Quick Question - Is Lan a Blademaster Bc He Killed Toram Raitin?

[Durinax]

Another thought: After Rand lost his hand he said to Bashere that he'd have to learn the sword all over again. Has he had time to do anything like this? If not, if he does come up against a blademaster without his ability to channel to aid him he might get hurt very badly or worse.

 

Rand should pick up the rapier-style of sword. I believe Blademasters should be able to apply the sword forms to any sword. Lan should be as good with his Malkieri sword as with a Shienaran Broadsword or a Tearan (sp?) sabre. A little practice should see Rand capable with the sword again, as it was not his primary sword hand he lost, was it?

the issue with rand and a sword is that most forms require two hands on the hilt. so he will have to relearn each form using only one hand

[NetSlider]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

 

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

 

 

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

Sleete bested Lan either 2 out of 5 or 2 out of 7 (i don't have the book with me). That's not even close to 100-200. That was when Lan was younger because it is stated it happened when Lan still dueled with other warders (which sound like a while ago). Now Gawyn defeated Sleete and another warder which of itself says a lot (remember how Brin felt more strong and a lot faster after bonding). Let's also remember that Rand is bonded as well, so he does get benefit of a warder. Gawyn does not and once he is warder I don't see anyone besting him in dueling (like fighting 5 times in a raw or something)

Mat did take down both of them with a quarterstaff. The greatest blademaster in history, Jearom, was beaten by a farmer with a quarterstaff. So, that does not prove much plus Gawyn had a lot of training since and practice.

In regards to stabbing warders in the back - where is that from? (i know you didn't post it). He faced them during revolution against Suan from what I remember.

And last thing, how did you come up with LTT was 500+ years old. I really don't recall ever reading that. I know he was over 100 maybe over 200 but 500+? Sound a bit excessive.

 

Not in the book, again! Lan became warder at the age of 27 or so. Lan never was a "young" warder per se.

 

Rand is more stronger than woman who has bonded her (making warder bond rather pointless) and he is same age as Gawyn. What could that bond possibly do for DR? I don't know what you think being warder has to do with sword skill? Especially being a blade master? Do you think warders are physically the best men around or sword fight is some kind of muscle game?

 

By the way, Gawyn probably has been practicing with sword since the day he was born. Remember unlike sword, Rand picked up bow very early and I think he can even give Birgitte run for hes money.

 

And yes, LTT was 400 plus years old. Most forsaken were 300 or older. Semirhage was young and then she was 200 or more.

 

I said when Lan was younger (when he actually dueled with other warders). So, it is obvious he was younger, again! And it is in tGS in Gawyn's POV (the reference to Lan's prior duelings with other warders that he doesn't do anymore, to some degree (he does it with ashaman at least at one point)).

 

And the bond is absolutely makes one a better sword fighter. It def gives one some additional ability enhancers (Bryne POV from tGS and numerous references through all of the books that warders can do things other man can't). So to say that bonding has nothing to do with one's physical abilities it crazy. And yes, sword fight has a lot to do with agility, speed, muscle, stamina, and so on. Sword requires physical strengths and not just quick mind. Regardless of the age of a person, bonding does provide one with benefits in physical sense of a word. In regards to the bond and it's benefit for Rand, there was even a discussion that the fact he was bonded saved his ass from Fain (or at least helped him). DR or not he still a man in many, many ways and has body as anyone else. There are benefits for him in bonding, that's for sure.

 

The age of LTT i need to look it up (as i'm not sure about your 400+; though at first it was 500+ )

 

 

 

[didymos]

I am not saying that Gawyn will not catch up with Lan eventually though no one can match the meteoric rise of Rand. Of all the Blademasters in Randland, he is the only one who picked up sword for first time when he was 20!

 

Yeah, well, the benefits of past-life bleed-through. The drawbacks are a bitch, though.

 

As for Gawyn v. Lan: it's silly. There's no point in trying to figure out (pseudo)scientifically who is TEH BEST EVAR! The main point of the Gawyn Fights Sleete And Marlesh scene is to inform the reader than Gawyn is now Officially Awesome With The Sword. Just like Mat trouncing him and Galad was for announcing he was Officially Awesome With A Quarterstaff. That's it.

[NetSlider]

I still can't find the age of LTT. I'll start a new topic.

[jdbond]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

 

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

 

 

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

Sleete bested Lan either 2 out of 5 or 2 out of 7 (i don't have the book with me). That's not even close to 100-200. That was when Lan was younger because it is stated it happened when Lan still dueled with other warders (which sound like a while ago). Now Gawyn defeated Sleete and another warder which of itself says a lot (remember how Brin felt more strong and a lot faster after bonding). Let's also remember that Rand is bonded as well, so he does get benefit of a warder. Gawyn does not and once he is warder I don't see anyone besting him in dueling (like fighting 5 times in a raw or something)

Mat did take down both of them with a quarterstaff. The greatest blademaster in history, Jearom, was beaten by a farmer with a quarterstaff. So, that does not prove much plus Gawyn had a lot of training since and practice.

In regards to stabbing warders in the back - where is that from? (i know you didn't post it). He faced them during revolution against Suan from what I remember.

And last thing, how did you come up with LTT was 500+ years old. I really don't recall ever reading that. I know he was over 100 maybe over 200 but 500+? Sound a bit excessive.

 

Not in the book, again! Lan became warder at the age of 27 or so. Lan never was a "young" warder per se.

 

Rand is more stronger than woman who has bonded her (making warder bond rather pointless) and he is same age as Gawyn. What could that bond possibly do for DR? I don't know what you think being warder has to do with sword skill? Especially being a blade master? Do you think warders are physically the best men around or sword fight is some kind of muscle game?

 

By the way, Gawyn probably has been practicing with sword since the day he was born. Remember unlike sword, Rand picked up bow very early and I think he can even give Birgitte run for hes money.

 

And yes, LTT was 400 plus years old. Most forsaken were 300 or older. Semirhage was young and then she was 200 or more.

 

I said when Lan was younger (when he actually dueled with other warders). So, it is obvious he was younger, again! And it is in tGS in Gawyn's POV (the reference to Lan's prior duelings with other warders that he doesn't do anymore, to some degree (he does it with ashaman at least at one point)).

 

And the bond is absolutely makes one a better sword fighter. It def gives one some additional ability enhancers (Bryne POV from tGS and numerous references through all of the books that warders can do things other man can't). So to say that bonding has nothing to do with one's physical abilities it crazy. And yes, sword fight has a lot to do with agility, speed, muscle, stamina, and so on. Sword requires physical strengths and not just quick mind. Regardless of the age of a person, bonding does provide one with benefits in physical sense of a word. In regards to the bond and it's benefit for Rand, there was even a discussion that the fact he was bonded saved his ass from Fain (or at least helped him). DR or not he still a man in many, many ways and has body as anyone else. There are benefits for him in bonding, that's for sure.

 

The age of LTT i need to look it up (as i'm not sure about your 400+; though at first it was 500+ )

 

Lot of revelations for me. Sword fight is skill based, not strength based. Trollocs are not the best sword fighter. I didn't even know that Rand survived Fain because of some Warder bond. Lan was accomplished sowrdsmand before he was Warder and there are tons of non-warder blademaster not to mention Rand killing an actual one in tGH. Yes, the DR became magical with sword "after" he was bonded! So now he has two more "female" channeler bond and that means he must be as quick as Deadpool;)

 

Warders are better fighter because of their background and not because of their magical bond. Remember, they are picked by Aes Sedai. What criteria do you think is used for such selection? Yet, there are very few blademaster Warders. A guy from Kenya can run 40 miles but he is never going to be a blade master. In history some of the most accomplished swordsmen were neither cross country runner nor they could go without food for 2 months and stay awake for 3 weeks. Lets just say we have different opinion on this.

[didymos]

So now he has two more "female" channeler bond and that means he must be as quick as Deadpool;)

 

Unfortunately, Warder bonds don't stack. ;(

[DragonChi]

So now he has two more "female" channeler bond and that means he must be as quick as Deadpool;)

 

Unfortunately, Warder bonds don't stack. ;(

Or at least Warder Bonds from Saidin don't stack. We don't have an example yet of a warder bond that was bonded from both an Aes Sedai and an Asha'man to know if they would stack since weaves with both are stronger.

 

In my opinion Gaywn might be better one on one with the sword than Lan. But, if I was facing a dozen Trollocs I would take Lan at my side everytime. It is not simply skill with a sword that makes a warrior. Lan is not a legend because of his skill as a sword master - he is a legend because of his honor, his courage, his determination. Gaywn is still more boy than man - he has learned the skills and with the younglings he gained some experience. It is like compairing a promising five star High School recruit going ready to pick his college team to an all american NFL Super bowl champion.

 

And a warder bond would definately make a blademaster better especially in a long battle - I fenced in college and do martial arts - while you are nothing without skill - you still need to have the physical skills. If you have the skills (which is why warders are so highly trained)then the bonds increase endureance and strength would make a big diference. A skilled fighter against a low skilled opponent leads to the opponent being dead quickly with or without the warder bond. But if you lack skill and you have a Warder bond - a skilled opponent will still guide your thrust to the side and gut you. But against a fade you are going to need that edge of the bond. You will need skill and every physical advantage.

[dovien]

“You were a greater swordsman once Lews Therin. Do you remember when we took that tame game of swords and used it to kill?”

 

—Be'lal to Rand, The Dragon Reborn.

[Duskfire]

Actually, Darlin is not a blade master. After Rand and Toram's duel the group is hit by a bubble of evil and the Aes Sedai wish their warders were there and Cadsuane looks at Rand, Toram, and Darlin and says something like "We have three fine blades here, two of them heron-marked" refering to Rand and Toram's swords.

 

Your right; I had the memory somehow of Darlin announcing himself as a blademaster to Mat when they fought, but having re-read the passage its just Mat thinking Darlin was veyr good with the sword.

 

I still maintain though that Mat would give Lan a run for his money. Lan is very very good (obviously) but Mat has a few advantages on his side. Not to mention, his own sort of void, which I call, "the Mat laidback effect."

[NetSlider]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

 

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

 

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

Sleete bested Lan either 2 out of 5 or 2 out of 7 (i don't have the book with me). That's not even close to 100-200. That was when Lan was younger because it is stated it happened when Lan still dueled with other warders (which sound like a while ago). Now Gawyn defeated Sleete and another warder which of itself says a lot (remember how Brin felt more strong and a lot faster after bonding). Let's also remember that Rand is bonded as well, so he does get benefit of a warder. Gawyn does not and once he is warder I don't see anyone besting him in dueling (like fighting 5 times in a raw or something)

Mat did take down both of them with a quarterstaff. The greatest blademaster in history, Jearom, was beaten by a farmer with a quarterstaff. So, that does not prove much plus Gawyn had a lot of training since and practice.

In regards to stabbing warders in the back - where is that from? (i know you didn't post it). He faced them during revolution against Suan from what I remember.

And last thing, how did you come up with LTT was 500+ years old. I really don't recall ever reading that. I know he was over 100 maybe over 200 but 500+? Sound a bit excessive.

 

Not in the book, again! Lan became warder at the age of 27 or so. Lan never was a "young" warder per se.

 

Rand is more stronger than woman who has bonded her (making warder bond rather pointless) and he is same age as Gawyn. What could that bond possibly do for DR? I don't know what you think being warder has to do with sword skill? Especially being a blade master? Do you think warders are physically the best men around or sword fight is some kind of muscle game?

 

By the way, Gawyn probably has been practicing with sword since the day he was born. Remember unlike sword, Rand picked up bow very early and I think he can even give Birgitte run for hes money.

 

And yes, LTT was 400 plus years old. Most forsaken were 300 or older. Semirhage was young and then she was 200 or more.

 

I said when Lan was younger (when he actually dueled with other warders). So, it is obvious he was younger, again! And it is in tGS in Gawyn's POV (the reference to Lan's prior duelings with other warders that he doesn't do anymore, to some degree (he does it with ashaman at least at one point)).

 

And the bond is absolutely makes one a better sword fighter. It def gives one some additional ability enhancers (Bryne POV from tGS and numerous references through all of the books that warders can do things other man can't). So to say that bonding has nothing to do with one's physical abilities it crazy. And yes, sword fight has a lot to do with agility, speed, muscle, stamina, and so on. Sword requires physical strengths and not just quick mind. Regardless of the age of a person, bonding does provide one with benefits in physical sense of a word. In regards to the bond and it's benefit for Rand, there was even a discussion that the fact he was bonded saved his ass from Fain (or at least helped him). DR or not he still a man in many, many ways and has body as anyone else. There are benefits for him in bonding, that's for sure.

 

The age of LTT i need to look it up (as i'm not sure about your 400+; though at first it was 500+)

 

Lot of revelations for me. Sword fight is skill based, not strength based. Trollocs are not the best sword fighter. I didn't even know that Rand survived Fain because of some Warder bond. Lan was accomplished sowrdsmand before he was Warder and there are tons of non-warder blademaster not to mention Rand killing an actual one in tGH. Yes, the DR became magical with sword "after" he was bonded! So now he has two more "female" channeler bond and that means he must be as quick as Deadpool;)

 

Warders are better fighter because of their background and not because of their magical bond. Remember, they are picked by Aes Sedai. What criteria do you think is used for such selection? Yet, there are very few blademaster Warders. A guy from Kenya can run 40 miles but he is never going to be a blade master. In history some of the most accomplished swordsmen were neither cross country runner nor they could go without food for 2 months and stay awake for 3 weeks. Lets just say we have different opinion on this.

 

First of, read what I'm saying and don't twist it, sir!

 

I said there was a discussion that Rand survived because he was bonded as warder. I did not, nor do I now, make it a statement of fact. I was only brining to your attention the fact that I'm not the only who thinks warder's bond gives physical benefits (which is pretty clear I thought until now). I don't see where you draw the line between the benefits of stemina and sword fighting ability. Are you saying that being able to ran for a long time and stay alert for a long period of time will have no effect in the sword fight? Can you answer this question than: do you really think that bonding has no additional benefits to warder's body and strength.

In regards to sword fighting - you're right that it's not all about strength. And trollocs are not that good because....they are dump! Can you say the same about fades. They're all pretty much a good match for a blade master (though not as good).

 

Rand killing the blade master in tGH is not an indicator - he was not close to being a blade master than and we see that in tDR. If you ask me, it was because the guy underestimated him and also because he's a taveren; luck has to do a lot with it. It's my guess, but if you see what Lan says before they leave borderlands, Rand was obviously not a blade master at that time.

Different opinions on this you say? Well, if you think that the bonding has nothing to do with a man being better at sword fight than I guess we should dismiss how Bryne saved Suan from bloodknife as well.

This whole discussion started because I said that Gawyn can probably take on Lan from what we saw in tGS. My point was that he took on two warders multiple times and one of them was actually blade master who was pretty close to Lan when Lan was younger and still dueled with other warders. But you sir, dismissed that and did not even addressed it in your recent reply because your statement of winning once out of 100-200 duels was simply falls. You've also did not even address the original discussion but went on a tangent about Rand's skill and the nature of bonding and its effects, which can not be more than speculative. Stop being so arrogant and putting statements in my mouth I never made, such as Rand survived Fain because his bond, and instead stick to productive and respectful discussion.

Best regards.

[capuga]

I still maintain though that Mat would give Lan a run for his money. Lan is very very good (obviously) but Mat has a few advantages on his side. Not to mention, his own sort of void, which I call, "the Mat laidback effect."

 

I agree that Mat could give Lan a run for his money. But I think a lot of that has to do with his choice of weapon. Just like a big part of why he was able to beat Gawyn and Galad at the same time was that he was using a quarterstaff instead of a sword. He might not necessarily have been a more skilled fighter then them (although he probably was because Mat is, of course, a bada**). But that is also why I don't usually include non-swordsmen when I think in terms of blademasters.

[Callahan]

LTT and Belal were true blademasters, probably better than anyone alive in Randland.

 

It helps that they sort of rediscovered the sport! Sammael was also an accomplished swordsman I believe, and I don think it's a stretch to include Demandred in there. Though I think their rankings would have been a lot more formal and organised than simply "Blademaster" in our current age, but I'd place those four in the top tier. I would even include Moridin with some form of rank in there, as the sword would have been seen as good exercise and there's no reason why Moridin would eschew exercise. We know he's good with a staff after all :D!

 

I would be inclined to consider Demandred in that list as well, merely from the fact that he was just a hair shy of LTT in just about everything.

[capuga]

LTT and Belal were true blademasters, probably better than anyone alive in Randland.

 

It helps that they sort of rediscovered the sport! Sammael was also an accomplished swordsman I believe, and I don think it's a stretch to include Demandred in there. Though I think their rankings would have been a lot more formal and organised than simply "Blademaster" in our current age, but I'd place those four in the top tier. I would even include Moridin with some form of rank in there, as the sword would have been seen as good exercise and there's no reason why Moridin would eschew exercise. We know he's good with a staff after all :D!

 

I would be inclined to consider Demandred in that list as well, merely from the fact that he was just a hair shy of LTT in just about everything.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Demandred is very good with the sword, however, at this point we haven't had any references to his skill at all so I don't think we can include him in the discussion without any type of evidence one way or the other.

[didymos]

I still maintain though that Mat would give Lan a run for his money. Lan is very very good (obviously) but Mat has a few advantages on his side. Not to mention, his own sort of void, which I call, "the Mat laidback effect."

 

Mat is definitely not to be trifled with when he's wielding that ashandarei. Just recall how he completely owns that Fade in a matter of seconds in tFoH, and he managed to kill Couladin one on one, who was certainly a jackass but also very, very deadly with spear in hand.

[jdbond]

Damn it, I had to go back and read the whole thing again;)

 

 

Sleete bested Lan 2 times out of 7 times, when Lan "used to spar" with other warders. So I was wrong about the fight count and yes, there is no "age" mentioned there. If this happened even 10 years ago, that would make Lan 37!And Gawyn is what, 23? And if Lan is old now, that means Sleete was younger too when Lan used to spar with him.

 

I call quits here. I was thinking about writing a long post but it doesn't matter.

[jdbond]

I still maintain though that Mat would give Lan a run for his money. Lan is very very good (obviously) but Mat has a few advantages on his side. Not to mention, his own sort of void, which I call, "the Mat laidback effect."

 

Mat is definitely not to be trifled with when he's wielding that ashandarei. Just recall how he completely owns that Fade in a matter of seconds in tFoH, and he managed to kill Couladin one on one, who was certainly a jackass but also very, very deadly with spear in hand.

 

 

So who do you think will win between Rand and Mat? Ofcourse, Rand cannot do much fighting now but when he could? Rand is not like other fighters. He can fight with anything, even his bare hands.

[didymos]

So who do you think will win between Rand and Mat? Ofcourse, Rand cannot do much fighting now but when he could? Rand is not like other fighters. He can fight with anything, even his bare hands.

 

I have no idea. I never try to stake out a position in these "X fights Y: who wins?" things because it's pointless. If RJ ever wrote, or BWS ever does write, a Mat v. Rand fight, the winner would be whoever they wanted it to be for whatever reasons they decided. But, to indulge a bit: if Mat could keep Rand at a fair distance and disarm him early on, he'd probably win. If Rand closed rapidly or got inside the ashandarei, then Mat likely loses. See what I mean? Pointless. You can always come up with something plausible-sounding to declare whoever you want the victor.

[Jon Paul]

I said that Gawyn can probably take on Lan from what we saw in tGS. My point was that he took on two warders multiple times and one of them was actually blade master who was pretty close to Lan when Lan was younger and still dueled with other warders.

 

When Gawyn can start picking grasshoppers off that jump up behind him, then maybe I'll consider him in for the running. Until then, no thank you.

[jdbond]

So who do you think will win between Rand and Mat? Ofcourse, Rand cannot do much fighting now but when he could? Rand is not like other fighters. He can fight with anything, even his bare hands.

 

I have no idea. I never try to stake out a position in these "X fights Y: who wins?" things because it's pointless. If RJ ever wrote, or BWS ever does write, a Mat v. Rand fight, the winner would be whoever they wanted it to be for whatever reasons they decided. But, to indulge a bit: if Mat could keep Rand at a fair distance and disarm him early on, he'd probably win. If Rand closed rapidly or got inside the ashandarei, then Mat likely loses. See what I mean? Pointless. You can always come up with something plausible-sounding to declare whoever you want the victor.

 

Ahh chances.Only reason I mentioned Rand because he can actually fight with quarterstaff I think. I remember Mat mentioning that Tam was very good with it. Rand is not bound by a certain weapon. He can pick up anything and excel with it.

[Sid]

A quarterstaff would be problematic nowadays for Rand. Mat could take him easily without the One Power involved.

[drewk]

Lot of revelations for me. Sword fight is skill based, not strength based. Trollocs are not the best sword fighter. I didn't even know that Rand survived Fain because of some Warder bond. Lan was accomplished sowrdsmand before he was Warder and there are tons of non-warder blademaster not to mention Rand killing an actual one in tGH. Yes, the DR became magical with sword "after" he was bonded! So now he has two more "female" channeler bond and that means he must be as quick as Deadpool;)

 

Warders are better fighter because of their background and not because of their magical bond. Remember, they are picked by Aes Sedai. What criteria do you think is used for such selection? Yet, there are very few blademaster Warders. A guy from Kenya can run 40 miles but he is never going to be a blade master. In history some of the most accomplished swordsmen were neither cross country runner nor they could go without food for 2 months and stay awake for 3 weeks. Lets just say we have different opinion on this.

 

You might have a different opinion, but it is wrong. Stamina does not only count in long distance running. Sword fights are skill-based, but without a fairly decent amount of strength and endurance, a guy who is stronger and faster than you but a bit less skilled would beat you every time. In addition to stamina, the warder bond also gives the warder heightened senses and quicker reflexes, both of which are absolutely essential to a sword fight.

 

Also, because of the warder bond, warders don't have to be as good as regular guys who are blademasters. The heightened senses, reflexes, and endurance attained through the bond by themselves make up for YEARS of training that a non-warder blademaster would have to go through. Even so, most warders are or almost are at the level of a blademaster, so the extras go that much further. Another reason there aren't that many blademaster warders is that they have much more important duties to carry out and not much time to go out of their way to seek a largely unnecessary qualification. In fact, having a heron on your sword is in some ways a negative thing. It draws people's attention.

 

Here is another situation about how a heron mark sword could be a negative thing for a warder. Imagine a warder and his Aes Sedai traveling along a road somewhere, when they are spied from a distance by some brigand or even a Whitecloak. Upon further inspection, they note the heron mark sword the warder is carrying. Instead of bothering to confront either of them for fear of being soundly beaten, the attacker just puts an arrow in them and ride off. (This of course all depends on how stealthy the attacking party is, not much is going to get by a warder) This is just a random scenario, but I think it fits how people view the heron mark sword...as something to be avoided.

[jdbond]

Lot of revelations for me. Sword fight is skill based, not strength based. Trollocs are not the best sword fighter. I didn't even know that Rand survived Fain because of some Warder bond. Lan was accomplished sowrdsmand before he was Warder and there are tons of non-warder blademaster not to mention Rand killing an actual one in tGH. Yes, the DR became magical with sword "after" he was bonded! So now he has two more "female" channeler bond and that means he must be as quick as Deadpool;)

 

Warders are better fighter because of their background and not because of their magical bond. Remember, they are picked by Aes Sedai. What criteria do you think is used for such selection? Yet, there are very few blademaster Warders. A guy from Kenya can run 40 miles but he is never going to be a blade master. In history some of the most accomplished swordsmen were neither cross country runner nor they could go without food for 2 months and stay awake for 3 weeks. Lets just say we have different opinion on this.

 

You might have a different opinion, but it is wrong. Stamina does not only count in long distance running. Sword fights are skill-based, but without a fairly decent amount of strength and endurance, a guy who is stronger and faster than you but a bit less skilled would beat you every time. In addition to stamina, the warder bond also gives the warder heightened senses and quicker reflexes, both of which are absolutely essential to a sword fight.

 

 

Quote from the book that says bond makes warder move faster (quick reflexes)...

 

So Hammar and Sleete were exception who liked attention? And now that Gawyn is bonded, he is basically God among men and no one can touch him? We are talking sword right and not sex?

[didymos]

Quote from the book that says bond makes warder move faster (quick reflexes)...

 

Yeah, as far as I know, the bond doesn't grant heightened reflexes or a boost in raw speed. There's that "Warder grace" thing, which seems to partially bond-related, but we see something much like that in anyone who epitomizes badassery, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with reflexes anyway. The Aiel, for example. It gives one stamina (which will indirectly "enhance" reflexes, but only in that they won't dull as quickly due to fatigue), ability to go longer and function better than non-Warders without food or sleep, significant resistance to injury and infection (cf. when Lan shows up in Salidar after losing Moraine), limited sensing of Shadowspawn and some protection from being "seen" by the Shadow, and allows one to retain vitality and fighting ability even into old age.

[drewk]

Lot of revelations for me. Sword fight is skill based, not strength based. Trollocs are not the best sword fighter. I didn't even know that Rand survived Fain because of some Warder bond. Lan was accomplished sowrdsmand before he was Warder and there are tons of non-warder blademaster not to mention Rand killing an actual one in tGH. Yes, the DR became magical with sword "after" he was bonded! So now he has two more "female" channeler bond and that means he must be as quick as Deadpool;)

 

Warders are better fighter because of their background and not because of their magical bond. Remember, they are picked by Aes Sedai. What criteria do you think is used for such selection? Yet, there are very few blademaster Warders. A guy from Kenya can run 40 miles but he is never going to be a blade master. In history some of the most accomplished swordsmen were neither cross country runner nor they could go without food for 2 months and stay awake for 3 weeks. Lets just say we have different opinion on this.

 

You might have a different opinion, but it is wrong. Stamina does not only count in long distance running. Sword fights are skill-based, but without a fairly decent amount of strength and endurance, a guy who is stronger and faster than you but a bit less skilled would beat you every time. In addition to stamina, the warder bond also gives the warder heightened senses and quicker reflexes, both of which are absolutely essential to a sword fight.

 

 

Quote from the book that says bond makes warder move faster (quick reflexes)...

 

So Hammar and Sleete were exception who liked attention? And now that Gawyn is bonded, he is basically God among men and no one can touch him? We are talking sword right and not sex?

 

Hah! I wasn't talking about sex before but now that you mention it...how does Nynaeve walk in the morning?

 

Anyway, I really wish I could dig up a quote from the books, but my set is halfway around the world from me right now. But its not just one quote. There are references to Lan's eyes being sharper than most at night, and I'm pretty sure that when Bryne gets bonded he feels the vitality and its something akin to how it is described while embracing the source, senses being enhanced etc. I could be wrong about that part though.

 

My point was that gaining stamina the way they do is a BIG DEAL for warders, and not just because they can run. Kind of makes them like the "Rangers from the North" in LOTR except with an explanation of why they are the definition of badass.

 

I don't understand the other points you made about Sleete, Hammar, and Gawyn. Sword fights are never a foregone conclusion just because one person has more skill than the other. Perhaps Hammar had some doubts about fighting against the White Tower. Perhaps Lan had sprained his ankle earlier in the day when fighting Sleete. Look at Rand v. Turak and see what other factors came into play there. (Rand's ta'veren-ness and Turak's overconfidence) The people who have the highest skill in swords in the books are all roughly equal, so we must look at other factors to determine who would win in fights between them.

 

As for Gawyn, he's a damn good swordsman. Maybe he will be the best in the series. All I know is that if he tries to mess with Rand, he's gonna learn a lesson or two.

[Sid]

please watch the spoilers people. Thank you.