Perrin's PoV

[Luckers]

Discuss it now. Or rather, tomorrow when the Prologue comes out.

[algspkr]

I thought Perrin's dream was confusing. What was the point of it?

[lpfinch2006]

It seemed repetitive of Perrin in previous books... He SAYS he needs to stop being conflicted, but that won't stop him... I feel like he's never going to mature and progress as a character... why can't he just be awesome like he was in tSR and LoC... Perrin I want to like you again, but your prologue performance makes me question whether or not I'll ever be able to look forward to a Perrin POV chapter ever again...what the hell did that dream mean. Just that he's sad Aram had to die and the other two rivers men as well and that he needs to put the pieces together (figure stuff out?.... really perrin?... take 3 more books and you might figure out you're gay)? he's not about to go look for that axe again I bet, so he's stuck with the hammer, I just wish he'd get over it. You don't see Lan conflicted about riding to his death... Perrin just ride to yours as well... (unless you stop being a douche... then I hope you don't die in the last battle... i still have faith.

[Pandemonium]

I found this dream repetitive as well. I really hope that ToM can find somewhere new to go with this Man vs. Wolf theme because it seems that Perrin has progressed the least out of all major characters.

[Deadsy]

He annoyed me enough that I had to post 3 times about it. His "problems" are a pittance compared to almost every other character's, yet he's the one who dwells on them the most. We're going on 8 books now of the "I'm not a Lord" schtick. Get over it.

[Terez]

This is how I see the dream:

 

Perrin is trying to figure out what the hell he's supposed to be doing. The angsting is important because it's driving him toward that whatever-it-is, which Brandon promises will be really cool and clarify a lot of why Perrin's recent plotlines have been important despite appearances. Brandon mentioned when he skipped over this POV at DragonCon that it was 'really cool', and I think the way he sees it is clouded by the fact that he knows what's coming, while we don't.

 

One thing that was weird, though, was him saying that in the past, the Wolf Dream and his normal dreams were always separate. That's not true...a wolf was watching over him in normal dreams way back in TEOTW.

[seasnake]

Yeah, I agree that Perrin is going to pay off in Spades in this one, just like Egwene in the last.

[Deadsy]

Yeah, I agree that Perrin is going to pay off in Spades in this one, just like Egwene in the last.

 

Egwene's didn't need to pay off because I always liked reading her :P

[seasnake]

Yeah, I agree that Perrin is going to pay off in Spades in this one, just like Egwene in the last.

 

Egwene's didn't need to pay off because I always liked reading her :P

 

She did nothing for me until KoDs. Until then it was "I must make these women see me as something over than a know-nothing child even though I AM a know-nothing child." TGS was when she finally got me interested in her.

[ajfurst]

Not a Lord. Whinge.

Wish still a Blacksmith. Whinge.

Afraid of losing self to Wolf. Whinge.

Worried about Faile. Whinge.

 

Blah blah blah. So repetitive and all seen so many times. After 'The Return of Mat' (RJ version or close to) in Chapter 8, this is a far less inspiring start to the second of the two main character arcs in TOM.

[jemron]

I liked this POV. One of the most important things to me that I got from this is that Perrin CAN and very likely will completely separate himself from the Wolfbrother ability. If nothing else, the dream clearly indicated to me that:

 

1. Perrin "loses" himself to the beast within and may lose his humanity as long as he keeps the "axe" of violence in his heart. As long as Perrin keeps resorting to violence, he will eventually become a crazed wolf-man like that guy in tDR.

2. If Perrin embraces the hammer (meaning peace, and very likely, The Way of the Leaf) he will stay sane.

3. Though this wasn't necessarily foreshadowed here, this solidifies for me that Perrin will discover "The Song" and embrace the Way of the Leaf, if for no other reason than to escape the wolves.

 

I think part of the reason why Perrin seems lame is because we think that the ability to talk to wolves is really cool, and why is he against something so bada**. But the truth in the story is that Perrin will literally lose himself and go crazy if he keeps being violent and giving in to the "wolf within."

 

That's how I see it anyway. Actually, I don't necessarily want these things that I suggest to happen, because I want him to keep his Wolf abilities and learn to manage/control them as Elyas does, but I'm not sure that will work for Perrin's character.

 

Finally, to end my too long post, I agree that this will be the redemptive book for Perrin, as TGS was for Egwene to many of us.

[Ataxia]

I figured people would complain about Perrin accepting his fate, but how come no one is discussing the other events that happened?

 

Could the laughter mean one of the mind trapped forsaken are after Perrin? Both Mog/Cyd have talent in the dream world so its quite possible there will be a confrontation there.

 

Also, what are the pieces for? At first, I thought it was his ghosts haunting him because it was Aram, but then the next pieces were people who were still alive. Has there been bubbles of evil in the dream world? I remember that random noble was killed but thats about it.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Who's after Perfin. I reckon Lanfear/Cyndy. Wasn't there summit before in great hunt or dragon reborn with Oerrin and Lanfear.

I liked the chapter and Perrin has a much to deal with ad the others. Aram was wholly his fault, can't think of the others being at fault for simeones death. People died but they were doing there duty as in soldiers and aiel. And does any one else see a trial separation for the couple?

[Sentinel78]

"It is a thing of men," Perrin said.

Things of two-legs, of men. Always, it is a thing of men to you. What of things of wolves?

"I am not a wolf."

 

I might be looking for something that isn't there, but could Hopper be alluding to 'things' that wolves have access to or control over that Perrin doesn't know about?

[Duskfire]

I just dont like how he still has the same problems, he is still complaining about the same things, still not wanting to give into the wolves, etc etc. Perrin matured early in the series, but since then to me at leats he has gone backwards in terms of development, or at least stagnated. Mat used to be the worst in terms of that, but now he has far exceeded Perrin in growth. I am on book 4 of my re-read and Perrin is essentially the same! A little less wary, a little less frustrated, but still worried about the same things, still worried about this and that. Mats gotten over the whole being played by the Pattern, surely Perrin can to.

 

Its like what if Rand was still unable to accept that he was the Dragon Reborn. Thats what perrin is like now. He gained an awesome ability that he still hasnt come to terms with.

[DemandredFO]

I have mostly disliked Perrin, what's most annoying is that since tPoD, I believe, Elyas has been there. Surely he can ask how he's survived and besides he's Taveren, I doubt the pattern would let him go crazy. The whole Perrin thing is like if Mat got his answers from the Aelfinn and ran the other way, not toward Rhuidean. Mat complains but still does what is necessary, who knows how many people have died because perrin won't accept his abilities.

The figurines to me represented the opposite of what Faile told perrin. Her father said a general must care for the living, but perrin still cares for the dead too much.

[TreeJoe]

Rand changed from madness, channeling, and having certain duties forced onto him. How many scenes did we have with him struggling with madness and insanity?

 

Mat changed from many things, but part of that is from inheriting the memories of 1000s of leaders and men of command and battle

 

Perrin was a gentle guy who started killing people and interacting with wolves. He didn't even take on responsibility deliberately. He finds himself the leader of a nation (essentially), not liking what's happened with some of the people he took on (Aram, Two Rivers Folk). His camp believes he cheated on his wife while she was imprisoned. He feels distant from his beloved wife, like things aren't teh same. He's afraid of losing his humanity to something he can't yet control.

 

At the same time, I think Perrin's dream portends some signfiicant things. Usually, a normal dream would be a normal dream except he'd have a wolf watching over protecting him. He didn't consciously control the dream though. Tel'aran'rhiod would be full consciousness of the normal dream world. HIS dream was neither....it was partly his own dream, partly Tel'aran'rhiod (consciousness over surroundings), and there was a wolf in it.

 

I'm wondering if Perrin is going to have the ability to physically enter the dream world. A la reverse Slayer action :)

 

Also, when he was described as a medium height, stocky guy with a hard face, bulging muscles, and a huge axe, and he asked himself "Am I that imposing looking?" I literally thought to myself,

 

"That is badass."

 

I think he's going to start taking control of his surroundings soon. No way he's going Tinker.

[Naffy]

Ugh Perrin. I have no idea how he is going to be important. Those that say he is going to discover "the song" should go back and read TSR. This myth was created by the Aiel who no longer wanted to lug the Aes Sedai crap anymore. "The song" is simply the songs that the Aiel used to sing with the Ogier. Anyway, I hate this character so much that I don't hink he can redeem himself. I've always wondered what RJ thought about all the Perrin hate.

[MagnusDahlerNorling]

I feel that some part of what the dream told him is that he chose the axe over the hammer metaphorically when he chose to go to war, even though he threw away the physical axe. The dream was part of him dealing with the choices he had to meet in KoD. If there wasn't some kind of emotional response to what happened with Aram, he wouldn't be very believable as a character. I also agree that there are probably some foreshadowings here that we don't yet understand.

[Rufae]

I loved this POV. Perrin from Chapter 1 of EotW, was described as someone who sits and ponders and deliberates. If he did otherwise, it would be out of character. This scene is classic Perrin and is setting up a fantastic finish to his POV.

[Sanctume]

From the TOM synopsis...

Perrin Aybara is now hunted by specters from his past: Whitecloaks, a slayer of wolves, and the responsibilities of leadership. All the while, an unseen foe is slowly pulling a noose tight around his neck. To prevail, he must seek answers in the wolf dream and find a way—at long last—to master the wolf within him or lose himself to it forever.

[jemron]

From the TOM synopsis...

Perrin Aybara is now hunted by specters from his past: Whitecloaks, a slayer of wolves, and the responsibilities of leadership. All the while, an unseen foe is slowly pulling a noose tight around his neck. To prevail, he must seek answers in the wolf dream and find a way—at long last—to master the wolf within him or lose himself to it forever.

 

So, who's messing with his dreams? What are they trying to say to him?

[The Fisher King]

I have a hard question for everybody (and, keep in mind that I *Like* Perrin):

 

OUTSIDE of The Shadow Rising, is there even ONE book (out of THIRTEEN) where you can say honestly that Perrin has progressed FORWARD in terms of character development?

 

 

 

Fish

[Crael123]

I have a hard question for everybody (and, keep in mind that I *Like* Perrin):

 

OUTSIDE of The Shadow Rising, is there even ONE book (out of THIRTEEN) where you can say honestly that Perrin has progressed FORWARD in terms of character development?

 

 

 

Fish

 

yeah COT when he threw the axe away. dumanis wells sort of. Eye of the world when he found out he was a wolf brother sort of

[ajfurst]

I have a hard question for everybody (and, keep in mind that I *Like* Perrin):

 

OUTSIDE of The Shadow Rising, is there even ONE book (out of THIRTEEN) where you can say honestly that Perrin has progressed FORWARD in terms of character development?

 

Fish

COT as noted. EOTW - no. Stuff happened to him / by him, but he didn't progress as a character. Ditto TGH, TDR - lots of angst about wolves, but no progression beyond 'save me Jeebus before I bite someone'. LOC, nope, still the reluctant leader worried about going furry. And ACOS through prologue of TOM, the axe throwing aside, all about Faile and no progression of accepting his role or abilities.

 

Of the original 5 Two Rivers folks he's certainly got the most catching up to do in character development.