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Luckers

Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

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So I just had a thought. This could be stupid but I just thought of it while reading FoH.

 

Could Lews Therin trying to 'take over' Rand be the syncing of the two that occured at the end of TGS? Maybe Rand wasnt ready or didn't understand it yet so he fought it off over and over again until his moment of clarity on Dragonmount

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I think the "Syncing", as you call it, could not happen until Rand was in the right state of mind. If LTT had take over before Rand was open and ready for it, then it would be LTT with Rand in his head, not Rand with all the knowledge and experience of LTT. It has been hinted at that if LTT takes over, then the battle is lost and the shadow wins. Rand must accept and absorb LTT, while still retaining his sense of self. Yes, they are the same, but until Rand is ready and willing to accept that he IS LTT, not just LTT reborn, then there will still be division and strife and he cannot be the Light's Champion. If LTT just takes over, Rand will be the voice in the back of the head, and will he be able to take back control? Will he be able to merge successfully with LTT? Maybe, but probably not before the LB.

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@Theodril That's a very plausible theory (I believe it is correct myself) but we don't know for certain. It might be revealed in AMOL - we'll see.

 

Thanks, Herid. I didn't mean to compose the question with the implication that it is a theory. But Taim's name came to mind after I read the scene. Are there other theories on who that patron might be?

Demandred and Taim are the main suspects. Check this FAQ for a nice discussion on the subject.

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Why did Verin write the information about the waygate in camelyn in a letter to Mat, why not Elaine? Couldn't she also have mentioned it to Egewene?

 

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Why did Verin write the information about the waygate in camelyn in a letter to Mat, why not Elaine? Couldn't she also have mentioned it to Egewene?

Oh, that was the topic of many a discussion. It's no simple answer, though, so why don't you try this thread?

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I'm finishing COT in my reread before AMOL comes out and I'm somewhat confused about some of the motivations of the Tower spies in Egwene's camp. It's pretty clear post the revelations of the Ajah heads conspiracy in tGS that Faiselle, Magla, Saroiya, Takima and Varilin were the Sitters sent by the Ajah heads to infiltrate the Salidar camp and bring them back to the Tower. All five were sitters before the split, pushed for election of too young sitters in Salidar (as Magla pushed for Salita), voted against the declaration of war and later pushed for negotiations with the Tower. They probably were the ones who betrayed Egwene's plans to turn the harbor chain into cuendillar too.

 

What I don't understand is why they all so vehemently opposed the plans to ally with the Black Tower. None of them knew that the subject would be brought up beforehand when Moria suggested it. Yet they opposed it violently and in unison from the very start. They (and Delana) were the only ones to do so. I don't understand their motivation in this. Presumably they saw it as an impediment to their mission but I don't see why.

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That could have nothing to do with their mission, just general Aes Sedai opposition to the Black Tower. And since they really followed Elaida, they would know her stance on it.

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I think it's way too coincidental not to have something to do with their mission. They and Delana (who was Black) were the only ones to oppose the plans to ally with the BT and Delana changed her vote on the second try. You may be right about Elaida however. She would never go along with this and they likely knew it. But this still looks like a side issue to me. The Reds in the Tower came up with the same plan regarding the BT and they did not consult Elaida at all.

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The person Slayer meets in Winter's Heart; I would doubt Taim.

-The person would likely have been a Forsaken; Taim I take is not any of them.

-The person likely knows Illusion; the books do not tell whether or not Taim knew/knows it.

-The person found out where Rand went; the Kisman's POV does not tell whether or not Taim knew beforehand. Only that Taim gave them 1 last chance.

 

Moridin seems to be the most likely candidate.

those reasons and several more::

-the person was likely male

-the person gave order to kill Rand (and also Min)

-the person was hesitant about Slayer trying again

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I think it's way too coincidental not to have something to do with their mission.

I think the point was just them being 'old guard' AS, resisting change.

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They are not really the old guard. The Ajah heads explained in tGS that they chose the most youthful Sitters to send to Salidar. Takima, for example has only been a Sitter for nine years. And Romanda and Lelaine are an even "older guard". yet they saw reason.

The five Tower spies were the only ones who were completely bent out of shape on the issue. Veracohr may have the right of it that they simply feared complications because Elaida would never go along with the plans regarding the BT but it does not seem very satisfactory to me.

In any case, this is not terribly important now. That particular plot line was terminated as quickly as possible by BS and I doubt we'll ever hear of it again. same goes for the question of who betrayed Egwene although I'm reasonably sure I'm right about it.

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They were charged with preserving the existing order (or rather, reestablishing it), and had the least freedom of initiative than anyone else in the Salidar Hall save Delana and Sheriam (and possibly Moria, we don't know). Therefore they fall back to old-guard AS-thinking, were the others evolve more freely with circumstances.

 

Makes sense to me, at least.

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I suppose being Elaida supporters puts them in the "Old Guard". I mean, the Rebels are doing random unprecedented things just by rebelling, they are more malleable to change. The Elaida-moles are (by their choice of sticking with Elaida) traditionalists.

 

So I can see where both of your conclusions are correct. It is because they are Elaida's henchmen that they disagree, and that fact makes them "traditionalists" who would be against change anyway, not just by Elaida's order, but by their own nature.

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One thing that I have been wondering about. I have been re reading the books lately and I came to place where Logain, Siuan, Min and Leane. Now Logain has a somewhat negative view of Aes Sedai for understandable reasons, but I was wondering why he is not more aggressive against Siuan? The Amyrlin is always the one who leads the circle who performs a gentling so while the Red Ajah hunted him down Siuan would have done the deed, you would have thought that would get her to the top of his hate list, and yet while he agues with her over leadership of their little group he is not openly aggressive or resentful of her, now I get that he needs her to get his revenge, but I should believe he would have a problem with the woman who actually performed the gentling on him as well. Could it be that Logain was brought to the Tower while Siuan and her delegation was in the Borderlands or on their way to or from and that someone else lead the circle that gentled him, that would explain his lack of emotional reaction to Siuan.

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They were charged with preserving the existing order (or rather, reestablishing it), and had the least freedom of initiative than anyone else in the Salidar Hall save Delana and Sheriam (and possibly Moria, we don't know). Therefore they fall back to old-guard AS-thinking, were the others evolve more freely with circumstances.

 

Makes sense to me, at least.

well, maybe. I still find their opposition a bit too rabid. They persist even after Rand's emissaries arrive in KOD and tell them that saidin is clean. BTW, after posting this I found that luckers has a theory addressing the matter. He agrees with Veracohr's view that they were afraid that an alliance with the BT would jeopardize the Tower unification under Elaida.

I suppose being Elaida supporters puts them in the "Old Guard". I mean, the Rebels are doing random unprecedented things just by rebelling, they are more malleable to change. The Elaida-moles are (by their choice of sticking with Elaida) traditionalists.

 

So I can see where both of your conclusions are correct. It is because they are Elaida's henchmen that they disagree, and that fact makes them "traditionalists" who would be against change anyway, not just by Elaida's order, but by their own nature.

A small quibble. They are not really Elaida's henchmen. They were sent by their respective Ajah heads, not by Elaida. I'm not even sure if they know about each other's missions. Beonin was the one sent by Elaida and it's clear that she is operating independently of those five Sitters.

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The person Slayer meets in Winter's Heart; I would doubt Taim.

-The person would likely have been a Forsaken; Taim I take is not any of them.

-The person likely knows Illusion; the books do not tell whether or not Taim knew/knows it.

-The person found out where Rand went; the Kisman's POV does not tell whether or not Taim knew beforehand. Only that Taim gave them 1 last chance.

 

Moridin seems to be the most likely candidate.

those reasons and several more::

-the person was likely male

-the person gave order to kill Rand (and also Min)

-the person was hesitant about Slayer trying again

 

The "Patron" exits from the meeting through a hole that opened into "a snowy forest glade." Moridin is most likely anchored in the Blight in his black palace. Taim's Black Tower has snow at the moment. And if Demandred has a location in Seanchan, Andor, Cairhien, Murandy, and northward, then that applies. There is a small chance that Moridin is going to a place with snow; but my hunch is that the "snowy forest glade" is meant to be a clue as to the identity of the patron.

Edited by Theodril

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We know when men grasp saidin, they experienced heightened senses; does the same old true for saidar users?

Yes, the same is true for women. Off the top of my head, Moiraine uses that fact in New Spring (the novel, although the Legends short story contain a reference to that fact as well). I don't know if you've read it already (although I wholeheartedly recommend that you do), so I won't specify how and when.

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I do recommend the Legends series, basically you have anthology books just brim full of short stories from the very best fantasy authors out there. New Spring begun as a short story in Legends until Jordan decided to make it into a complete book and expand on the story. Now the reason why you should read both the Legends short story and the book is that there is a few differences between them so you get a better picture if you read both.

 

Legends also have contributions from:

 

Stephen King, with a piece from his Dark Tower series.

Terry Goodkind, with a piece from Sword of Truth.

Orson Scott Card, his novella is set in The Tales of Alvin Maker.

Robert Silverberg, with a piece from his Majipoor series.

Ursula K. Le Guin, with a short story from Earthsea

Raymond E. Feist, has a short story set in his Riftwar Saga.

Terry Pratchett, with off course something from Discworld.

George R. R. Martin, with a piece from A Song of Ice and Fire.

Tad Williams, with a piece from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn.

Anne McCaffrey with a short story from her Dragonriders of Pern series.

 

Now be aware that if you are getting this book that some later books split the book into two parts, in which case you want volume two to get the New Spring short story. This is a Voyager release. Thee was also a Legends volume 2 originally which is a completely different book filled with even more short stories from other authors. Now oh but it get more complicated. Tor Books released Legends again this time in three volumes so now there is a volume 1, volume 2 and volume 3 of the first Legends book, in which case you want volume 3 to get New Spring. Confused yet? So to get all the short stories in one you want the original Voyager release from 1998 which is a hardback, or the first paperback from 1999, though be aware that their split books where also published in 1999 so get the one from June not November, and just to be sure check the contents to be sue the book you are getting have the short stories you are after.

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How exactly do Portal Stones work? The first one found transports Rand to an alternate universe of sorts. The second time one is used, it transports everyone to a destination stone, but takes 4 months, meanwhile each person being transported sees multiple versions of a possible future. The third one used teleports everyone instantly to the Waste.

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I can't find a thread on it, is there any in-depth discussion about Nynaeve cheating on her Aes Sedai and Accepted tests? I have a theory...

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Did he know who she was? I don't recall that.

 

I can not say for sure but it seams that he do, Logain do not know who Siuan is when he first meet the group but if he did not know who she was after a while, why follow her, why assume some random woman can give him revenge against the Red Ajah?

 

How exactly do Portal Stones work? The first one found transports Rand to an alternate universe of sorts. The second time one is used, it transports everyone to a destination stone, but takes 4 months, meanwhile each person being transported sees multiple versions of a possible future. The third one used teleports everyone instantly to the Waste.

 

The way I understand it the way portal stones works is that it takes a traveler though a mirror world which then allow for space to be crosser quicker, like for example the Ways where made by male Aes Sedai who had studied the mirror worlds found through portal stones. The way traveling with portal stones is supposed to work I assume is either that the traveler or travelers are instantly transported to where they want to go by being sent through the mirror word. When Rand first use a portal stone and ends up in a mirror world that is a mistake done because he channels near it and have no idea what he is doing. The second time when he tries to transport a group through that is a mistake as well because he have no idea what he is doing. Someone who know how to use portal stones will transport him or herself and their group safely and instantly, at least how I understand it.

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I can't find a thread on it, is there any in-depth discussion about Nynaeve cheating on her Aes Sedai and Accepted tests? I have a theory...

 

I don't think I have seen an "in depth" discussion but if I had to guess off the top of my head, it would have something to do with her higher than normal resistance to Compulsion and mind altering effects.

Edited by Finnssss

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