Matts a better case for the Dragon then Rand!

[Canis Rufus]

Barid Bel Medar- I addressed most of your points already Please refer to the early post.

 

As for the other concerns, “Rand's memories of LTT is not just madness, it is because he IS LTT, true the actual voice was madness, but he knew all of those things because he IS LTT, he remembers.”  How do you think mat knows all those battle plans, dances or Languages?  It’s not hazy sudo-memories Mat full on knows and remembers every time, I don’t see your false dragon doing that.  “Oh I want to channel, um maybe this time I can remember… Nope oh well I’m not as cool as Matt Boo Hoo.” :'(

 

"One of the Prophecies says that the Stone of Tear will never fall until the People of the Dragon come to the Stone. Another says the Stone will never fall till the Sword That Cannot Be Touched is wielded by the Dragon's hand."

 

Was Mat alone? Noooooo We already proved that there is reasonable doubt that Two Rivers could have likely been started from any one of the Original Aiel that were set to wandering after the breaking. And consider that Mat was going in to recscue his people.

 

 

And let’s think about a “Sword that cannot be touched.”  This is can be layered with meaning.  First Callandor is not the definitive meaning; it is only the popular one.  Consider for a minute that mat literally made the Stone Fall with an explosive that was neither magic nor being.  This use of tech would have been described as best as could have been understood by the writers.  An implement of destruction that cannot be touched, so when Mat wielded his sword that can not be touched for the first time Tear fell, Callandor was again a feint.  Think about it, who put callandor there? Why? Most importantly when?  Rand has racked his brain to figure out the importance of Callandor in the Prophecy and has come up with null.  But when you consider the fact that mat will be wielding lighting a Sword that can’t be touched.  He is fulfilling two prophecies at once.     

 

Lastly as for the bending Knee thing, they can’t touch him they have to bend to his will as they have no way to bully him.  Rand on the other hand get his @&& handed to him repeatedly because they can.  Mat holds them all at bay the power doesn’t work on him.  I’d call that bending to his will.           

 

[Dreamwalker]

CanisRufus and Bellanoire -

 

You still have not addressed the Dragons on the arms in the Aiel Prophecy. You tried to address the Dragons and Herons from an earlier prophecy (an explanation I still don't buy since you say he's marked the Dragon through his connection to Rand the "false Dragon" - having him be marked the Dragon being a reference to a connection with Rand is pretty much saying that Rand IS the Dragon, b/c otherwise Mat should be the Dragon on his own merits) but the Aiel prophecy is more explicit in not just saying that he must be marked "twice the Dragon", but that he actually has to have two Dragons on his arms. I don't see how you could explain away that.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think your both as mad as LTT. You have not justified any of your arguments, they are all just extreme "ideas" I have no idea how you can call them that. There is no proof to anything you say but all proof to Rand being the Dragon. The stone of tear fell. Did mat wield any kind of sword there? No. Rand took Callandor. The sword that is not a sword. A sa'angrel. The Cooramoor prophecy says the one to hold the sword and take the stone is a channeler, you have not explained that. YOu have not explained the cutting wounds of maddness that is healed. Rand did that, Mat hasnt. You havent adressed how mat is specifically mentioned in the prophecies NOT as the DR but as perrin is.

We have PROOF that Mat is born and raised in the Two rivers, he was not born on the slopes of Dragonmount. His parents, Nynaeve and the whole village know this, or else somebody would have said something. What of the breaking of the Aiel and making them see the truth? that was rand telling them they were of the way of the Leaf. He shall be marked with dragons on his arms. this is aiel and in the karatheon.

You have not adressed binding the shadowspawn to him. Mat does not such thing but Rand binds Asmodean. Mat has not achieved any of the prophecies, it wont turn out in the last two books he has a fit and fulfills them all. its plain foolishness. unless you actually have a sensible argument dont bother posting. I dont mind people disagreeing with certain theories, but this is rubbish and you know it.

 

SO provide me with REAL, LOGICAL answers to these points and then i may conceed.

[Dream]

Dreamwalker -

 

The prophecies never specified that the marks would be tattoos on the arms.  Couladin also was so marked and he's not the real Dragon either.

 

As to how Mat is marked, remember what Mat has Aludra working on?  That's right - DRAGONS.  And what are dragons but glorified fireworks.

 

So:

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay

 

Once at the Stone, because ... uh, I forget.

Twice with Aludra, who gave him a list of the costs.

 

(This is fun!)

 

 

Barid Bel Medar -

 

You need to calm down and join the dark side.

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

i dont mind, but the thing is, i dont think these people think it as a joke, they are serious.

 

Ill have a laugh, but this is ridiculous, i mean really? If they admit it was a joke, then yeah, ill play along and try to think of ways mat could fulfill the prophecies, however, i really dont think its possible.

 

And in any case, why should i not argue seriously when they are also arguing seriously, I have nothing against them, and when i say foolish and such, its not meant to be taken in a cruel way, just a little shake of my head for a crazy idea.

 

its frustrating when they continue to argue without any actual viable evidence and rebuke others posts with little care or thought

 

Anyway, thats my 2 cents, I will say no more on the matter, if that is the belief people wish to have, fair enough with me, just dont expect any sympathy when it is utterly destroyed in the last two books.

 

Hahha, on that note, if it does prove to be true, well then, i suppose i would be the fool and take it all in stride ;D ;D ;D

[farthammer]

The most likely explanation is the proponents of the Mat = Dragon theory are Great Lord of the Dark role players from some other place on the internet sent here to destroy any credible speculation/theorization.

[Barid Bel Medar]

The most likely explanation is the proponents of the Mat = Dragon theory are Great Lord of the Dark role players from some other place on the internet sent here to destroy any credible speculation/theorization.

 

So THATS what Demandred has been up to! ;D

[Dreamwalker]

Dreamwalker -

 

The prophecies never specified that the marks would be tattoos on the arms.  Couladin also was so marked and he's not the real Dragon either.

 

As to how Mat is marked, remember what Mat has Aludra working on?  That's right - DRAGONS.  And what are dragons but glorified fireworks.

 

So:

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay

 

Once at the Stone, because ... uh, I forget.

Twice with Aludra, who gave him a list of the costs.

 

(This is fun!)

 

 

I know that the Karaethon cycle (which is what you quoted) just says he will be marked twice the Dragon, not necessarily on his arms - but if you read all of my post you'll see I'm not talking about the Karaethon cycle, I'm talking about the Aiel prophecy, which says that He who comes with the Dawn would have two Dragons on his arms. And we know that He who comes with the Dawn and the Dragon Reborn are the same because of their relation to the fall of the Stone of Tear. So I wanted to know how on earth Mat is supposed to fulfill the Aiel prophecy of having two Dragons on his arms.

 

Though the rest of your post looks like you may have been just playing around...

[DemandredFO]

Everyone should just let this thread die.  DemandredFO out

[Hadilmir]

Successful troll has broken the old record of 4 pages and is currently leading with *7* pages.

 

I'm agreeing with Demandred, but I still think he needs to come out of hiding sometime in the next book.

 

*This is getting quite ridiculous; I must congratulate you, Bellanoire.

[mhael784]

What if somehow the wheel split the dragon's soul in three?

1.Rand-The Stone of Tear will never fall, till Callandor is wielded by the Dragon’s hand.

The Stone of Tear will never fall, till the People of the Dragon come.

 

2.Mat-Fortune rides like the sun on high

with the fox that makes the ravens fly.

Luck his soul, the lightning his eye,

He snatches the moons from out of the sky

 

3.Perrin-When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known

[alannalynn]

What if somehow the wheel split the dragon's soul in three?

 

I've been thinking the same, but more so leaning towards Mat and Perrin as (very important) helpers. Lews Therin Kinslayer didn't do too well on his own, did he? O_o

[Bela_theDo]

No soul splits. I think there was a quote of RJ somewhere...

 

 

[Luckers]

There is. Souls cannot be split.

[azrael.1289]

GLoD himself calls Rand Dragon, and I think he knows a thing or two more about Dragon than you....

[Bela_theDo]

Also...Arthur calls Rand Lews Therin,too,and Rand is the only one who gets to hear the madman Lews' voice...I mean..come on  :P

[Canis Rufus]

To you all this was extremely well on both sides.  ;D  For those of you that took this a bit too seriously well please remember it’s just a book.  ::)  As for Mat being the DR well the wheel wills as the Wheel Wills.  (ten points for saying it three times fast.  :o )

 

On a quick side note if you did however enjoy the friendly banter and enjoyable humor please feel free to visit the [shadow=red,left]Band of the Red Hand [/shadow] where we all know that Mat is the true leader.

 

Again to those that may have been offended, aggravated, exasperated, frustrated, annoyed, bewildered, irked, vexed, provoked, peeved, riled or any other numerous adjectives of implicative intent we of the Cavalry are sorry.  For those that can enjoy the subtle and substantially dry beauty of this humor, you’re welcome, please stop by to hi.  

 

Magnus Canis Rufus

Purveyor of Pranks

Captain-General of the Cavalry

Stirrer of the Pot

 

[Cirin]

This is all hogwash.  We've known since book four that Couladin is the car'a'carn, and is likely the Dragon Reborn as well.  He's even died, so once he lives again he's got that one in the bag too!  And since he's Aiel, his blood is flowing in Rand's veins!  His death in battle led the Shaido to ultimately settle down by some town, where Perrin destroyed them - destroyed by the sword of peace!  I could go on.  Couladin is the Dragon Reborn.

[Bellanoire]

lol, *bows out of the thread*

 

hmmm so this thing made 6 pages! wonder if thats a record.

 

as for the one or two that where actually being disparaging towards Canis and I, everyone else took this thread for exactly what it was. This board is after all for free discussion and any idea posted should be treated with the upmost respect, agreeing with it or not is irrelavent, excepting the most commonly believe theroys is irrelevant. You should obviously take the time to read these books, because some of your arguments where down right wrong.

 

There is alot of suppossition(sp) in the theorys that yuo pratted as fact, and even some of the prophecies you claimed where not even prophecies. I don't believe Matt is the Dragon Reborn, it was mearly an exercise for the Band.

 

If you find things like this truelly offened you then maybe you should take a step back from these boards and realize this is a book, a work of fiction and these things will not actually happen. Your proper response should have been one of humor and maybe trying to work it out so Matt could be the Dragon Reborn, not in rebuking me or my fellow band memberes.

 

fyi these comments where for the two individuals who instead of being good natured even while arguing instead desides to toss derogator comments at us, they should be ashamed for treating anyone that way, If someone did come to these boards with something yuo considered a stupid theroy, there where other ways to get your point across then getting all high and mighty and being crewl, everyone has a right to be heard and treated with respect. Shame on yuo two.!

 

Luckers I've Known you a long time, although yuo may not rememeber me but i rememeber you used to keep poeple from being that rude. weather yuo agreeed with them or not. I don't know maybe yuo just weren't around for most of the thread?

[Suttree]

lol, *bows out of the thread*

 

hmmm so this thing made 6 pages! wonder if thats a record.

 

as for the one or two that where actually being disparaging towards Canis and I, everyone else took this thread for exactly what it was. This board is after all for free discussion and any idea posted should be treated with the upmost respect, agreeing with it or not is irrelavent, excepting the most commonly believe theroys is irrelevant. You should obviously take the time to read these books, because some of your arguments where down right wrong.

 

There is alot of suppossition(sp) in the theorys that yuo pratted as fact, and even some of the prophecies you claimed where not even prophecies. I don't believe Matt is the Dragon Reborn, it was mearly an exercise for the Band.

 

If you find things like this truelly offened you then maybe you should take a step back from these boards and realize this is a book, a work of fiction and these things will not actually happen. Your proper response should have been one of humor and maybe trying to work it out so Matt could be the Dragon Reborn, not in rebuking me or my fellow band memberes.

 

fyi these comments where for the two individuals who instead of being good natured even while arguing instead desides to toss derogator comments at us, they should be ashamed for treating anyone that way, If someone did come to these boards with something yuo considered a stupid theroy, there where other ways to get your point across then getting all high and mighty and being crewl, everyone has a right to be heard and treated with respect. Shame on yuo two.!

 

Luckers I've Known you a long time, although yuo may not rememeber me but i rememeber you used to keep poeple from being that rude. weather yuo agreeed with them or not. I don't know maybe yuo just weren't around for most of the thread?

 

I have no connection to the two members using disparaging comments and flat out name calling has no place on the board. If you look back you will see I asked people to stop treating this like a serious topic pages ago. Equal shares of the blame needs to fall on you however. Goading people into exasperation with BS topics and then trying to take the moral high ground? Has the Band truly fallen so far in our age?

[Barid Bel Medar]

If some of my comments have been taken as offensive, I apologise for that, as stated in an earlier comment, they were not to be taken as an offence, just a shake of the head, i understnd that they may have been taken as offensive, but it was not intended to be so (perhaps the words have different significance in different countries).

 

However, there was no indication that this debate was supposed to be humorous. I know it was a ridiculous idea, but ive seen far worse seriously contended, and when you goad people into the arguements, you have to expect for people to get frustrated, so you have no moral highground. As for the idea of posting ridiculous theories as a joke, it should be stated that they are so. to do it just to goad people is immature. to do it, then complain about peoples responses is irresponsible.

Know that not all people on the forum know everything concerning these "troll" debates, some have lives apart from posting crazy topics.

[talligan]

I thought we all agreed that Bela was the dragon reborn.

[farthammer]

Haha Berid unfortunately you have now been trolled twice by the same person.