[DPR Mafia] Suras 4 - Mafia wins!

Barmacral · July 5, 2010

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]. Vote [glow=red,2,300]Lia[/glow]; I've been mildly convinced by the various accusations being thrown around.

Such as?

Alys Kinch · July 5, 2010

blah, view, vig kill and heal. with mafia having the added nk. heh. easy to lose track of where my thoughts are when i can't look at posts to reorient my thoughts while typing.

LilyElizabeth · July 5, 2010

Adella, you go from 'bad excuse' and 'slip up' to 'scummy' without quite explaining why and seemingly without due consideration. I understand why you consider my actions to not match up to the ideal, slow, methodical townie; yet it is a large jump from 'townie who focused on one person who did not vote' to 'mafioso who deliberately targeted one person'. I accept that you may be town wishing to judge my reaction to pressure, though the general tone of your post seems to me to indicate that you are more likely scum trying to get a wagon on an easy target. To indicate why, I shall first explain my observations of the game of mafia. These observations are the result of much playing of mafia - far too much, really, to be healthy.

Town wins by scumhunting - the process of finding mafia. Ideally, every townie should be doing this during the day to maximise their benefit to the town and therefore enhance their chances of winning. This involves voting for people, lynching people, and analysing reactions and behaviour of people involved in such. This is why I don't like it when people don't bother voting, especially given our 48 hour deadline.

Mafia win by devious manipulation of the town into mislynching, which they accomplish by pretending to scumhunt. Obviously, due to their alignment, they cannot actually scumhunt unless there are multiple teams of mafia in the game, and even then not very well. Since they cannot scumhunt, their play can at times be 'unnatural' as they try to fit in or steer the town (here we view scumhunting from another angle: the town's spotting of this unnatural behaviour leads to the mafia's downfall), and this - to get to the point - is what I fear that I see in Adella's play. She displays a lamentable lack of scumhunting and a regrettable surfeit of bandwagoning.

Woah, I hear you say! All this, Pandy, from a single vote? Aren't you moving a bit fast, becoming Mynd version II, stirring the grass to cut the snakes? Well... maybe. However, consider also her ridiculous accusation that Red and I are on the same team, trying to simultaneously lead the town in two different directions in the hope that one will stick - and this while she agrees that both Red and I have good points! Pah. Jeran - Lily - Adella. I'm calling it now.

The first part just feels really "not right" to me. It seems devious, but I'm not sure why.

Secondly, I'm calling you out on doing exactly that. You are building up to leading the town where you want us to go. I know I'm town. I'm guessing your other "suspects" are, too.

And third, NOT voting until later in the day on day one is my MO, so how exactly is that unnatural?

And fourth, wall of text. I hope people bother to read it. It drips scumminess to me.

Liathiana · July 5, 2010

Doesn't to me *shrugs* Makes sense.

Lo13, voting for me because Barm voted for me for blatantly bandwagonning while DOING THE SAME THING YOURSELF

Liathiana · July 5, 2010

... What the hell, I did not hit enter. GRR.

Anyways, look really bad! At least Barm had somewhat of a reason and not something I'm going to OMGUS vote him for, because he's entirely correct. You on the other hand, are a much better vote than Red ;)

[glow=red,2,300]unvote[/glow]

[glow=red,2,300]Lo13[/glow]

Do we know our Candidates yet or did I miss that?

Jeran · July 6, 2010

with it not being a hammer game i agree that there's no push for the voting like what Pandy is suggesting.

Actually I see this being used as an excuse not to vote.

Each Day, every player must vote who they feel is mafia.

Be careful about not voting with short days and the above quote from the rules you may find yourself a goner.

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]

Both Adella and Lily seemed to be bandwagoning when they jumped on and voted pandy. I'll go with [glow=red,2,300]Lily[/glow] because her reason was somewhat more feeble. (Although Adella was using a wall of text.)

LilyElizabeth · July 6, 2010

Sorry, Jeran, I'm not bandwagoning, and I'm finding it suspicious that you would say so. I spelled out my reasons pretty clearly, which are reasonably solid for day one. If Pandy flips scum, I'll look your way tomorrow. This looks like trying to save a teammate to me.

Jeran · July 6, 2010

Granted you spelled out a reason, but somebody looking bloodthirsty didn't float my boat even on day 1.

Daetirion · July 6, 2010

Each Day, every player must vote who they feel is mafia.

Be careful about not voting with short days and the above quote from the rules you may find yourself a goner.

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]

Although, to remind people, voting No Lynch is an alternative.

LilyElizabeth · July 6, 2010

No, Jeran. This is the post where I spelled out my reasons. By bloodthirsty, I meant aggressive, but that's Pandy's MO. That reason no longer holds water for me, really, either. But these do.

Adella, you go from 'bad excuse' and 'slip up' to 'scummy' without quite explaining why and seemingly without due consideration. I understand why you consider my actions to not match up to the ideal, slow, methodical townie; yet it is a large jump from 'townie who focused on one person who did not vote' to 'mafioso who deliberately targeted one person'. I accept that you may be town wishing to judge my reaction to pressure, though the general tone of your post seems to me to indicate that you are more likely scum trying to get a wagon on an easy target. To indicate why, I shall first explain my observations of the game of mafia. These observations are the result of much playing of mafia - far too much, really, to be healthy.

Town wins by scumhunting - the process of finding mafia. Ideally, every townie should be doing this during the day to maximise their benefit to the town and therefore enhance their chances of winning. This involves voting for people, lynching people, and analysing reactions and behaviour of people involved in such. This is why I don't like it when people don't bother voting, especially given our 48 hour deadline.

Mafia win by devious manipulation of the town into mislynching, which they accomplish by pretending to scumhunt. Obviously, due to their alignment, they cannot actually scumhunt unless there are multiple teams of mafia in the game, and even then not very well. Since they cannot scumhunt, their play can at times be 'unnatural' as they try to fit in or steer the town (here we view scumhunting from another angle: the town's spotting of this unnatural behaviour leads to the mafia's downfall), and this - to get to the point - is what I fear that I see in Adella's play. She displays a lamentable lack of scumhunting and a regrettable surfeit of bandwagoning.

Woah, I hear you say! All this, Pandy, from a single vote? Aren't you moving a bit fast, becoming Mynd version II, stirring the grass to cut the snakes? Well... maybe. However, consider also her ridiculous accusation that Red and I are on the same team, trying to simultaneously lead the town in two different directions in the hope that one will stick - and this while she agrees that both Red and I have good points! Pah. Jeran - Lily - Adella. I'm calling it now.

The first part just feels really "not right" to me. It seems devious, but I'm not sure why.

Secondly, I'm calling you out on doing exactly that. You are building up to leading the town where you want us to go. I know I'm town. I'm guessing your other "suspects" are, too.

And third, NOT voting until later in the day on day one is my MO, so how exactly is that unnatural?

And fourth, wall of text. I hope people bother to read it. It drips scumminess to me.

JenLenaMom · July 6, 2010

Ok I hate to be the lame person who says this but...After having lots of fun with my family this weekend I haven't read this thread at all. And today after a ten hour drive is no time to try to digest 5 pages of heavy play. I'm just checking in and promise to do a complete read through in the AM when I get to work.

Adella · July 6, 2010

When did I use a wall of text? Hopefully you had all read what I quoted before, I just use quotes to point out what I'm responding/referring to. My actualy reasoning wasn't that long, it just made sense ::)

Hybrid · July 6, 2010

My actualy reasoning wasn't that long, it just made sense ::)

I disagree.

If I think Player X is super scummish (that one's for you, Verbal ;) ), I'm going to do everything I can to persuade the other players to vote for him. Attempting to lead the players somewhere is not in itself scummy. It's part of the game. If the reasoning behind the persuasion is incorrect, incomplete, etc. then I'd see your point. But...

From your post, I got the understanding that:

a) Pandy is trying to lead the players to not hold back from voting

b) Pandy has a good point

c) Pandy is the scummiest player in the game so far for calling out Lily on it

I agree with a) and b). But I do not see how a) and b) lead to c).

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote

Vote Adella[/glow]

Lavinya · July 6, 2010

You get sick for a few days, and look what happens! What seems like a crazy ridiculous bandwagon and walls of text. Must say, love that stuff is happening. I don't see how Pandy is scum though, not particularly. He looks no scummier than anyone jumping on the bandwagon for half-baked reasons.

I hate hate hate putting out a random vote. I hate bandwagons. Unless I'm mafia. Bandwagons really rock when you're scum. So do lazy people who find it easier to jump onto your bandwagon. So my heckles are being raised already. We could well have a lot of information come day two. Or we could have a lot of dead innocents. Everyone having a vig kill seriously terrifies me lol - use them wisely people! Please!

Anyway, I'm not convinced of anyone's guilt at this point in time, certainly not Pandy's.

[glow=red,2,300]VOTE No Lynch[/glow] - until convinced otherwise. It would be nice to have enough townies around to vote for the town candidate at the end of the game, don't you think?

Hybrid · July 6, 2010

i was toying with the idea, dae, but every option i see (such as assigned views) is thwarted right away by lll's and untrusting innocents. it'll be easy for confusion based on everyone having an nk and vk and a heal. no predictability beyond many actions going to central parties- essentially meaning a lot will be wasted. count on mafia playing with that in mind. so... with that in mind, does anyone have any ideas to help counter this without this level of trust being the major caveat?

I was actually thinking about something similar.

We could assign viewings, but overlap them. Pick a third of the players by some method (most suspicious, most active, arbitrary, etc.) and assign three people to view each one. For example, Players 1,2,3 view Player 4. Players 4,5,6 view Player 7. Etc.

Pros:

- No wasted views. People won't die without having used their view (except maybe a lynch today).

- Lost of information, fast. We cut down the list of suspects by a third, giving us a shorter list to focus on for early game. We also might catch a bunch of mafia right off the bat.

- Trust factor helped by cross-checking viewings. Cross checking means we know which viewers are more trustworthy. Ditto for viewees.

(Ex. 1,2,3 say 4 is innocent. 4,5,6 say 7 is innocent. 7 is likely innocent.

1,2,3 say 4 is scum. 4 says 7 is innocent. 5,6 says 7 is scum. 4,7 likely scum.)

Cons:

- Mafia will likely lie (unless they view one of their own). So we probably won't catch anyone in a lie.

- We hand a gift-wrapped hit list of proven innocents to the mafia.

- If we get monumentally unlucky with the viewing assignments, mafia will all view each other in a way that clears them. Long shot, but possible.

Definitely not a great plan. Just food for thought.

cosmicpanda · July 6, 2010

Lily darling, walls of text are not scummy. I'd like to see how you try to explain they are, actually (and why, presumably, spam isn't - or why walls of text from me should be scummy when I play lots of mafia on mafiascum, where walls of text are nearly obligatory). The way you completely change your reasoning under pressure looks like scum squirming. Keep doing it, it's cute :-*

In direct reply to your belated reasoning: 1) lol. :D 2) So how exactly am I pretending to scumhunt, then? What signs to you see in my posts that apply to people other than yourself? (It's not like people can take your word on it that you're town, and even if you are, it's not like you're guaranteed to be right about my being scum - because, like, you're not.) 3) Okay, you're claiming meta on the usually not-voting. Convenient one to have, I must say. 4) Addressed above. Finally, I'd quite like you to explain why you're answering for Adella, since that post was really addressed to her.

Adella, no reply to the actual points I made in that post? I didn't type it all out for nothing (or for Lily, come to that, charming as she may be otherwise).

Hybrid, yes, town should check each other, but realistically we won't be able to organise a systematic way of doing it with a game this size. We shouldn't declare who we're investigating today, since then mafia will be able to try to kill all of the people targeting them. People should just investigate who they feel is a good target, and declare their results tomorrow. DO NOT WASTE VIGS OR PROTECTS TONIGHT.

Adella · July 6, 2010

Pandy I don't do big long posts from my phone. I get confused and write something that almost always is incorrect. I do a few lines or one point. I'm not ignoring you but thanks for reminding me.

Barmacral · July 6, 2010

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]

[glow=red,2,300]Vote: Lord of 13[/glow]

Lia's moved to a real vote for a good reason. Lo13 is being a hypocrite by voting for Lia for the reasons I gave, making it a blatant bandwagon.

LilyElizabeth · July 6, 2010

Pandy, you know perfectly well that I can't out-argue you. Sadly, putting a little pressure on you didn't get me anything but the knowledge that you are a bit of an ass. (You know I mean that with all the love in the world.) I already was aware of this, so *sigh* [glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]

You don't seem to be scummy, or no scummier than usual. And you know I can usually nail you when you are.

Jeran, however, does deserve a second look. That was an interesting jump to Pandy's defense. I'm going to muse over why that might be. If Pandy's not scum..... hmm, I need to think on this a bit. And reread the story.

Pookie · July 6, 2010

Caught up and checking in.

I'm going to have to go with [glow=red,2,300]Jeran[/glow]

You point out that Wombat also posted without voting (Lily did first, just for the record) and that we don't need a majority for a lynch (I presume to dubunk the size of the game as a reason to prod people for votes), and hop on the Pandy wagon (vote position #3). Then Pandy links your name with Lily (twice) and Adella and your next post you're pointing out that the rules imply that not voting would be a bad thing and hop on the Lily wagon (vote position #3 again (Red's count is missing Wombat's vote)) using her bandwagoning as an excuse. Regardless of whether you and Lily really are on a team (I'm leaning towards not at the moment), it looks like a move to distance yourself from her after feeling like you defended too much. Add in that you're voting for her for bandwagoning and the pot-kettle phrase comes to mind.

ETA: I wrote this before Lily's last post but didn't get it posted right away. Her mild FOS on Jeran is interesting as well.

Talya · July 6, 2010

Alys, The only thing I can suggest is that all townies refrain from their night kills unless they have a viewing that someone was mafia. That way anyone that is mafia will be the only people doing the night kills. (they are unlikely to kill their own!) That should help give us a little information.

Later on in the game, we may need to change this, but I think that would be the best way to go!

I had a thought. how do we know which Beva Perrada is Mafia (I'm talking about the Minister or the Captain). either side could be the mafia. I'm guessing here that we all support Beva Perrada. But as we have two people who have been called that, we don't know which one is the supposed to be the good guy! The Ministers choice or the Captain!

Barmacral · July 6, 2010

Traditionally, the Minister has always been on the good side. I wouldn't bank on either of them being bad guys though. The mafia is like as not some third party.

LilyElizabeth · July 6, 2010

I couldn't sleep and was thinking. (C'mon, you know you do that, too! :P) I think the best thing to do is go with no lynch until we get some viewings.

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow] (I think I am, but just in case)

[glow=red,2,300]Vote no lynch[/glow]

Adella · July 6, 2010

To be honest Pandy, you are asking for a reply to you points now? You had commented after the initial reply I made, and didn't bother about it then. Why now are you asking for clarification on what I think? I saw your post as a statement, not as a question that required any special response...

This is our posts following my post that so bothered Pandy ::)

WARNING! Wall of text! You do not HAVE to read the quotes, hopefully you will already know them.

Adella, you go from 'bad excuse' and 'slip up' to 'scummy' without quite explaining why and seemingly without due consideration. I understand why you consider my actions to not match up to the ideal, slow, methodical townie; yet it is a large jump from 'townie who focused on one person who did not vote' to 'mafioso who deliberately targeted one person'. I accept that you may be town wishing to judge my reaction to pressure, though the general tone of your post seems to me to indicate that you are more likely scum trying to get a wagon on an easy target. To indicate why, I shall first explain my observations of the game of mafia. These observations are the result of much playing of mafia - far too much, really, to be healthy.

Town wins by scumhunting - the process of finding mafia. Ideally, every townie should be doing this during the day to maximise their benefit to the town and therefore enhance their chances of winning. This involves voting for people, lynching people, and analysing reactions and behaviour of people involved in such. This is why I don't like it when people don't bother voting, especially given our 48 hour deadline.

Mafia win by devious manipulation of the town into mislynching, which they accomplish by pretending to scumhunt. Obviously, due to their alignment, they cannot actually scumhunt unless there are multiple teams of mafia in the game, and even then not very well. Since they cannot scumhunt, their play can at times be 'unnatural' as they try to fit in or steer the town (here we view scumhunting from another angle: the town's spotting of this unnatural behaviour leads to the mafia's downfall), and this - to get to the point - is what I fear that I see in Adella's play. She displays a lamentable lack of scumhunting and a regrettable surfeit of bandwagoning.

Woah, I hear you say! All this, Pandy, from a single vote? Aren't you moving a bit fast, becoming Mynd version II, stirring the grass to cut the snakes? Well... maybe. However, consider also her ridiculous accusation that Red and I are on the same team, trying to simultaneously lead the town in two different directions in the hope that one will stick - and this while she agrees that both Red and I have good points! Pah. Jeran - Lily - Adella. I'm calling it now.

Pandy I was gonna totally call you out on sounding like Mynd! :D

Anywhoo, wow, way to over react. I bet I would have earned an equally long post for having not voted. For now you are the most likely candidate in my mind as scum from what we have.

We also have a lot of people who need to check in and possibility for you to be pushed down my list. Don't get your panties in a bunch hun. ;)

Oh, but I'm quite serious.

When did I use a wall of text? Hopefully you had all read what I quoted before, I just use quotes to point out what I'm responding/referring to. My actualy reasoning wasn't that long, it just made sense ::)

Lily darling, walls of text are not scummy. I'd like to see how you try to explain they are, actually (and why, presumably, spam isn't - or why walls of text from me should be scummy when I play lots of mafia on mafiascum, where walls of text are nearly obligatory). The way you completely change your reasoning under pressure looks like scum squirming. Keep doing it, it's cute :-*

In direct reply to your belated reasoning: 1) lol. :D 2) So how exactly am I pretending to scumhunt, then? What signs to you see in my posts that apply to people other than yourself? (It's not like people can take your word on it that you're town, and even if you are, it's not like you're guaranteed to be right about my being scum - because, like, you're not.) 3) Okay, you're claiming meta on the usually not-voting. Convenient one to have, I must say. 4) Addressed above. Finally, I'd quite like you to explain why you're answering for Adella, since that post was really addressed to her.

Adella, no reply to the actual points I made in that post? I didn't type it all out for nothing (or for Lily, come to that, charming as she may be otherwise).

Hybrid, yes, town should check each other, but realistically we won't be able to organise a systematic way of doing it with a game this size. We shouldn't declare who we're investigating today, since then mafia will be able to try to kill all of the people targeting them. People should just investigate who they feel is a good target, and declare their results tomorrow. DO NOT WASTE VIGS OR PROTECTS TONIGHT.

Pandy I don't do big long posts from my phone. I get confused and write something that almost always is incorrect. I do a few lines or one point. I'm not ignoring you but thanks for reminding me.

The italics are all I saw as being addressed to me, and while I'm sure you saw your argument as good, I saw nothing that I felt necessary to address other than what I already said. All of you have the rights to your own opinions. It's mafia, your own personal opinion and suspicions could win the game for the town if you are correct. And I did address your post, directly after you posted it. Obviously you have the mechanics of the game down on how town and scum generally work, you've been playing long enough, but you also didn't point out that there are always players who wont fit into the mold. Always. In every single game.

DPR · July 6, 2010

Oh, this is wonderful!

I've updated the rules post with a player list, which will be kept up to date as far as player deaths go.

I'm going to hold off on a vote count for now. heh

Let all of your ideas simmer a bit more. A lot happens tongiht.

You have just under 12 hours until nightfall.

[DPR Mafia] Suras 4 - Mafia wins!

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