Super Spoiler PoV

[wvlr2]

I am SO glad that Graendal did not die in Rand's attack. She has been made out to be so smart - it would have been real lame for his tactic to work.

 

Not sure how I feel by the level of "surprise" she exibited by his tatic. With all the clues of what he was up to, I would not have been expecting her to be so surprised. Also, with him boroadcasting that he was specifically looking for her, it seemed odd to not have anything that mentioned her planting a spy in his proximity - even just one just in the household staff where he was currently staying.

 

I did like seeing her scared nearly senseless by Rand's "cleverness". To me surprised and scared are two different things. Graendal has always been one that is easy to scare and this attack aimed directly at her, even if it missed, would surely "scare" her.

 

 

Also great that Rand did get a Forsaken and a BA in the deal. I can't think of anyone I would rather go than Aran'gar and Delana.

[Luckers]

I am SO glad that Graendal did not die in Rand's attack. She has been made out to be so smart - it would have been real lame for his tactic to work.

 

Not sure how I feel by the level of "surprise" she exibited by his tatic. With all the clues of what he was up to, I would not have been expecting her to be so surprised. Also, with him boroadcasting that he was specifically looking for her, it seemed odd to not have anything that mentioned her planting a spy in his proximity - even just one just in the household staff where he was currently staying.

 

I did like seeing her scared nearly senseless by Rand's "cleverness". To me surprised and scared are two different things. Graendal has always been one that is easy to scare and this attack aimed directly at her, even if it missed, would surely "scare" her.

 

 

Also great that Rand did get a Forsaken and a BA in the deal. I can't think of anyone I would rather go than Aran'gar and Delana.

 

 

Although the funny thought is that she was mostly impressed with the fact that he'd tracked her, when that was mostly Nynaeve's doing.

[GB]

graendal POV in the prologue was the best i think, perrin i was a bit disappointed.

[perrin51]

The main flaw that all of the Forsaken have is under estimating the Randlanders. We have seen this in just about every POV from them. The funny thing is, that arrogance is what usually kills them. Graendal was arrogantly surprised that he was capable of figuring out where she was. She is very clever and out of instinct used a proxy that was available to do her work for her. I think that this close call and the personal loss of her pretties and objects of power, will cause her to do something rash and perhaps out of character. She may actually confront Nynaeve or somehow attack Rand in an overt way that we would never think her capable of.

[ghenjei]

So maybe we see Seanchan now? Given that Graendel arrived in the morning while it was early evening in Arad Domon?

 

That was the first Gateway that she opened. She let that one close when Aran'gar surprised her. The second one she created and used left her on a ridge behind where Natin;s Barrow used to be. She may still go there, but I don't see why.

 

 

I stand corrected. Any bet as to where she's going to hide out now? Does she infiltrate Rand's inner-circle or stay in the shadows?

[lsm]

graendal POV in the prologue was the best i think, perrin i was a bit disappointed.

it was a good POV and yea probably the best, mostly IMO because when i first read the start of the POV my heart jumped at the possible resolution to the graendal question. glad she's alive, and neat she's got the power as well

[Lynander]

Haven't read the prologue yet, but I can't say I'm surprised Graendal is alive. Not sure if I posted it or not, if I did it's in the older prediction thread from DM7? I think. Sounds like Graendal will go after Nyn or Min. Makes me believe that Avi will actually be the one to return just in the nick of time to save things. Not sure if the numbers add up, but all the main characters from here on out should find themselves taking out one of the Chosen.

[DottieGirl]

She was lucky. She didn't figure out the balefire thing until the last minute, which leaves me wondering why she had Delana do the Compulsion in the first place. Makes no sense. There was an explanation given for Aran'gar, but Delana? In retrospect, it has holes in it.

I agree it didn't make a ton of sense. If you feel comfortable revealing your presence to Rand by the use of Compulsion, you may as well do it yourself. At least, however, Mr. Sanderson won't have to retcon some aspects of it. Nynaeve seemed to realize the weave was different than on the chandler's apprentice, or at least more subtle, which would be explained since Delana had woven it and not Graendal. Perhaps one of the group will convince themselves that Graendal is still alive given that difference, or at least be willing to accept that she might still be alive. Ironic that given Graendal's ruse of having a saidin woven Compulsion that Rand didn't even notice it.

[Sentinel78]

I'm sad to say that Min is starting to look like she has a target on her head. She's Graendal's most obvious target, unless she can figure out Elayne is carrying Rand's babies. "Lighter than a Feather" has implications for Rand and Lan, but could actually be the chapter where Min dies (probably killed by Graendal, after this POV), and Rand can't give up and stop fighting because "duty is heavier than a mountain". In other words, the Borderland saying doesn't need to imply dealing with your own death, but the death of loved ones as well. I really hope not, I like Min. Min's visions support some measure of protection for Elayne and Aviendha, i.e., they will live to have Rand's babies.

 

No explicit protection for her in Viewings / Foretellings, except possibly Nicola's Foretelling that implies Min will be on a boat with "he who is dead yet lives" along with Elayne and Aviendha, and 3 women on a funeral pyre, that suggests Rand dies first.

[Duskfire]

I admit, I was one of those who was extremely suss about her survival. I still am not a fan of it. Just seems a bit... I dont know. The idea of her still being alive is cool, Graendal was always a great Forsaken and hopefully she actually does something, especially with her ability TP. But the whole scene just seems really lucky, like she inherited taverness or something :P

[The Desert Pea]

I could see the book ending with Graendal coming for Min now, and Rand sacrificing himself to save her. That way the last line of the book can be "The Dragon Reborn is dead." :p Either way, it sounds like Graendal is getting prepared to do some serious damage.

[Rufae]

Seeing how she has the TP now, she can strike at Nyn or Min before anyone is even aware since no one can sense TP channeling. Since Rand can use teh TP through his link with Moridin, can he possibly sense TP usage? Maybe tha tis how the attack on Min/Nyn is thwarted.

[TreeJoe]

True Power is not able to be sensed, even by other users.

 

I found it interesting how casually she used it though....previously, it had been said to be scary to use due to it's addictive nature. It made it seemed feared to be used by the Forsaken, though obviously it seems like an incredible tool. Her POV was MUCH more natural about using the True Power, and she showed that Aginor used it extensively....which makes alot of sense.

[TreeJoe]

More than anything, I think the scene finally showed how truly smart Graendal is....not just raw intelligence, or strategy, but she figured out Rand's plan in a VERY short period of time, tracked him down, realized the implications, etc.

 

For those wondering why she used Delana...it's not obvious, but I think I have a good theory: Graendal was frightened to death that Rand tracked her down, that Rand KNEW she was at Natrin's Burrow. And she believed he had someone who could "read" compulsion.

 

If she compelled Ramshalan, and Rand's reader knew it was Graendal, then she would have confirmed to Rand that she was at the fortress (bearing in mind she didn't know that Rand was ACTUALLY THERE at that point).

 

So she used Delana and, in doing so, did not actually prove to Rand that she was within the fortress.

 

It was a brilliant move, if things went a different way. For example: If Nynaeve "read" the compulsion and said it was from someone else, then Rand would not have proof that Graendal was there. He would not believe he had tracked her down.

[MagnusDahlerNorling]

I am also mystified as to why she chose to let Delana do the compulsion instead of doing it herself. It seems kind of random, and is only justified in retrospect when she leaves her to be balefired. She was able to remove her own compulsion from Ramshalan when she had "bonded" the dove, so that should not be an obtrusion, and she did have to remove her own compulsion for a reason. Maybe she didn't want to give Nynaeve another case study for how her compulsion worked, and just let a less skilled person do some random stuff to Ramshalans mind to confuse Nynaeve.

 

Edit: Also what the guy above me said.

[Jim Millen]

Finally thought I'd register so I could get involved in this discussion - think I'll be in the minority using a real name, oh well!

 

Right - Graendal. As I posted earlier on the Tor spoiler thread, whilst it might be a little contrived, none of her actions in this prologue seem at all out of character or unlikely. Let's look at the facts:

 

1) She is shocked to have been located at all, even more so by Rand

2) Her first reaction is to gateway out, and only fear of the DO stops her

3) When she meets Ramshalan and Compels his thoughts, her immediate reaction:

 

The Dragon Reborn had found her.

 

He had sent a distraction for her.

 

He thought he could manipulate her.

 

So essentially, she already knows Rand is up to something - it doesn't matter that she's not expecting balefire.

 

4) She explicitly thinks about Nynaeve potentially being able to "read" her weaves of Compulsion.

 

5) Now later on as Delana is laying her Compulsion, Graendal's thoughts again:

 

Graendal needed to lay him a false trail, delay him...

 

So being naturally devious, she's trying to leave no trace of her own work.

 

6) She sends the dove to follow Ramshalan - no-brainer this one, try to find out as much as possible what your enemy is up to.

 

Put all of those together and I don't find it at all implausible that Graendal escapes - especially as, even with all her precautions, she still only just makes it. She's seriously underestimated Rand's ruthlessness, but only mistook his endgame - from the moment her alarm sounded, she was prepared & ready to bug out.

 

So anyway, I loved that PoV - and look forward to reading whatever Graendal has in mind for her revenge...

[yoniy0]

So. I like the fact that she survived, though not the way it happened. Like others, I feel her reasoning wasn't consistent. I also don't like that she was able to undo the level of Compulsion she used on Ramshalan without it leaving signs for Nynaeve. That whole arc seems to me like a very good idea that wasn't quite executed to perfection.

 

Anyways, I'd love for her to go after Nynaeve, only to realize too late that Nynaeve has that cool paralis net. Mat is also a good option. I think he'll make an exception for one of the Forsaken, if she's stupid enough to identify herself.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

This lends some weight to those who thought she had something to do with Elayne. Graendal does love the pretty ones, and the more important/powerful they are, the better.

 

Wouldn't it kick so much ass if Mat killed Graendal? Or Aviendha. Either one would rock. Moiraine...jeez, hasn't she killed enough of them by now? I feel like more would be cliche almost. Time for her to do something different. Cadsuane would be okay, but I'd rather Mat or Aviendha. :)

 

But yeah, could easily see Verin's letter saying something about plots on Elayne specifically, or the danger there.

 

 

 

As to Cadsuane being the one to take down Graendal, I am now predicting that the chapter "The End of a Legend" will involve just the opposite happening. Given all that has happened Graendal is going to have to take out someone close to Rand, and I really can't see it being one of his three girls or Nyn. Considering that Graendal is now gunning for Nyn my money is on her being the one ultimately take down the Forsaken. Given that Cadsuane has been kind of a mentor to Nyn this would certainly bring a personal touch to the showdown.

 

As for Mat, yes that would be pretty awesome and considering Mats popularity among the ladies this makes sense as I could see Graendal wanting him as one of her toys. I know the idea of a non-powered person taking out one of the Forsaken is a bit far fetched, but if there is anyone who is lucky enough to pull it off it would be Mat. Still my money is on Nyn.

[Chesus]

Gotta say that I'm thoroughly amused that Osan'gar and Aran'gar had relatively little impact and both got snuffed before they could really do much of anything. Osan'gar got wasted by Elza, who mistook him for just another DF, and Rand nuked Aran'gar while thinking he was getting Graendal.

 

Way to make the best of your second chances, guys.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Why would Greandal kill Cads in order to hurt Rand. Cads isn't exactly in Rands closest confidences.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

Why would Greandal kill Cads in order to hurt Rand. Cads isn't exactly in Rands closest confidences.

 

Right, very good question. Let me clarify, I don't think that Graendal will actually target Cads but more likely she will come to the aid of Min and/or Nyn when Gran attacks them. When I say it hurts Rand I just mean that Rand will be pretty pissed off about it, despite the fact that he is currently angry with Cads. From Gran's pov she will not have hit her primary target (unless she kidnaps one of both of them my money would be on Min) but she will have deprived al'Thor of a powerful ally and teacher.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

Gotta say that I'm thoroughly amused that Osan'gar and Aran'gar had relatively little impact and both got snuffed before they could really make much of an impact. Osan'gar got wasted by Elza, who mistook him for just another DF, and Rand nuked Aran'gar while thinking he was getting Graendal.

 

Way to make the best of your second chances, guys.

 

I don't know, considering the event at the end of POD I'd say the Osan'gar's actions had a pretty decent impact. Moreover, he was deeply involved in the Black Tower plot which is still going one despite his death well have to wait and see the ultimate result of his actions.

 

As for Osan'gar yeah her involvement with the Saladar AS was pretty much a big fail. Other than giving Egwene some major headaches she did very little to prevent the reunification of The Tower. Of course she did set Moggy free and who knows what impact that will ultimately have.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Gotcha now. Yeah quite likely or maybe Cads might try to make up for Semirhage, doesn't want that episode tarnishing her reputation. So she might even iniciate the confrontation.

 

And Mr Millen this is my real name.

[Jim Millen]

And Mr Millen this is my real name.

 

And a fine name it is too. No offense intended - an old habit from an old group to only ever use my real name online, stops me talking too much nonsense... well, most of the time!

[jemron]

Finally thought I'd register so I could get involved in this discussion - think I'll be in the minority using a real name, oh well!

 

Right - Graendal. As I posted earlier on the Tor spoiler thread, whilst it might be a little contrived, none of her actions in this prologue seem at all out of character or unlikely. Let's look at the facts:

 

1) She is shocked to have been located at all, even more so by Rand

2) Her first reaction is to gateway out, and only fear of the DO stops her

3) When she meets Ramshalan and Compels his thoughts, her immediate reaction:

 

The Dragon Reborn had found her.

 

He had sent a distraction for her.

 

He thought he could manipulate her.

 

So essentially, she already knows Rand is up to something - it doesn't matter that she's not expecting balefire.

 

4) She explicitly thinks about Nynaeve potentially being able to "read" her weaves of Compulsion.

 

5) Now later on as Delana is laying her Compulsion, Graendal's thoughts again:

 

Graendal needed to lay him a false trail, delay him...

 

So being naturally devious, she's trying to leave no trace of her own work.

 

6) She sends the dove to follow Ramshalan - no-brainer this one, try to find out as much as possible what your enemy is up to.

 

Put all of those together and I don't find it at all implausible that Graendal escapes - especially as, even with all her precautions, she still only just makes it. She's seriously underestimated Rand's ruthlessness, but only mistook his endgame - from the moment her alarm sounded, she was prepared & ready to bug out.

 

So anyway, I loved that PoV - and look forward to reading whatever Graendal has in mind for her revenge...

 

I agree wholeheartedly. Graendal is just too freaking smart to use Compulsion on a guy she knows will be reporting back to Rand. It wasn't a stretch for me to believe that she would have Delana do it; however, I thought that she was going to have to Compel Delana to Compel Ramshalan to get the actual Compulsion on him just right. Interesting that Delana already was able to do it pretty well; though If I remember correctly, Nyn did say that it wasn't as well done as other Compulsion she had seen from Graendal.