dark One was a desparate gambit. The lack of technological advancement and the concordant struggle of Third Agers might have strengthened them for this moment.

 

(3) Callandor. Immense power with no limit as long as the person channeling doesn't mind dying. The only thing that bothers me about Callandor being the missing element in forcing back the Dark One is that channelers in the Age of Legends should have come up with "Push the Dark One back with an immense amount of the Power." They knew a lot about channeling and they knew alot about the Pattern. They didn't have alot of info on the Dark One, but neither do Third Agers really. This could be where Lanfear comes into play, giving vital information about the Dark One because of her intimate associations with it.

 

One problem with any theory is that all knowledge of WoT metaphysics we have is cloaked in metaphor. Rand poured some Shadar Logoth and taint into a tube of the One Power and destroyed both. Can he do something like that with a person's actual thread? Does Padan Fain have to be around Shayol Ghul? Do the ta'veren? The relationship between something's physical location and its representation in the thread world is not well explained. It is by intuition that the characters guide themselves through it. An intuition we have no direct access to.

[Randommer]

Well...here's my theory, for what it's worth.

We know the prophecies will be fulfilled somehow, and in...uhh...one of the books, our attention was drawn (courtesy of Min) to the line 'Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be siezed. I think this is a reference to the TP, seeing as how the TP is literally the DO himself (at least according to LTT in TGS). I don't think Rand using it in TGS was simply to facilitate his slide towards the darkside - I think it will have a bigger role to play. And if defeating, or getting defeated by, the DO has to take place inside Rand himself then it may explain why the Shadow was always so determined that Rand make it to the LB. Maybe the DO can't win without defeating Rand at SG. This would explain some very bizarre comments RJ made way back in the day, but anyway.

So yeah, basically I think Rand will draw all the TP into himself, much as he did with the OP when cleansing the taint, and use Fain to neutralise it like he used Shadar Logoth. Or something. I dunno.

[sumquy]

How would the Pattern heal itself? Again, more theory, but the Pattern is made up of threads. Those threads are souls, ta'veren being very powerful souls. We know Perrin and Mat must be alive for Rand to succeed. As ta'veren, all three could bend the threads of the Pattern to seal the Bore. This still leaves out the role of Callandor. That is what I will present next.

 

i too have thought that for a long while. i think, though, that the pattern has been trying to heal itself ever since the bore was drilled and at this point the seals are the only thing keeping it open. if rand breaks/removes the last seal(s)? (how many are left now?) then the bore will close itself. how quickly or slowly that is is a question, and how much can the d.o. accomplish while it is open is another.

 

i think the d.o. sees this as a more long term struggle. he could have had rand killed a hundred times over throughout the series, but he chose not to. i think for the d.o. to win rand/lews therin/light champion has to choose to free him. we saw rand's frustration and anger almost drove him to that place at the end of t.g.s. if not for the veins of gold he might have gone there. okay, so the d.o. knows that, at worst, rand will come and seal the bore and he will lose this time, but...."the wheel of time turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again." he will get another chance. he only has to win once, old ishy/moridin is right about that.

[Guest sladeraccoon]

Of course, the three ta'veren will need to be there in the end, and I imagine there's some way for Rand to link through Mat and Perrin when using Callandor. The similarities between the Pattern and the One Power -- one being threads and one being weaves -- can't be a coincidence. That will probably come out in the end. Rand will probably, as the most powerful ta'veren while linked to the other two, shape the Pattern around the Bore, or at least something to that extent. I imagine I will be pleasantly surprised no matter how it ends, though.

[mb]

How's rand goin to seal the bore?

 

LTT used saidin last time and it led to you know what. If the women joined him in his plan it would have led to even greater disaster.

 

There is no Choedan kal anymore. so how is he going to seal it this time?

You are assuming that Rand would be the one.

My guess would be that it would be someone else since Rand would die in the pit.

 

How would the bore be sealed?

Treesinging might be one way.

Or a portion of the remaining Light-sided channelers would create a giant seal.

 

 

Edit:: They did not use the Choedan Kal the first time. There was not even time to test it.

[PhoenixUK]

i just remembered something else rand said - he said to min that things would be different this time because of the people in his life - mat and perrin, tam, min. I don't know if he means different from Lews Therin in the 2nd age, or different from any other iteration of the 3rd Age.

[Mats Spare Hat]

In contrast to the previous 'Strike at Shayol Ghul', things will be different this time around. In this iteration, the combined powers of the ta'varen, the presumed alliances between nations & forces will lead to the victorious result of what will be thought of as 'The Lucky Strike at Shayol Ghul'

 

...It'll be so memorable they name a brand of cigarettes after it - which will be invented post-TG, when the surviving heroes declare a need for handier means of getting their fix, without having to carry a pipe.

 

*slow nodding

[Elan Tedronai]

How's rand goin to seal the bore?

 

LTT used saidin last time and it led to you know what. If the women joined him in his plan it would have led to even greater disaster.

 

There is no Choedan kal anymore. so how is he going to seal it this time?

You are assuming that Rand would be the one.

My guess would be that it would be someone else since Rand would die in the pit.

 

How would the bore be sealed?

Treesinging might be one way.

Or a portion of the remaining Light-sided channelers would create a giant seal.

 

 

Edit:: They did not use the Choedan Kal the first time. There was not even time to test it.

 

 

somehow i get the feeling that rand will not die at the last battle. He will probably go into hiding and live out the final years in some place reminising about the good ol days

[Sleeper]

How's rand goin to seal the bore?

 

LTT used saidin last time and it led to you know what. If the women joined him in his plan it would have led to even greater disaster.

 

There is no Choedan kal anymore. so how is he going to seal it this time?

You are assuming that Rand would be the one.

My guess would be that it would be someone else since Rand would die in the pit.

 

How would the bore be sealed?

Treesinging might be one way.

Or a portion of the remaining Light-sided channelers would create a giant seal.

 

 

Edit:: They did not use the Choedan Kal the first time. There was not even time to test it.

 

 

somehow i get the feeling that rand will not die at the last battle. He will probably go into hiding and live out the final years in some place reminising about the good ol days

I agree with you that it's likely Rand won't die, and I'm both glad about that (he's my favorite character) and slightly disappointed. I honestly think the ending would work best if he died at the end, it would provide the most bittersweet and emotional fulfillment to the series, and would work much better than him living his days in obscurity with Min in a different body or some other BS.

[DPT24]

Shadar Harran could be the key. If he's sort of the avatar of the dark one, what happens if he's killed, especially after the seals are broken and the dark one's touch is even stronger??? My guess is that the non channelling characters (Lan, Mat, Perrin, Gawyn, Galad, Faile, Brigette, Rurharc, Bain, Chaid, Gual, or Itrandele?) will end up having to kill Shadar and/or Fain and that will hurt the dark one badly (not kill it, just shock it) and then the bore can be sealed. Fain might end up killing Shadar, or Shadar will end up subverting Fain back to the dark one. After all, Fain can kill a Mydrayal on touch while Shadar Harran can control darkfriends.

[mb]

The Prophecies seem to indicate that Rand would die during Tarmon Gaidon.

 

Though I think Rand would become resurrected sometime after.

Balefire might be one way.

A technique similar to construct making might be another way.

[Master of Germs]

Well, I have always had the feeling that T'A'R will have a major impact on the ending. If I remember correctly Verin was talking to Egwene in TDR and she said that there is a paradox: If the Dark One frees in one world, he is freed in all others, and if he is stays sealed in one world he is sealed in all others. Then Verin introduces T'A'R and says it is the third constant value besides the DO and the Creator. TAR surrounds all other worlds and is inside all of them.

So my theory is that the major mistake in AOL was not that only saidin was used (I believe that if saidar was used alongside it would finished tainted, as well), but the fact that sealing happened in the real world only. I think that the sealing can only be constant, if it is done in the real world and in TAR at the same time. If the DO is freed in the real world he will be free in all worlds, but if the bore is sealed in TAR it will be sealed everywhere. I assume that the DO must be freed ("you need to clear the rubble" by Herid Fel)

So, "clearing the rubble" in the real world, then immediate entering TAR for resealing is also a possibility...

I don't know if it has been discussed, I haven't seen such a theory while lurking in the forum. It just occurred to me last night, so I need some time for research and purification.

[Nightstrike]

T'a'r is part of the Wheel. The DO and the Creator are outside the Wheel.

 

Shaidar Haran is not a true avatar of the DO. It's just a projection. Killing SH would hardly kill the DO. I think the DO is impossible to kill by any means. He/she/it will live forever.

[randsc]

Hopefully, the ending won't be different.

 

Two nominations for last lines that I think would be exceptionally cool:

 

"I have won again, Lews Therin."

 

and;

 

flicker