Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Maleshub]

If the Talisman of Growing is only a "medium" for the continuous connection of Saidin to the Ways, then I can see how the taint could seep into the ways. But if it is just a spark for a one-time weave, then the corruption of the ways needs another explanation.

even if it is a one time deal, after the breaking they grew many many more Ways so it could be possible that the building of Ways is what did it

 

But if it is a one-time affair, then evey Saidin weave pre-cleansing is corrupt or will corrupt over time. Is this how this works in the books?

[Durinax]

If the Talisman of Growing is only a "medium" for the continuous connection of Saidin to the Ways, then I can see how the taint could seep into the ways. But if it is just a spark for a one-time weave, then the corruption of the ways needs another explanation.

even if it is a one time deal, after the breaking they grew many many more Ways so it could be possible that the building of Ways is what did it

 

But if it is a one-time affair, then evey Saidin weave pre-cleansing is corrupt or will corrupt over time. Is this how this works in the books?

every saidin weave is a little corrupt I believe, and the cumulative effect of growing so many Ways is that the corruption due to the taint became the black wind

[Knivy]

Id like support on that claim. That means that every terangreal is corrupt that even had a male assist in its making that uses the power, since it is constantly in touch with the OP, and thus always drawing the taint...

[Finnssss22]

Id like support on that claim. That means that every terangreal is corrupt that even had a male assist in its making that uses the power, since it is constantly in touch with the OP, and thus always drawing the taint...

 

No, theoretically it would just be any that were made AFTER the DO's counter stroke when LTT and the Hundred companions patched the Bore. In other words, during the Breaking.

Chances are there were very few if any made during the Breaking, at least not with male participation.

[Luckers]

Didn't Liandrin say in TGH that she could protect herself in the Ways? Was she just lying or did she think she could, or do Shadow-trained channelers actually have a method to protect themselves? Verin didn't seem very happy about it, also in TGH and neither did Moiraine in TEotW?

she lied.

 

We don't actually know this. In KoD we see a hundred thousand Trollocs pass unmolested through the Ways with no effort to stagger their travel as was done in the Two Rivers campeign. That should have drawn the black wind in seconds, yet it apparently didn't.

 

Mind you, I do think Liandrin was lying--or rather,bragging without a basis. I think that Machin Shin began to change after it first touched Fain (we see signs of this, the way it assumes Fain's imprint on Rand [we know Fain didn't command the Black Wind to guard against Rand as Fain wanted Rand to follow him], the ability to push the boundaries of the Ways, which it never had before and so forth). Given we see these signs relatively early after the interaction, and then havn't seen the Wind for some time, its not impossible that the evolution continued off screen and that this allows for what occurred in KoD.

 

Nevertheless, we don't know this, its just my theory, and the KoD incident could be evidence that Liandrin was not lying and that the Shadow genuinely has ways to defend itself against the Wind.

[Knivy]

Id like support on that claim. That means that every terangreal is corrupt that even had a male assist in its making that uses the power, since it is constantly in touch with the OP, and thus always drawing the taint...

 

No, theoretically it would just be any that were made AFTER the DO's counter stroke when LTT and the Hundred companions patched the Bore. In other words, during the Breaking.

Chances are there were very few if any made during the Breaking, at least not with male participation.

So there is source of untouched saiden that they have been drawing on since the tainting? Im referring to Ter that actually use the power, not ones that just are.

 

EDIT: I see that i worded my original post too rigidly, sorry. Not every ter'angreal.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Knivy

[Finnssss22]

Id like support on that claim. That means that every terangreal is corrupt that even had a male assist in its making that uses the power, since it is constantly in touch with the OP, and thus always drawing the taint...

 

No, theoretically it would just be any that were made AFTER the DO's counter stroke when LTT and the Hundred companions patched the Bore. In other words, during the Breaking.

Chances are there were very few if any made during the Breaking, at least not with male participation.

So there is source of untouched saiden that they have been drawing on since the tainting? Im referring to Ter that actually use the power, not ones that just are.

 

EDIT: I see that i worded my original post too rigidly, sorry. Not every ter'angreal.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think there is an answer to that.

The Bowl of the Winds for example, seemed to be using Saidin and that could be the reason for the "wild" zone there and not just because the Bowl was used beyond its intended abilities.

[Luckers]

Id like support on that claim. That means that every terangreal is corrupt that even had a male assist in its making that uses the power, since it is constantly in touch with the OP, and thus always drawing the taint...

 

No, theoretically it would just be any that were made AFTER the DO's counter stroke when LTT and the Hundred companions patched the Bore. In other words, during the Breaking.

Chances are there were very few if any made during the Breaking, at least not with male participation.

So there is source of untouched saiden that they have been drawing on since the tainting? Im referring to Ter that actually use the power, not ones that just are.

 

EDIT: I see that i worded my original post too rigidly, sorry. Not every ter'angreal.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think there is an answer to that.

The Bowl of the Winds for example, seemed to be using Saidin and that could be the reason for the "wild" zone there and not just because the Bowl was used beyond its intended abilities.

 

RJ stated that it was just because the Windfinders knowledge and skills pushed the bowl beyond its intended abilities. No mention of the influence of saidin at all.

[Finnssss22]

RJ stated that it was just because the Windfinders knowledge and skills pushed the bowl beyond its intended abilities. No mention of the influence of saidin at all.

 

He was actually a little cryptic about if I remember right, but I think he also said something like it should be easy to figure out. Which prolly rules out a more complicated explanation like Saidin use at the time ;)

 

 

 

Edit: This is the interview you mean right?

 

Rothaar

The general consensus seems to be that the Bowl of Winds caused the weirdness in the Power around Ebou Dar. Do we know enough at this time to determine the true cause or do we have to RAFO more info?

 

Robert Jordan

I think you know enough by this point. It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. I always hated it when my math professors said that.

Footnote

Moridin noted in Chapter 2 of The Path of Daggers that the Bowl was originally a ter'angreal designed to control the weather in small areas, and that the Sea Folk were likely capable of stretching its abilities far beyond its intended capacity (since they could do unaided what should have required the Bowl, by Age of Legends standards).

 

Edit #2: Never mind, I went manual in the interview database and found the right interview here...

 

The Path of Daggers book tour 21 November 1998, VA - John Novak reporting

The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would still have been screwed up. His implicit assumption was that the Bowl screwed things up....He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which radiated from that place.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Finnssss

[Barid Bel Medar]

INTERVIEW: Nov 21st, 1998

TPOD Signing Report - John Novak (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would still have been screwed up.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

His implicit assumption was that the Bowl screwed things up. I expected this to be a sheer RAFO. I was surprised. He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which radiated from that place. (I should have asked if a spoke went out over Tear.)

[Terez]

It even has a 'bowl of the winds' tag. You should get used to the new one, Fins. It makes life much easier once you do.

[Finnssss22]

It even has a 'bowl of the winds' tag. You should get used to the new one, Fins. It makes life much easier once you do.

 

I usually do use the new one actually but I only put in Bowl of the winds, no quotes, so that's why it didn't pop.

Good job on that btw.

 

 

Edit: Actually...it doesn't pop for "Bowl of the Winds" in quotes either. Not till I actually clicked on the Bowl of the Winds tag. Just letting you know.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Finnssss

[Terez]

Yeah, we're aware of that bug. It has to do with excluded search words which I have been trying to get the bossman to eliminate completely. One good tip: search bowl and winds instead. That usually works. No quotes. Or use the tags.

 

PS—I just realized that the word 'winds' wasn't in that quote at all. (That's pretty common, hence the tags.) I think I will ask bossman to search tags in the text search, if that's possible. Anyway, I switched around the footnotes on those to try to make it more helpful.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Terez

[mb]

Asked something similar a number of pages back.

 

From where did Egwene get the altered eavesdropping ward; and when?

 

And who else knows the weave?

[Luckers]

Asked something similar a number of pages back.

 

From where did Egwene get the altered eavesdropping ward; and when?

 

And who else knows the weave?

 

If you look back, people answered this. She adapted the weave on the spot, and anyone who knows the eavesdropping ward could do it if they thought to.

[Corpj123]

After Rand had his realization/epiphany on Dragonmount, did the sickness and nauseousness that comes with seizing saidin go away?

Or does he still get sick whenever he tries to do it? I'm not sure.

[fikkie77]

We haven't read about the sickness anymore, but haven't read that Rand noticed it was gone either.

But I believe the sickness and most of the nausea went away after the Cleansing. You may correct me if I'm wrong. The only nausea that seemed to have stayed is due to his connection to Moridin.

[TristanWebb]

That is all he ever had. The taint was vile, but it wasn't what made him sick and it still happened after the cleansing. I think that there is one instance of him being dizzy in ToM, but he seems to be able to control it more now.

[Maleshub]

The taint's progression stopped after the cleansing; but whatever stage or impact it had pre-cleansing remained. Naeff and Androl are clear examples. But it applies to all other Ashaman and to Rand.

 

But with Rand it was the taint as well as LTT. Remember how LTT took over when the Shadowspawn army attacked him in Tear! Rand's physical health was greatly affected by the vileness of the taint. And that includes the dizziness spells, retching spells, etc. And with all of that, I haven't started on the impact of accessing the TP!

[TristanWebb]

I thought it was pretty well established that the dizzyness and nausea were from the link to Moridin.

[Maleshub]

I thought it was pretty well established that the dizzyness and nausea were from the link to Moridin.

 

If it is, then I am ignorant of the fact. Where can I read up on it?

[Terez]

Knife of Dreams, Chapter 18.

[Maleshub]

Knife of Dreams, Chapter 18.

 

Thanks

[Ludo]

If a darkfriend had blown the Horn for the Shadow, would the Heroes still need to be lead by the Dragon Banner to be able fight, or would there be another banner for the Shadow? Or would there be no need of a banner?

Edited May 29, 2012 by Ludo

[Terez]

See here.