Verin's Letters

[Dasmarius]

Is no one interested in where the HoV is hidden?

 

As far as I know, it's still in the White Tower; I don't remember if it was in the same room as the Shadar Logoth dagger was, when Fain retrieved it, but if not, they've got a lot of secret rooms around there.

[blazetheearth]

Is no one interested in where the HoV is hidden?

 

As far as I know, it's still in the White Tower; I don't remember if it was in the same room as the Shadar Logoth dagger was, when Fain retrieved it, but if not, they've got a lot of secret rooms around there.

 

It was not in the same room. Only 2 people are named with the books with possession of the knowledge of whre in the WT it is hidden. Suian and Verin. The Horn has not been mentioned first hand since that scene in TDR after Mat was Healed of the Dagger. Fain thinks about looking for it, but they were not stored together, and Aliviarin interrupted him before he could search for it.

[Guest Shadow of light]

I just have one thought that I want to throw out there. Was Verin truly repenting from the shadow. I know she handed over the black ajah, but in my opinion what better way for a true dark friend to be able to influence the soldiers of the light. Especially if Verin believes the DO is going to win, I mean what is death to a true dark friend when the do is the master of the grave. I'm not saying that this is what I believe but its just a thought that crossed my mind after having gone through and re-read the series again and I was wondering what people thought.

[moratcorlm]

I know she handed over the black ajah, but in my opinion what better way for a true dark friend to be able to influence the soldiers of the light.

To do... what?

[MattTaz]

A nice pick up on Mat weighing Moiraine and Verin on a balance scale. Much better than Teslyn and Joline.

 

Given the way the timeline jumps around I think we may see Joline & Teslyn inform Eggy of Mat's request and that

also he is married to the Seanchan Empress. I reckon Siuan gave it to Egwene and she has it at the FoM

[RahulSingh]

Galad moved directly toward Rand across the tent, his movements fluid and grace evident. 'He moves like a Warder,' she thinks to herself. That, of course, was impossible, Galad would never agree to be bonded to any Aes Sedai now. 'A pity,' she thinks.

Rand just stood there watching him approach, as calm as he always was now. His eyes never leaving Galad's, neither broke that gaze, even after the Whitecloak stopped in front of Rand. Silence ruled the tent now, though many covert glances passed among the assembled nobles. As the seconds passed, and the tension built, she could feel her Warder's slight dread creeping through the bond. That thought made her own tension rise watching these two men gazing into each others eyes. From their manner though it truly didn't seem as though there was any tension in the gaze of either man. They were not glaring at each other, and not staring, but not blinking either. Their eyes were not moving at all. No one in the tent was moving any more, some weren't even daring to breathe, and, realizing that she was one of the latter, she slowly released the breath she had been holding, slowly and quietly, hoping no one noticed.

Suddenly both men spoke and moved as one. "Brother!" both said, softly but with emphasis, as they clasped forearms and both smiled slightly.

'What?' she thought, mind racing furiously, 'What could they possibly mean by that?" she wondered. A quick glance around the tent showed a kaleidoscope of astonished faces, not a one of the other Aes Sedai at the meeting had been able to control her features any better than she herself had. That thought made her recover her outer calm immediately, but could not stop her mind from whirling like dust funnel.

 

 

Where did this come from? you wrote this part using ur imagination? or is it a quote from somewhere?

[Byzantine279]

It seems to be his, or someone else's, idea of what happens when Rand and Galad meet. Though it does have one flaw, Galad has no idea that Rand is his half-brother. Though it would certainly interest him if Rand chooses to share it.

[csarmi]

The Verin/Moiraine situation really doesn't fit the prophetic requirement of Mat choosing between two AS. Maybe it was intended to be that, but I'm going to need to see a better argument or a BS quote before I accept that, and if it is the case then what is in the books really fails to get that across. After all, if Mat had opened the letter, he would have gone to Elayne. If she agreed to destroy the Waygate, his work is done. Within a morning, even. It doesn't take away from his mission to the ToG. If she doesn't agree to destroy it, but does allow Mat to put extra guards on it, then Mat can put the Band on the Gate, and leave Talmanes in charge while he goes to the ToG. There is absolutely nothing stopping him doing both. Nor did Mat see it as rescue Moiraine or do what Verin says - he just doesn't want to do what Verin says. So it is not one or the other, and if that was the intention then the writing failed to convey that.

 

And why not? He DOES choose between two Aes Sedai. He doesn't know what's in the letter. So his choice is: go for Moiraine (and then deal with Verin's letter), or risk opening Verin's letter (and may not be able to go for Moiraine at all).

 

It seems to be his, or someone else's, idea of what happens when Rand and Galad meet. Though it does have one flaw, Galad has no idea that Rand is his half-brother. Though it would certainly interest him if Rand chooses to share it.

 

The point is that THAT was in the letter Verin gave Galad.

[blazetheearth]

 

It seems to be his, or someone else's, idea of what happens when Rand and Galad meet. Though it does have one flaw, Galad has no idea that Rand is his half-brother. Though it would certainly interest him if Rand chooses to share it.

 

The point is that THAT was in the letter Verin gave Galad.

 

Exactly. Since I think that the info about the Galad/Rand relationship was the info the Verin passed to Galad in his letter, this was my dreamland scenario of something I would like to see happen at FoM. It wont happen, but I would love to see the reaction of everyone else gathered there to watch.

[DanBirchett]

Presuming anything Aviedha saw in the Rhuidean actually comes to be, it seems very unlikely that Andor or Caemlyn will fall. She sees a future vision of her offspring dealing directly with the Queen of Andor remember? How can that happen if Andor is obliterated? Alos, if Andor does get obliterated, would this not negate the truth Avi supposedly learns about the future? Paradox!

[Finnssss22]

Presuming anything Aviedha saw in the Rhuidean actually comes to be, it seems very unlikely that Andor or Caemlyn will fall. She sees a future vision of her offspring dealing directly with the Queen of Andor remember? How can that happen if Andor is obliterated? Alos, if Andor does get obliterated, would this not negate the truth Avi supposedly learns about the future? Paradox!

 

Caemlyn aint gonna fall. You have one of the best support characters in the book there to hold the city in Talmanes along with an armed to the teeth, medallioned Olver ready to kick some ass.

The Band and the Dragons save the day.

They will hold till help arrives imo.

[Ananta]

Presuming anything Aviedha saw in the Rhuidean actually comes to be, it seems very unlikely that Andor or Caemlyn will fall. She sees a future vision of her offspring dealing directly with the Queen of Andor remember? How can that happen if Andor is obliterated? Alos, if Andor does get obliterated, would this not negate the truth Avi supposedly learns about the future? Paradox!

 

It's few decades into the future, so rebuilding is possible. Also, it seems that Two Rivers was separate from Andor, so it could mean that Andor did actually fall, losing some of its area before being rebuilt.

 

My biggest wonder is where are Elayne and Aviendha. Obviously they both live to give birth to their children AFTER the Last Battle. They are both also Aes Sedai, so they should live for hundreds of years... Unless they all ran off with Rand where ever he went to (I think he lived too, because in the vision he was said to have 'left' Aiel instead of dieing before he set things right).

[Finnssss22]

Presuming anything Aviedha saw in the Rhuidean actually comes to be, it seems very unlikely that Andor or Caemlyn will fall. She sees a future vision of her offspring dealing directly with the Queen of Andor remember? How can that happen if Andor is obliterated? Alos, if Andor does get obliterated, would this not negate the truth Avi supposedly learns about the future? Paradox!

 

It's few decades into the future, so rebuilding is possible. Also, it seems that Two Rivers was separate from Andor, so it could mean that Andor did actually fall, losing some of its area before being rebuilt.

 

My biggest wonder is where are Elayne and Aviendha. Obviously they both live to give birth to their children AFTER the Last Battle. They are both also Aes Sedai, so they should live for hundreds of years... Unless they all ran off with Rand where ever he went to (I think he lived too, because in the vision he was said to have 'left' Aiel instead of dieing before he set things right).

 

 

The Two Rivers is already separate in every way possible except name. Elayne gave it to Rand with Perrin as its' stewart.

An Autonomous nation within Andor would be the proper term, definitely separate though.

[Mr Ares]

The Verin/Moiraine situation really doesn't fit the prophetic requirement of Mat choosing between two AS. Maybe it was intended to be that, but I'm going to need to see a better argument or a BS quote before I accept that, and if it is the case then what is in the books really fails to get that across. After all, if Mat had opened the letter, he would have gone to Elayne. If she agreed to destroy the Waygate, his work is done. Within a morning, even. It doesn't take away from his mission to the ToG. If she doesn't agree to destroy it, but does allow Mat to put extra guards on it, then Mat can put the Band on the Gate, and leave Talmanes in charge while he goes to the ToG. There is absolutely nothing stopping him doing both. Nor did Mat see it as rescue Moiraine or do what Verin says - he just doesn't want to do what Verin says. So it is not one or the other, and if that was the intention then the writing failed to convey that.

 

And why not? He DOES choose between two Aes Sedai. He doesn't know what's in the letter. So his choice is: go for Moiraine (and then deal with Verin's letter), or risk opening Verin's letter (and may not be able to go for Moiraine at all).

Because of the maybe not go for Moiraine at all - by the same token, it could be maybe go for Moiraine a bit later than planned, or maybe go for Moiraine exactly when I otherwise would have done - possibly even a bit earlier, although that last is doubtful. It fails as the choice because it wasn't one or the other, the possibility of both always existed, he had nothing to say that was not still an option.

[Ananta]

Because of the maybe not go for Moiraine at all - by the same token, it could be maybe go for Moiraine a bit later than planned, or maybe go for Moiraine exactly when I otherwise would have done - possibly even a bit earlier, although that last is doubtful. It fails as the choice because it wasn't one or the other, the possibility of both always existed, he had nothing to say that was not still an option.

 

Mat himself said he doesn't dare to open the letter because it could have something like "Walk on your hands from Caemlyn to Tar Valon" or something like that. And he'd have to do it because he swore to do so.

 

So the safe thing to do is open the letter AFTER you're done with Moiraine. I, personally, think that the letter had more potential to delay or even prevent him from going to his trip to Moiraine rather than make him able to go sooner or in time.

 

I'd have done the same thing Mat did.

[afranson]

Olver may be creepy, but isn't he Gaidal Cain recycled. Birgitte will have to save his ugly little rear most likely. Then let's just hope she waits 'til he's a little older. Ewwww.

[Ananta]

Olver may be creepy, but isn't he Gaidal Cain recycled. Birgitte will have to save his ugly little rear most likely. Then let's just hope she waits 'til he's a little older. Ewwww.

I think it was said by RJ that Olver is NOT Gaidal Cain "recycled".

[Finnssss22]

Olver may be creepy, but isn't he Gaidal Cain recycled. Birgitte will have to save his ugly little rear most likely. Then let's just hope she waits 'til he's a little older. Ewwww.

I think it was said by RJ that Olver is NOT Gaidal Cain "recycled".

 

 

 

He did and besides, Olver was already 8 or 9 years old when the Horn was blown at Falme and Cain had not been "spun" back out yet at the time.

[shaiel]

I have this horrible feeling Olver is gonna die :(

[aynatal2000]

Verin's letter succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.If as a Black sister she was in close proximity to either Demandred or Moridin or the hearts that answered to them, then the destruction of the Waygate will be a blow to the Shadow and their plan to stream Trollocs through populated areas and monarchies who are team Light .

If she ferreted out who Cyndane ( and she would have heard of her), then she also knew or surmised that Moiraine was alive in the Finns. Now this is all speculation, but if she knew of Moiraine/Finns then she knew of the destroyed Doorways to the Finns - and that Mat would know how to get in.Remember when he first saw the Tower of Ghenjie on Domon's ship? When he finally went back to Tar Valon to be healed what could he have said in his delirium? Remember Verin was privy to some of that - and writing it down in her journal.

 

So, she knows Mat doesn't wish to be manipulated by Aes Sedai... so she a Sister tells him to wait to open the letter... wait a certain amount of time ... and he promises.But Verin also knows of Mat's luck - so she threw the dice when she gave him the letter and got his promise- and we all know that Mat now has his luck / blind luck. A travelling gate will be opened shortly - he set that up when they went to Finnland... and he will come through with Moiraine and her wonderful bracelet on her arm.Talmanes will have begun to use the Dragons- or maybe the gunpowder will blow Trollocs to hell... or blow up the Waygate.Where are the Dragons in Andor; where are they hidden? Anywhere near the Waygate?

 

Andor will burn but the Waygate will be destroyed. You can rebuild a kingdom and with the faith and fury of your subjects you can exceed what you had.This will be another victory for the Light, like Marador - this will inspire men,not destroy them because they will see the weapons created by men that destroy like the one power.

 

I wonder if she sent a letter to Alanna via Logain and that is who came to get her.They would not have felt a man using the power for a gate.

[Mandro]

Was she really though?

 

I think Verin really didn't expect Mat to ever open the letter. Think about it, she was a dark friend when she gave it to him but in it was info directly against the plans of her great lord. The only way she could have done this is if she was certain that it wouldn't be read until after she was dead (or within about an hour of said death).

 

The question really is why she would even bother to give him the letter if she didn't intend him to open it. I think she gave him the letter so that his army would be near caemlyn when the shadowspawn poured into it. The writing inside of it could have been for no other purpose than to warn tell him how to fix the problem once it started and prevent it in the future without seeming to be a darkfriend.

 

Keep in mind, Verin is regarded as being just as good as (if not better than) most gray sisters when it comes to manipulating people.

 

she might have believed everything she wrote, I think she did. What she overlooked was that not only was Matt honorable to his word, but that he had limited time to act on ToG situation. If he opened it, he would have been commited to something that interferred with his already established plans.

[Mandro]

Olver may be creepy, but isn't he Gaidal Cain recycled. Birgitte will have to save his ugly little rear most likely. Then let's just hope she waits 'til he's a little older. Ewwww.

 

Olver is young who has been spending all of his time around the most competent general leading the most competent army and learning from the most dedicated soldiers, He has the insoucience of youth that comes with thinking he has all the necessary tools. If olver is anyone recycled, he's hawkwing.

[Arc]

Verin's letter succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.If as a Black sister she was in close proximity to either Demandred or Moridin or the hearts that answered to them, then the destruction of the Waygate will be a blow to the Shadow and their plan to stream Trollocs through populated areas and monarchies who are team Light .

If she ferreted out who Cyndane ( and she would have heard of her), then she also knew or surmised that Moiraine was alive in the Finns. Now this is all speculation, but if she knew of Moiraine/Finns then she knew of the destroyed Doorways to the Finns - and that Mat would know how to get in.Remember when he first saw the Tower of Ghenjie on Domon's ship? When he finally went back to Tar Valon to be healed what could he have said in his delirium? Remember Verin was privy to some of that - and writing it down in her journal.

 

So, she knows Mat doesn't wish to be manipulated by Aes Sedai... so she a Sister tells him to wait to open the letter... wait a certain amount of time ... and he promises.But Verin also knows of Mat's luck - so she threw the dice when she gave him the letter and got his promise- and we all know that Mat now has his luck / blind luck. A travelling gate will be opened shortly - he set that up when they went to Finnland... and he will come through with Moiraine and her wonderful bracelet on her arm.Talmanes will have begun to use the Dragons- or maybe the gunpowder will blow Trollocs to hell... or blow up the Waygate.Where are the Dragons in Andor; where are they hidden? Anywhere near the Waygate?

 

Andor will burn but the Waygate will be destroyed. You can rebuild a kingdom and with the faith and fury of your subjects you can exceed what you had.This will be another victory for the Light, like Marador - this will inspire men,not destroy them because they will see the weapons created by men that destroy like the one power.

 

I wonder if she sent a letter to Alanna via Logain and that is who came to get her.They would not have felt a man using the power for a gate.

 

If what you say is true, which is possible, not likely but possible I think, wouldn't Rand read in his letter (the one he receives when visiting WT, which was from Verin right?) "Oh yeah Cyndane a.k.a Lanfear is alive so be aware in your dreams again, and Mat is going to fetch Moiraine for you, so don't be to suprised." .. That would make an anti-climax at FoM.

If Verin really knew all that you say, she wouldn't have held it back in the hour of her death now would she? It is possible though, since I figured she was also the only one who knew where the Horn of Valere was hidden in the WT, but that's just speculation on my part.

[Mr Ares]

Because of the maybe not go for Moiraine at all - by the same token, it could be maybe go for Moiraine a bit later than planned, or maybe go for Moiraine exactly when I otherwise would have done - possibly even a bit earlier, although that last is doubtful. It fails as the choice because it wasn't one or the other, the possibility of both always existed, he had nothing to say that was not still an option.

 

Mat himself said he doesn't dare to open the letter because it could have something like "Walk on your hands from Caemlyn to Tar Valon" or something like that. And he'd have to do it because he swore to do so.

 

So the safe thing to do is open the letter AFTER you're done with Moiraine. I, personally, think that the letter had more potential to delay or even prevent him from going to his trip to Moiraine rather than make him able to go sooner or in time.

 

I'd have done the same thing Mat did.

You can only open the letter after rescuing Moiraine if you wait until after the 30 days have expired before even leaving. So the chances are if anything in the letter was time sensitive, the time will have passed. Safe, but useless. Now, I consider Mat's refusal to find a way around his oath, to discover what was in the letter without agreeing to do what was in it, to be a moral failing. He should have done something like get Talmanes to open it. He thinks this would still oblige him to follow through, I accept that, but I still consider this a flaw on his part. What was actually in the letter would not have delayed him at all, but I accept there are any number of important things (walking on his hands anywhere was never likely to be the subject of the letter) that it could have asked him to do that would delay him. But delay is not cancellation, which was my point. Thus he helps Verin and Moiraine.

 

Olver may be creepy, but isn't he Gaidal Cain recycled. Birgitte will have to save his ugly little rear most likely. Then let's just hope she waits 'til he's a little older. Ewwww.

Olver is young who has been spending all of his time around the most competent general leading the most competent army and learning from the most dedicated soldiers, He has the insoucience of youth that comes with thinking he has all the necessary tools. If olver is anyone recycled, he's hawkwing.

Except he isn't, for exactly the same reason he isn't Cain: he's too old, and time doesn't go backwards.

[Lacanos]

If the trollocs try to use them all that will happen is they will explode, when they dont do it right. Verin should have realized that Mat was not going to open that letter.

 

How large is the dreamspike's radius? If it covers all of Camalyn, then Andor is in for a beating.

There isn't a dreamspike affecting Caemlyn. According to ToM, a dreamspike covers approx 4 leagues, the one at the BT therefore doesn't reach the city.

Before you try to point out the dreamspike responsible for the gateway snapping shut on Gawyn, that was Perrin's dreamspike affecting TV.