The Seven Striped-Lass

[Stevros]

In conclusion I have to say that I think it's far more likely that the 30 days Brandon spoke of are a mistake, especially since I don't know the context of where and when it happened, than that there is a temporal shift in Randland which causes a twenty day discrepancy or that Brandon and Harriet both overlook something so obvious that people here immediately notice it.

 

Thing is other people such as Steve Cooper have worked out the time line from a known point (i.e. Rand cleansing the taint) if you take into account all the days passed for each character, this suggests there is over 25 days between the Verin leaving Mat and killing herself.

[Random Man]

 

From a TGS booktour report by Neth on Nov. 16

Q: Can you clear up the timeline issues? How do Mat, Perrin, Rand, and Egwene all match up in the timeline?

 

A: The Gathering Storm begins sometime in April. It ends around the end of June/beginning of July. However, Perrin advanced very little – only about 2 weeks. Mat advanced a bit more, but was still about a month behind Rand and Egwene (this gets an astrix as a MAFO), but Mat traveled to Caemlyn about 30 days before the end of the book – he emphasized 30 days and asked if I understood the significance of that – I said that I do. (Interpretation: Mat will wait in Caemlyn for the full 30 days without opening Verin’s letter – but I still think he’ll open it eventually).

I find it hard to believe Brandon would misspeak (even with adding the MAFO to it) if he emphasized the 30-day remark.

[Stevros]

I've just had a thought, knowing that Verin was BA whilst in her own special way trying to help the forces of light, she may know of the gholam and its target, and that may be mentioned in the letter?? If so does it say how to kill it/who its after (Elayne, who is hidden from it or someone else) if its not the same one after Mat before.

 

Only Birgitte and the Forsaken seem to know anything about the gholam, unless:

 

1) Some AS that was targeted by one survived during the period that gholam were used

2) They wrote down their experiences

3) Verin found the document

4) Verin could read the document

OR Verin spied on the Forsaken at some point in time...

 

And I doubt that BS made a mistake - I'd imagine Harriet/Maria went over that chapter especially carefully since it's the first real publicly available ToM material.

 

Seems to me, with Verin being Brown she may know more of gholam than most other AS, also she had planned this betrayal to throw as big a spanner in the DO's plans as possible, so I think it could be likely that Verin did a load of digging to find out what the various forsaken et al were up to.

[Terez]

The Gathering Storm Book Tour' date=' Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting[/url']

 

Hinderstap is a re-imagining of the old ‘Stone Soup’ folk tale.

 

Q: Can you clear up the timeline issues? How do Mat, Perrin, Rand, and Egwene all match up in the timeline?

A: The Gathering Storm begins sometime in April. It ends around the end of June/beginning of July. However, Perrin advanced very little – only about 2 weeks. Mat advanced a bit more, but was still about a month behind Rand and Egwene (this gets an asterisk as a MAFO), but Mat traveled to Caemlyn about 30 days before the end of the book – he emphasized 30 days and asked if I understood the significance of that – I said that I do. (Interpretation: Mat will open Verin’s letter very early in Towers of Midnight).

It was quoted in this thread at least once already.

[Random Man]

The Gathering Storm Book Tour' date=' Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting[/url']

 

Hinderstap is a re-imagining of the old ‘Stone Soup’ folk tale.

 

Q: Can you clear up the timeline issues? How do Mat, Perrin, Rand, and Egwene all match up in the timeline?

A: The Gathering Storm begins sometime in April. It ends around the end of June/beginning of July. However, Perrin advanced very little – only about 2 weeks. Mat advanced a bit more, but was still about a month behind Rand and Egwene (this gets an asterisk as a MAFO), but Mat traveled to Caemlyn about 30 days before the end of the book – he emphasized 30 days and asked if I understood the significance of that – I said that I do. (Interpretation: Mat will open Verin’s letter very early in Towers of Midnight).

It was quoted in this thread at least once already.

 

Did we ever get the MAFO clarification? I was looking for it, unfortunately the DM compilation doesn't seem to be working. I'd like to know if Maria confirmed this, because that makes it pretty solid that the timeline's not right in The Seven-Striped Lass. As I said earlier, I have a hard time believing Brandon would misspeak if he would go as far to emphasize the 30 days. Terez, you seem to have a pretty good line to Brandon's ear, maybe you could see if he'd comment on the timeline? I never get responses from him.

[subwoofer]

I've just had a thought, knowing that Verin was BA whilst in her own special way trying to help the forces of light, she may know of the gholam and its target, and that may be mentioned in the letter?? If so does it say how to kill it/who its after (Elayne, who is hidden from it or someone else) if its not the same one after Mat before.

 

Verin has been BA for a very long time. I think the specifications of her letter were meant so that she is not breaking any BA oaths in her head. For instance, if Mat reads the letter at day 10 then maybe that either a) gives him time to do something about it or option b, there is not enough time for him to save Verin so it is okay if he opens the letter, because in the end, Verin is dead and technically in the final hours of her life. The 30 day thing was probably the time frame Verin needed for her trip, make sure everything was okay in Tar Valon, and get her hands on the Oath Rod and make it back.

 

What the letter says probably has much to do with foiling the DO. Like to kill the gholam, you must be quick enough to tie its shoe laces together...and we all know that Mat has the fastest hands around. So once the laces are tied, then onto the banana peels...

 

Woof™.

[Terez]

Did we ever get the MAFO clarification? I was looking for it, unfortunately the DM compilation doesn't seem to be working. I'd like to know if Maria confirmed this, because that makes it pretty solid that the timeline's not right in The Seven-Striped Lass. As I said earlier, I have a hard time believing Brandon would misspeak if he would go as far to emphasize the 30 days. Terez, you seem to have a pretty good line to Brandon's ear, maybe you could see if he'd comment on the timeline? I never get responses from him.

Yeah, it was his emphasis of the significance of 30 days that made me ignore the MAFO. He only answers me about a third of the time, if that, but I will ask him after the prologue comes out if we're still confused (as seems likely).

[rew]

I talked personally to Brandon today (Sept 18) at a book signing at the Orem B&N.

 

I asked him 2 questions, both about “The Seven-Stripped Lass.” He “accused” me of working for DM or Theoryland, but said that I could report back to them on what he said. Sadly, I didn’t have a recording device with me, so his answers aren’t verbatim, but the words in quotations are the words that he used and the content is what I remember him saying. If there are mistakes they are probably mine, not his, as I am only human and cannot fully reproduce a spoken conversation word for word hours after the fact (despite the notes I jotted down).

 

1) Why did he choose to release Chapter 8?

 

He said it was strategic, because he knew that the Prologue would be up for sale, and chapters 1 and 2 would be up for free on Tor’s site. As well, chapters 3, 4 etc wouldn’t have worked “because they build upon each other. Chapter 1 builds on the Prologue, Chapter 2 on Chapter 1, etc.” And thus, chapter 8 was the earliest chapter that would work as a teaser without spoiling earlier things or getting in the way of the other early releases. He also confirmed that, yes, chapter 8 is the first Mat POV in the book.

 

2) I said something to the effect that many on the forums have challenged (I think the exact words I used were “giving him crap”) about the chronology, especially with regards to Mat. I guess it wasn’t a question as much as an interrogative lilt to my voice…

 

He responded by saying that he has a “detailed and precise” chronology off of which he works. He admitted however that he is not the real “chronology person” on Team Jordan, but those people assure him that “I am right on” with regards to the chronology. He then addressed a number of the concerns:

-first- Rumors: he said that rumors are just rumors. About trolloc attacks, specifically, he said that “trollocs have been attacking, or invading in various places for months” and that rumors abound in all sorts of forms about them.

 

With regard to the White Tower attack- I prompted this one a little, and he said that they are simply rumors which have coalesced from multiple rumors together, nothing related specifically to the real attack adding that “in the Wheel of Time rumors sometimes have a tendency to double-back on themselves” turning into truth eventually.

 

As for the horse riding in Caemlyn, I asked him specifically about Rand seeing Mat and Thom on horses in Caemlyn, but Mat in Chapter 8 not taking his horse into the city, and he responded by saying that Rand didn’t see Mat in this specific scene and assured me that all that would work out in the rest of the book.

 

He did admit that there has been one “hitch” found in TGS as per chronology that will be changed in upcoming editions. If I remember correctly he said Mat is roughly two weeks behind where he was meant to be and explained that Mat’s position in time at the end of TGS was supposed to be two weeks earlier than it was portrayed as being.

 

I have to admit that I failed while on the spot and should have asked a number of follow-up questions. If anyone is to see him in the next little while they should ask:

- Was this a full chapter? Or was the cliffhanger a mid-chapter cut?

- What exactly was the mistake or “hitch” in TGS? and how many days/hours/minutes/seconds Mat's chronology will have changed with regard to the other characters when it is fixed... :P

[Terez]

Awesome. Thanks for the report! Back to work on the database...

 

I bet the 'hitch' was Sulin.

[rew]

Yeah, no problem. Do you need it in any other form for the database? I tried to post it on theoryland also, but got a weird message about not being able to (I think I've lurked for too long without posting anything, :P), sent a message to admin about it though.

[Sid]

Thanks for posting, rew! It puts my mind at ease a little bit, although does 2 weeks = 14 days or 20 days? Maybe when the Paperback of TGS comes out we can compare his chapters and see what there is to see.

[Locksmith]

Am I the only one that is thinking that Elayne may be in Cairhien for a few days handling her claim to the Sun Throne when Mat came to town. As has been stated earlier, none of her staff knows of her connection to him so there would be no reason to notify her by gateway.

 

Also, I think Mat will deal with the Gholam before he leaves. He is already making plans for it. I favor him trapping it in a pit then blowing the crap out of it with grenades. After all, we know it is not injured by a knife but massive trauma might have more of an effect.

[Demiandre]

20 days. Thanks for the report Rew!

 

Except that I don't understand the "Mat is roughly two weeks behind and two weeks earlier than where he should be....".

 

I suppose the hitch in tGS has to do with the visions of the Ta'veren. Maybe they were off of a day or two. Something you would notice only after the release of ToM

[Terez]

Yeah, no problem. Do you need it in any other form for the database? I tried to post it on theoryland also, but got a weird message about not being able to (I think I've lurked for too long without posting anything, :P), sent a message to admin about it though.

Probably you are logged in on the home page but not on the forums. The logins are separate. And no, it's fine in that form, though it's a little longwinded for a typical Q&A topic. That's fine; people can scroll. ;)

[Charlz Guybon]

How can anyone expect Elayne to copy the Medallion when she's pregnant and didn't even copy the sleep weavers exactly right. With the help of Setalle Anan(healed) and demane that make adam, she might be able to figure out what she's doing but not alone. Probably only Mat(Taveren and memories) Rand and the Foresaken(AoL channelers could survive an encounter with the Gholam. I doubt Birgitte could.

She doesn't have to copy it exactly, just make a ter'angreal with the same weave breaking properties, one perhaps in the shape of a dagger or sword.

[Charlz Guybon]

I'm about 1/3 thru Winter's Heart in my re-read and have an idea that might explain why Mat hasn't heard from Elayne yet. Renee Harfor, the First Maid, and Master Norry are both zealous about guarding access to Elayne. Mat Cauthon is nothing to them and Thom, so far as they know, has an arrest warrant outstanding; so unless Elayne's specifically told them she's desperate for news of either Mat or Thom, Mat's message may not have been passed on.

 

Mat is sitting outside the capital with an army of nearly 30,000 men. That's equal to three Andoran great houses. There's no way that Elayne hasn't been notified that army is there. She'd want to meet the General in charge no matter who it was, whether Mat, Talmanes or someone she'd never heard of.

[b3arz3rg3r]

In conclusion I have to say that I think it's far more likely that the 30 days Brandon spoke of are a mistake, especially since I don't know the context of where and when it happened, than that there is a temporal shift in Randland which causes a twenty day discrepancy or that Brandon and Harriet both overlook something so obvious that people here immediately notice it.

 

Thing is other people such as Steve Cooper have worked out the time line from a known point (i.e. Rand cleansing the taint) if you take into account all the days passed for each character, this suggests there is over 25 days between the Verin leaving Mat and killing herself.

 

Pretty much everything in TGS has a questionmark. So I really don't care

 

 

He did admit that there has been one “hitch” found in TGS as per chronology that will be changed in upcoming editions. If I remember correctly he said Mat is roughly two weeks behind where he was meant to be and explained that Mat’s position in time at the end of TGS was supposed to be two weeks earlier than it was portrayed as being.

 

Which would mean that Verin would have never given Mat the option of waiting either ten days and then opening her letter or waiting 30 while not opening it, but instead waiting 30 days when opening the letter or even longer when not opening it? It would follow that Elayne has been ignoring Mat and Mat hasn't done anything about the dragons for 30 days already. The "false" ten days we have right now are far more logical and would make a lot more sense. She can't be that busy and he can't be that lazy. Ten days is a reasonable waiting period 30 is just wasteful.

[Terez]

Peter explained this a bit further on Theoryland, but he wouldn't tell us what the bit was that was going to be fixed in TGS, so I'm guessing it must be spoilerish, or he'd have just said.

[Stevros]

Could the timeline relate to when Rand feels through the bond Elayne's relief?

[Random Man]

I'm about 1/3 thru Winter's Heart in my re-read and have an idea that might explain why Mat hasn't heard from Elayne yet. Renee Harfor, the First Maid, and Master Norry are both zealous about guarding access to Elayne. Mat Cauthon is nothing to them and Thom, so far as they know, has an arrest warrant outstanding; so unless Elayne's specifically told them she's desperate for news of either Mat or Thom, Mat's message may not have been passed on.

 

Mat is sitting outside the capital with an army of nearly 30,000 men. That's equal to three Andoran great houses. There's no way that Elayne hasn't been notified that army is there. She'd want to meet the General in charge no matter who it was, whether Mat, Talmanes or someone she'd never heard of.

Agreed; she would have to know there's a sizable force of "Dragonsworn" camped a league away. A huge non-Andoran army wouldn't be something to keep from the Queen. It'd be like forgetting to tell her the city walls fell down overnight. I like the idea that she's in Cairihen. Or perhaps she just simply doesn't feel she has time to meet with Mat or whatever general might be in command. She may not know Mat's actually there, though.

 

 

Also, thanks, Rew, for getting that response from Brandon on the timeline issue. I suppose I'll buy his explanation for now (since I don't have a choice) although it seemed to be quite the Aes Sedai answer there...in case no one noticed, he never gave a solid answer of where Mat is in relation to the TGS timeline in "The Seven-Striped Lass," and only implied that the two rumors of the Tower unification and the Seanchan attack hadn't actually happened yet, while affirming that it wasn't an error. Makes me continue wondering whether something is wrong with Time. That would of course be spoilerish at this point.

[Khan]

I didn't mind Mat in tGS, I quite liked him actually, but for some reason there was something I didn't like about him here. It seems as if Brandon was trying too hard with him, and I didn't think Thom's knife throw was very, erm, what's the word? Suitable. It just didn't seem right. Complaints aside, WHAT A CLIFFHANGER! I'm all worried about who it is; Olver keeps on coming back to my mind, as does Lopin. I'd of course be more worried about Olver, but I wouldn't really wish Lopin's body sucked dry of blood either...

[Shard]

I'm about 1/3 thru Winter's Heart in my re-read and have an idea that might explain why Mat hasn't heard from Elayne yet. Renee Harfor, the First Maid, and Master Norry are both zealous about guarding access to Elayne. Mat Cauthon is nothing to them and Thom, so far as they know, has an arrest warrant outstanding; so unless Elayne's specifically told them she's desperate for news of either Mat or Thom, Mat's message may not have been passed on.

 

Mat is sitting outside the capital with an army of nearly 30,000 men. That's equal to three Andoran great houses. There's no way that Elayne hasn't been notified that army is there. She'd want to meet the General in charge no matter who it was, whether Mat, Talmanes or someone she'd never heard of.

 

Could it be possible that Elyane has been told to ignore Mat? Maybe by a Verin letter even?

[Crael123]

mat was funny

[csarmi]

A few points.

 

1) Why don't Mat's Aes Sedai have travelling? I can understand Verin not teaching them, but surely they must know there are people in Caemlyn who do?

2) Mat should get Traveling ASAP, whatever his hate and mistrust for Aes Sedai, as a general he has to realise its worth... Maybe, just maybe he gets to keep Teslyn with Traveling? He does trust her, apparently. Is she strong enough tho, by herself? I don't know. If anyone, he should be smart enough to setup a good and reliable communications/spy network based on Traveling.

3) Did someone notice that if the Aes Sedai party sets out for Tar Valon right now (about 20-25 days before the white tower reunification), Egwene is to meet Seta and Bethamin very soon? That might be an interesting 'reunion'.

4) Mat might realise something is wrong with Elayne not receiving him. Elayne can't be that stupid as to not receving him unless she has a very good reason to. As far as I can recall, they have measured each other up and came to trust each other, didn't they?

[Mr.Big]

Elayne still manages to annoy me without even having any direct action in this chapter. Even if there are circumstances that are keeping her from meeting with Mat, I think that they have been through enough together and would have enough friendship between them that she could at least send him a message explaining why she can't see him. It makes it seem like all those times that Mat thought she was a snobbish, up-stuck noble that looked down on commoners, that he was correct.