Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[EmperorAllspice]

Is there any non-channeler skilled enough to defeat Galad in a fight?

[Laica Sedai]

The way I understand it the way portal stones works is that it takes a traveler though a mirror world which then allow for space to be crosser quicker, like for example the Ways where made by male Aes Sedai who had studied the mirror worlds found through portal stones. The way traveling with portal stones is supposed to work I assume is either that the traveler or travelers are instantly transported to where they want to go by being sent through the mirror word. When Rand first use a portal stone and ends up in a mirror world that is a mistake done because he channels near it and have no idea what he is doing. The second time when he tries to transport a group through that is a mistake as well because he have no idea what he is doing. Someone who know how to use portal stones will transport him or herself and their group safely and instantly, at least how I understand it.

 

Did Rhand use the portal stone the first time? I honestly doubt it. We know it is possible, but Egwene had a dream about Rhand, sleeping next to the portal stone while a woman in white (Lanfear) stood next to him. I think Lanfear has, as a stong channeler of the age of Legends, knowledge of the Portal Stones and she may have transported them to the mirror world.

 

As I understood, the Portal Stones were used to visit mirrorworlds. Why? Maybe to predict the future or perhaps to see what happens when they make a particular desision, I don't know. Or maybe just because they were Aes Sedai. In some mirror worlds time is goes slower of faster than in Rhandland, which makes some worlds suitable to travel faster than usual to other places. I think this was just a side-effect. Remember, in the age of Legends they knew how to Travel. (Strong) Aes Sedai didn't need to use Portal Stones to travel somewhere.

 

Edit: grammar

Edited November 5, 2012 by Laica Sedai

[TNine]

Is there any non-channeler skilled enough to defeat Galad in a fight?

Lan is a better swordsman i think, and Mat i think could also beat him.

 

I can't find a thread on it, is there any in-depth discussion about Nynaeve cheating on her Aes Sedai and Accepted tests? I have a theory...

 

I don't think I have seen an "in depth" discussion but if I had to guess off the top of my head, it would have something to do with her higher than normal resistance to Compulsion and mind altering effects.

Alright, thanks. I think there is a greater significance to the event, considering it has happened twice when it didn't need to happen at all. The only explanation we get for it is a throwaway line about training in TAR, but the first time it happened Nynaeve was still inexperienced in TAR.

[Hagazussa]

Did Rhand use the portal stone the first time? I honestly doubt it. We know it is possible, but Egwene had a dream about Rhand, sleeping next to the portal stone while a woman in white (Lanfear) stood next to him. I think Lanfear has, as a stong channeler of the age of Legends, knowledge of the Portal Stones and she may have transported them to the mirror world.

 

It is possible that you are right that it was Lanfear and not Ran that used that portal stone the first time, in fact you are probably right now that I think about it. My point however still stands that the second time he have something to do with them when he tries to transport a group and spend four months in transit living through lives that could have been that is done because he have no idea what he is doing, that is not how the portal stones is supposed to work.

 

As I understood, the Portal Stones were used to visit mirrorworlds. Why? Maybe to predict the future or perhaps to see what happens when they make a particular desision, I don't know. Or maybe just because they were Aes Sedai. In some mirror worlds time is goes slower of faster than in Rhandland, which makes some worlds suitable to travel faster than usual to other places. I think this was just a side-effect. Remember, in the age of Legends they knew how to Travel. (Strong) Aes Sedai didn't need to use Portal Stones to travel somewhere.

 

I suspect they visited mirror worlds for exploration, remember scientific pursuit of knowledge was highly valued in the Age of Legends, but since there are a network of portal stones that indicates that they where indeed used for traveling, that to cut down on travel time where their main purpose, for they had just been a way to get to the mirror worlds the they would not have needed that many of them spread all over the world. Also Portal stones where not made by the Age of Legends Aes Sedai they where made in the First Age and the early channelers of that age might not have been able to travel and such would need such devices to get around quickly.

[BFG]

I agree that Lanfear took them through the first time, but I'm not sure who brought them back - Rand certainly had the Source, but it's possible Lanfear somehow helped, or guided. After that was *flicker*, but whether Rand messed up because he didn't have Lanfears guidance this time (if that happened the first time), because he was trying to transport more people (without an angreal) and thus didn't have quite enough power, or something else I don't know - Verin seemed to suggest that it was because he took them straight to the stone, but this wasn't a problem at Rhuidean.

[Whizbang]

Re: Portal Stones

 

There are two methods of travel with Portal Stones, inter-world and intra-world. The symbols at the top of the stone bring you to other worlds, the symbols at the bottom bring you to other places within the current world. Maybe there are also ways to go to other places in other worlds, but the books don't discuss this. The key is to hold the appropriate symbols in the mind, and channel into the stone in the proper way. No one except the Forsaken seem to know this "proper way". Rand does it through his unconcious memories of LTT.

 

Coming back from the mirror world was all Rand, as I see it. Lanfear did point out the symbol for the "real" world. He held the image in his mind and channeled unconciously (LTT helped out big here).

 

Going to Toman Head, he was told by Verin the correct symbol, but he couldn't concentrate on it properly. He tried to mash two symbols together and the symbols kept changing in his mind. Eventually he got where he wanted to go, but I think that at first LTT was either dormant or shunted aside by Rand at that time. As things fell apart, he let LTT take back over and fix his mistake. But, the cost was that at least a part of the travelers went to many different worlds, and it took several months.

 

Going to Rhuidean, he had much better mental control, plus he used his Ta'veren luck and Mat's luck to pick the right symbol. He also just let the weaving occur naturally, he didn't know how to do it, but he trusted to fate to bring him to where he wanted to go, and this allowed LTT to control the channeling. All he had to do was hold the right image in his mind.

 

Also, keep in mind that the Pattern has a firm control of events around Rand and company. Rand just could not be on Toman Head too early. So, either he went by foot and took a few months, encountering adventures and delays along the way, or he went by Portal Stone and lost the same time. The Pattern just would not let him get there too early. Too many things needed to happen before he got there, to allow for that fateful dual-battle between the Light and Shadow.

[yoniy0]

Also, Mat had to get there alive, but at the right time. There really wasn't any other way.

[Whizbang]

I just started my re-read of The Fires of Heaven. Fain is meeting with Elaida, and he is thinking about the Dagger in the storeage rooms in the WT. He needs the Knife, or at least a SL tainted object, to complete himself. He thinks that he couldn't risk going back into Aridhol and maybe get trapped there again, so the Knife is the only option... But, didn't he have a group of ex-White Cloaks under him, and even a trapped Fade? Why not send one of them into SL to fetch something? Even if many of them died in the attempt, it would be worth the effort if it got him an object.

[Finnssss22]

Is there any non-channeler skilled enough to defeat Galad in a fight?

Lan is a better swordsman i think, and Mat i think could also beat him.

 

Lan for sure and it would be silly to bet against Mat.

Can't really count Gwayn out either. I mean if they squared off in a best of 7, I don't think Gwayn winning 2-3 of 7 would be all that surprising.

 

 

I can't find a thread on it, is there any in-depth discussion about Nynaeve cheating on her Aes Sedai and Accepted tests? I have a theory...

 

I don't think I have seen an "in depth" discussion but if I had to guess off the top of my head, it would have something to do with her higher than normal resistance to Compulsion and mind altering effects.

Alright, thanks. I think there is a greater significance to the event, considering it has happened twice when it didn't need to happen at all. The only explanation we get for it is a throwaway line about training in TAR, but the first time it happened Nynaeve was still inexperienced in TAR.

 

Yeah, exactly. The explanation that it was her experience in TAR is just what the characters believe and may not be the correct one. Wouldn't be the first time what the characters "know" and believe has turned out to be wrong.

Nyn's higher mental resistance seems to fit better for both instances.

[yoniy0]

Even if many of them died in the attempt, it would be worth the effort if it got him an object.

I think he needed the dagger. Mordeth didn't like the idea of Mat's taking that dagger, and Moiraine said it was much more than a simple rock from SL. Not to mention, Fain himself has shown an affinity to it earlier on.

[mb]

Before meeting with the Borderlanders, Rand shows the Illusion weave to Naeff.

Which way did Rand show it?

-in the air

-on himself

-on Naeff

-on some other present character; which one?

-some other way; exactly what?

 

And shortly after, did Rand remove the weave?

[TNine]

 

I don't think I have seen an "in depth" discussion but if I had to guess off the top of my head, it would have something to do with her higher than normal resistance to Compulsion and mind altering effects.

Alright, thanks. I think there is a greater significance to the event, considering it has happened twice when it didn't need to happen at all. The only explanation we get for it is a throwaway line about training in TAR, but the first time it happened Nynaeve was still inexperienced in TAR.

 

Yeah, exactly. The explanation that it was her experience in TAR is just what the characters believe and may not be the correct one. Wouldn't be the first time what the characters "know" and believe has turned out to be wrong.

Nyn's higher mental resistance seems to fit better for both instances.

But it seems a somewhat random and insignificant explanation to an unnecessary and somewhat suspect event. To go along with the comparison to TAR, we know Nynaeve isn't as willful as Egwene--even before either were trained, Egwene was easily able to affect events around her while Nynaeve was much more slow-learning, and generally much weaker. Something doesn't fit. I think i'll post a thread on it sometime soon, just to see what everyone else thinks.

 

Before meeting with the Borderlanders, Rand shows the Illusion weave to Naeff.

Which way did Rand show it?

-in the air

-on himself

-on Naeff

-on some other present character; which one?

-some other way; exactly what?

 

And shortly after, did Rand remove the weave?

Making a weave and actually doing the action is not the same thing. Weaves require the correct amount of the OP to work. We see Egwene make the gateway weaves even when too weak to create a gateway, to show Meideni how it works. It could easily be the same thing with Rand. Or Rand simply made the weave on himself. It doesn't seem to be an important detail.

 

And yes, Rand removed the weave. Or had it removed, seeing as he was within range of the Guardian and couldn't weave the OP anyway.

[Whizbang]

Even if many of them died in the attempt, it would be worth the effort if it got him an object.

I think he needed the dagger. Mordeth didn't like the idea of Mat's taking that dagger, and Moiraine said it was much more than a simple rock from SL. Not to mention, Fain himself has shown an affinity to it earlier on.

 

The Fires of Heaven: Prologue

The Tower held things worth a little patience in its strongrooms. The Horn of Valere was there, the fabled Horn made to call dead heroes back from the grave for the Last Battle. Even most of the Aes Sedai were ignorant of that, but he knew how to sniff out things. The dagger was there. He felt its pull where he stood. He could have pointed to it. It was his, a part of him, stolen and mired away here by these Aes Sedai. Having the dagger would make up for so much lost; he was not sure how, but he was sure he would. For Aridhol lost. Too dangerous to return to Aridhol, perccance to be trapped there again. He shivered. So long trapped. Not again.

 

This, to me, means something else from SL would complete him in the same way. Not a pebble or rock, of course, but anything from that treasure the three boys saw would suffice, I would think. He is afraid to re-enter SL, for fear of being trapped. But why not send in a few minions on the hope to recover an artifact he can use? He can stay well outside, and just wait for them to return.

[EmperorAllspice]

What was the deal with the ending of The Great Hunt. How did Rand and Balzy end up in the sky? and how did their fight end up controlling the armies down below?

[Whizbang]

That seems to be a property of the Horn of Valere. It mixes Tel'Aran'Rihod with the real world in some mysterious way.

[yoniy0]

This, to me, means something else from SL would complete him in the same way.

Really? To me it says the exact opposite, that the dagger is important in and of itself. It's important enough to make up for the loss of the entire city; it's not any single object from Aridhol that's equated to having the dagger back, it's regaining it fully. Then, there's this:

"No. That is..." Panting, Mordeth shook his head as if he could not decide. "Take what you want. Except... Except..."

What else could Mordeth be talking about, except the dagger?

 

What was the deal with the ending of The Great Hunt. How did Rand and Balzy end up in the sky? and how did their fight end up controlling the armies down below?

An effect of the Pattern, is all RJ said of the matter. Me, I believe this is yet another early-bookism.

[Finnssss22]

I don't think I have seen an "in depth" discussion but if I had to guess off the top of my head, it would have something to do with her higher than normal resistance to Compulsion and mind altering effects.

Alright, thanks. I think there is a greater significance to the event, considering it has happened twice when it didn't need to happen at all. The only explanation we get for it is a throwaway line about training in TAR, but the first time it happened Nynaeve was still inexperienced in TAR.

 

Yeah, exactly. The explanation that it was her experience in TAR is just what the characters believe and may not be the correct one. Wouldn't be the first time what the characters "know" and believe has turned out to be wrong.

Nyn's higher mental resistance seems to fit better for both instances.

But it seems a somewhat random and insignificant explanation to an unnecessary and somewhat suspect event. To go along with the comparison to TAR, we know Nynaeve isn't as willful as Egwene--even before either were trained, Egwene was easily able to affect events around her while Nynaeve was much more slow-learning, and generally much weaker. Something doesn't fit. I think i'll post a thread on it sometime soon, just to see what everyone else thinks.

 

It's not about being "willful" or who was able to grasp the workings of TAR quicker.

It's about a person having a natural resistance to Compulsion and Compulsion like effects.

This resistance is a very rare talent and the only women that this has been confirmed in is Morgase and Nynaeve

 

When I looked for quotes, this one came up in which Terez was thinking the exact same thing and asked BS about it, which is a better answer than I could of given you.

Terez

 

Is the weave used in the shawl testing a form of Compulsion?

Brandon Sanderson

 

They’re definitely cousins. Whether they would consider it a form of Compulsion...to them, Compulsion is complete evil, so they will not view it at all like that...

TEREZ

 

Yeah, I thought that might be part of what Verin used to cobble together her own Compulsion weave.

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

Yeah. They’re definitely cousins.

FOOTNOTE—TEREZ

 

This question came out of a thread I started on Theoryland, which in turn came out of a response Brandon made to someone on Twitter. I thought that Nynaeve remembering she could channel at all in her Accepted test might be related to her ability to resist Compulsion as she did with Moghedien (which, as we know from Rahvin, is a fairly rare ability possessed by only the most strong-willed, such as Morgase). Egwene's Accepted test is a whole different ballgame because of her Dreaming talent and the interference with the stone ring ter'angreal that Verin had just given her.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Finnssss

[EmperorAllspice]

finished book 5.

 

Did the attempted team up between Rahvin, Graendal, Lanfear and Sammael serve any real purpose in the end?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hmmmm, hard to answer the question. Yes and no.

[EmperorAllspice]

It kinda feels like they set something up and just went "nah, screw that plot point"

[Barid Bel Medar]

Is this your first read? Because it is hard to answer and I don't want to assume it is and look stupid.

[EmperorAllspice]

It is, yes.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Ahh ok.

 

Well, my answer stands.

 

Yes and no.

 

No, because it probably doesn't serve the purpose you would think.(having first read it and nothing more)

 

But it does serve a purpose, it wasn't a random throwaway plot.

[mb]

What was the deal with the ending of The Great Hunt. How did Rand and Balzy end up in the sky? and how did their fight end up controlling the armies down below?

Recall from somewhere (do not remember where) that Rand and Ishamael in the sky was due to the Pattern. The other things might also have been.

 

That seems to be a property of the Horn of Valere. It mixes Tel'Aran'Rihod with the real world in some mysterious way.

From where did you get that?

[Maleshub]

finished book 5.

 

Did the attempted team up between Rahvin, Graendal, Lanfear and Sammael serve any real purpose in the end?

 

It served Lanfear's purpose. She manipulated the other three to help her snare LTT and push him towards her. But that plot fell apart in the battle of the docks in Cairhien. And Cyndane is paying the price for that piece of ambition.

 

More importantly, the plot restrained the two male Foresaken posing the greatest danger to Rand: Rahvin and Sammael. If both, with Graendal, moved against Rand in force, he would have been in real danger. The plot gave Rand enough time to secure Cairhien and then move against Rahvin (in rage and for vengeance) and Sammael (in a well-organized plan).