Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[yoniy0]

He did most likely earn the name before the War of Power. Several Forsaken had them, and he was consider the greatest man of his time before they turned to the Shadow, so...

[kght22]

He got the third name before, since Lanfear was jealous of it before he even got with his wife. Hmm, didn't know it meant dragon. So was it known he was the Dragon before the battle with the Shadow then? Did they know what the Dragon was? (Since the battle between the Dragon the the DO was eternal, blah blah blah)

i would expect they would have known that the name meant the dragon

 

tel as in tel aran rhiod :: the unseen world

 

aman as in siswai'aman :: spears of the dragon, literaly dragon's spears (the possesive)

 

siswai :: spear

 

by elimination

 

tel aman :: the dragon

 

telamon is likely a corruption.

 

verin doesnt just say "unseen world" when she introduces that translation, she says "the unseen world" just as she says "the world of dreams" for the other possible translation. it is made very clear that the old tongue from the age of legends is extremely corrupted by the time moi enters emonds field many times through the series. tel'aman very likely means literaly the dragon, and as with siswai'aman it likely has stronger connotations, like perhaps "the only dragon" or something with that type of meaning at least. it is also made clear in the series that direct translations from the old toung generaly dont work. they seem nonsensical in a world that no longer uses the language in it's culture. it would be interesting to see what "the children of the dragon" looks like in the old toung.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Testy al'Carr

[Sharaman]

Wide range of accomplishments if we take the FS as an example,

Bel'al = lawyer, Sammael = athlete, Ishamael = philosopher. Graendal = medicine, etc.

Also Asmo= music, Aginor = biosciences, Semi= medicine, Baltha= anthropologist

Lanfear didn't get a third name.

[Finnssss22]

Wide range of accomplishments if we take the FS as an example,

Bel'al = lawyer, Sammael = athlete, Ishamael = philosopher. Graendal = medicine, etc.

Also Asmo= music, Aginor = biosciences, Semi= medicine, Baltha= anthropologist

Lanfear didn't get a third name.

 

 

Aginor = Ishar Morrad Chuain

Balthamel = Eval Ramman

Asmodean = Joar Addam Nessosin

Be'lal = Duram Laddel Cham

Demandred = Barid Bel Medar

Graendal = Kamarile Maradim Nindar

Ishamael = Elan Morin Tedronai

Lanfear = Mierin Eronaile

Mesaana = Saine Tarasind

Moghedien = Lilen Moiral

Rahvin = Ared Mosinel

Sammael = Tel Janin Aellinsar

Semhirhage = Nemene Damendar Boann

 

 

So Lanfear wasn't the only one to not have a third name, 4 others did not either.

[Maleshub]

Regarding Joline, Teslyn, and Edesina not Traveling to Tar Valon, I expected them to learn Traveling from Verin when she transported Mat and the Band to Caemlyn. Why didn't they learn Traveling? Did Verin invert the weaves? Has this been discussed earlier and where?

[Finnssss22]

Regarding Joline, Teslyn, and Edesina not Traveling to Tar Valon, I expected them to learn Traveling from Verin when she transported Mat and the Band to Caemlyn. Why didn't they learn Traveling? Did Verin invert the weaves? Has this been discussed earlier and where?

 

Scroll up a bit ;)

 

 

We were just talking about it before the 3 names thing.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Finnssss

[Maleshub]

Thanks for the reference. And the answer is "We don't know."

 

But how could the 3 AS miss the weaves. They don't have to see the weaving. They could figure it out from seeing the weaves when they stepped through it. Otherwise, why did Aviendha "unweave" her gateway in Ebou Dar? And why did Elayne do the same to deny the Seanchan Traveling.

 

I'm missing something here!

[Finnssss22]

Thanks for the reference. And the answer is "We don't know."

 

But how could the 3 AS miss the weaves. They don't have to see the weaving. They could figure it out from seeing the weaves when they stepped through it. Otherwise, why did Aviendha "unweave" her gateway in Ebou Dar? And why did Elayne do the same to deny the Seanchan Traveling.

 

I'm missing something here!

 

Not only does Avi have the talent to read Ter'angreal but she also has the talent to read weave residues and recreate them, sometimes days after, that's why Elayne did what she did. They couldn't take the chance that one of the damane chasing them also had such a talent. Picking the weave apart leaves no residue.

Without that talent, you need to see the actual weaving to learn it.

Give Elayne's PoV in tPoD chapter 2 a quick scan.

 

It's reasonable to assume that none of Joline, Teslyn or Edesina have that talent and that Verin wove the gateway outside of their viewing.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Finnssss

[Maleshub]

Thanks for the reference. And the answer is "We don't know."

 

But how could the 3 AS miss the weaves. They don't have to see the weaving. They could figure it out from seeing the weaves when they stepped through it. Otherwise, why did Aviendha "unweave" her gateway in Ebou Dar? And why did Elayne do the same to deny the Seanchan Traveling.

 

I'm missing something here!

 

Not only does Avi have the talent to read Ter'angreal but she also has the talent to read weave residues and recreate them, sometimes days after, that's why Elayne did what she did. They couldn't take the chance that one of the damane chasing them also had such a talent. Picking the weave apart leaves no residue.

Without that talent, you need to see the actual weaving to learn it.

Give Elayne's PoV in tPoD chapter 2 a quick scan.

 

It's reasonable to assume that none of Joline, Teslyn or Edesina have that talent and that Verin wove the gateway outside of their viewing.

 

Thanks for the clarification. And that now means that Verin refused to teach the 3 AS how to Travel. Seeing that lost talent, they would have begged Verin to teach them; but she refused! Interesting.

[yoniy0]

Consider that the Chosen have strict rules with regard to who may or may not learn that weave. The fact that quite a few AS learned it from an independent source doesn't necessarily free Verin from her obligations.

[Majsju]

Thanks for the reference. And the answer is "We don't know."

 

But how could the 3 AS miss the weaves. They don't have to see the weaving. They could figure it out from seeing the weaves when they stepped through it. Otherwise, why did Aviendha "unweave" her gateway in Ebou Dar? And why did Elayne do the same to deny the Seanchan Traveling.

 

I'm missing something here!

 

Not only does Avi have the talent to read Ter'angreal but she also has the talent to read weave residues and recreate them, sometimes days after, that's why Elayne did what she did. They couldn't take the chance that one of the damane chasing them also had such a talent. Picking the weave apart leaves no residue.

Without that talent, you need to see the actual weaving to learn it.

Give Elayne's PoV in tPoD chapter 2 a quick scan.

 

It's reasonable to assume that none of Joline, Teslyn or Edesina have that talent and that Verin wove the gateway outside of their viewing.

 

Thanks for the clarification. And that now means that Verin refused to teach the 3 AS how to Travel. Seeing that lost talent, they would have begged Verin to teach them; but she refused! Interesting.

 

When that happened, the split in the WT was still going on. And while Verin never declared herself supporting one side or the other, her hanging out with Rand definitly put her as Not on Elaidas side. Which Joline and Teslyn were. That would have given her a legitimate reason to refuse teaching them. And her being Black might have forced her to do everything in her power to avoid spreading the knowledge of such a weave.

[Barid Bel Medar]

When Mesaana teaches Aliviarin travelling she says not to show anyone else. Same may be applied to Verin, not to show any Light side people any weaves like travelling.

[Sharaman]

Or Verin simply doesn't want to show the Weave to three women whose allegiance is uncertain. By the time she meets Mat, she's into her endgame and she may not want three AS being able to move out quick from Mat's camp and carry news of her t anyone. She also does know inversion is possible at least - she was surprised when she led the Circle that fought Graendal and given her intellectual curiousity she would probably have worked at figuring it out.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Sharaman

[mandersen]

Has the "coveted third name" thing ever been explained?

 

You mean from the Age of Legends?

If so, the third name was earned through accomplishments.

 

Yes from the age of Legends. Nothing further explaining exactly what it was then? Just like a middle name?

earning a third name in the age of legends reflected great deeds done for others. i dont think there is all that much about it but it seems to me that the names were bestowed not chosen by the one who earned them. for lews therin the name he earned was telamon which literaly means "the dragon". i like to think he earned it in battle against the shadow, but it might have been before the war as far as i know. but lews therin's title as far as i can tell was lord of the morning, although he once, apparently not at the time of the strike at sg, wore the ring of tamyrlin, and commanded the nine rods of dominion, and lots of people on this site think of the rods of dominion as governors in the regions of the world, and as such it would mean that at one point lews was leader of the world. it would be hard to say king because there is so little information.

 

EDIT: oh and of course lews therin also earned a fourth name: kinslayer

 

He got the third name before, since Lanfear was jealous of it before he even got with his wife. Hmm, didn't know it meant dragon. So was it known he was the Dragon before the battle with the Shadow then? Did they know what the Dragon was? (Since the battle between the Dragon the the DO was eternal, blah blah blah)

 

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

[Suttree]

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

 

Correct, LTT was the Dragon and it was a political "nickname" I believe. No connection to the CoL.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Suttree

[Vardar]

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

 

Correct, LTT was the Dragon and it was a political "nickname" I believe. No connection to the CoL.

 

But wasn't the Dragon Reborn always there at the end of an Age? They lost that knowledge?

 

Anyway, another question: Has it ever been explained why channelers with the spark die without a teacher? Like what does the teacher teach them that they don't learn on their own? I know the illness comes closer and closer to the moment of channeling until they happen at the same time, but what does a teacher do to stop that? Just something else that's always bothered me.

[Durinax]

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

 

Correct, LTT was the Dragon and it was a political "nickname" I believe. No connection to the CoL.

 

But wasn't the Dragon Reborn always there at the end of an Age? They lost that knowledge?

 

Anyway, another question: Has it ever been explained why channelers with the spark die without a teacher? Like what does the teacher teach them that they don't learn on their own? I know the illness comes closer and closer to the moment of channeling until they happen at the same time, but what does a teacher do to stop that? Just something else that's always bothered me.

I think its more the fact they teach control over it

[Vardar]

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

 

Correct, LTT was the Dragon and it was a political "nickname" I believe. No connection to the CoL.

 

But wasn't the Dragon Reborn always there at the end of an Age? They lost that knowledge?

 

Anyway, another question: Has it ever been explained why channelers with the spark die without a teacher? Like what does the teacher teach them that they don't learn on their own? I know the illness comes closer and closer to the moment of channeling until they happen at the same time, but what does a teacher do to stop that? Just something else that's always bothered me.

I think its more the fact they teach control over it

 

Yea but what are they teaching? I can see learning weaves and such. But it seems to me they just encourage you to channel a little of the power so you become used to it. Not sure how that kills.

[FossMaNo1]

But wasn't the Dragon Reborn always there at the end of an Age? They lost that knowledge?

 

There was always a Champion of the Light born, yes, at the end of an Age to fight the Dark One, however the term "Dragon" is a recent (or reused, considering we're talking about cyclical time here) appellation.

 

As for losing the knowledge of a Champion taht fights at the end of an Age, I don't see why it couldn't happen. Really, the only reason LTT is remembered is because he is directly tied to the Breaking and all the suffering that came after (the loss of paradise). I don't see why a world-hinging battle couldn't happen quietly in a way that only those directly involved knew what was happening.

[Vardar]

But wasn't the Dragon Reborn always there at the end of an Age? They lost that knowledge?

 

There was always a Champion of the Light born, yes, at the end of an Age to fight the Dark One, however the term "Dragon" is a recent (or reused, considering we're talking about cyclical time here) appellation.

 

As for losing the knowledge of a Champion taht fights at the end of an Age, I don't see why it couldn't happen. Really, the only reason LTT is remembered is because he is directly tied to the Breaking and all the suffering that came after (the loss of paradise). I don't see why a world-hinging battle couldn't happen quietly in a way that only those directly involved knew what was happening.

 

I'd like to think we've progressed further as a society than that. Where in 1000 years, we'll know fact from fiction. I may be wrong however.

So if there have only been 3 ages, how has the "Dragon" went over to the dark side a few times.

[Finnssss22]

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

 

Correct, LTT was the Dragon and it was a political "nickname" I believe. No connection to the CoL.

 

But wasn't the Dragon Reborn always there at the end of an Age? They lost that knowledge?

 

Anyway, another question: Has it ever been explained why channelers with the spark die without a teacher? Like what does the teacher teach them that they don't learn on their own? I know the illness comes closer and closer to the moment of channeling until they happen at the same time, but what does a teacher do to stop that? Just something else that's always bothered me.

I think its more the fact they teach control over it

 

Yea but what are they teaching? I can see learning weaves and such. But it seems to me they just encourage you to channel a little of the power so you become used to it. Not sure how that kills.

 

 

How to consciously, properly and safely touch the Source, instead of doing it unconsciously which runs the risk of channeling too much too soon resulting in the sickness that kills 1 in 4. Not to mention the possibility of simply killing yourself and/or others in the process of that channeling.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Finnssss

[kght22]

i think calling him "the dragon" is more of a thing for the particular cycle in the books. i doubt that it would allways be "the dragon", simply the soul that we know as "the dragon". not to mention that particular soul isn't important in every age. the aol and the third age are just a small part of the cycle of ages. the age lace as it were. so no, the name doesn't have much to do with the soul, rand is the dragon reborn because he can be identified as being lews therin reborn. they know that lews therin exists because he was one of the most important individuals, if not the most important individuals, of the previous age.

[Vardar]

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

 

Correct, LTT was the Dragon and it was a political "nickname" I believe. No connection to the CoL.

 

But wasn't the Dragon Reborn always there at the end of an Age? They lost that knowledge?

 

Anyway, another question: Has it ever been explained why channelers with the spark die without a teacher? Like what does the teacher teach them that they don't learn on their own? I know the illness comes closer and closer to the moment of channeling until they happen at the same time, but what does a teacher do to stop that? Just something else that's always bothered me.

I think its more the fact they teach control over it

 

Yea but what are they teaching? I can see learning weaves and such. But it seems to me they just encourage you to channel a little of the power so you become used to it. Not sure how that kills.

 

 

How to consciously, properly and safely touch the Source, instead of doing it unconsciously which runs the risk of channeling too much too soon resulting in the sickness that kills 1 in 4. Not to mention the possibility of simply killing yourself and/or others in the process of that channeling.

 

But too much too soon doesn't cause a sickness, it just burns you out of kills you.

[Finnssss22]

But too much too soon doesn't cause a sickness, it just burns you out of kills you.

 

No, that's far too much too soon that kills you and/or others.

The sickness is caused by channeling a lot of the power for the first time when you have never channeled at all before.

Think of it as being out of shape and then climbing 100 flights of stairs in one go instead of just climbing a fraction of that to start and increasing the numbers gradually each day.

If you're out of shape and do the 100 right off the bat, I guarantee you that you won't be doing anything the next day or for a few days after.

 

 

The proper training allows you to build your "muscles" slowly without shocking your system.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Finnssss

[Guest Rubick]

Can anyone remember where or what Mat Cauthon explained with his 'shoe metaphor in Towers of Midnight.

I own the book so even a pagenumber would be great!

 

Sorry that my first post is in this section and not in the 'Introduce yourself' but I really need help with digging through the book.

Thanks!