Dyelin : Darkfriend ?

[Val Mickey]

Destroy this theory.

 

For -

 

Scene 1 : An attempt on Elayne's life. Elayne claims to have been poisoned. Dyelin pulls a dagger out before any assassin appears.

 

Scene 2 : Dyelin's declaration. She 'allies' with Elayne from the start, but declares only after the BA plot fails.

 

Against -

 

She almost died in Scene 1. She wanted Luan and co. closer before she published her support. (Weak, I know.)

 

Usefulness : She might spring the DFs from Elayne's palace. She could leak Andor's battle strategy (I highly doubt/dislike this, she comes across as a patriot.) She might be the one to stab Birgitte, or Rand. Hopefully she'll finish Gawyn.

[aunt_pol]

Dyelin's a sticky one to call. The evidence either way is, as you've pointed out, flimsy.

[Durinax]

why would dylen stab one of the DF's who poisoned her in the back if she was one of them? Besides Df's are greedy and selfish so Dylin likely would have thrown her name in to be queen if she was one.

[Duskfire]

why would dylen stab one of the DF's who poisoned her in the back if she was one of them? Besides Df's are greedy and selfish so Dylin likely would have thrown her name in to be queen if she was one.

 

Unless she was commanded to support Elayne by a Forsaken. In fact, darkfriends are rarely ever rulers themselves. They are advisors and whatnot, which is what Dyelin is now.

 

I dont think she is a darkfriend mostly because the Shadow went to some trouble to set Davod Hanlon up to be close to her. However, its possible.

 

 

[yoniy0]

Unlike any Darkfriends who might be hiding near Rand, Dyelin was actually crucial to Elayne's success. For her to be a Darkfriend, we have to consider possible reasons that the Shadow might want Elayne as Queen. Wouldn't Arymilla make for a better figurehead?

Also, couldn't Rahvin have used Darkfriends among the High Seats of major houses?

[algspkr]

Destroy this theory.

 

For -

 

Scene 1 : An attempt on Elayne's life. Elayne claims to have been poisoned. Dyelin pulls a dagger out before any assassin appears.

 

I need to reread this.

 

Scene 2 : Dyelin's declaration. She 'allies' with Elayne from the start, but declares only after the BA plot fails.

 

Wait, what BA plot?  If you are referring to the assassination attempt it went according to plan and was not ordered or executed by the BA.  Also, Dyelin had declared for Elayne prior to it, and showed support of Elayne when Rand was still running Camelyn.

 

Against -

 

She almost died in Scene 1. She wanted Luan and co. closer before she published her support. (Weak, I know.)

 

Usefulness : She might spring the DFs from Elayne's palace. She could leak Andor's battle strategy (I highly doubt/dislike this, she comes across as a patriot.) She might be the one to stab Birgitte, or Rand. Hopefully she'll finish Gawyn.

 

It seems vaguely possible that she is a darfriend, but I don't see the Shadow risking an almost certain queen for a possible advisor.

[Val Mickey]

Dyelin prints her publication only after Arymilla's defeat. She had declared her support verbatim, which is not good enough, as Elayne notes, and Elayne changes her mind only after Dyelin's near-death. Some of the Shadow's plots make no sense till after the fact. Dyelin wants no rumour of foul play associated with her ascension. I doubt she will betray Andor, even if she was a DF, which is not to say she would betray Elayne.

[Luckers]

There is a reason, I think, that the title of the chapter in which Elayne gains the throne is called The Importance of Dyelin. Dyelin is no darkfriend, just a crafty politician strugling between her loyalty and her need to ensure the best outcome for Andor.

[Mr Hindley]

At the risk of going slightly off-topic - the Daved Hanlon / Shiaine plot has always annoyed me as one of the examples of the Shadow being useless above and beyond the call of duty. They go to great effort to successfully get Hanlon in a position close to Elayne. But for what? He never does anything damaging to the Light cause that I can remember, and how can Elayne be anything other than a threat to the cause of the Shadow? Let's see - one of the most powerful channelers around, working to unify the most powerful countries, and pregnant by, hmm, someone, as Hanlon more than anyone knows he isn't the baby-daddy. Has no-one realised by now that Elayne is Rand's squeeze?

 

So why not just bump Elayne off as soon as you have the chance? What were Hanlon, Shiaine, and all their associated never-followed-through subplots trying to achieve..?

 

Sorry, you can all go back on topic now..!

[yoniy0]

I don't think anyone knows about Rand and Elayne (except, of course, for the obvious people: Aviendha and the WO, Min, Birgitte, Egwene). If Dyelin doesn't know, how could someone else make the connection?

[algspkr]

At the risk of going slightly off-topic - the Daved Hanlon / Shiaine plot has always annoyed me as one of the examples of the Shadow being useless above and beyond the call of duty. They go to great effort to successfully get Hanlon in a position close to Elayne. But for what? He never does anything damaging to the Light cause that I can remember, and how can Elayne be anything other than a threat to the cause of the Shadow? Let's see - one of the most powerful channelers around, working to unify the most powerful countries, and pregnant by, hmm, someone, as Hanlon more than anyone knows he isn't the baby-daddy. Has no-one realised by now that Elayne is Rand's squeeze?

 

So why not just bump Elayne off as soon as you have the chance? What were Hanlon, Shiaine, and all their associated never-followed-through subplots trying to achieve..?

 

Sorry, you can all go back on topic now..!

 

I think he was put in place as a spy, and in case Elayne's victory seemed likely.  The Shadow wanted a long bloody protracted civil war in Andor, and if he not been captured I believe that he would have been ordered to free Elayne's opponents and kill enough high seats including Dyelin and Elayne to reignite the war.

[Durinax]

At the risk of going slightly off-topic - the Daved Hanlon / Shiaine plot has always annoyed me as one of the examples of the Shadow being useless above and beyond the call of duty. They go to great effort to successfully get Hanlon in a position close to Elayne. But for what? He never does anything damaging to the Light cause that I can remember, and how can Elayne be anything other than a threat to the cause of the Shadow? Let's see - one of the most powerful channelers around, working to unify the most powerful countries, and pregnant by, hmm, someone, as Hanlon more than anyone knows he isn't the baby-daddy. Has no-one realised by now that Elayne is Rand's squeeze?

 

So why not just bump Elayne off as soon as you have the chance? What were Hanlon, Shiaine, and all their associated never-followed-through subplots trying to achieve..?

 

Sorry, you can all go back on topic now..!

 

I think he was put in place as a spy, and in case Elayne's victory seemed likely.  The Shadow wanted a long bloody protracted civil war in Andor, and if he not been captured I believe that he would have been ordered to free Elayne's opponents and kill enough high seats including Dyelin and Elayne to reignite the war.

he also worked to move the guards into useless positions in order to allow the burning of graineries except that andor keepss good records of who ordered what

[DemandredFO]

Besides, as per Verin's the war isn't being fought like Al'thor thinks it is, we may not know til AMoL why the shadow does everything it does.

[Duskfire]

As I pointed out in the other thread, darkfriends are mostly there to spy and do covert stuff. Davod Hanlon's job was to watch Elayne and try and prolong the civil war. There's not much he could do regarding Elayne or Birgitte or whatnot; he is only a standard soldier after all (although reasonably skilled, it seems.)

[mellojoe]

Unless she was commanded to support Elayne by a Forsaken. In fact, darkfriends are rarely ever rulers themselves. They are advisors and whatnot, which is what Dyelin is now.

This.

 

One of the major themes of the series is that the Shadow loves to be the voice in the ear and not the face on the throne.

 

For this very reason, anyone who rises to a close advisory position of a major organization must be looked at as possibly being a DF.

 

for example:

White Tower - Keeper = Alviarin = darkfriend

Rebel Tower - Keeper = Sheriam = under the thumb of a darkfriend, at least

Black Tower - M'Heal = Taim = darkfriend of some kind

Whitecloaks - Eamon Valda = not a DF I don't think, but betrayed the previous LCC

Padan Fain is part Mordeth who craves being the voice in the King's ear, or 2nd in command.

Seanchan - commander of the Hailene - Suroth = darkfriend

[Durinax]

mellojoe, Suroth commanded the Hailene thus was 1st in command

I suppose barthanes is another in this trend.

but what of the Galina she was 1st of the reds

[Dakota]

mellojoe, Suroth commanded the Hailene thus was 1st in command

I suppose barthanes is another in this trend.

but what of the Galina she was 1st of the reds

 

Didn't Suroth originally start out as a subordinate of Turak though, and only become the one in charge after Rand killed him?

As for Galina, she may have been First of the reds, but there were plenty who still were higher up the food chain than she was.  The Amyrlin, the Keeper, possibly the Mistress of Novices.  Hell, even the Sitters of her Ajah had more actual power and authority and influence than she did, it could be said that none of the Ajah heads had any more than an advisory role in the functioning of the Tower as a whole.  They may have told the Sitters what to do, but the Sitters still had the choice whether to actually do it or not when it came down to the Hall.

[TheAngryDruid]

One of the major themes of the series is that the Shadow loves to be the voice in the ear and not the face on the throne.

 

For this very reason, anyone who rises to a close advisory position of a major organization must be looked at as possibly being a DF.

 

for example:

White Tower - Keeper = Alviarin = darkfriend

Rebel Tower - Keeper = Sheriam = under the thumb of a darkfriend, at least

Black Tower - M'Heal = Taim = darkfriend of some kind

Whitecloaks - Eamon Valda = not a DF I don't think, but betrayed the previous LCC

Padan Fain is part Mordeth who craves being the voice in the King's ear, or 2nd in command.

Seanchan - commander of the Hailene - Suroth = darkfriend

 

No to mention Semi position with Tuon.

 

I'd though about opening a thread with all the "second level" players, to see who we think is a DF. Plenty to chose from.

 

Rand's 2nd Fiddles that we know a little:

 

1. Bashere

2. Berelain: Linda thinks maybe so.

3. Dobraine

4. Darlin

5. Weiramon: Linda makes some darn good points at the 13th.

 

 

Aiel possibilities:

1. Rhuarc

2. Any other Chief

3. Sorilea: much discussed.

4. Other WO's

 

A lot of these players have been given short shrift from Rand, despite dong excellent jobs for him. I think more than one will be revealed to have been playing for the other side.

 

I think it would be an interesting ideological turn if Galad turned out to be a DF. The guy who abstractly believes in right no matter the cost. But in no way do I think he's actually a DF.

 

[Juggler]

I doubt Dyelin is a darkfriend otherwise why was she not involved when morgase was with Ravhin? Surely there would have been something going on there I think - I doubt Rahvin would have planned to lose

[aunt_pol]

Berelain, I think, is a def possible. She's certainly mercenary enough to do whatever's necessary to save Mayene from being gobbled up by Tear, and she's certainly confident enough to think she could survive/outwit any consequences. And, of course, looking at it that way, her ridiculously persistent pursuit of Perrin makes a bit more sense. I know, I know, 'getting what she wants' and 'Ogier's Oath', but she's still too pushy.

[Duskfire]

With Berelain I just don't see it. I've seen the theory presented before and it just doesn't feel right to me. Annoura probably is despite my earlier thoughts, but Berelain being a pain with Perrin isn't a sign of following the DO. If that was, then Tylin would also be a darkfriend, or Tuon, or any pushy girl really. Not to mention, Perrin is ta`veren; her infatuation with him may not neccessarily be her fault, but simply her thread being caught up in his web.

 

 

[Juggler]

it would put a good balance on the 2 women after perrin, much like elayne and lanfear with rand early on.

 

or better still the bashere FAMILY - Davram in the dragons army, Faile after Perrin. that would be a twist and a half.

[The Fisher King]

And also, Dyelin is Seriosuly HOT!!!

 

Fish