Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[W_A]

What exactly was happening in the scene in tFoH after Elayne and Nynaeve escape from Ronde Macura, and then she sends out two letters and another guy sends out a third? Where were those letters going?

[Terez]

That scene I count as just speculation on the reason.

 

We know the reason.

[Terez]

What exactly was happening in the scene in tFoH after Elayne and Nynaeve escape from Ronde Macura, and then she sends out two letters and another guy sends out a third? Where were those letters going?

 

First copy went to the Tower. Second copy went to the Seanchan. Third copy went to Darkfriends somewhere. Later on we see Macura with the Seanchan.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Terez

[Clouded]

Did we ever find out if one oath rod will remove the oaths from another oath rod?

[Maleshub]

Did we ever find out if one oath rod will remove the oaths from another oath rod?

 

Not for sure. There are only three known oath rods "binder" in Randland: one in the White Tower, one with Therava, and one with Moridin.

 

We can speculate that the BA would use Moridin's binder to remove the 3 oaths. But I'm ignorant to the fact if there have been any discussions on the issue.

[MountaineerWV]

The discussion about Harid Fel and Min got me thinking. There is a bit of an inconsistency there. Min doesn't know the Old Tongue. Harid probably did, being a smart old genius, but there is no reason for a poor mining town girl to know the old tongue.

 

The reason I say this is because many of the books that Harid and Min are reading would have to be either translated into common tongue from the Old Tongue or still in the old tongue. The books are old, many date from the AoL or from early after the Breaking. We don't know exactly when the common tongue became standard, but it was sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the end of Hawkwing's Empire, therefore many books would be in the Old Tongue.

 

When studying a subject, reading a translation is seldom good enough. In today's world if you want to understand many subtle nuances in philosophy, you study it in German. Ideas are lost in translation or sometimes the translator's bias affects how the translation is recorded.

 

Unless Min has had a chance to pick up the Old Tongue, I don't see how she will ever find the correct answer.

[Suttree]

The discussion about Harid Fel and Min got me thinking. There is a bit of an inconsistency there. Min doesn't know the Old Tongue. Harid probably did, being a smart old genius, but there is no reason for a poor mining town girl to know the old tongue.

 

The reason I say this is because many of the books that Harid and Min are reading would have to be either translated into common tongue from the Old Tongue or still in the old tongue. The books are old, many date from the AoL or from early after the Breaking. We don't know exactly when the common tongue became standard, but it was sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the end of Hawkwing's Empire, therefore many books would be in the Old Tongue.

 

When studying a subject, reading a translation is seldom good enough. In today's world if you want to understand many subtle nuances in philosophy, you study it in German. Ideas are lost in translation or sometimes the translator's bias affects how the translation is recorded.

 

Unless Min has had a chance to pick up the Old Tongue, I don't see how she will ever find the correct answer.

 

That is merely one of many issues when I think about it. I mean I'm sure Baerlon City College had great classes on the nature of the DOs seal but come on! ;)

[Maleshub]

The discussion about Harid Fel and Min got me thinking. There is a bit of an inconsistency there. Min doesn't know the Old Tongue. Harid probably did, being a smart old genius, but there is no reason for a poor mining town girl to know the old tongue.

 

The reason I say this is because many of the books that Harid and Min are reading would have to be either translated into common tongue from the Old Tongue or still in the old tongue. The books are old, many date from the AoL or from early after the Breaking. We don't know exactly when the common tongue became standard, but it was sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the end of Hawkwing's Empire, therefore many books would be in the Old Tongue.

 

When studying a subject, reading a translation is seldom good enough. In today's world if you want to understand many subtle nuances in philosophy, you study it in German. Ideas are lost in translation or sometimes the translator's bias affects how the translation is recorded.

 

Unless Min has had a chance to pick up the Old Tongue, I don't see how she will ever find the correct answer.

 

That is merely one of many issues when I think about it. I mean I'm sure Baerlon City College had great classes on the nature of the DOs seal but come on! ;)

 

Yeah; and no one is complaining that a Baerlon graduate who worked in an inn and a stable (I think) suddenly turned into a philosopher after a few visits to the Cairhien academy; let alone the philosopher who is tasked with solving the riddle to the greatest intellectual test since the Breaking.

[Barid Bel Medar]

That is merely one of many issues when I think about it. I mean I'm sure Baerlon City College had great classes on the nature of the DOs seal but come on! ;)

 

Ha, yeah. It is not the only thing that is inconsistent about Min = Elan x 2. The only thing I can give her is that she DID start a while back in LoC, so it wasn't just random in tGS/ToM, just Brandon being really blunt about it.

 

But yeah, why the Brown's never started digging through the 13th when they knew the Last Battle was comming irked me. Not even Verin did much research on the LB/Sealing. (well, that we have seen anyway, unless it is in her letter to Rand)

 

How on earth does it fall to Min to study this stuff?

Edited August 9, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[Maleshub]

How on earth does it fall to Min to study this stuff?

 

Her visions' purpose has been achieved; and she needed a purpose other than being in love with Rand.

[Barid Bel Medar]

How on earth does it fall to Min to study this stuff?

 

Her visions' purpose has been achieved; and she needed a purpose other than being in love with Rand.

 

I know why she did it, but not why she had to do it. There should have been people who were working on it already.

 

Of course, that is in theory. The first logical step, in my mind, when you hear there is going to be the Last Battle, you immediately try and find out how to win. I suppose that everyone was a bit preoccupied with the...events that have been happening. But still I would have thought SOMEONE would have been doing some research, but we only have Herid Fel and Min so far.

[MountaineerWV]

How on earth does it fall to Min to study this stuff?

 

Her visions' purpose has been achieved; and she needed a purpose other than being in love with Rand.

 

I know why she did it, but not why she had to do it. There should have been people who were working on it already.

 

Of course, that is in theory. The first logical step, in my mind, when you hear there is going to be the Last Battle, you immediately try and find out how to win. I suppose that everyone was a bit preoccupied with the...events that have been happening. But still I would have thought SOMEONE would have been doing some research, but we only have Herid Fel and Min so far.

 

It should have fallen to the White Tower, specifically the Brown and White Ajahs, to be freakin on point with knowledge of the Last Battle, the Bore, and the Seals. Just like everything other mission the White Tower is responsible for, it failed. They are more concerned with stopping the Dragon and petty power plays than the triumph of Light over the Dark One.

[Vardar]

The discussion about Harid Fel and Min got me thinking. There is a bit of an inconsistency there. Min doesn't know the Old Tongue. Harid probably did, being a smart old genius, but there is no reason for a poor mining town girl to know the old tongue.

 

The reason I say this is because many of the books that Harid and Min are reading would have to be either translated into common tongue from the Old Tongue or still in the old tongue. The books are old, many date from the AoL or from early after the Breaking. We don't know exactly when the common tongue became standard, but it was sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the end of Hawkwing's Empire, therefore many books would be in the Old Tongue.

 

When studying a subject, reading a translation is seldom good enough. In today's world if you want to understand many subtle nuances in philosophy, you study it in German. Ideas are lost in translation or sometimes the translator's bias affects how the translation is recorded.

 

Unless Min has had a chance to pick up the Old Tongue, I don't see how she will ever find the correct answer.

 

Wasn;'t there a quote stating the vulgar or common tongue was always around, just not often used?

[Suttree]

How on earth does it fall to Min to study this stuff?

 

Her visions' purpose has been achieved; and she needed a purpose other than being in love with Rand.

 

I know why she did it, but not why she had to do it. There should have been people who were working on it already.

 

Of course, that is in theory. The first logical step, in my mind, when you hear there is going to be the Last Battle, you immediately try and find out how to win. I suppose that everyone was a bit preoccupied with the...events that have been happening. But still I would have thought SOMEONE would have been doing some research, but we only have Herid Fel and Min so far.

 

It should have fallen to the White Tower, specifically the Brown and White Ajahs, to be freakin on point with knowledge of the Last Battle, the Bore, and the Seals. Just like everything other mission the White Tower is responsible for, it failed. They are more concerned with stopping the Dragon and petty power plays than the triumph of Light over the Dark One.

 

The only person with knowledge of the seals and the DOs prison at this point is Rand. The problem was surely worked on at some point but as with most things in this fallen world the knowledge was lost over time. Rand refused to share anything with Egwene and did not request aid from the greatest repository of knowledge in the world. Instead purposley angers Egwene and is leaning on Min alone to figure out how to seal the bore. Wouldn't it have been far better to get Min into the WT library and set a number of Browns to working on the problem with her? Once they all saw what books Min had surely they would have known where to start on the problem.

 

Finally in regards to power plays saying they are concerned with that over facing the shadow is false. The WT's end goal has always been to face the shadow and that is made clear time and again through povs in the book. MOir talks about it, Eggy hammers us over the head with the responsibility she feels for the WT to be strong for TG. You can argue with how they have gone about it, but you can't question what their end goal is.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Suttree

[MountaineerWV]

The only person with knowledge of the seals and the DOs prison at this point is Rand. The problem was surely worked on at some point but as with most things in this fallen world the knowledge was lost over time. Rand refused to share anything with Egwene and did not request aid from the greatest repository of knowledge in the world. Instead purposley angers Egwene and is leaning on Min alone to figure out how to seal the bore. Wouldn't it have been far better to get Min into the WT library and set a number of Browns to working on the problem with her? Once they all saw what books Min had surely they would have known where to start on the problem.

 

So your stance is that the WT and AS knew nothing about the Seals, the Bore, and the Last Battle until just recently? That is why they have never made a study of the Last Battle and the concepts surrounding the Last Battle, something that has been in prophecy and has been Foretold for over three thousand years?

 

Finally in regards to power plays saying they are concerned with that over facing the shadow is false. The WT's end goal has always been to face the shadow and that is made clear time and again through povs in the book. MOir talks about it, Eggy hammers us over the head with the responsibility she feels for the WT to be strong for TG. You can argue with how they have gone about it, but you can't question what their end goal is.

 

I'm not arguing about their end goal at all. I didn't even imply that battling the Shadow and the DO was not their goal. I am simply pointing out that they failed.

[Suttree]

So your stance is that the WT and AS knew nothing about the Seals, the Bore, and the Last Battle until just recently? That is why they have never made a study of the Last Battle and the concepts surrounding the Last Battle, something that has been in prophecy and has been Foretold for over three thousand years?

 

My stance is exactly what I said. The knowledge to properly deal with the situation has been lost over time. Certainly people have been working on the prophecies, we see proof of that in the text. The ability to come up with a solution for the bore however was impossible based on what they know at the time of the story. The shadow and other forces have been systematically eroding knowledge for thousands of years and that is one of the main themes RJ is presenting. The only way Rand knows anyting is because of his memories, trip to see the Fins, and Herid Fel reaching a conclusion after discussing it with him. You are saying they failed but they haven't been given the chance. Rand refused to share any information with them and antagonized the Amrylin on purpose instead of putting the teams together.

 

I'm not arguing about their end goal at all. I didn't even imply that battling the Shadow and the DO was not their goal.

 

My fault this.."They are more concerned with stopping the Dragon and petty power plays than the triumph of Light over the Dark One" seemed to suggest otherwise.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Suttree

[Queens blessing]

Ya Tovere's looking glasses that could see the moon (projected) was what I got. Can you clarify why you think he died Queen's?

Yeah I meant fel just got the names mixed up. But thanks everybody for your answers, I'm doing a major re read before AMoL comes out and trying to get everything figured out.

[mb]

That scene I count as just speculation on the reason.

We know the reason.

ok.

 

Did we ever find out if one oath rod will remove the oaths from another oath rod?

The Black Ajah hunt (by the Sitters) seem to indicate that at least White Tower's Oath Rod could remove any oath.

 

There are only three known oath rods "binder" in Randland: one in the White Tower, one with Therava, and one with Moridin.

Actually, Moridin has 3; so there is 5 known.

[Terez]

Did we ever find out if one oath rod will remove the oaths from another oath rod?

The Black Ajah hunt (by the Sitters) seem to indicate that at least White Tower's Oath Rod could remove any oath.

 

Black Ajah oaths are sworn on the same rod, so that doesn't indicate anything at all. See Galina's confusion about the different markings. They use the Tower rod.

[Sharaman]

The Old Tongue seems to be pretty widely known.

Clerks, minstrels, AS, adventurers of all descriptions, even farmers from the Black Hills or the Two Rivers.

Think about it -When Dashiva is undercover as a random farmer from the Black Hills, he (or rather Taim on his behalf) cheerfully says he's a scholar of the OT, Ditto Mat who inadevertently reveals his unconscious knowledge several times. Nobody is very surprised or finds this particularly suspicious.

Ditto Brigitte who is pretending to be a rough tough mercenary.

Ditto Noal Charin who's a homeless vagabond.

MIn could have been reasonably fluent in OT even if she's brought up in Baerlon.

There are lots of inconsistency regarding languages in the WOT (drift over 3K years would have been much more going by what we know ) but RJ fudged most of those by saying that the Post-Breaking society stayed completely literate and printing technology remained universal.

[driedraspberry]

Do the Seanchan prophecies determine successful invasion of Randland in its entirety?

[mb]

Do the Seanchan prophecies determine successful invasion of Randland in its entirety?

The current books revealed less of the Essanik Cycle than of the Karaethon Cycle. The revealed portion does not explicitly tell one way or the other on that.

The Seanchan people seem to think that the Dragon Reborn would serve them.

[Pinzarn]

Do the Seanchan prophecies determine successful invasion of Randland in its entirety?

The current books revealed less of the Essanik Cycle than of the Karaethon Cycle. The revealed portion does not explicitly tell one way or the other on that.

The Seanchan people seem to think that the Dragon Reborn would serve them.

 

The Empress (may she live forever), the Crystal Throne, and the higher ups in the Seanchan society seem to think the Dragon Reborn will server them, but then again, that is probably the corrupted version of the prophecies. What the common Seanchan folk believe, I don't know we ahve really been given that information.

[thisguy]

Now, that Rand's all Christy and all, I wouldn't be surprised if he bends knee to the Crystal Throne just to make peace and gather the flock for the last battle. We don't know what the Seanchan will be made to give in return, do we?

 

It makes sense as he has done all he can throughout most of the series not to be anyone's puppet. He's grown beyond that and doesn't give a crap as long as he can save the world.

[driedraspberry]

I see, thanks. The just seemed so assured about The Return I thought there was something I missed.

 

The only issue with Rand kneeling would be that it might undermine his authority as commander in chief at TG. But then I don't know, perhaps if he wont take part in the actual battle(s) he wont need to be in charge necessarily. I wonder what the implications would be for the Randland armies. Would they be subjected to the Seanchan and Tuon, or would they simply remain distinct charges, under different commands?

Edited August 14, 2012 by driedraspberry