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The Worst Move by the Dark


Mr Hindley
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  1. 1. Which is the single stupidest move by a bad guy?

    • Balthamel being killed by a vegetable
    • Aginor incinerating himself
    • Be'lal being suprised by Moiraine
    • Moghedien being captured by Nynaeve
    • Lanfear going postal in Cairhien
    • Mesaana not realising she was losing against Egwene and ending up braindead
    • Semirhage going up against Rand with a handful of damane
    • Semirhage pausing to torture Rand instead of taking him straight to Shayol Ghul
    • Sammael being ambushed by Mashadar
    • Osan'gar getting blasted by a lowly Black Ajah
    • Aran'gar giving the game away by channeling near Narishma
    • Moghedien's attack on Nynaeve in Ebou Dar being thwarted by... pigeons


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The Forsaken. Love 'em, hate 'em, or just wonder where they are, their story is near an end now after entertaining us with their antics and, in most cases, deaths, for thirteen books. They've had moments of genius, but a fair few moments of idiocy as well. But which one really deserves the dunce's cap?

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how bout moridin telling rand that if you balefire ppl DO can't transmigrate them?

 

or how bout when moridin interfered in that sammael fight in book 7 and then gives an order to kill rand in book 9? i could list so many dumb shit the baddies made but it would take me the whole day.

 

 

But in all fairness it's all part and parcel of jordan always making the good guys truimph always over evil. He never gave a

chance to the baddies. Like how GRRM has done with ASOIF.

 

The bad guys in WOT are cartoonish type villains now. All talk and no substance

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Most of these are not the Forsaken's fault. Thefore, are not stupid moves by them.

 

The stupidest (in this list) was Semirhage indulging herself instead of travelling straight to SG.

 

The rest are just bad coincidences or other characters getting the upper hand.

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Gotta agree with Elan Tedronai here, Moridin's idiotic statement that balefire pawns tops the list. You could argue that he wanted the Dragon to use balefire to destabilize the pattern or to further the turning him to the dark side plot...but it was a very thick thing to do.

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Lanfear going nuts in Caihrien was pretty stupid.

 

Though Moggy getting herself captured by Nyneave wasn't to smart.

 

Or Balthamal getting killed by a plant.

 

Or... there's just too many too mention.

Really? These are the people that everyone's so scared of?

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I'd have to go with Aran'gar channeling in front of Narishma. S/he also came VERY close to being outed when s/he tried to attack Mat in Book 6.

 

Many of the others aren't really "what an idiot" moments, IMO.

 

Someshta was very powerful, and Balthamel underestimated him. That's pride, not stupidity

Aginor had just gotten loose, I equated his death to an athlete who just recovered from an injury, and overexerted himself too quickly.

Osan'gar was killed by Elza, in a circle, with the second most powerful Sa'angreal on the planet. AND he admits himself that he never was a fighter. Honestly, I'm surprised he survived as long as he did.

Be'lal was in a catch-22. If he ignored her, he would get a faceful of balefire. If he turned to her, he would have eaten Callandor.

Moggy giving herself up to Nynaeve was a serious contender for my vote, too.

Lanfear was not in her right usual standard state of mind at the time. She was emotionally compromised.

I never really understood what happened to Mesaana.

As for either of Semirhage's entries, the damane seem to receive similar combat training to the Asha'man. If she brought more, Rand would not have shown up without setting the place and everyone in it on fire. As for the torture, she needed to break him. Like he was immediately after Semirhage's death, there's no way he would win the LB. Her actions made sense, IMO.

Sammael was another contender. He's the one who gated to SL in the first place. WHY would he have ignored the biggest danger in the place?

Moggy's failed attempt on Nynaeve was seriously dumb luck. She had every reason to believe her balefire would work.

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I have always thought that Rand killed Aginor. So I asked Brandon about it, and he says he's pretty sure that Rand killed Aginor. He may be wrong, but I have never understood why people were so quick to assume that he overdosed.

 

I picked Sammael but only because I stopped reading there. I might have picked Aran'gar if I'd read that far. Pretty dumb. Trusting Graendal was even dumber.

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Semirhage prolonging Rand's taking to torture him.

The oldest mistake in the villain hand book.

 

Dont think Semirhage prolonging for the torture was a dumb. She would never have guessed that he could access the True Power. Never in a million years. (Although, what bothers me is why his bonded chicks didnt come running. With him attempting to kill Min, it surely would have been felt through all the bonds. I fully expected to read about a rescue party before the True Power incident. I mean Aviendah was in camp. Elayne could have travelled, and Alanah, dunno where she was???).

 

On the other hand, Semirhage going up against Rand with a handful of damane is DUMB. You're up against the strongest channeller the world has known and you take a few chanellers who CANT link. DUMB.

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Although, what bothers me is why his bonded chicks didnt come running. With him attempting to kill Min, it surely would have been felt through all the bonds. I fully expected to read about a rescue party before the True Power incident. I mean Aviendah was in camp.
She could feel his pain. She’d felt it during Semirhage’s attack, too, though at first she’d mistakenly thought it to be a nightmare. She’d quickly realized that she was wrong. No nightmare could be that terrible. She could still feel echoes of that incredible pain, those waves of agony, the frenzy inside of him. Aviendha had raised the alarm, but not quickly enough.
Rand was a roiling ball of angst in addition to being in chronic pain from his physical wounds, which apparently made him so constantly uncomfortable for his feelings to be a meaningless indicator.
On the other hand, Semirhage going up against Rand with a handful of damane is DUMB. You're up against the strongest channeller the world has known and you take a few chanellers who CANT link. DUMB.
I'm not sure why you think that it's dumber to discount the idea that modern channelers would have paralis-nets than to discount that your evil master is planning to sacrifice you. Semirhage might very well have captured Rand had Cadsuane's ornaments not destroyed the Illusion; that she was enough of a slave to her desires to be predictable made her a useful pawn, which was far stupider. And it's not like she's unaware of the possibility:
If the Great Lord meant to make al’Thor Nae’blis, she herself would kneel to him—and wait for a slip to deliver him into her hands. Immortality meant infinite time to wait. There would always be other patients to amuse her in the meantime. What troubled her was Shaidar Haran. She had never been more than an indifferent tcheran player, but Shaidar Haran was a new piece on the board, one of unknown strength and purpose. And one daring way to capture your opponent’s High Counselor and turn it to your side was to sacrifice your Spires in a false attack. She would kneel if need be, for as long as need be, but she would not be sacrificed.
Oops.
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I think Semirhage waiting to take Rand to SG was realy the only "dumb" move the rest were just mostly bad timing bad luck and a serious lack of coperaton/communacation with the other forsaken. Lanfear getting emotional at the docks was a close second to that, but in her defence there should have been no way for anyone to slap her down, as strong as she was and with the angreal to boot - mo pushing her in the redstone doorway could never have crossed her mind. was a mistake anyone would have made in a highly emotional state.

 

I voted for Moggy; allowing herself to be captured was the worst move made - it seriously empowered the Aes Sedai. First, it showed them that despite their reputation the forsaken are still human (mostly showed the supergirls... but that's more then ample) Second, she taught them some AoL weaves that paid off in spades - she made them more difficult then they needed to be but showed them none the less. Third, she gave them some insight to the other forsaken - who was alive, dead etc. It all turned out to be bad news for her. (I wonder if in retorspect she should have got stubbron let the AS kill her and be transmigrated?? Hmmm)

 

Balthamel being killed by the green man (while disappoining) was not unexpected - was the first book afterall, and he was "sleeping" for 3000 years, most of the others deaths were Rand related - and while not particularly satisifying were not without some merit. I also see some people picking on Morridin for telling rand about the balefire thing - i'm pretty sure that he has a greater plan that we haven't been informed of yet. I think there is more to Morridin then we are seeing, the other forsaken are scared of him (and were even before he became nablis) for a reason. - or possibly he really is insane and still thinks he's the dark one...

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I have to go with Semirhage's "trap". Rand's been cutting through Forsaken like a hot knife through butter and she comes at him with what was, at best, a chance at a fair fight. Now, if she'd sent some kind of signal when he arrived and Demandred, Mesanna and a couple hundred Black Ajah bamfed it to start firing while someone activated a dreamspike to keep Rand from running away, then that would have had the makings of a half decent plan. As it was, it was just silly.

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Not really, it was a solid plan on her part. Convince Rand that all was fine and dandy, then during the talks raise her arms in frustration or any other hand gesture towards Rand, and slap a domination band around his neck. Then use Rand to take out his own channelers, who wouldn't dare kill him or her because of the A'dam feedback. All it would require is decent skill at sleight-of-hand and illusion to disguise the Domination band so Rand doesn't see it until it's too late.

 

Unfortunately for Semi, she didn't count on Caddy having a paralis-net, nor did she count on Rand's ta'veren luck. Admittedly, not counting on the Ta'veren luck is pretty silly, but it's impossible to make a foolproof plan, so you just have to risk using a good plan.

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Looking at the long term ramifications, I have to say that Lanfear did the biggest Oops. Sure, some of the others are deadm, but Lanny went from having a free hand to scheme and do as she pleases, being the most UBER HAWT and Powerful to kinda hot in a my sisters best friend kinda way, kinda strong with the power, and forever a prisioner. From the suffering aspect of knowing what once was, I'd say WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

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Ishy not killing Rand in T'A'R in EoTW ranks pretty high.

 

I understand why he didn't, but doing it would have saved the Shadow a whole lotta grief.

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Someshta could hold back the Blight, so he must have been pretty powerful. Balthamel probably wanted to watch him burn, and underestimated him. Typical bad guy failing :myrddraal:

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I think that we miss the most important point (about bad guy mistakes). They are all human. They make mistakes and ignore following logic and reason, just like all of us :smile:

Which makes them all the better.

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