Discuss Rand

[Zodd]

Guess I wasn't very clear with my earlier post. The Light the DFs see when Rand is around/channeling is a byproduct of him having ascended

[Hatrel]

What we have to recall is that the Seanchan prophesies have been corrupted by Ishy. The fact that Fortuona expects Rand to kneel to the CT is because Ishy wanted to mess with her and make the DR's life miserable as a result. There is a high likelyhood that it will not happen as it is not a true prophesy and that something else very dramatic is going to instead.

 

If for some crazy reason, Rand were to submit to the CT, then everyone that has sworn to him would also be sworn to the CT. That is where people will go apesh!t. This will also drive a deeper wedge between Egween and Rand.

 

Overall there just is not enough pages left in the series for there to be too much drama. I think that Rand, Mat and Perrin will Ta'veren everyone and viola! instant world army.

 

OK, so maybe not that easy, but it will be the first time that all three Ta'veren will be together since Tear, and even then I do not think that we saw all three in the same room. We already know what each of them are capable of when their Ta'veren juice is cooking those around them. Rand is the most powerful ever, and honestly, Mat and Perrin are not all that weak. It is going to be an interesting read.

[Cornelia]

Didn´t he have the memories of the Dragon incarnation before him?

 

No, I don't think LTT had any inclination of there even being a Dragon before him. Looking back at the Prologue to EotW, Ishy mentioned that the two of them were spit out again and again by the Wheel, but I don't LTT's thoughts (the POV was LTT's) echoed this at all. Of course, in the Prologue, LTT was bat-nuts, but I think if he was aware of a Dragon before him he'd at least have reacted to Ishy's comment.

 

That´s why I go back every time I read a new WoT book and read the prologue again. And it always struck me, when LTT wails "Light forgive me! Ilyena!" and the Light reacts to him. And then the end of the prologue: Dragonmount lies waiting. Now we know what it was waiting for. For the Dragon to come back and call upon his memories and the Light.

 

But it was known in the Age of Legends that LTT was the Dragon Reborn. He flew the Dragon banner and everything. How did they know that? I mean, they had forgotten the DO in that sphere. Or is Dragon Reborn a title that also changes with the turns of the Wheel?

[FossMaNo1]

But it was known in the Age of Legends that LTT was the Dragon Reborn. He flew the Dragon banner and everything. How did they know that? I mean, they had forgotten the DO in that sphere. Or is Dragon Reborn a title that also changes with the turns of the Wheel?

 

Perhaps the "Dragon" was more a title based on an old myth (memories become legend, and legend become myth sort of thing...) that fit the role LTT was playing as the greatest military commander for the forces of the Light. It wasn't intended by LTT or his contemporaries to be a literal fulfillment of the role of the Dragon (reincarnation and so forth), however the Wheel wove LTT into the position--this was no happy coincidence, but rather force from the Pattern itself on the Wheel.

 

Just an idea...

[johthohar]

But it was known in the Age of Legends that LTT was the Dragon Reborn. He flew the Dragon banner and everything. How did they know that? I mean, they had forgotten the DO in that sphere. Or is Dragon Reborn a title that also changes with the turns of the Wheel?

 

In the AoL he was simply known as the Dragon. And I suspect that it was either a title of their creation or taken from prophecy. Lews Therin is never referred to as the "Dragon Reborn". The reason Rand is is because LTT was thought of as the original Dragon and Rand is LTT reborn into this age. I would guess that the names for the Champion of the Light change over time as the cultures of the Ages change and the prophecies change to reflect whatever new title is assigned to him.

 

@babuada: You're logic is all over the place and you're over-the-top enthusiasm (read: obsession) is borderline nauseating. Maybe calm down just a little bit. Lay off the crack or something ya know? Lol And I LIKED Rand in this book. Can only imagine how your posts read for the non-Rand fan club members.

[babuada]

@babuada: You're logic is all over the place and you're over-the-top enthusiasm (read: obsession) is borderline nauseating. Maybe calm down just a little bit. Lay off the crack or something ya know? Lol And I LIKED Rand in this book. Can only imagine how your posts read for the non-Rand fan club members.

I understand that people got used to Rand bashing and could not bear the shock of his change. This new Rand not only points out flaws in the old Rand but also to the other characters as well. This also helps bring the good part of characters around him in day light, like Cadsuane. We knew she was not completely like other pretend AS. But now you have a measure of comparison in the difference of reaction to judge how good she was and still is.

 

Also, there are important clues in the behavior of new Rand (although we are handicap not having his own POV). e.g., consider Maradon, his effect was only on the dark side. He is making concious effort to not do any harm to anybody on the side of Light. IMO he avoids BT because of this reason. Look at his emotion at Borderlander meeting. We can read this through Min. There is pain but no anger. His anger is directed to Dark side only. He is leading the Light side by example.

[Elan Tedronai]

rand al thor will not die. No major character will die in WOT.

 

rand will retire after sealing the bore for good with his 3 wives. Egwene and logain will assume the leadership of Aes Sedai.

[nolirion]

 

rand will retire after sealing the bore for good with his 3 wives. Egwene and logain will assume the leadership of Aes Sedai.

Yes well and Matt is going to stop dicing with everybody .

[babuada]

 

rand will retire after sealing the bore for good with his 3 wives. Egwene and logain will assume the leadership of Aes Sedai.

Yes well and Matt is going to stop dicing with everybody .

Except Dark One (I mean Tuon)

[DemandredFO]

and I have a bridge to sell

[babuada]

rand al thor will not die. No major character will die in WOT.

 

rand will retire after sealing the bore for good with his 3 wives. Egwene and logain will assume the leadership of Aes Sedai.

Regarding sealing the bore, it is not a bore at a place. It is defined as a thinness of the pattern more thin at someplaces than others. It seems by definition the whole pattern has to be heeled.

[Hopefire]

But it was known in the Age of Legends that LTT was the Dragon Reborn. He flew the Dragon banner and everything. How did they know that? I mean, they had forgotten the DO in that sphere. Or is Dragon Reborn a title that also changes with the turns of the Wheel?

 

Perhaps the "Dragon" was more a title based on an old myth (memories become legend, and legend become myth sort of thing...) that fit the role LTT was playing as the greatest military commander for the forces of the Light. It wasn't intended by LTT or his contemporaries to be a literal fulfillment of the role of the Dragon (reincarnation and so forth), however the Wheel wove LTT into the position--this was no happy coincidence, but rather force from the Pattern itself on the Wheel.

 

I pretty much agree with that. Mythologically speaking, dragons are powerful, crafty and fierce beings far beyond the power of normal human beings. I figure that it's a nickname that stuck, because it was meant to stick.

[nolirion]

But it was known in the Age of Legends that LTT was the Dragon Reborn. He flew the Dragon banner and everything. How did they know that? I mean, they had forgotten the DO in that sphere. Or is Dragon Reborn a title that also changes with the turns of the Wheel?

 

Perhaps the "Dragon" was more a title based on an old myth (memories become legend, and legend become myth sort of thing...) that fit the role LTT was playing as the greatest military commander for the forces of the Light. It wasn't intended by LTT or his contemporaries to be a literal fulfillment of the role of the Dragon (reincarnation and so forth), however the Wheel wove LTT into the position--this was no happy coincidence, but rather force from the Pattern itself on the Wheel.

 

I pretty much agree with that. Mythologically speaking, dragons are powerful, crafty and fierce beings far beyond the power of normal human beings. I figure that it's a nickname that stuck, because it was meant to stick.

I taught "The Dragon" was the title of the champion of Humanity it is just common lore it Wot . It was given to Ltt in The War of the power as he was the one leading the fight against the Do tittle he did not like if i recall.

The Dragon in fact is a recurrent soul in the pattern it is how The Do always refer when he spoke about Rand

[babuada]

Oh, I agree. And I'm not saying I don't like ZenRand (who is really Rand 5.0; Rand 1.0 was a HeroRand, Rand 2.0 was ConquerorRand, Rand 3.0 was CrazyRand, Rand 4.0 was DarkRand, and Rand 5.0 is ZenRand). ZenRand is a great payoff for the progressively darker actions of Rand over the course of the the series. Rand's increasing darkness made him interesting, the same way that Egwene's negative qualities make her interesting. Rand's character arc has had a payoff; Egwene has yet to have one herself.

Thanks Hopefire for this quote from Egg thread

[FarShainMael]

Could this light be Moridin's choseness(for lack of a better word) interacting with Rand's nature and that's why the light is so bright. Chosen might have a light around them

 

I doubt it. Being under the Shadow, they are far more likely to have a dark aura, such as we have already seen in Darth Rand.

 

I want to know how Rand's Light is affecting Moridin.. withe the close connection between them, will it drive him mad? Or has that connection been broken? If so, what effect did that have on Moridin?

[Cornelia]

But it was known in the Age of Legends that LTT was the Dragon Reborn. He flew the Dragon banner and everything. How did they know that? I mean, they had forgotten the DO in that sphere. Or is Dragon Reborn a title that also changes with the turns of the Wheel?

 

In the AoL he was simply known as the Dragon. And I suspect that it was either a title of their creation or taken from prophecy. Lews Therin is never referred to as the "Dragon Reborn". The reason Rand is is because LTT was thought of as the original Dragon and Rand is LTT reborn into this age. I would guess that the names for the Champion of the Light change over time as the cultures of the Ages change and the prophecies change to reflect whatever new title is assigned to him.

 

Yes, that makes sense. I never considereed LTT just being called Dragon, not Dragon Reborn...

[Entreri]

Very impressive showing by Rand, he has grown to the be most powerful channeler ever. One who can break through a shield held by 13 channelers, which is supposed to be impossible for even the strongest male channeler.

 

Is that because of his access to the True Power? I do not think so. Since the shield is already on, it would require raw strength to break through a shield held by that many.

 

Just to emphasize his new found strength he destroys a titanic Trolloc Army, at least numbering well over 200,000, possibly up to 1/2 MILLION. Ituralde was certain only the Seanchan had any hope of taking on that massive Trolloc Army. What Rand did would normally require a sa'angreal.

 

According to the Asha'man that was viewing battle "I've never seen so many weaves at once. I can't track them all".

 

This Rand would have defeated Lanfear with her very powerful angreal (nearly a sa'angreal according to Moraine), without having to resort to balefire. So the regular Forsaken would be DOA (dead on arrival) if they were to fight him one-on-one. Ishamael is a different story, True Power and he may well have a strong sa'angreal stashed somewhere.

 

 

As to what Powers he can access: True Power, One Power and may be the True Power from the Creator (what happened to the apples, the Light around him, the veins of Light that Nyanaeve sees in his mind).

 

 

 

He is still permanently linked with Ishamael, I wonder if the DO knows about this? We see that the Forsaken do and can keep secrets from the DO.

[nolirion]

Very impressive showing by Rand, he has grown to the be most powerful channeler ever. One who can break through a shield held by 13 channelers, which is supposed to be impossible for even the strongest male channeler.

 

Is that because of his access to the True Power? I do not think so. Since the shield is already on, it would require raw strength to break through a shield held by that many.

 

Just to emphasize his new found strength he destroys a titanic Trolloc Army, at least numbering well over 200,000, possibly up to 1/2 MILLION. Ituralde was certain only the Seanchan had any hope of taking on that massive Trolloc Army. What Rand did would normally require a sa'angreal.

 

According to the Asha'man that was viewing battle "I've never seen so many weaves at once. I can't track them all".

 

This Rand would have defeated Lanfear with her very powerful angreal (nearly a sa'angreal according to Moraine), without having to resort to balefire. So the regular Forsaken would be DOA (dead on arrival) if they were to fight him one-on-one. Ishamael is a different story, True Power and he may well have a strong sa'angreal stashed somewhere.

 

 

As to what Powers he can access: True Power, One Power and may be the True Power from the Creator (what happened to the apples, the Light around him, the veins of Light that Nyanaeve sees in his mind).

 

 

 

He is still permanently linked with Ishamael, I wonder if the DO knows about this? We see that the Forsaken do and can keep secrets from the DO.

Maybe he could broke is shield because of is Paralisis net .

[Entreri]

I would say very likely no. While LTT wore a male paralis net, there is absolutely no description given of Rand wearing one. From what is shown, I would say that Rand's base Power levels have increased from the maximum male level.

 

We see that the Finns/Alefinn siphon off Power, thus reducing the max Power levels of channelers (Lanfear, Moraine). Thus, the innate maximum level of Power one can draw on can change. Then it should not be entirely impossible that somebody's base level could increase as well. Rand's enlightenment in Dragonmount or possibly due to drawing on so much of the Power (enough to destroy the world in 1 shot) could have done something to him.

 

With the Choden Khal destroyed, Rand would need 'other weapons' in order to overcome the Shadow, having the entirety of LTT's One Power knowledge is insufficient. He has far too many powerful, 'unique ability' enemies (Shadar Haran, Ishamael wielding the TP, Fain with his talents). So he has the ability to use the TP, Light abilities (may be Creator base True Power, becoming a mini-Creator) and I think his base strength has increased beyond the norm as well.

[nolirion]

I would say very likely no. While LTT wore a male paralis net, there is absolutely no description given of Rand wearing one. From what is shown, I would say that Rand's base Power levels have increased from the maximum male level.

 

My bad I tough he wore one yet I don't think their is a male maximum level in the power .

But I don't think he as the ability to overcome a full shield by the power it as more to do with him been the dragon , in a sense that he do not bend the pattern to is will but the pattern won't allow him to be undone by Light forces .

[Jyxxer]

So I had a thought today about the Finn's telling two of our boys they need to die if they want to live.

 

At first I was skeptical about Mat's prophecy spoken to him about dying. Throughout the series he thinks to himself that he's pretty sure he's already died. (Whether he is referring to the hanging or balefire is uncertain) It seemed he never really 'died' when he was hung, and the balefire surely wasn't what the Finn's were talking about... or was it?

 

My new theory on Rand dying to live is this: He will be fighting Moridin, the only person trying to stop rand on the Metaphysic level, as well as trying to seal the bore. During their fight, Fain will sneak up on Rand and finish him off brutally with the dagger. Someone (my guess will be Moiraine or Logain, or even perhaps Caddy) will be leading a circle and unleash massive amounts of balefire to kill Fain. They succeed, forever burning Shadar Logoth evil from the Pattern frorever, but so much balefire at Shayol Ghul will make the bore sealing that much harder.

 

Unless all three ta'veren really do die, and they are all brought back by the Horn of Valere, though that'd be kinda lame.

[Bubbs1873]

I had a thought about "binding the nine moons to serve him".

Did Moggy not say that using the male A'dam would end in a fight for control between the male and female channeler, and therefore could the three that use Callandor not be Fortuona Rand and Nyn linked by the collar and bracelets of the male A,dam.

 

Any thoughts.

 

 

You may call me Rand Sedai.

[Jyxxer]

I had a thought about "binding the nine moons to serve him".

Did Moggy not say that using the male A'dam would end in a fight for control between the male and female channeler, and therefore could the three that use Callandor not be Fortuona Rand and Nyn linked by the collar and bracelets of the male A,dam.

 

Any thoughts.

 

 

You may call me Rand Sedai.

 

I think Moggy or whoever was talking about it while the girls were in Tanchico was saying that, it takes two women to control, but because of the way it and the taint are, eventually the taint would seep into the women using the bracelets too. They need to constantly rotate women to avoid that, which means letting someone else control the adam... Which no one wants to do.

[Bubbs1873]

I had a thought about "binding the nine moons to serve him".

Did Moggy not say that using the male A'dam would end in a fight for control between the male and female channeler, and therefore could the three that use Callandor not be Fortuona Rand and Nyn linked by the collar and bracelets of the male A,dam.

 

Any thoughts.

 

 

You may call me Rand Sedai.

 

I think Moggy or whoever was talking about it while the girls were in Tanchico was saying that, it takes two women to control, but because of the way it and the taint are, eventually the taint would seep into the women using the bracelets too. They need to constantly rotate women to avoid that, which means letting someone else control the adam... Which no one wants to do.

 

 

 

I'm sure Moggy said words to the effect of you will need him to remove your bracelet as surely as he needs you to remove the collar iirc.

 

The whole conversation just seemed to much of a setup not to have later significance.

[Entreri]

I would say very likely no. While LTT wore a male paralis net, there is absolutely no description given of Rand wearing one. From what is shown, I would say that Rand's base Power levels have increased from the maximum male level.

 

My bad I tough he wore one yet I don't think their is a male maximum level in the power .

But I don't think he as the ability to overcome a full shield by the power it as more to do with him been the dragon , in a sense that he do not bend the pattern to is will but the pattern won't allow him to be undone by Light forces .

 

 

Since the women seem to have a maximum Lanfear said "no woman can be stronger", Aes Sedai in Egwene's camp thought incorrectly Sharina may be as strong as a woman can become, then the men will have one (LTT/Ishamael level).

 

Yes, his ta'averness has gotten more pronounced, so it is possible, but given what Egwene said and how he completely owned that massive Trolloc army, I would wager a strength increase.

 

This is what Egwene said "I....I had the sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle".