Mordeth/Fain is something NEW

[bsmnt23]

Has anyone else thought that the mention of Mordeth/Fain as (I havent the exact quote here, forgive) "something that had never before existed in any previous turning ove the Wheel" as in any way significant? When drawing Lord of the Rings paralels, Mordeth is a great analogue for Gollum, and Gollum it was who actualy destroyed the Ring (albeit unwittingly). My theory is Mordeth will have a very significant part to play in the climax. I see it as a three-way duel between Rand, Mordeth and Shaidar Harran (or Moridin, he might want a rematch for when Rand killed him to death as Ishmael), (or even Demandred, but realy, what a lackluster fight that would be; Demandred's such a [hides behind a stone wall] do-nothing emo putz ).

 

Any Ideas? Input? Insults? Anyone? Anyone?

[moratcorlm]

Fain will not end up like Gollum.

[Val Mickey]

There is one of those theories which propose Fain to be the buffer between the DO and the pattern. It's crazy enough to be not so crazy. I'd like to think that Fain is one of the two dead men in Min's viewing, but Fain is more likely to survive a three way battle.

[Elend]

We've known for awhile that Fain is something new. Most theories related to this involve either a permanent seal on the Dark One or actually destroying it and/or the Wheel and making time linear as opposed to cyclical.

 

But he is, indeed, something new. A wildcard.

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm fairly sure that Fain was eaten by some monsters in the Blight shortly after the prologue and we're never going to see or hear from him again in the series.

[mbuehner]

Its interesting that he is something new (and I honestly do think that fact will have an impact on the end of the series), but to play devils advocate- there should be 'new' things with every turning of the wheel. IE- random perturbations pop up with every turning, but they are different and unpredictable every time.

[RedVanilla]

I think he might be important to sealing the Dark One permanently, but I'm not sure how yet. But he still has a role to play, him and his dagger, of that I am sure.

[blueeys54]

I completely agree, I think that he will actually be the one to defeat Shaitan, then the Collander circle will seal Fain in the bore with Shaitan. This will burn Rand out because he no longer has the buffer. Im just rolling on this one, but I think that part of this will be true.

[Dysaster]

Fain becomes the new dark lord......how, not a clue.

[cgk84]

How will Fain react to Rand's new 'I-can-make-darkfriends-gouge-out-their-eyes-and-leap-from-buildings' power? I know that Fain is far, far more than a darkfirend, or even human, but I keep thinking of the line about how no-one can stand so long in the Shadow that they cannot return to the light. What are the odds on a (partial) redemption of Fain when/if he comes face to with Rand and the Dark One? Or that when faced with both at the same time it turns out Fain's hatred for the Dark One is (just about) stronger than for Rand and he works against the Dark One?

[Darth Krewl]

Fain will not end up like Gollum.

 

Right. He'll end up as Agent Smith in the Matrix ;-D

[Jillain Sanche]

I do not have the book with me to pull the relevant quotes, but in that passage he essentially used mashadar to "turn" the trollocs to a zombie-like state. Go back and read that part again! I do not believe this would be there if we had seen the last of him.

 

Now Gollum was corrupted by the Ring Sauron created. He is not Gollum in that sense. He's more of a rogue evil element.

But, you may have something when you speculate if he may have a role to play in the end like an evil wild card opposed to the DO (and everyone else).

 

So, is he something new? He has been corrupted from that which corrupted Aridhol from within; so something new in this Age perhaps--a new manifestation of an ancient evil.

[Fable]

 

So, is he something new? He has been corrupted from that which corrupted Aridhol from within; so something new in this Age perhaps--a new manifestation of an ancient evil.

 

Remember, he's not just corrupted by the same thing that corrupted Aridhol. He was first corrupted by the Dark One. That was the start of his compulsion to find Rand. It was the initial taint PLUS the later corruption that essentially turned him into Mordeth and made him something new outside of the normal pattern. One might think Rand's wound holds some similarities to Fain.

[RedVanilla]

I think those wounds of Rand's have a part in the Sealing, too. I'm expecting one of them to break open when he gets to Shayol Geol, "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Goul." Then again, it could mean Elayne goes into labor on the rocks, but I'm thinking the wounds breaking open are more likely.

[nophone]

They better do some really cool shit with fain. he's like the coolest bad guy of all time.

[Val Mickey]

They better do some really cool shit with fain. he's like the coolest bad guy of all time.

 

On a slightly related note, Isam/Luc is just the best Two-Face ever.

[jemron]

I think Fain is new, but Mordeth is not. Mordeth is the DO's "ancient enemy" is he not? The problem is that Fain is a combination of both Mordeth AND the awful distillation that Fain received from the DO. This is what is new.

 

But, maybe it isn't even new. Maybe Fain just doesn't know that he is going to become the new DO since the current DO will be destroyed and need to be replaced...

[akira.taylor]

I think those wounds of Rand's have a part in the Sealing, too. I'm expecting one of them to break open when he gets to Shayol Geol, "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Goul." Then again, it could mean Elayne goes into labor on the rocks, but I'm thinking the wounds breaking open are more likely.

 

Elayne is only about 4 months pregnant at this point. It really is hard to remember that, isn't it? (I know it seems like she should be close to giving birth to me, what with how long it has been since Winter's Heart (that is where she got pregnant, isn't it?) was published.)

[Guest The Wreckoning]

Fain becomes the new dark lord......how, not a clue.

 

 

1st post here, but I've been saying for years that Fain will be the new Dark Lord. Rand has insisted too many times that he will Kill the Dark Lord in the Last Battle for it to just be a figure of speech. I think that he will (alone/Helped by other Light Heroes, or with help from Fain) kill the Dark Lord, giving everyone in the future the false hope that the Dark Lord if forever gone. But the act of killing the Dark Lord will include Fain being locked away to eventually be the new Dark Lord in the future turnings of the Wheel.

[RedVanilla]

It does seem like Elayne has been pregnant forever, but I guess knowing the day of it actually happening just made it stretch out really long. Seems like she should be more like 5 or 6 months along.

Fain will have some major part to play with sealing the Bore, but what or how...the idea that he becomes the new Dark One is pretty good, actually. He's gotten some sort of dark evil power...and Verin said the DO's motivations are hard to figure out, and Fain rarely seems to make sense, except for hating Rand. So...if Fain is the DO, trapped outside of time in the Bore...does that mean Fain will be meeting his future self when Rand opens the Patch?

[Jblaylock]

Rand, Fain/Mordeth, and the DO show up to fight each other at the same time. Then all of the Forskins show up (intentional misspelling), then Rand's buddies show up to fight the Forsaskins, there's a big battle, Fain, Rand and the DO fight each other, Demandred reveals himself and his hoards in an attempt to destroy Rand, Moridin balefires Demandred because he wants the privilage of killing Rand, Rand and Moridin fight, Fain and the DO fight harder, and both of them fall back into the prison, Rand finishes off Moridin and seals the bore, Taim kills Rand, then reveals that he was actualy Demandred's twin brother.

[Xader]

Rand, Fain/Mordeth, and the DO show up to fight each other at the same time. Then all of the Forskins show up (intentional misspelling), then Rand's buddies show up to fight the Forsaskins, there's a big battle, Fain, Rand and the DO fight each other, Demandred reveals himself and his hoards in an attempt to destroy Rand, Moridin balefires Demandred because he wants the privilage of killing Rand, Rand and Moridin fight, Fain and the DO fight harder, and both of them fall back into the prison, Rand finishes off Moridin and seals the bore, Taim kills Rand, then reveals that he was actualy Demandred's twin brother.

 

I knew someone besides me had to have seen RJ's notes!

[Canis Rufus]

Not to get to existential here but I have a thought with Fain. First the concept of the creator being pure light has always sort of bothered me on a philosophical level. As has been quoted throughout the books there is no light where there are not shadows. By this and other unrelated writings (worldly art of wisdom and Humes’ and Kant’s works) there can be no purely good thing and by the same regard there can be no purely evil thing. That considered then the “Creator” and the DO for all likely iterations must be one and the same, TO A DEGREE. However, if we look at the heave Christian elements that run through this book I do not think it much of a stretch to think that the DO is a “fallen” ‘Dragon.’ Bear with the terminology as I use it for representation of the prior iterations of the wheel not the person. My point is that the DO was a ‘Dragon’ of some age the got corrupted by power or abused it ect ect. This Dragon sought to challenge the creator and was basically cast out of the pattern for his actions. This created an imbalance to the light and darkness, as the creator must be both by default this “DO” would now be tipping the scales. So the pattern now has a need to balance so the whole ‘dragon’ thing really starts. So when we have an age of legends that was all super peaceful so the bore was opened to balance. Now I only explain all this to get to Fain. The pattern has now been woven to support this concept of darkness and the creator is being forced into a pure light side to balance the dark of the DO. So the pattern is creating a “chaotic evil” to balance the spinning of Lawful Good. I think the bore will be sealed and the DO (bear with me) will turn back to the light. This will leave a void for the pattern that Fain will fill in a more official capacity less as a DO but more an extension of the creator. Hopefully I worded this so it makes sense. I realize the concept is a bit existential but to me it fits the classical design of most myths.

[AnimusMessor]

I'm fairly sure that Fain was eaten by some monsters in the Blight shortly after the prologue and we're never going to see or hear from him again in the series.

He killed the worms then the fist of trollocs and mydraal and turned them into zombies...

[outsider2222]

Has anyone else thought that the mention of Mordeth/Fain as (I havent the exact quote here, forgive) "something that had never before existed in any previous turning ove the Wheel" as in any way significant? When drawing Lord of the Rings paralels, Mordeth is a great analogue for Gollum, and Gollum it was who actualy destroyed the Ring (albeit unwittingly). My theory is Mordeth will have a very significant part to play in the climax. I see it as a three-way duel between Rand, Mordeth and Shaidar Harran (or Moridin, he might want a rematch for when Rand killed him to death as Ishmael), (or even Demandred, but realy, what a lackluster fight that would be; Demandred's such a [hides behind a stone wall] do-nothing emo putz ).

 

Any Ideas? Input? Insults? Anyone? Anyone?

 

I agree, I tend to think "three become one" viewing is something like DO, Rand And Fain merge into one being/entity at the end of MoL ....