Light Burn Me! : Annoying Female Characters

[Lynchgrinch]

Egwene is so annoying! How she changes her mind about things every few books, trys to controll Rand, chastises Nynaeve (who is the best female character WoT has ever produced) in T'A'R when she had NO AUTHORITY TO DO SO.

What makes me hate her most though is her being Aes Sedai to the core, all the running commentary like "I am the amyrlin", " I am the epitimy of the light, a true Aes Sedai" "these others are foolish".

 

Blah, it's all a load of crap! She is so easily peruadable, Pre Amyrlin that is.

She gave up braiding her hair straight away after leaving TR. It only tooker her a book and a half of living with Aiel to start thinking she was one of them. Then a few minutes of being told she was Aes Sedai and Amyrlin, she starts believing it!

Oh, How i HATE her! She realy does think she's "it".

 

Faile, if only her name was to be pronunced "Fail-Ee". I would be more apt. She's jelous, manipulative and has a very annoying manner about her. She treats Perrin like crap after all he does for her. Gah, i just hate to read about her. I dunno why everyone says she's half decent from ToM pre-release stuff. She still grates on me all the same.

The thing i actualy like about faile is the scen in tDR when perrin laughs at her because she calls herself "Mandarb" which is the name of lan's horse.

And who makes up names for themselves like "Falcon", if she was a guy with that name she'd get called a douchebag! can you immagine me going around calling myslef "hawk"??? I'd feel like an idiot!! i would be an idiot!!

 

And then she has Cha'Faile, her wee secret society for pretentious douches who want cheesey names too. i don't like faile.

 

Elayne....

 

Yeah she's snooty and snobby and has "the world revolves around me syndrome".

Her damn "chin raising" in the earlier books DID MY HEAD IN.

 

Then she completely ignored the fact that Mat saved her?!?!?! And needed Aviendha to tell her that this was wrong!!!

 

I never understood why Avi liked Elayne, she's way too awesome to be sister-wife with that spoilt queenling.

 

I don't hate Cadsuane persay. But i do find her annoying, the whole Aes Sedai supiriority complex is realy annoying. Rand showed her up good and propper though, so did Tam. Which was an awesome scene btw.

 

On a side not, NO ONE IS BETER THAN NYNAEVE, NO ONE!!!!

[Opal]

You know what I find interesting? I love the female characters in the books, for the past few books Rand has driven me insane. I can't stand him, he needs to hard, and he's not strong enough. Blah, shut up.

 

But sense this thread is about annoying female characters, I'll tell you some of mine.

 

I want Tuon to be collared so badly. You're the empress of the world and you know whats right, all channelers must be collared and everyone must be put in their places according to rank, and station in life, oh yeah? *snick* What do think now? Take the collar off if you can! HA! I want it done in front of as many Seanchan as possible too, try to hide that.

 

Faile; God really just shut up. The way she acts, all her games with Perrin drive me around the bend. The jealously is what gets me the most, he married you, he loves you, he chose you, now trust him you can't truly love someone with out trust. Suck it up, be a big girl.

 

Elayne is rash, for all her being taught to be a queen and play the game of houses, doesn't think things through. She has led a sheltered life in a lot of ways, she expects things to go her way. You can't blame her for that, not only is she royal, she is Aes Sedai now too. Even for all her adventures, she still knows very little about people and life. She is young, she leaps before she looks. Her pregnancy is fine example of that. She is the best possible queen for Andor. Of course she can't just say the dragon reborn gave me my throne, how many people in the US or UK or whatever would be happy to accept a leader that China put in power? She has to do it on her own.

 

Egwene, she rocks! I didn't like her in the first book, she was bossy and pushy for no reason. She has learned hard lessons, she was collared by the Seanchan, hunted by BA, taught discipline, endurance and honer by the WO. Siuan taught her politics and how to get things done. She, to me has grown the most. From a village girl to a powerful queen, more powerful than a queen. She is just what the world needs to get to TG.

 

Cadsuane; she rocks too, I would love to read just her life story. I'd love to write if it came to it, it would be so much fun!

[The Dirty Landry]

My favorite female character by far is Nynaeve. It used to not be that way, but as I've grown older I've appreciated her character more and more. Some of what I like about her, and I think Leigh Butler has mentioned this, is that when the crap hits the fan she is a lot like Mat. They are extremely loyal and extremely competent when it comes down to it, despite their whining and complaining at other times.

 

I love Egwene for her ambition and her competence, however her attitude towards other characters is what I hate about her. Along with her treatment of Rand, I was indignant that she says she will chew Nynaeve out for disappearing. Last I remember, even the Amyrlin Seat doesn't have control of what a AS can and cannot do. Nynaeve isn't some slave to be at Egwene's beck and call whenever she wants. Egwene, just like Gawyn, seems to believe the worst of everybody without any regard for facts or evidence. Maybe that's why they are so in love with each, haha.

 

I'm kind of meh on Tuon. Its just hard for me to like any character that believes any type of slavery is ok.

 

Cadsuane has gone up and down for me as I've read the series. I used to hate her guts, but on this last reread I think I've come to really appreciate her character more and more. She is the most competent AS alive and I think genuinely has the right intentions towards Rand. She wants what is best for him and for the world as well, which she has said straight out. There are times where I definitely don't agree with her methods, but she is a product of a matriarchal world, so I can understand where they come from.

 

The only time I've actually had a really bad opinion of Elayne is in KoD. She comes up with the worst possible plan to storm a house full of DF's and BA, which results in 2 dead Aes Sedai. Then because of her capture, she loses several hundred soldiers. To cap it all off, she seems to show NO remorse about the stupidity of her actions. Why didn't you take angreal to protect you from being shielded, or better yet just start a fire inside the house and smoke everyone out?

[mikedh]

You know who isn't on this list?

 

*Moiraine - total flipping BAMF

*Aviendha - super BAMF

*Nynaeve - straight up BAMF

 

I love these women. My hate rating for the rest:

 

Egwene

Egwene

Faile

Elayne

Egwene

 

I didn't put Tuon on the list because she's also pretty sweet, I love her because I love Mat and... you get it. Cadsuane is super Aes Sedai and on such a higher level than the rest of the wimp AS that she can go ahead and be bossy/arrogant, she's lived longer than any other AS alive. Min is kinda stupid in some parts (entire reason Rand lost his hand, absolutely 0 reason for her to come to the Seanchan meeting) but she doesn't think highly of herself at all, and she is dedicated to Rand.

[Barid Bel Medar]

You know who isn't on this list?

 

*Moiraine - total flipping BAMF

*Aviendha - super BAMF

*Nynaeve - straight up BAMF

 

I love these women. My hate rating for the rest:

 

Egwene

Egwene

Faile

Elayne

Egwene

 

Not sure what BAMF means.

 

But this thread is discussion on the characters that are most hated, not the awesome ones. Very few hate the others, so I am not putting them in. I mean, feel free to if you hate them, post why. But i was just doing the commonly hated characters

[Tom Sawyer]

Watch Maj use his mighty Edit Hammer on foul language.

[Sagacious Lu]

Not sure what BAMF means.

 

That's the sound Nightcrawler makes when he teleports.

[Lynchgrinch]

 

 

I worked it out for myself ....so proud

[Moon Sedai]

I don't hate the "main" female characters in WoT.

True, they do things that annoy me.

 

I think Faile is hated more for her pushing around of Perrin and because perrin spent something (like what, 3 books ?) whining because she was kidnapped. I hate that she killed Masema, because I was looking forward to rand kicking Masema's a$$.

Faile is pushy, and she acts like she knows better than Perrin when it comes to leading men/affairs of state, but, well. . . she does. WAIT! Faile is the only surviving child of one of the Great Living Generals, and watched and listened to her father intently, learning a lot about how he ran his army, and helped her cousin run the country.

She is better educated than Perrin (She was taught how to run the family estates, and knew something about running a Noble house.)

True, Faile tells Perrin what to do, but when the Pattern pushed him to the role of a Noble, (which he denies), she is there to help him. I think he needed a pushy woman, or a "common" woman, when the people of TR/Refugees/whatever started coming to TR, he would have had no idea what to do with them when they treated him like a lord.

As much as she is hated, she is kind of needed.

 

Egwene serves as the female counterpoint to Rand. As he learns to channel, so does she. They both rise to tremendous heights of the power, where the Egwene and Rand we see at the end of TGS are not the same that left the Two Rivers. She is a hypocrite, true. She is "Aes Sedai to her core," true. But, she is {now} the "most powerful woman in the world." If she didn't act Aes Sedai to her core, the Ajahs/Hall would walk over her.

She wants to 'tie' the female channelers to the tower, but, since Eggy is metaphorically representative of a new era in the White Tower, she is going to have a tower under her that does not operate under the delusion of being the only female channelers in Randland. I think that she wants the other channeling groups, Wise Ones, Wind Finders, Kin, to have respect due to them as channelers by mainstream society (i.e- the white tower). In a way, though, this is WoT version of fighting racism in the channeling circles.

I think the intention is good, but the carrying out/next age will be bad. The groups of women will adapt and change, as some already have, to a new vision for channelers, taking away the distinctiveness of the cultures and making a Borg-like blend of female channelers.

 

Elayne. I like that Elayne refused to let Rand, her love, put her in power. She wants to rule Andor not because a man put her there, but because it is her place. (and, if people knew the babes were Rand's, that would be the same effect- We know she's TDR's Ladylove, so we better assent to her power, now). Elayne is uppity, true, but she was raised to be a queen. She is naieve, expects the world to act as she wants, because of her background. With all her flaws, Elayne is the one leader who is claiming her nation independent of Rand. New leaders in other nations are sweating and bowing to Rand (even plotting revenge/revolts at some times), but Elayne is her own leader. Rand doesn't change Andor laws (just co-ops a small chunk of her nation for the BT.) While she will probably rule Cairhein because 'rand put her there,' she is ruling her birthright of Andor because she was the Daughter Heir.

I can respect her for not relying on a man to give her power.

 

Cadsuane. She's the oldest living Aes Sedai, and the most powerful woman of the tower (until the current batch of wondergirls). She's used to people jumping when she says frog. It's been the case for centuries. With Moiraine gone, Rand needed an AS that wouldn't let him push her around. However, She is, like Tam said, a Bully. She tried so hard to help rand that she pushed him away. I don't like what she's done to Rand, but she did (ultimately) help Rand by leading him to the actions at the end of TGS.

 

Nynaeve- the general complaints about Nynaeve shift after she married. After marriage, with Seafolk vows, she was put in a place where she could not bully her husband, like she wanted to. She and Lan are good together. I like that Nynaeve tries to remain more true to herself than the other TR crew. She adapted her style, and became Aes SEdai, but, Nynaeve is still Nynaeve. (Even Tam recognized it in TGS- calling her Wisdom.) before her marriage, she was blocked, agitated, and angry, because she had to be angry. Once she broke her need to be angry, she became a pleasant person to be around (generally speaking).

 

Tuon- I don't like that she thinks of Mat as Toy, but, that's how she first met him, as Tylin's pet, Tylin's Toy. It's really hard to change what you call someone (in your head, and even out loud) once you've got a name pinned down for them. (I have a friend who started going by her middle name in College that I still call "Alice" in my mind, and have to force myself to call her "Lilly" when we meet face-to-face, but to me, she's always Alice.)

True, she's Seanchan, a slave owner, and set in her ways. True, she's had to survive assassination attempts, plots by siblings and other nobles, and is a hard woman. But, in some ways, she's every bit as sheltered and vulnerable as Elayne in some ways. (Never been in a bar?)

 

With all the flaws in the women of the wheel of time, there are good things about them too. Faile is educated enough to help Perrin become the leader the Pattern made him. Egwene is the first Amrylin in centuries that might be able to make major changes in Tower policy. Elayne shows that she can be a leader without depending on the Dragon. Cadsuane helped rand, even if her means were crappy. Nynaeve reamins truest to her roots. Tuon shows hints of vulnerability in a woman of great power.

[moroten]

Nynaeve is awesome, always liked her and always will. She has evolved but kept on being her old self aswell.

 

The thing that REALLY bugs me with Egwene is how she often states/thinks that he is not ready to rule without AS guidance. That he THINKS he is smart but truly cant be(since he is not doing what she wants him to do). Never does she take into account that he was trained by Moiraine, probably one of the most skilled AS when it comes to handling nobles, seeing as she was a noble herself.

[Hadilmir]

Egwene.. she was awesome in tGS starting with the meeting with Verin, but her thoughts right before bug me. A lot. As others said, she has become Aes Sedai to the core, even as she was a Wise One's Apprentice to the core before.

How could they encourage the Kin or the Wise Ones to tie themselves to the Aes Sedai if the Aes Sedai themselves were not unified? The two White Towers would become opposed forces, confusing the leaders of men as rival Amyrlins tried to use nations for their own purposes. Allies and enemies alike would lose their awe of the Aes Sedai, and kings very well might start up their own centers for women talented in channeling.

 

Sarcasm mode=on

Oh dear. Poor leaders of men, they might have to think rather than unquestioningly doing what Aes Sedai tell them. Clearly a united Tower will not try to use nations for its own purposes (it will succeed, not just try, right?). Oh, what's this? People might lose their awe of Aes Sedai? Why, next thing you know, Aes Sedai might be treated as mere equals! Gods no more, oh the shame! Oh, oh, how horrible, we might not have a monopoly anymore!

/sarcasm end

 

It would be one thing if she were honestly concerned that (somehow) schools around the continent might result in inferior teaching, or a higher percentage of women dying from training too fast, but she shows no sign of continuing in that vein of thought, only that "kings" might dare set up Towers of their own. The nerve!

Did you really miss the entire point of that thought? Think for a second, what would happen if a U.S. nuclear arsenal was raided and suddenly nuclear missiles became privatized. Give a hundred people in power superweapons (channelers) and the entire Westlands destroys itself.

 

Also, tell me this: How many of you had confidence in Rand's ability to lead in LoC? He was doing fairly bad politically if you ask me, and that's when Egwene last saw him. I repeat, that's when Egwene last saw Rand. Why can no one understand this?

 

Still disappointed Min isn't listed...

[PCL]

Cadsuane. She accuses Rand of arrogance when she is the Mother of it.

[Duskfire]

Also, tell me this: How many of you had confidence in Rand's ability to lead in LoC? He was doing fairly bad politically if you ask me, and that's when Egwene last saw him. I repeat, that's when Egwene last saw Rand. Why can no one understand this?

 

I thought he was doing alright with what he was up against. The main problem really was that he lost Thom and Moiraine. I get your point though; Rand hasnt been giving people around him a good impression. Especially in TGS.

 

Cadsuane. She accuses Rand of arrogance when she is the Mother of it.

 

But that doesnt negate that he is :P Takes one to know one, so to speak.

 

The female characters annoy me to, but I think part of the problem is that we see inside Rands head so much, and we agree with what he is going through, that when he does something wrong, its easy to look pass. While its the opposite with the girls. Like how cool Darkrand was meant to be; he was close to alienating his allies, yet we take it in stride because Rand is well, Rand. While in Elaynes case, if she does something similar, she would be immediately condemned by every reader ever.

[anotherfingolfin]

Egwene- lot of positives if you don't look at her as a whole. lots of cool moments, but her character progression has felt the most flimsy to me. her sanctimoniusness and also her attitude towards others, especially rand, really irk me. and the fact that she has gawyn. that really says something.

 

Nyn- started out as annoying/petulant. has grown, yet stayed remarkably grounded. her overbearingness i don't mind so much, because it is explicitly obvious to other characters. unlike other female characters who think they know better, but are never called out on it. also, like rand says, she genuinely cares. i sort of see her as the mothering older-sister.

 

Elayne- came into her own as a character during the andor storyline. sadly, it is the general un-uncoolness and verbosity of this plotline which negatively reflects on her. plus, as has been said, she is self-centered and doesn't care about consequences to others. people like to point out her refusal to have the throne handed to her as awesome. while cool, it should be seen in perspective. whoever got the throne to andor would have to be at the very least accepted by the dragon. i mean, if the dragon didn't like the ruler of andor, he could just steamroll over the place again. so, indirectly, ultimate authority lies with rand, regardless.

 

Min- took her long enough to realise that she wasn't really superior to rand (ie- knew more, had better judgement). hate the fact that her childishness cost him a hand. but she gets him, and cares for him more than anything else, and i kinda like her a lot more post TGS. i feel she will have an intense bad-ass moment at some point. she has been made out to be pretty ineffectual (besides the viewings), and has started to realise how useless she is in the bad-assery departemnt. hence she is due for a moment of awesome.

 

Faile- childish, and pretty weird when it comes to relationships. also suffers from the really long annoying plotline. don't think that her killing the prophet was a good thing. enough has been said about her.

 

Tuon- bad only in so much as the Seanchen as a whole are bad. with the slavery, scoffing at things that they do not know, and refusal to accept rands alliance. personally, she is aweseome. her POV's have been some of the most enjoyable.

 

Cads- ugh. she is awesome in many ways, no doubt. but in a world full of sanctimonious, overbearing, arrogant females, she is the epitome. i see her importance, and how some thing she does are important, but it's a case of the destination not justifying the journey. nothing in her pov's suggest that she is secretly really nice but conducts her self in the manner she does, solely to get desired results. her being banished and her being put in her place by tam, are two of my favourite moments.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Most people dislike Cadsuane because she bosses people around. (Like who the hell bosses around the person who is trying to save the world when he screws it up majorly?) They also dislike her because she thinks that she knows best (Who cares about what you know bitch? I mean, I am the Dragon Reborn and you are just a lowly Aes Sedai who has lived a paltry 300 years while I have lived only 20.) They also dislike her because they think that she doesn't care about Rand. (I mean, she only wants him to learn how to feel emotions again and become human in soul again, and she only promised that she would do things only for his own good.)

 

People also dislike Egwene because she's so Aes Sedai-like. (OMG! I am the Amrylin Seat and the leader of the Aes Sedai! Now I must help prepare the Aes Sedai for the coming storm - they're so unprepared for it. Also, the world must look to us for guidance because we're Aes Sedai and we know more than all the other people, which is in fact true.) Egwene is a hypocrite, or so they say. (As is everyone else in Randland, come on!) I mean, to lead an Aes Sedai, you have to become one to be able to change one.

 

Many people also dislike Elayne because she 'claimed the throne in her own name' and because she said that Rand had 'no right to give her the Lion Throne'. (I mean, if she recieved the Lion Throne from Rand, nothing would happen. ONLY that all the other houses would not stand for her and the countryside would be rife with strife because they don't want the Dragon Reborn's 'puppet' on the throne, and thus the loss of what an entire nation's can offer...)

[Moon Sedai]

I just re-read my post, and realized that while I said a lot, i actually didn't say what I'd meant to.

Yeah, i listed why people hate the female characters.

But, all i was really trying to say is despite the negatives, i actually like them,

and think they are vital to the plot.

 

 

Only female character that truly cheeses me off is Nicola.

[Tom Sawyer]

 

Tuon- bad only in so much as the Seanchen as a whole are bad. with the slavery, scoffing at things that they do not know, and refusal to accept rands alliance. personally, she is aweseome. her POV's have been some of the most enjoyable.

 

My main complaint with Tuon isn't even the slavery thing - although that turns my stomach, it is a general complaint against Seanchan as a whole and not a specific member of the Empire. What really bothers me is when she was with Mat, he was running around ambushing and killing a bunch of Seanchan soldiers and she never said or did anything about this. She is supposed to be the ruler of Seanchan and her lack of concern for the lives of the soldiers under her command is simply despicable.

 

As many complaints as I have with Elayne, if Rand were running around killing off a bunch of Andoran soldiers (not DFs working for Rahvin, but regular soldiers wandering around doing regular soldiering jobs), there's no way that she'd just idly stand by and watch because she was curious about him because she'd heard a prophecy that they'd get married.

 

Tuon's actions in this regard show her as someone who's unworthy of the loyalty of any of the soldiers under her command and someone who's totally unqualified for any kind of leadership position.

 

Also, she's a petulant twit and extraordinarily annoying and while she does have a few moments of awesomeness, they seem totally out of character from the rest of her scenes. I just think she's poorly written.

[anotherfingolfin]

@ tom sawyer, now that you mention it, that bit did irk me, but there are several reasons, if not justifications of this. in the seanchen world view, from her perspective, individual soldiers are probably akin to insects. like it or not. anyway, from her point of view, getting to know the enigma mat was much more important, strategically. and also, remember how those very soldiers could very well claim that price on her head? further, i dunno what percentage of said soldiers were actually Seanchan, and how many were local levies. i actually liked her intentions to get hold of the new crosebow designs.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, that's kind of what I meant. She has absolutely no concern for her soldiers and just sees them as insects that don't matter at all. Concern for the wellbeing of one's citizens is the primary trait to look for in a leader and she doesn't have it. She's a petulant child who has an empire to play with, not somebody worthy of respect who will bring anything of value to her position. Perhaps, due to the nature of Seanchan society, one would be hard pressed to find anyone who'd be in a position to become Empress who'd be any better - sort of like most of the Tairen High Lords are useless tools who bring discredit to their nation - but that doesn't make her attitude any more worthy of respect.

 

There was also never any evidence that this was some kind of strategic consideration on her part or she was worried about capture and she considered it the lesser of two evils or anything like that. She just plain didn't care and that's enough to make me write her off as worth anything more than scorn and disdain.

 

Also, she's just really annoying and that makes me view everything about her in the worst possible light.

[Duskfire]

Ya, that's kind of what I meant. She has absolutely no concern for her soldiers and just sees them as insects that don't matter at all. Concern for the wellbeing of one's citizens is the primary trait to look for in a leader and she doesn't have it. She's a petulant child who has an empire to play with, not somebody worthy of respect who will bring anything of value to her position. Perhaps, due to the nature of Seanchan society, one would be hard pressed to find anyone who'd be in a position to become Empress who'd be any better - sort of like most of the Tairen High Lords are useless tools who bring discredit to their nation - but that doesn't make her attitude any more worthy of respect.

 

But thats just how the Seanchan are raised. Thats not her fault she is like that. Regardless of whether it is right or wrong, all of Seanchan society is like that. We as a people don't agree with it, but I dont agree with alot of things previous civilisations did - doesn't mean that anyone can be held accountable for what they were raised up in. We have already seen through her POV that she isn't an evil selfish wench who delights in the torture of others or anything. She just considers human troops to be expendable. And there are many people throughout history who were seen as leaders who shared this trait to.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, so what? The Tairen High Lords were just raised to think that peasants existed to be overtaxed and exploited and common girls were things to be raped and thrown away whenever they felt in the mood. That doesn't mean that we need to preface all our comments about how Rand was right to change all their laws and limit their powers with addendums about how it's Tairen society that's the problem and how their assassination plots were justified because they were working to uphold traditional Tairen values against someone who was trying to subvert valuable aspects of their society. They're just dicks and understanding the rationales behind their dickishness doesn't make them any less dickish.

 

It's the same with Tuon. Understanding the rationales behind her dickishness doesn't make her any less of a dick. She's no better than an average Tairen High Lord who sees her population as nothing but a bunch of expendable pawns to be used and sacrificed in pursuit of her own selfish agenda despite there being nothing about her beyond an accident of her birth that makes her worth sacrificing anybody for. She's a selfish, petulant little twit and the fact that she's not particularly better or worse than any other useless Seanchan noble isn't really a point in her favour.

[soccerscott]

the only thing i've found annoying about the females, is the hypocrisy. Also, "MOST" seem to refuse change. Some are changing I admit, and maybe that's the intention...so in the last books it's more dramatic or something. But I can't say that it bothers me too much...combine them all and *POOF* my wife.

[capuga]

The female character that annoys me the most is easily Egwene. This is for two main reasons - her hypocrisy and her easily shifting loyalties.

 

First, the hypocrisy. There are two instances that really bother me. One, she criticizes Elaida (for wanting) and the Black Ajah hunters (for actually performing) an obedience oath. This is after she blackmailed sisters into swearing fealty to her. And with the Three Oaths a spoken vow is almost as binding as one given on the Oath Rod. It would have been nice if we had seen some kind of justification for this contradiction in her POV but she doesn't appear to even consider this. Instead we just get blatant hypocrisy and her holier than thou attitude. Secondly, in tGS several Aes Sedai ask her how she would deal with Rand and she impresses them with rational, thoughtful answers and indicates that by being free he has done many good things such as restoring order in Carhien and uniting several peoples under one leader. She later criticizes Elaida for trying to kidnap Rand and asks her how she thought he would fulfill any prophesies while locked in the tower. However, the words she uses to impress the Aes Sedai and her own beliefs do not match up. In several of her POVs we see that she believes Rand running around free without a White Tower lease is something that needs to end.

 

Second, the easily shifting loyalties. The first instance of this is how easily she shifts her loyalties from Rand to the Aes Sedai and later the Wise Ones. Rand is a man that she loves and spent almost her whole life thinking she was going to marry. However, after very little time with either group it becomes obvious that she begins to put the interests of Aes Sedai and Wise Ones ahead of Rand. She sides with them during any argument. She participates when Moraine and the Wise Ones spy on him with the power and in his dreams. She won't share any information the Wise Ones or Moraine discuss with Rand. Very early in the books its hard to believe that Egwene ever had any feelings for Rand at all.

 

Then look at how easily her interests shift from the Wise Ones to the Aes Sedai. Look at what she knows up through tFoH. The White Tower is apparently rife with Darkfriends. It is full of undeservedly arrogant women who believe they know everything and act foolishly when anyone shows this is not true (such as the way they treat the Wise Ones in T'A'R). The White Tower is broken. Most Aes Sedai appear to be foolish and incompetent. And how long as she even spent at the White Tower? A couple of months before she was tricked by Liandrin and maybe a couple of months more before she leaves to hunt the Black sisters? She spends at least close to as much time with the Wise Ones. And look at how much more superior that time is. The Wise Ones act with intelligence and competence. They show Egwene respect. They teach her skills that the White Tower hasn't had in hundreds of years. They actually are deserving of respect because of their actions and not just their reputation. Then look at Egwene's plans for these women that she supposedly respects and cares for and that have shown their superiority to Aes Sedai. She plans to subjugate them to the White Tower. Her intention is to tie all channeling groups together. Co-operation amongst channeling groups is a worthy goal, however, her POVs make it obvious that she intends all other groups to be under White Tower leadership and control. This is despite the fact that her own experience should have shown that the White Tower doesn't deserve to lead the Wise Ones. Elayne and Nyneaves reports should have shown her that the Kin and Windfinders also are very competent women. Other than possibly the Kin, all of these groups appear to be at least as competent as the White Tower (and I hate the Sea Folk) and would resent being put in a position of inferiority. But she is Aes Sedai now so neither her childhood love or the Wise Ones that actually earned her respect matter much now.

 

One more Egwene item that irritates me - her anger at Rand for allowing Asha-man to bond Aes Sedai. Would she have preferred the alternative? Those sisters were sent to kill everyone at the Black Tower. The Asha-man would have been completely justified to have destroyed every sister but did not because of Rand's orders not to harm Aes Sedai. Rand then goes a further step and offers to allow the Aes Sedai to bond Asha-man to equal out the numbers. However, this isn't good enough for Egwene because the almighty White Tower must be superior to everyone else.

 

By the end of tGS it is hard to argue that Egwene is not awesome. But I never felt that her character deserved that awesomeness. I compare it to a person with poor money management skills that wins the lottery. You can't argue that they're rich, but the didn't really earn that money.

 

I don't really dislike Elayne as a character all that much, I think most of my dislike for her is mostly because I find her plot line with all the politicking to be a little dry and boring. I do find her relationship with Rand to be the least believable. And she is prone to be a little dramatic - She compares Birgitte's sadness at losing her memories of Gaidal to how she would feel if she lost Rand when Birgitte and Gaidal have been lovers for thousands of years and Elayne and Rand have spent about two weeks together. She also compares Vandene losing her sister (who have been together 200 plus years) to losing Aviendha (who has been her sister for a couple of months). She is a little foolish and boring but not really all that bad.

 

I actually found myself respecting Faile a little more on my current reread. She is often immature in her relationship with Perrin (mostly regarding her jealously and her thought that a TR man should know how to behave like a Saldean even if you never explain your feelings to him) but she does have Perrin's best interests at heart and she shows strength and competence in her leadership and during her captivity. It is not the character's fault that the Shaido plot line dragged out longer than it should have.

[Bob T Dwarf]

The problem with all of the characters, male and female alike is that we've lived with them through twelve books and twenty years. We know their faults too intimately. We've had too much time with them. It's kind of like the old adage, fish and guests begin to smell after three days.

 

We've all stayed too long at the fair, and everybody's patience is strained to the breaking point.

 

Truly, this series cannot end soon enough. We all need a break from these people.

[Shard]

Min- took her long enough to realise that she wasn't really superior to rand (ie- knew more, had better judgement). hate the fact that her childishness cost him a hand. but she gets him, and cares for him more than anything else, and i kinda like her a lot more post TGS. i feel she will have an intense bad-ass moment at some point. she has been made out to be pretty ineffectual (besides the viewings), and has started to realise how useless she is in the bad-assery departemnt. hence she is due for a moment of awesome.

 

I think in part Jordan wanted to keep Min from being an unbalanced character she is the only one with visions after all. However I feel her real redeeming moment, because as far as I'm concerned getting Rand to lose his hand is the only thing against her, will be when she figures out what Harid Fel was going to tell Rand. She's been reading his books and other books on the subject matter. I have never found her annoying she seems to be one of the more sensible female characters putting aside the whole Rand losing a hand.

 

Really though are any of these characters more annoying then Eliada or Savanna?