Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Mat is Popular Choice, But-Which General is Really Most Qualified To Lead at TG?


The Fisher King
 Share

Recommended Posts

We should PROBABLY keep the list of conteneders for the title of ''Mr Top GeneraL Guy of The Forces of Light and Team Rand at Tarmon Gai'dan and The Last Battle Deal and All That Stuff'' to the Great Captains...though we sure do NOT have to!!! ... Perrin anyone??? ... Oh, and also, you know, LIVING people. LOL!

 

Who has the best RESUME???

 

1 Pedron Niall ...Oh, wait, hes Toast lol! Thats right...but man, ironic as it may have been, I think the Ol Boy may well have been able to get the job done.

 

2 Gareth Bryne - He certainly has the rep and did very well helping out the rebels, but, I have a feeling that Last Battle is going to be a bit more to chew on that a relatively small-scale Aes Sedai uprising.

 

BUT. BUT BUT BUT...We've been told TG will feature thousands of Trollocs pouring out and there were like 300 TOTAL Aes Sedai in the whole world...you gotta pass this guy by as a viable choice.

 

 

3 Rodel Ilturade...Okay Kee Doh Kay...Everybody here knows I am experiencing MAD MAN-LOVE as of Crossroads of Twilight for this chap...and, uh, the only general that I seen ever or never as good at pulling off battle victories when BADLY outnumbered is probably Cauthon...Rodels a stud, pure and simple, can anyone really disagree on that? If I put this guy in charge at The Last Battle, I would have no regrets and have a feeling of at least having a chance...

 

 

4 Mat Cauthon...the thing that bugs me, not so much on this Board, but among alot of fans I know, is that he gets the nod as much from him being such a popular and likeable guy as much as for his actual skill militarily....If I were Mat and I wanted the job at TG (which, knowing Mat, he probably does NOT, bc, well, a man can get killed DEAD in a battle that large, and holes poked in his coat too!!! - even if a general IS wise enough to stay way out of the fighting lol) I would say...''Hey, remember That Battle in KOD and That Battle in FOH where I pulled off Bad A$$ and Bloody Brlliant miracles worthy of Ilturade and his Pirannah Victories???...Nuff Said!!!''

 

 

5 Davram Bashere...To me, hes kinda like Team Rand's version of Demandred...he has this AWESOME Reputation, but have we actually ever seen him DO anything onscreen to live up to it militarily-speaking...I would even pick Bryne over him!!! ... Also, Bashere seems to put great faith in structure and order in his Battle Plans...I have a Feeling TG is going to be a FLY BY THE SEAT OF YOUR PANTS kinda deal....

 

 

So, In Conclusion , I have to say, Mat would be my choice but I could not get mad at anyone who picked Ilturade...i mean, Niall is kinda DEAD and all, lol, and Bryne and Bashere seem to be washed-up has-beens living on reputation as I just haven't seen them do enough to sway me...

 

 

Fish

 

 

 

OH!!! How could I forget Aglemar Jahad?!...a worthy choice...Id take him over Gareth or Davram, but not as my top pick or two...

 

 

Honorable mentions...Perrin, Lan Al Mandragoran and Rhuarc...heck, even that one cool seanchan general chick that Perrin hangs out with alot in the later books...can never remember her name...they all seem to really know their battle stuff preal good too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mat is the best choice. Thanks to his memories, he has more battle experience then the rest of your list combined. He has already proven that he can use thie knowledge to win battles(FoH, KoD). And he is the only one that has any experience fighting hundred of thousands of Trolloc.

As Bashere mentioned in KoD, a large Trolloc raid in the Borderlands is 1000 Trolloc. During the Trolloc Wars battles with 300 000 on each side were not uncommon. Mat remember how they won those battles, which is why he should be in charge.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that Cauthon DOES have all of the necessary KNOWLEDGE stuffed inside his head to be the obvious choice, but he does NOT have the PRACTICAL Field Experience of the other candidates.

 

He has been a practicing Military Leader for less than two years, and his two victories (one in FOH, the other in KOD) while beyond impressive, do not make a career.

 

Basically, Rodel has spent the last several months doing every day what Mat has done twice.

 

Mind you, I probably would pick Mat as well...but...I don't think it is quite as Cut-And-Dry as you make it out to be.

 

 

JMO

 

 

Fish

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being stuffed with memories like he is, Mat certainly has more experience than any living commander, bar none. Even a channeler general would be hard pressed to fight as much unless he spent his entire life in a state of war. Add to that Mat's chance twisting and you get a pretty good candidate. On the other hand it is unknown if he would be able to cope with situations which his memories don't cover and he has no experience with large scale channeler battles.

 

My second choice would be Bashere. He's one of the best generals in the Westlands and he spent his career fending off incursions from the Blight so he knows the enemy and the terrain. Unfortunately he's unaccustomed to fighting large scale battles and Power use in battle.

 

Ituralde is another strong pick with his recent experience against the Seanchen. He knows how to fight against overwhelming odds and how to deal with enemy channelers. What he lacks is experience in dealing with shadowspawn and the Blight.

 

Other Great Captains don't have the advantages of Ituralde and Bashere while sharing disadvantages of both. Clearly an inferior alternative.

 

One more interesting possibility would be to give the command to a Seanchen general. They would have the experience in commanding large scale engagements with extensive OP use. Like Ituralde they would need advice concerning the enemy and terrain. I also doubt they are used to being outnumbered and forced to strike and retreat.

 

You're right, the choice isn't obvious, but Mat is the favorite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more interesting possibility would be to give the command to a Seanchen general. They would have the experience in commanding large scale engagements with extensive OP use. Like Ituralde they would need advice concerning the enemy and terrain. I also doubt they are used to being outnumbered and forced to strike and retreat.

 

 

IMO, ... I have to say that THAT is a VERY Cool suggestion.

 

 

Fish

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more interesting possibility would be to give the command to a Seanchen general. They would have the experience in commanding large scale engagements with extensive OP use. Like Ituralde they would need advice concerning the enemy and terrain. I also doubt they are used to being outnumbered and forced to strike and retreat.

 

Yep... ever victorious, 'nuff said. 

Though, you know Matt and the Seanchan leading TG light forces is like saying the same thing since he's princey-poo-cuddle-duck (or whatever) to the Empress (may she live forever!)

 

Chances are that Matt + his Dragons + Seachan General = FTW!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im curious, was Lews Therin a general?

That's an interesting question. A leader certainly, but a general ? He fought in battles and there is talk about his strategies and luck, but i don't remember ever reading directly about him being a military commander. If anyone remembers relevant quotes, I'd like to see them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to me that Rand may need more than one general to lead his troops at Tarmon Gaidon.

 

Mat, one of his roles at Tarmon Gaidon would be to blow the Horn (if his link to it remains).  Not sure if there would be time enough for him to lead troops.

 

Perhaps the combined strength of alive 5 after each like make an alliance with Rand.

Mat already is allied with Rand since both are friends. Bashere could be considered allied with Rand since both have met most frequently. There is a 3rd, but that is a Gathering Storm spoiler.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to me that Rand may need more than one general to lead his troops at Tarmon Gaidon.

 

Mat, one of his roles at Tarmon Gaidon would be to blow the Horn (if his link to it remains).  Not sure if there would be time enough for him to lead troops.

 

Perhaps the combined strength of alive 5 after each like make an alliance with Rand.

Mat already is allied with Rand since both are friends. Bashere could be considered allied with Rand since both have met most frequently. There is a 3rd, but that is a Gathering Storm spoiler.

 

 

This is right on, I'd say(cept for the part about Mat, I think he will be a big general for Rand at the end). Bryne, Iturlude, Bashere, Mat, and Agelmar will probably all do thier part in the Last Battle. Some of them may not even be tied to Rand directly(Bryne comes to mind) but they will all be needed come TG.

 

As for "Storming Shayol Ghul, need your top guy" kinda thing....sorry to pick the obvious answer but it's gotta be Mat. He has shown that those memories are more then just "Search under situation A to find solution to problem B" kinda stuff. They are a part of him, and he uses those strategies seamlessly. It's like a guitar player with muscle memory...he doesn't have to think about it, it just comes to him. And that makes him the most expirienced general.

 

Add on top of that that he's got the horn, and the twistiness of ta'veren, and his luck. Can you honestly say you would rather have anyone else leading your army when it all came down to it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 Rodel Ilturade...Okay Kee Doh Kay...Everybody here knows I am experiencing MAD MAN-LOVE as of Crossroads of Twilight for this chap...and, uh, the only general that I seen ever or never as good at pulling off battle victories when BADLY outnumbered is probably Cauthon...Rodels a stud, pure and simple, can anyone really disagree on that? If I put this guy in charge at The Last Battle, I would have no regrets and have a feeling of at least having a chance...

 

Well said.  Rodel is definitely the most skilled out of anyone we have seen against larger armies.  Can't wait until you see the guy in tGS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm personally not a Rodel Ilturade fan.  I feel like he was a character thrown into the mix late in the game just so there would be another bad a$$ general to do some of the dirty work rand needed done.  It was like Jordan woke up one morning and said "crap... I need to get this thing done and all the characters are busy.  Time to make another!"

 

I literally have had to force myself to read Rodel Ilturade's stuff in early books and only in this one did I not find myself completely screaming when his name appeared on the first page of a chapter.

 

So... if he dies off "tragically" early on, I'm not really sure I'll mourn him too much.  What is it that you guys find to be so awesome about this character?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Pedron Niall dead I would like Galahad nominated in his place. He is young without much experience, but he has proven to be quite capable.

 

When the War of Power began, Barid Bel started out opposing the Shadow. For the first three years of the war, he was a high-ranking general within the army, due to his strategic vision and tactical flair. The only thing that kept him from surpassing Lews Therin in this area was that he was a gambler, and put too much stock in taking risks.

 

When Lews Therin was promoted above him, Barid Bel was, of course, disgusted. Angry, he once went so far as to say that, with Lews Therin in charge, the Shadow had a better chance of winning. It was Lews Therin's promotion that finally pushed him over the edge. He traveled to Shayol Ghul to pledge his soul to the Dark One, and took the name Demandred. (TFoH, Ch. 3)

 

After a relationship with Mierin Eronaile soured, he married Ilyena Sunhair. Fifty years later, the War of Power began, and Lews Therin was named general of the forces of the Light, leading them to many great victories. At some time during the War of Power he humbled Ishamael in the Hall of Servants and defeated him at the Gates of Paaran Disen.

 

However, Lews Therin's greatest generals' jealousy got the best of them and they all defected to The Shadow, turning the war to their favor. When it seemed that the Light would lose, Lews Therin proposed the placing of seven seals to lock the Dark One away again. Latra Posae Decume and all strong female Aes Sedai opposed this, creating the Fateful Concord

 

If you want I can dig the actual quotes out of the books. Suffice to say Lews Therin was a great commander and general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have always seen matt as being the Top Dawg, but lately i have been thinking that with Travling, it should be more like how Rand was in the FOH. Away from the battle calling the shots, as lame as that sounds. Seems smartest to have all the Great Generals in a room with  giant map dispatching orders with  a few Novinces linked to make Gateways for courriers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm personally not a Rodel Ilturade fan.  I feel like he was a character thrown into the mix late in the game just so there would be another bad a$$ general to do some of the dirty work rand needed done.  It was like Jordan woke up one morning and said "crap... I need to get this thing done and all the characters are busy.  Time to make another!"

 

I literally have had to force myself to read Rodel Ilturade's stuff in early books and only in this one did I not find myself completely screaming when his name appeared on the first page of a chapter.

 

So... if he dies off "tragically" early on, I'm not really sure I'll mourn him too much.  What is it that you guys find to be so awesome about this character?

 

 

Just to note, Rodel was mentioned a few times in the earlier novels, and was mentioned in them as one of the greats. We just don't see him until late.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like his slightly quirky personality...

 

I like that we are in his head alot and I find his thought processes interesting...

 

I of course like some of these victories he has been pulling off...

 

I like that there is still a hint of mystery to him...

 

I just like him...Different Folks for Different Strokes :)

 

 

Fish

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 Davram Bashere...To me, hes kinda like Team Rand's version of Demandred...he has this AWESOME Reputation, but have we actually ever seen him DO anything onscreen to live up to it militarily-speaking...I would even pick Bryne over him!!! ... Also, Bashere seems to put great faith in structure and order in his Battle Plans...I have a Feeling TG is going to be a FLY BY THE SEAT OF YOUR PANTS kinda deal....

 

I keep hoping that Davram will turn out to be a darkfriend. Still waiting for the big btrayal. This story is about history repeating itself. The wheel turns and ages blah blah blah. Who will be the Lanfear of this age, the Ellan Morel! Even whiney guy who wanted immortality to finish his vynil collection Asmodean. Or better yet, who will be the Shadar Logoth who just shuts down against everything and evryone. I know I should post some of this on the "big un-known" spot but I think this ties with it. So far we have seen bad come to the good (Verin and Ingtar that I can re-call), so where's the newly converted good to bad that totally screws everything up. I want real nail biting tangible desperation instead of ominous tones from a can't be seen DO and his little puppeteers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know it's not the exact thing happening with every turning. I was just citing those as examples of human nature. There are those in this age who have there weeknesses and desires. I just want to see who it's going to be first. Obviously Taim, but that's been, well, obvious. Also, who will be the next Chosen? DO seems to be runnin short on those.

 

But, I digress from the topic at hand. From the direction TGS is going and where Lan was left off at the end of the previous we know a majority of the DO's forces will be at Tarwin's but I can't stop thinking bout the trollocs that attacked Kirgan. I can't help but think that it may have been a part of a larger host that hasn't been seen yet. Think back to FoH. Trollocs were coming into the TR. Yes, but why? The front most thing would be to "harry and flay the TW!" to draw RaT. If say, no one from the 3 stooges came to the rescue and the trollocs won, wouldn't that be great place to mass forces for a future attack? Back corner of nowhere. It would be pretty simple to keep word of anything from seeping out from there. I'm just thinking tha DO isn't as sraight forward a planner as that. He would have contingencies within contngencies. My point being with this tangent is that a line will be drawn in the sand at Tarwin but I don't believe it's going to come down to a General to General stand off. I believe and would love to see a mad cauldron of battles where it's just a matter of staying alive until Rand destroys the Do. It won't end there of course but it would send the dark reeling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The way I see it happening goes a little something like this:

 

Matt will be the man in charge of the military forces, with Bashere, Ituralde, Bryne, and perhaps a few others being his field generals.  As stated before, Mat has limited actual field time in the way of war, but has proven himself to be a master tactician.  Think back (can't remember which book) when the Shaido and the rest of the Aiel did battle outside of Cairhien.  Matt simply looked at a map and within seconds had concocted an entire battle plan, contingencies, faults, and weaknesses for both sides of the battle.  He also proved himself to be a more than capable field general in the ensuing chaos.

 

He has the ability to instantly analyze and adapt to, as it would seem, virtually any situation thrown before him, which is probably the most important aspect of being a military commander.

 

Ituralde has proven more than effective as a field general, but so far as we've seen he hasn't really proven that he can truly think on his feet.  His plans have been carefully thought out far in advance, and rely on time for preparation and misdirection.  I don't believe Tarmon Gaidon will afford him the luxury of enough time to prepare an encore of his previous feats.

 

I'll kind of lump Bryne into the same category.  He apparently has the experience, but the most we've really seen from him was a siege.  And even Gawyn was able to undermine his efforts to an extent with simple tactics.

 

We haven't seen much in the way of Bashere's abilities as a general, but he does have the knowledge and experience of fighting shadowspawn and of the blight, which will be invaluable come the last battle.

 

Depending on the exact situations, it's hard to predict what will happen where.  As it stands, Tarwin's Gap looks like a prime place for a major battle, but it won't take all of them to defend it.  And the blight border is very long and I doubt the DO will commit all of his forces to one spot.  Being as it is, Tarwin's Gap seems suitable for the like of Ituralde, prime ambush territory.  Let's not forget that Lan is on his way there, hopefully with an army.

 

Assuming that I'm correct, and the shapdowspawn attack on more than one front, Bryne can play his part by defending any other invading trolloc armies along the blight.

 

Again, assuming, that there is a direct assault on Shayol Ghul, as seems inevitable, Bashere would seem the logical choice to bring along to that party.  I have the feeling that it will probably be somewhat of a repeat of LTT's sealing of the bore; a massive battle nearby (Bashere) as a distraction, and a party of AS and Ashaman along with Rand at the bore.  Eventualy Matt and Perrin will have to get some hands on time in battle, Matt giving orders and trying to protect Rand's forces, and Perrin leading the wolves.

 

We also have several battle hungry generals from Cairhien, Tear, and Illian that I'm sure will get thrown into the fray, but more than likely they'll be not much more than trolloc fodder as far as I can tell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't even really think about the channeling part of the battles. (slaps himself in the head unnecessarily hard) If you couldn't get Kirgan from the Seanchan and all there damane wouldn't Logain be a pretty cool guy to have? How long was he ravaging Ghealdan for with his jolly-bag of Dragonsworn? Not much experience but he did to some significant damage. His value is worth more now, even. He has a good standing with an army of channelers/soldiers that have been gettin DRILLED with the intense purpose to be a weapon at TG. I'm sure there has been A LOT of military planning alon with there training.

 

Down side to him though, every plan he knows we're sure the soon to be Chosen Taim knows it as well. Logain is one of my favorites ever since the scene in Caemlyn. Captured and shielded but still lookin all bada$$ and arrogant. I really want to see some action from him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...