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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

A use for the Adam.


Shadow Rider
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I was thinking , Egwene executed all those BA. What a waste, they could use the adam on the BA, and use them as weapons! an they could use the Kin for Suldam ...... but I think they would be not called Suldam & Damane, but something else.

I think it might be possible, but who wants to have a BA on a leash.

 

Rather bind them as criminals. Wait, no you can't cause that requires the Sacred Rod of Aes Sedai'ness...

In the AoL the Oath Rod was used to bind criminal channelers. As soon as the AS learn that, I think they will remove the oaths. Perhaps they won't be AS any more, but: Better a Kins' woman as marked as a criminal. Besides; they would live longer.

 

I'm pretty sure you cannot circumvent the oath even with an adam.  You are still actively using the power as the weapon, even if it's through a proxy.

When a sister becomes BA, the Three Oaths are replaced by oaths to the DO. Kins' woman, accepted and novices aren't sworn to the Oath Rod. So I don't see your problem.

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I was thinking , Egwene executed all those BA. What a waste, they could use the adam on the BA, and use them as weapons! an they could use the Kin for Suldam ...... but I think they would be not called Suldam & Damane, but something else.

I think it might be possible, but who wants to have a BA on a leash.

 

Rather bind them as criminals. Wait, no you can't cause that requires the Sacred Rod of Aes Sedai'ness...

In the AoL the Oath Rod was used to bind criminal channelers. As soon as the AS learn that, I think they will remove the oaths. Perhaps they won't be AS any more, but: Better a Kins' woman as marked as a criminal. Besides; they would live longer.

 

I'm pretty sure you cannot circumvent the oath even with an adam.  You are still actively using the power as the weapon, even if it's through a proxy.

When a sister becomes BA, the Three Oaths are replaced by oaths to the DO. Kins' woman, accepted and novices aren't sworn to the Oath Rod. So I don't see your problem.

 

Accepted, novices, kins' woman? If those are the ones you had in mind, I can completely see why you don't have a problem with this idea. We've seen already what pathetic chaos kins woman cause when they were given a bit of backbone, we don't need any more of that.

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The idea's of the Kin had to change in a short time and they managed to do that very well. In the beginning that caused some chaos, but they developed in a positive way. Even the Wise Ones see them as equals, which can't be said of the AS.

On the other hand the AS attitude didn't change at all. With some exceptions they are as boring and arrogant as they were at the start of the series. Besides:

Two AS can create more chaos than 2 armies of 50K

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Rather bind them as criminals. Wait, no you can't cause that requires the Sacred Rod of Aes Sedai'ness...

 

BA have had the Oaths removed and replaced with the DO code, they can be removed again. Better to stick a collar on them, and use them for the dogs they are.

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Hi all...

And the a'dam doesnt HAVE to be an instrument of pain, compelling obedience through torture. Tuon said the a'dam can transmit pleasure as well as pain, and as Semirrhage knows, pleasure can be VERY addictive. (She saw someone capitulate just to that alone)

 

In real world experiments, animals whove had the pleasure center of their brains directly stimulated...and who can control it...will do that exclusively, foregoing food and water til they die of hunger/thirst. Robert Jordan had to know that in order for his created character to know it.

 

Black Ajah could have been most useful. Too bad they are lost.

Sincerely,

Wheel of Thyme

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I don't know what books you've been reading, but of the 3 female channeling faction (Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, Kins), Aes Sedai has been the most impressive by far.

 

Not only do they have to deal with retarded rulers/politicians, they have to deal with constant in-fighting and had to keep wiping up the black ajah machinations. And yet they are still there.

 

We know already that only a remnant of the remnant will remain of the Wise Ones, so their respect for the Kins is worth very very little.

 

He who thinks he knows honor, knows nothing at all. Too bad the Aiel won't realize this until it's too late.

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I don't know what books you've been reading, but of the 3 female channeling faction (Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, Kins), Aes Sedai has been the most impressive by far.

 

Not only do they have to deal with retarded rulers/politicians, they have to deal with constant in-fighting and had to keep wiping up the black ajah machinations. And yet they are still there.

 

We know already that only a remnant of the remnant will remain of the Wise Ones, so their respect for the Kins is worth very very little.

 

He who thinks he knows honor, knows nothing at all. Too bad the Aiel won't realize this until it's too late.

AS are the least impressive, they have huge amounts of plans that often end up as useless. They do have to deal with infighting (which makes organizations ineffectual) the only ones who can be called effective are those at the top who have less power contention, and those who are advisors to thrones who once again do not have to deal with infighting. They refused to reckognise (sorry for spelling) the BA and never came up with an effective plan to dismantle and destroy it (could have simply been done with an oath like 'I swear upon my life that I have not and will never swear myself to the shaitan (sp)). They are not trusted or respected in many places, are considered considerable 'liars' (put in quotes because they have to bend the truth around corners to lie in any way).

 

Kin and the Aiel are both considerably better than AS, they are both well respected to their people, add much to their societies and deeply respect each other in many ways.

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I don't know what books you've been reading, but of the 3 female channeling faction (Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, Kins), Aes Sedai has been the most impressive by far.

 

Not only do they have to deal with retarded rulers/politicians, they have to deal with constant in-fighting and had to keep wiping up the black ajah machinations. And yet they are still there.

 

We know already that only a remnant of the remnant will remain of the Wise Ones, so their respect for the Kins is worth very very little.

 

He who thinks he knows honor, knows nothing at all. Too bad the Aiel won't realize this until it's too late.

AS are the least impressive, they have huge amounts of plans that often end up as useless. They do have to deal with infighting (which makes organizations ineffectual) the only ones who can be called effective are those at the top who have less power contention, and those who are advisors to thrones who once again do not have to deal with infighting. They refused to reckognise (sorry for spelling) the BA and never came up with an effective plan to dismantle and destroy it (could have simply been done with an oath like 'I swear upon my life that I have not and will never swear myself to the shaitan (sp)). They are not trusted or respected in many places, are considered considerable 'liars' (put in quotes because they have to bend the truth around corners to lie in any way).

 

Kin and the Aiel are both considerably better than AS, they are both well respected to their people, add much to their societies and deeply respect each other in many ways.

 

Believe what you want to, yet at the end of the day, it is only the Aes Sedai that will prevail. If they are not impressive, the aiel and kin is far less.  The Kin was not even aware that the White Tower knew about them. The fact that you say they are more effective than the Aes Sedai shows just how illogical and blinded you are.

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the WT knew about the kin but not the scope and size of them, the fact taht they number much larger than the AS, live a lot longer, are a part of society in all aspects, help others just to help them, leadership is based off of age which can connotate wisdom (which actually did in what we saw of the Kin) and not shear power, has been able to deceive the AS about themselves unknowingly by moving its members around to avoid notice. Yeah I would say they arent impressive after all if RJ had stated the amount of wealth that the kin had accumulated they would have been very very rich, due to members mastering many different professions.

 

And the Aiel wise ones arent successful at all since they utilize their powers to help their people (in negotiations between clans and such, dreamwalking) are well respected and earn that respect. have literally achieved all that the WT has but without a central leadership in terms of respect, power, special rights. Oh and lets not forget that they have a better leadership than the WT because they base it off of honour, wisdom, and personnal strength, not brute power.

 

And when I compare their power structures I mean if a bunch of AS or WO's or Kin meet in one area.

 

now lets look at what the WT has achieved, are hated in multiple locations, very distrusted everywhere else, are only respected in the borderlands, barely ever leave the tower (as a whole), run huge spy rings, run a single city, and in fact do very little in the real world other than screw around with politics in different areas often with very little success (I base this off of when Suian tells Bryne why she embarassed him in front of Andors court), and according to some AS durign the Elayne seizing the crown arc that AS often support both sides of a conflict and hide involvement in the other side to increase their power. None of this seems to indicate their very successful, after all if your hated/very resented almost everywhere I cant label you as hugely successful

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now lets look at what the WT has achieved, are hated in multiple locations, very distrusted everywhere else, are only respected in the borderlands, barely ever leave the tower (as a whole), run huge spy rings, run a single city, and in fact do very little in the real world other than screw around with politics in different areas often with very little success (I base this off of when Suian tells Bryne why she embarassed him in front of Andors court), and according to some AS durign the Elayne seizing the crown arc that AS often support both sides of a conflict and hide involvement in the other side to increase their power. None of this seems to indicate their very successful, after all if your hated/very resented almost everywhere I cant label you as hugely successful

 

They have been very successful, they have stopped wars before they started, helped end wars, protected people against the shadow, kept knowledge found nowhere else in the world, Healed people. Unfortunately you are seeing the Aes Sedai from the POV of some of the Undesirables, women who want power, who see the WT as the whole world. For every one of these, there are at least two who actually desire to use the power to help mankind, Healing, mediating between disputes, collecting knowledge for the future. even finding men who can channel before they kill everyone around them.

 

When you look at a place like the Seanchan empire, where an organisation does not exist outside and beyond the ruling factions, rebellions are quite common, involving numbers of soldiers on each side that would have staggered Randlanders before the Aiel came back over

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now lets look at what the WT has achieved, are hated in multiple locations, very distrusted everywhere else, are only respected in the borderlands, barely ever leave the tower (as a whole), run huge spy rings, run a single city, and in fact do very little in the real world other than screw around with politics in different areas often with very little success (I base this off of when Suian tells Bryne why she embarassed him in front of Andors court), and according to some AS durign the Elayne seizing the crown arc that AS often support both sides of a conflict and hide involvement in the other side to increase their power. None of this seems to indicate their very successful, after all if your hated/very resented almost everywhere I cant label you as hugely successful

 

They have been very successful, they have stopped wars before they started, helped end wars, protected people against the shadow, kept knowledge found nowhere else in the world, Healed people. Unfortunately you are seeing the Aes Sedai from the POV of some of the Undesirables, women who want power, who see the WT as the whole world. For every one of these, there are at least two who actually desire to use the power to help mankind, Healing, mediating between disputes, collecting knowledge for the future. even finding men who can channel before they kill everyone around them.

 

When you look at a place like the Seanchan empire, where an organisation does not exist outside and beyond the ruling factions, rebellions are quite common, involving numbers of soldiers on each side that would have staggered Randlanders before the Aiel came back over

where have we learned that there are frequent rebellions in Seanchan (continent). The have not done much to protect the world from the shadow (I will grant that occassionally a few will go to the borderlands to fight the shadow), gathering knowledge is important but it is useless if they do nothing with it! the mediating disputes is basically useless as an argument because the gray with rand that is supposed to be one of the greatest negotiators (I believe this is so cant recall exactly_ says that quite a few of the agreements she created fell apart shortly after being made (personally I believe this is likely due to the lack of respect AS have, and that the parties involved where just paying lip service due to the legends passed down from before), Healing they rarely do unless you find one of the 40 who are out in the world or drag the sick person across the world to the tower and if you have to do that the person is very likely to die along the way. And like you say there are very very few who use the power of the WT to help the world. most of what they do is sit in the tower and do beauracratic infighting

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Surely the best use of an A'dam would be to lock up rebel channelers. just have a dungeon with A'dam hung on pegs and clip the captured channelers into the collars. they can't move the bracelet. Or a great battlefield lock up, channelers could be held in tents. OR to lead out those Aes sedai accused of crimes. Just like normal shackles. They can capture black ajah and use novices and kin who are too wweak in the final battle.

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A few posts on the first page brought up the oaths regarding the a'dam and making the BA useless if bound. This is wrong, the Black Ajah has no oath against killing with the power and they take advantage of this in a number of books. It could be argued that the one holding the leash could not make them do something, but I'd have to say that's wrong too since the damane is still the one weaving the flows. The a'dam's collar probably diverts the power ability (the area where Nynaeve builds a bridge to Heal severing) to whoever wears the bracelet, and then back to the damane. So it just requires the bracelet to be worn in order for the damane's ability to be whole. It would explain why the damane can't channel without the bracelet worn. So the sul'dam merely acts as a link and while she might have control over what the damane does, it's still the damane doing it.

 

The Aes Sedai would not use an a'dam on the Black Ajah for four reasons:

1. It's wrong. Slavery is non-existent in main-Randland.

2. The a'dam would be something they would steer clear of. The Aes Sedai would not want to even think about what it represents, much like their reactions upon learning about forkroot.

3. The punishment for being a darkfriend is death, whether you can channel or not. And even if it wasn't..

4. They don't have enough a'dams.

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BA have had the Oaths removed and replaced with the DO code, they can be removed again. Better to stick a collar on them, and use them for the dogs they are.

 

They can't do that without a binder. I'm also sure binding can be made permanent with well-selected oaths.

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