Discuss The Full Book

[Moon Sedai]

I know it's insanely wrong, but in my head, as I read the New Rand, his Voice shifted from 'hardened warrior" to a voice I can only describe as "Luna Lovegood."

 

That being said, I Loved the new Rand.

 

Also, feel that I figured out that a Dreamspike protect[ed?} Rhiuden from T'A'R/Travel. HAD A D'oh! moment there, never thought a Terangreal would have been cause of it, but it makes sense.

Kinda think that the Borderlanders departing 'because of the storm' from TGS prologue are in Lan's camp of people.

 

Moments I liked:

I like how as Galad and Perrin's groups got closer together, the POVs seemed to get shorter, until they finally met.

I like how we didn't get an out right "Okay, so I killed Asmo" moment, just accusations of 'you're making a habit of this."

I loved the Reunions with Morgase and her children. Each one made me cry a little bit. [And it proved me wrong on a few of my own ideas about her relations with her kids].

Mat's reaction to Elayne's pregnancy

How everyone started planning for the Aybarra children that have yet to be conceived (unless Faile is now pregnant)

Nyn's threats to Myrelle.

Verin's Genius: and I noticed that several people were holding letters with little wax seals, no mention of the content of the letters.

Fulfillment of many prophecies/viewings/future quests.

Perrin's new toy (Similar name to Thor's Hammer, Mjǫllnir).

Mat's storyline. (Anyone notice that he slid past telling Elayne he was married to Seanchan Empress, May She Live Forever?)

What I didn't like

The timeline was a little confusing.

Avi's vision- feel cheated as a reader if THAT is the future that Rand's fighting to save.

The Ituralde storyline.

[Elend]

Let's not forget that the one now given the job of turning Rand was never named by Shaidar Haran. Has Shadow plot written all over Rand's dream.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Let's not forget that the one now given the job of turning Rand was never named by Shaidar Haran. Has Shadow plot written all over Rand's dream.

 

Yeppp. I think that we were lulled into a false sense of security when Rand said that the Shadow had missed its chance and wouldnt try to turn him again. Then suddenly Lanfear seems to want to turn good, which in turn makes Rand suspiciously "aroused". (about the desire he felt)

 

Shadow plot FTW.

[Slick Mongoose]

What happened to Alanna? Did we find out and I missed it?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am also very concerned. In regards to Avi's vision. Its most likely that it isnt true, but I cant help but worry.

 

After ToM I actually WANT the Shadow to win. I would rather the pattern be utterly destroyed than see the seanchan Empire rule like that.

 

I confess I really want Demandred (because he has to be my favorite shadow character) to absolutely rip the Seanchan to pieces, followed by bringing the White Tower to its knees.

 

For the first time I am actually liking Moridin's vision. So much pain and death ahead, oblivion seems fitting.

 

The only problem with that of course, is the Trollocs and other shadowspawn killing children. THAT, i dont want. But Seanchan, the White Tower i really hope demandred ruins.

 

The Black Tower also needs to be beaten up a bit, but DF's control it, so i suppose the Light will have to do it.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Finished it last night, well need to read it again.

 

I liked it more than tGS. Some things bothered me, just a little, but the book impressed me a lot. In fact I loved it.

[wheel]

The Lanfear-scene-was-a-trap-to-get-Rand-to-do-something-reckless-using-Moridin-Rand-True-Power-Connection theory is too Voldemort-ish to be true.

Lanfear's being tortured by Moridin, Rand sees it. He tries to save her and makes a mistake. But I don't think it was actually a PLAN.

 

As for the Glass Column's future telling ability, its only a possibility, an attempt by RJ to make Aviendha's trip more eventful. If such a thing could've been made, the AS of the AoL could have known about their destruction beforehand.

[wheel]

And maybe Narishma would lead the world after Rand, effectively becoming the 'One who follows after'.

Any theories on Rand's other two questions to the AelFinn?

And is there no mention of Fain in ToM except the Prologue?

[Rawdog]

I came here hoping to find out what everyone else thought of the BUT, i assume it was the ashendarei being the way out of the ToG? someone mentioned earlier that it was the Noam bit but that hasn't really been mentioned since it happened so I discounted it, anyway yeah, am I right on this?

[wheel]

And where is Alivia? Any theories on her helping Rand die?

[wheel]

Oh yeah! Can't believe no one else talked about this! What about the letter that Tiana handed Rand when he comes to Tar Valon?

[GB]

was alanna given a letter from verin?

[clu7ch]

I'm tired of discussing this, I can't see how the true power could kill the dark one, when it is in essence, himself. He controls who uses it.

[GB]

anyone else noticed graendal said something about attaching strings to fortuona?

[Dakota]

Was anyone else let down with how the 'revelation' of who Asmodean's killer was?

We get one line in the book that could still be open to interpretation, and a glossary entry that puts a solid answer.

No explanations? No "Why I did it" or "How I did it" from the killer? Nothing to reveal what about it made it 'obvious' from the moment of his death, as RJ claimed it was?

 

Granted, it's not that big a surprise, since most of the fandom I think was leaning towards Graendal anyway, but still, the way the big question was answered was still quite a let-down.

[Dakota]

anyone else noticed graendal said something about attaching strings to fortuona?

 

I don't have the book on me ATM, so I can't check. I think she was saying that she had intentions on attaching strings to Fortuona and was near Ebou Dar, but since the Trolloc Army meant for Perrin was killed, she knew she had to flee to a portal world or something like that. But SH got to her first.

 

I might have my chapters a bit mixed up. I'm pretty sure I remember though that she was wanting to do something about Fortuona since Semi was gone, but was unable to do so for other reasons.

[firstfishman]

Sorry if this has been posted before, did not want to read through 32 pages.

 

 

Glossary:

 

Graendal; One of the Forsaken. Once known as Kamarile Meradim Nindara noted ascetic, she was the second of the Forsaken to decide to serve the Dark One. A ruthless killer, she was responsible for the deaths or Aran'gar, ASMODEAN and for the destruction of Mesaana. Her present circumstances are uncertain...

 

 

 

FInally!!!! ASMO IS DEAD!!!!!! MOVE ON!!!!!!!

 

LoL

[Goramier]

I didn't read all 32 pages of this thread but I read a ton and I have to say...no offense but I cannot believe how innaccurate MOST of the info is, lol. So many "spoilers" are either way off the mark or not exactly accurate. I suspect many giving out these spoilers haven't actually read the book yet. Not sure if it gets more accurate after around page 25 but it didn't appear to be doing so.

 

If you are reading these spoiler boards and have not yet read the book I think you will find MOST of the info here isn't accurate or at least only partly accurate.

 

Also when a bunch of fans start pouring ideas togather remember that they come up with THEIR own conculsions and they drawn THEIR own facts and they may not be accurate even if the forum posts all speak as if they are proven fact.

 

It is amazing how wildly off MOST of it is, lol. Some is accurate, don't get me wrong but some posts from people giving out these "spoilers" have clearly skimmed the book as fast as they could without actually understanding anything they read and then commented on.

[Bob T Dwarf]

It is amazing how wildly off MOST of it is, lol. Some is accurate, don't get me wrong but some posts from people giving out these "spoilers" have clearly skimmed the book as fast as they could without actually understanding anything they read and then commented on.

 

That's why I never hesitate to read spoiler threads. Because of all the inaccuracies, I've never found them to spoil my enjoyment of the book once I get my hands on my copy.

 

( which, thankfully, should get here today )

[Sharaman]

Some thoughts on TAR

1) If Hopper's vibe of "dying the final death" if killed in TAR is correct, Alviarin, Nicola, etc may be dead beyond GLoD's power of resurrection.

I assumed the stag had dreamt itself there since wild animals do. Was it the soul of a dead stag? Or does this happen to any soul that is killed in TAR?

Or is it a problem only with entering TAR in the flesh or being dead and resident only in TAR?

It could just be the death method with Asmo. RJ puzzled everyone with a statement that where Asmo died was important and part of the reason why he can't be resurrected. Maybe the killer was using TAR to wander around the Palace and just exiting into real space when Asmo arrived and she pulled him into it, in the flesh?

It could also be why the WO are so anti-entering TAR in the flesh.

 

2) Slayer can heal himself somehow from injuries in TAR. This is a recent power since he couldn't, when Perrin punctured him in TSR.

 

3) If Isam dies does Luc simply take over? Or vice-versa? That would be awesome. Perrin kills the guy, the body disappears and next second, he's hit from behind by the other bloke!

 

4) If Perrin can bust the Dreamspike barrier and then the DSpike itself while in TAR, Egwene or the three Aiel WO Dreamers could, just as well.

In fact, anybody who dreamt their way into TAR (didn't need a Gate to get there in the flesh) and understood it well, could,

This is an odd hole for a warding device from the AoL, when everybody and his big sister wandered casually around the dreamtime.

Please critique?

[Goramier]

Actually regarding Hopper...some one in the non-spoiler thread I think suggested that perhaps he would become a dark hound....it could end up being correct after all.

[Maji]

I'm too bloody lazy to quote each person, so I will just reference a few things here.

 

To the man speaking about Rand having no fear when confronted with 13 aes sedia in Far Madding, or being shielded in Tar Valon, it's simply because he can wield the True Power. No special hokus pokus power no one knows about thats "for the light". He can still channel if need be, and create a gateway out, and why should he be threatened by Aes Sedia inside Far Madding when he can still channel?

 

BS has stated that if you are shielded from one power, you are shielded from all. I believe someone asked if this included the True Power and he confirmed that it did. (I will try to find the reference for you). I got the impression that his ta'vern effect (or perhaps his strength in the one power) has grown to such an extent that he could break free from that. I don't believe we were ever given any indication that Rand had reached his max strength. We see Rand completely demolish a Trolloc army, sending them packing. The Asha'man couldn't even keep track of all the weaves. I know Rand has said previously that he could do a dozen (maybe two?) weaves at once. I don't ever recall him using hundred (or more) at once. I'm thinking the pattern sensed the lack of strength for the Light and beefed Rand up or he could just be coming to the peak of his channeling potential (probably the later).

[Goramier]

I'm too bloody lazy to quote each person, so I will just reference a few things here.

 

To the man speaking about Rand having no fear when confronted with 13 aes sedia in Far Madding, or being shielded in Tar Valon, it's simply because he can wield the True Power. No special hokus pokus power no one knows about thats "for the light". He can still channel if need be, and create a gateway out, and why should he be threatened by Aes Sedia inside Far Madding when he can still channel?

 

BS has stated that if you are shielded from one power, you are shielded from all. I believe someone asked if this included the True Power and he confirmed that it did. (I will try to find the reference for you). I got the impression that his ta'vern effect (or perhaps his strength in the one power) has grown to such an extent that he could break free from that. I don't believe we were ever given any indication that Rand had reached his max strength. We see Rand completely demolish a Trolloc army, sending them packing. The Asha'man couldn't even keep track of all the weaves. I know Rand has said previously that he could do a dozen (maybe two?) weaves at once. I don't ever recall him using hundred (or more) at once. I'm thinking the pattern sensed the lack of strength for the Light and beefed Rand up or he could just be coming to the peak of his channeling potential (probably the later).

 

I didn't read it as HE was planning on making a gateway if things went bad. I read it as if he would have used the TP to balefire them, though he knew he wasn't going to need to. If he went there and they were DF's he could have known immediately and just had Cad make a gateway or he would have killed them. I think the scene was meant to show that he had truly changed. He wasn't afraid because his fear/paranoid problems, his problems with feeling like he had to be stronger then steel no longer apply. He can trust again. He can feel sorry, cry and laugh again. He showed with Egwene and then again in Far Madding that he was able to trust. It helps him knowing that he can now know who is a DF by looking at them. He he seen DF's Cadsuane could have made a gateway and he could have balefired them anyway. But he didn't. It is unclear at least in my mind what he thinks of ever touching the TP again or how much he knows of it.

 

It also played into the new prophecy we didn't know about. He fulfilled it. He was able to take their blows and not react. He stood by while a man, clearing planning to kill him pending his answer, asked him a question. It is because he can now trust. He has faith again in people. He has faith in himself. He fulfilled it without even knowing it and that tied the Borderlander rulers to him just like that. He even said that had this scene occured earlier, he would have used balefire on them.

[Sasie]

The new Rand is the greatest disepointment in the whole book or even series for sure as far as I'm conserned. I miss dark Rand.

The beginning was a nice touch but he seems to have lost his common sense, experiances or spine when he regained his sanity. It does make sense for him to show regret for the way he handled some things before but not everything he did then was bad. Now he just walks around and looks/feels sad for every small thing he did and the only reason anyone seem to follow him at all is because his ta'vern nature makes everyone fall to their knees when he looks at them. It was a touching scene with Tam for sure but did he have to break down and cry infront of all the high lords and the army? Couldn't he at least done so in private?

 

I had hoped after TGS that we would see a Rand that would show some real leadership while making brilliant (Not insane) plans using the combined knowlegde of his past life and this one now that he finnally accept Lews Therin's memories as his own. All the planning he was able to do in TGS with LTT memories seems to have vanished though. Instead he just show up and blast everything that gets in his way. Was hard to care when Rand saved the remains of the borderlands army when he did it so easily with just the power. Even the Dark one no longer seems to be scary now that Rand is a demi god.

 

The worst part for sure was when Cadsuane showed up with the person he asked her to get and he gives Min that little speach on how happy he is that one innocent he thought he had killed was alive. Morgase used her speach on the world not being black or white on the wrong person. Rand seem to be the one that needs to hear it. The man was insane so get over the guilt honestly, we don't have another five books for him to recover from that and I rather not we have a crying Rand facing the dark one in the next book. I wouldn't be surprised if he started moaning about woman being in combat again after this.

[Sharaman]

I'm too bloody lazy to quote each person, so I will just reference a few things here.

 

To the man speaking about Rand having no fear when confronted with 13 aes sedia in Far Madding, or being shielded in Tar Valon, it's simply because he can wield the True Power. No special hokus pokus power no one knows about thats "for the light". He can still channel if need be, and create a gateway out, and why should he be threatened by Aes Sedia inside Far Madding when he can still channel?

 

BS has stated that if you are shielded from one power, you are shielded from all. I believe someone asked if this included the True Power and he confirmed that it did. (I will try to find the reference for you). I got the impression that his ta'vern effect (or perhaps his strength in the one power) has grown to such an extent that he could break free from that. I don't believe we were ever given any indication that Rand had reached his max strength. We see Rand completely demolish a Trolloc army, sending them packing. The Asha'man couldn't even keep track of all the weaves. I know Rand has said previously that he could do a dozen (maybe two?) weaves at once. I don't ever recall him using hundred (or more) at once. I'm thinking the pattern sensed the lack of strength for the Light and beefed Rand up or he could just be coming to the peak of his channeling potential (probably the later).

Rand may be stronger - in fact he is.

But he also said that the Far Madding Guardian only stopped OP.

The Guardian isn't a shield - it doesn't block channeling ability. It stops an OP channeler sensing the source, not using it.

If you have a well, you can channel in Far Madding.