We know Trollocs cannot travel, but can they skim?

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

I ask this question because of the following segment from Luckers' "Big unnoticed thing thread:

 

Trollocs and Myrdraal and... helicopters?

 

How does Semirhage react fast enough to get new Trollocs into the Stone to fight Sammael’s in tSR? I don’t see the Ways working—the Dark One would have to learn of Sammael’s intentions, sends for Semirhage (no small difficulty with her on a ship with Tuon and bunch of damane), she has to gather her own Trollocs, and even then  it’d be a one to two day trip through the Ways (if not more—she’d likely have to send them through in two or three groups to evade Machin Shin).

 

So did Sammael for some odd reason wait 3 or 4 days for Semirhage to be able to blunt his effort in the nick of time, after making his intentions somehow known to the Dark One? This is all quite weird.

 

On the same note, how does Asmo get Trollocs to Imre Stand and Cold Rocks unnoticed? The closest Waygate is in the Spine of the World, one would think the Aiel would notice a Shadowspawn army moving through the Waste (Rhuarc expresses shock that a couple of wagons could do it, an army of 10,000 should have drawn notice in moments). Yet not only do they do this, no one comments on it.

 

The Ongoing Principal: Not really.

The Discussion Factor: Never, that I recall.

Revelation Requirements: No. We didn’t know about Trollocs and gateways at that time, so I don’t see any reason why we should have questioned this.

Presence in the Later Books: Possibly the Trollocs that attacked Tylee in tGS? It’s been noted that the nearest Waygates are outside the Seanchan perimeter for Ebou Dar, so how did they get inside unnoticed?

Potential Impact: Huge. A previously unknown way of moving Shadowspawn?

Other Thoughts/Problems:

 

So while we know that trollocs cannot travel, do we have any reason to believe that an army of trollocs cannot be skimmed from one location to another?  While traveling and skimming are similar they are not exactly the same thing.   Just thought this might clear up some of the issues of trolloc armies appearing unexpectedly.  Any thought?

 

[Tiinker]

What? No trollocs are just dumb brutes! Maybe it has something to do with a Fades shadow travelling that's what i'd put my bet on.. but yea Trollocs = stupid uesless and hungry..

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

What? No trollocs are just dumb brutes! Maybe it has something to do with a Fades shadow travelling that's what i'd put my bet on.. but yea Trollocs = stupid uesless and hungry..

 

LOL, ok let me clarify.  I know that Trollocs cannot use the one power to skim on their own, but I'm wondering if one of the forsaken could open a skimming gate, load a bunch of the "dumb brutes" onto the floating platform and transport them to another location.  The fades' shadow traveling is a good thought on the issue though.

[alannalynn]

I don't think so, hence why they've been using the Ways as a means of transportation. But, if you wanna test this out, be my guest. A couple less Trollocs would be awesome before TG.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

I don't think so, hence why they've been using the Ways as a means of transportation. But, if you wanna test this out, be my guest. A couple less Trollocs would be awesome before TG.

 

This is a very good point.  Interestingly the fact that the Ways seem to be the preferred method of transporting trollocs provides a similar problem for the Shadow Traveling theory or with any theory concerning an alternate and yet unknown to the light method of transporting trollocs.  However, from what Luckers has presented it seems that there said alternate trolloc transport method must exist.  So now the question is why are the Ways so seemingly preferred to this alternate method?

 

A few thoughts:

 

Perhaps trollocs can survive skimming but in most cases there is no Forsaken available or willing to perform the service.  Trollocs are more often overseen by Fades than directly by Forsaken thus left on his own a Fade would not be able to utilize skimming as a method of transport.  Moreover, even is said Fade could contact a Forsaken to request skimming he would likely be denied as the Forsaken are an arrogant bunch and would probably not want to be bothered with opening a skimming gate, waiting for an army of trollocs to be loaded onto the platform and seeing them safely to their destination. Especially not when the Ways have served as an efficient enough form of trolloc transport in the past.  Granted the Ways are not a trollocs favorite method of travel, but I hardly think a Forsaken would be concerned with the feelings of a trolloc.  In the two cases sited by Luckers, however, the trollocs in question were serving the special interests of a Forsaken, Semiraghe and Asmodean respectively, so in these cases there would be a Forsaken willing to perform the service.  This also calls into question the Shadow Traveling hypothesis.  Shadow traveling is a task that Fades can perform on their own and therefore we must ask if the Fade could take armies of trollocs with them through the shadows then why ideed would they ever bother with the Ways?

[Sid]

Rand's LTT memories tell him that "Shadowspawn cannot survive passing through a gateway".  Since Traveling and Skimming both require passing through a gateway, they cannot skim either.

[Solmyr]

I've never seen it discussed so I'll just toss it in the pile ...

 

Entering the T'A'R in the flesh. We know from Egwene's experience that this is one of the few ways to cover long distances without using traveling. Trollocs are made from different beasts and they act like such, thus should be capable of entering the dream, especially if guided/forced by someone skilled. The shadow has resources beyond what we know, but I think this implies people/creatures with abilities we do not suspect, not a totally new way for transportation.

[Tiinker]

Maybe they can create a giant tunnel underground like a couple of diglets  :D

[PatsNats28]

Portal Stones :D

[Duskfire]

Portal Stones :D

 

I think Portal Stones is a strong possibility. In fact, its likely there are entire worlds that are populated by Trollocs; I dont think its beyond the realms of possibility that Forsaken use those worlds to gain access to further Trollocs.

[yoniy0]

Remember the trouble Rand had with Skimming? When he tried to get his strike force to Caemlyn? I don't think a Forsaken would like to make the number of trips necessary to amass a large enough army.

[Jong]

I original posted at least part of that message.

 

In book 1 we see a few hundred trollocs sent into the two rivers probably via the ways. In book 4 the shadow is able to move a few thousand trollocs into the two rivers via the ways over the course of few weeks to a couple of months. When the waygate is closed, temporarily thousands of trollocs die huge, losses and delays in sending more.

 

From book 4 onward we see thousands of trollocs mysteriously appear without warning even in locations that are very well guarded, behind defensive perimeters and far away from way gates, etc... first inside the stone in tear, then in Caemlyn at the end of book 5, later 100,000 In the middle of nowhere in tear, again a few miles from eboudar a very fortified area, etc...) most of these situations they show up on what must be short notice.

 

Rand an Loial have also been working to seal the way-gates permanently, as many as they can.

 

Maybe the ways have gotten cleaner since Rand cleansed the source. Or maybe the wind is busy on a mission from Fain. Or, the forsaken have come up with something new. Eitherway, they seem to have the ability to drop 100,000 trollocs into any country in the southlands on short notice with little warning or trouble.

[Hand of the Creator]

I agree, Portal Stones seem the most likely way. Unless of course it is just something we haven't seen yet.

[Durinax]

I original posted at least part of that message.

 

In book 1 we see a few hundred trollocs sent into the two rivers probably via the ways. In book 4 the shadow is able to move a few thousand trollocs into the two rivers via the ways over the course of few weeks to a couple of months. When the waygate is closed, temporarily thousands of trollocs die huge, losses and delays in sending more.

 

From book 4 onward we see thousands of trollocs mysteriously appear without warning even in locations that are very well guarded, behind defensive perimeters and far away from way gates, etc... first inside the stone in tear, then in Caemlyn at the end of book 5, later 100,000 In the middle of nowhere in tear, again a few miles from eboudar a very fortified area, etc...) most of these situations they show up on what must be short notice.

 

Rand an Loial have also been working to seal the way-gates permanently, as many as they can.

 

Maybe the ways have gotten cleaner since Rand cleansed the source. Or maybe the wind is busy on a mission from Fain. Or, the forsaken have come up with something new. Eitherway, they seem to have the ability to drop 100,000 trollocs into any country in the southlands on short notice with little warning or trouble.

the stone they came off of grain barges, Caemlyn could have been the ways with Sammy moving them in the middle of the night across the city, in the middle of tear they could have come from a waygate near tear and moving them cross country, ebou dar gateway.

 

I dont think that rands task force got to ebou dar, and the second instance in tear is likely the only one which is unexplainable since rand made sure that they where protected

[talligan]

How can Trollocs read the guidestones to navigate the ways? Can trollocs read Ogier script?

[Durinax]

How can Trollocs read the guidestones to navigate the ways? Can trollocs read Ogier script?

that is a puzzler, maybe ishy learned ogier or and ogier DF went about and translated it into the trolloc runes we have seen on the guidestones

[Spirax]

How can Trollocs read the guidestones to navigate the ways? Can trollocs read Ogier script?

that is a puzzler, maybe ishy learned ogier or and ogier DF went about and translated it into the trolloc runes we have seen on the guidestones

 

If Liandrin had a parchment showing the way through the ways... im sure Ishy can

[Caedn of the Taardad]

There was a topic a while back on deathgates and trollocs, and here is a rather interesting theory that came up in it.

 

This is just a theory of mine, but I think it has to do with the fact that the True Power was used during the creation of Trollocs.

 

True Power & One Power just. don't. mix. Ever. (see how the Taint and the True Source interact; they don't)

So when a Trolloc (and a Fade for that matter) are forced through a Gateway, part of what holds their essence together is snapped.

 

I don't think constructs that were created by using solely One Power are affected in any way.

 

http://www.wotmania.com/wotmessageboard2showmessage.asp?MessageID=103930

 

 

 

So perhaps making a gateway with the TP would let trollocs through (liek the one we see Morridin make), whick is why it isn't done very often. 

[yoniy0]

So perhaps making a gateway with the TP would let trollocs through (liek the one we see Morridin make), whick is why it isn't done very often. 

That can't be it, in my opinion, since Rand is aware of the TP, and still he considers Shadowspawn armies less mobile than his own.

[Durinax]

So perhaps making a gateway with the TP would let trollocs through (liek the one we see Morridin make), whick is why it isn't done very often. 

That can't be it, in my opinion, since Rand is aware of the TP, and still he considers Shadowspawn armies less mobile than his own.

but he does not know what the TP can do so he is assuming it is akin to the OP in what it can and cant do in respects to the shadowspawn

[Duskfire]

Yeah it wouldn't be the first time characters assumed they knew about things and it turned out they were completely wrong. However, Portal Stones to me still makes the most sense. Assuming  of course it would still work and the same thing wouldn't happen as a Gateway, which is a pretty big assumption to make I suppose.