Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[LemonPastie]

I don't know if it's possible to ward somebody else's dreams.

 

Moiranne offered to ward the boy's dreams pretty much through the first half of EotW

[Spacecowboy]

Or they could have use Mog's own ability to ward her dreams with the a'dam.

[Sharaman]

I don't know if it's possible to ward somebody else's dreams.

 

Moiranne offered to ward the boy's dreams pretty much through the first half of EotW

 

She didn't actually do it and we don't know that she actually could.

EotW depicts Moiraine displaying a lot of powers that are contradicted in later books - she blasts out a Waygate, unweaves, etc.

RJ worked out his "rules of OP" more carefully after EoTW and TGH. I'd be wary of accepting an EoTW reference without confirmation from later books / RJ quotes.

The supergirls using Moggy's own power to ward her off is an interesting suggestion - but it's never mentioned at all.

Not even a reference, from Moggy's PoV when has her repeated dream of rescue and abuse.

[Spacecowboy]

I don't know if it's possible to ward somebody else's dreams.

 

Moiranne offered to ward the boy's dreams pretty much through the first half of EotW

 

She didn't actually do it and we don't know that she actually could.

EotW depicts Moiraine displaying a lot of powers that are contradicted in later books - she blasts out a Waygate, unweaves, etc.

RJ worked out his "rules of OP" more carefully after EoTW and TGH. I'd be wary of accepting an EoTW reference without confirmation from later books / RJ quotes.

The supergirls using Moggy's own power to ward her off is an interesting suggestion - but it's never mentioned at all.

Not even a reference, from Moggy's PoV when has her repeated dream of rescue and abuse.

 

I know there is no evidence to say that the girls warded Mog's dreams. I only offered it as a suggestion as to why she doesn't enter TAR or talk to other forsaken in her dreams. This situation is just one of those plot holes that doesn't really have an answer.

[UGAShadow]

Its the a'dam IMO.

 

 

The reason the dream a'dam didn't knock her out of Tar was because she's already there. It HELD her there. She couldn't wake herself up. Remember, she tried to change the a'dam but she never woke up. If she could have she would have. I'd think it would work the opposite way too.

[PhoenixUK]

How do the people of the 3rd or even 2nd age know about the Pattern, the Wheel, that people reincarnate and that time repeats itself over and over and that there is a Creator? Before the war of power, it sounds like they didnt even know the dark one existed. Once he was freed they knew, but how do they know there is a creator, and about the Light? What is the source of their theology?

[Luckers]

There is no proof that the a'dam prevents access to TAR but wards can. In book 5, I believe, Egwene is trying to look in on Rands dream's trying to find a way around his wards and she speculates that would be able to touch TAR even accidentally though such strong wards.

 

Do you have a quote? Here is every reference Egwene makes to Rand's dreams that I could find, and none contain this speculation.

 

Rand's dreams had been a challenge, of course, one she could not fail to face. Now that she could flit from dream to dream, how could she not try where the Wise Ones failed? Only, attempting to enter his dreams had been like running headlong into an invisible stone wall. She knew that his dreams lay on the other side, and she was sure she could find a way through, but there had been nothing to work on, nothing to pry at. A wall of noting. It was a problem she meant to worry at until she solved it. Once she put her mind on something, she could be as persistent as a badger.

 

[tFoH; 7, A Departure]

 

In one way those sparkles were just as alike as fireflies-that was what had given her so much trouble in the beginning-but in another, somehow, they now seemed as individual as faces. Rand's dreams, and Moiraine's, appeared muted, dimmed by the wards they had woven.

 

[tFoH; 25, Dreams of Galad]

 

And that slightly muted glow over there was Rand, his dreams guarded behind a ward woven of saidin. She almost stopped—it piqued her that something she could not see or feel could shut her out like a stone wall—but instead let it pass. Another night of futility held no attraction.

 

This place skewed distance the way Tel'aran'rhiod did time. Rand was sleeping in Caemlyn, unless he

had jaunted to Tear, a thing she very much wanted to know how he did, but only a little way from his dream, Egwene picked out another light she recognized. Bair, in Cairhien, hundreds of leagues from Rand; wherever Rand was, she knew for a fact it was not Cairhien this night. How did he do it?

 

[LoC; Dreams and Nightmares]

 

That meant waiting for Nynaeve and Elayne to leave Tel'aran'rhiod—she knew their dreams by sight, of course; in her sleep, the thought with a silent giggle—and so far, a dozen attempts to locate Salidar that way had produced as much result as trying to get through the ward around Rand's dreams. Distance and location here really bore no relation to anything in the waking world; Amys said there was no distance or location here.

 

[LoC; Dreams and Nightmares]

 

Rand’s dreams were always shielded, and she feared he might know when she tried to peek in. The shield would keep her from seeing anything, anyway.

 

[CoT; 20, In The Night]

 

 

I don't know if it's possible to ward somebody else's dreams.

 

Moiranne offered to ward the boy's dreams pretty much through the first half of EotW

 

She didn't actually. She said that there were things she could do to help with problems in the dream... sometimes.

 

"A night like that can give a man bad dreams, Rand. If you have nightmares, you must tell me of it. I can

help with bad dreams, sometimes."

 

[tEotW; 8, Out of the Woods]

 

However, it is immediately apparent this is not a warding--one would not be able to only ward someone 'sometimes'. This reality continues and Moiraine makes clear that whatever method she might have employed to assist with their dreams had to occur immediately upon the incursion upon their dreams, and that even then it wasn't assured that it would work...

 

"More with myself than you. But I did ask you to tell me if you had strange dreams. In the beginning, I asked." Though her voice remained level, a flash of anger crossed her eyes, and was gone in an instant. "Had I known after the first such, I might have been able to . . . . There has not been a Dreamwalker in Tar Valon for nearly a thousand years, but I could have tried. Now it is too late. Each time the Dark One touches you, he makes the next touching easier for him. Perhaps my presence can still shield you somewhat, but even then . . . . Remember the stories of the Forsaken binding men to them? Strong men, men who had fought the Dark One from the start. Those stories are true, and none of the Forsaken had a tenth of the strength of their Master.

 

[tEotW; 42, Remembrance of Dream]

 

Whatever this method is that she feels she may have employed, it is, again clearly not a Dream Warding

[yoniy0]

I concur, the very fact that she didn't ward their dreams back then is proof positive that she couldn't.

[Feral]

I have a question about Juilin in LoC. He's described several times as having changed and at one point someone (Mat I think?) mentions that he doesn't smile anymore. This made me mentally scream Demandred! as I always do when I read about someone who doesn't smile much. But somehow I think that's incredibly unlikely so my question is: What's going on with him? I thought maybe it's cos of being away from Amathera(sp), but she was still Panarch I believe when he last saw her so surely he didn't get to know her?

 

Also in LoC, Min has a vision concerning one of the Wise One's (Colinda?), but she decides it's impossible and puts it down to the heat making her imagine things. Do we discover what this was all about?

[David Selig]

Amathera spent few days working as a servant in the inn where Juilin and the rest were staying after the end of TSR, she was hiding from the street mobs. This is when he fell in love with her and probably the reason he was feeling down after that when he had to leave her.

[Finnssss22]

I concur, the very fact that she didn't ward their dreams back then is proof positive that she couldn't.

 

I agree as well.

Another case of something Moiriane believes is true or fact when it actually isn't or is only partially correct.

Many things are presented to us as fact by certain characters that we should take a harder look at.

Lanfear claims that dreams are hers and that she could break through Rand's warding if she wanted but could she really?

Lanfear also claims to be a master of TAR but Moggy later disputes this saying something about Lanfear only thinking she is and that Moggy is actually better in TAR. How much of what some of these people claim is boasting and ego.

As it turns out the vaunted Chosen aren't as knowing as we are led to believe. Healing severing, the Warder bond, un-weaving and the superior weather control of the Windfinders just to name a few things the Chosen had no clue about.

And if their knowledge is this incomplete, where does this leave us with Moiriane.

[Feral]

Amathera spent few days working as a servant in the inn where Juilin and the rest were staying after the end of TSR, she was hiding from the street mobs. This is when he fell in love with her and probably the reason he was feeling down after that when he had to leave her.

 

Ah right, thanks, memory was obviously being a bit faulty.

[Luckers]

Also in LoC, Min has a vision concerning one of the Wise One's (Colinda?), but she decides it's impossible and puts it down to the heat making her imagine things. Do we discover what this was all about?

 

We don't know. I've always imagined it was something like, she saw Colinda was going to live seven hundred years, or have 50 children--something inconsequential to the plot.

[IAmTheDragonReborn]

So I've been having an argument with my brother about Rand touching the True Source. He does in fact touch in ToM when he breaks out of the adam that Semi puts on him? By embracing through Shai'tan (oooo I said it!) From the WoT wiki it states that: "The True Power is also only available to Channelers whom the Dark One allows to wield it."

 

So does that mean the dark one left a link on Rand just in case he decided to fall to the shadow?

 

In which case wouldn't he be able to find Rand wherever he went?

Much like Rand's connection with Moridin.

 

While he argues that what Rand touches is the creator's equivalent of the True Source and is remarkably similar. Thus accounting for Semi why the Great Lord had betrayed her.

[Finnssss22]

So I've been having an argument with my brother about Rand touching the True Source. He does in fact touch in ToM when he breaks out of the adam that Semi puts on him? By embracing through Shai'tan (oooo I said it!) From the WoT wiki it states that: "The True Power is also only available to Channelers whom the Dark One allows to wield it."

 

So does that mean the dark one left a link on Rand just in case he decided to fall to the shadow?

 

In which case wouldn't he be able to find Rand wherever he went?

Much like Rand's connection with Moridin.

 

While he argues that what Rand touches is the creator's equivalent of the True Source and is remarkably similar. Thus accounting for Semi why the Great Lord had betrayed her.

 

 

Most believe that Rand drew on the true source through his link with Moridin and not directly.

[Aquarius]

So I've been having an argument with my brother about Rand touching the True Source. He does in fact touch in ToM when he breaks out of the adam that Semi puts on him? By embracing through Shai'tan (oooo I said it!) From the WoT wiki it states that: "The True Power is also only available to Channelers whom the Dark One allows to wield it."

 

So does that mean the dark one left a link on Rand just in case he decided to fall to the shadow?

 

In which case wouldn't he be able to find Rand wherever he went?

Much like Rand's connection with Moridin.

 

While he argues that what Rand touches is the creator's equivalent of the True Source and is remarkably similar. Thus accounting for Semi why the Great Lord had betrayed her.

 

 

Most believe that Rand drew on the true source through his link with Moridin and not directly.

There is an argument to be made. I don't see why it HAS to be through Moridin. I would rather believe that the DO doesn't need to "touch" Rand in any way to allow him to tap the True Power. Just like the one power. THe ability is just there. So the DO allowed Rand to have this ability.

We'll RAFO I guess.

[yoniy0]

Most

Truly? Perhaps we should have a poll here sometime.

[Terez]

In my experience, it's most. Furthermore, most believe the Dark One probably planned it that way.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I am sorry if it has already been discussed elsewhere. Also it is hardly a simple question, but maybe somebody will come up with a simple answer

 

Is the DO the source of all evil in WOT, or is evil somehow independent from him and he is simply the most powerful evil being?Im most tales about good v. evil conflict that I know the heroes are always cautioned that they cannot defeat evil using its own methods, that they would only make it stronger. To quote Ged from U. Le Guin's masterpiece "A wizard of Earthsea": "It is light that defeats the dark".

 

How come Fain can succesfully fight DO and his creatures with hate and madness? Or maybe he really doesn't?

 

Related to that: how exactly did Mashadar come into being? Even in WOT, human hate and parania alone are unable to create an evil mass-murdering fog

I have read some very ambigous quotes from Brandon that Mardeth brought something to Aridhol. What was that? Was it related to DO and how? If not, from where came its power? Maybe somebody has some good ideas, because I'm clueless...

Edited March 29, 2011 by PiotrekS

[yoniy0]

In my experience, it's most.

Not according to my poll. Go ahead and cast your vote; I went with both the link being used and the DO's having planned it that way.

[Thorgan]

Are there any theories about Ishamaels plan for the last battle?

Clearly he plannes something since the first book but I can't really come up with anything other then the fact that he needs Rand to actually fight the last battle for it to work.

 

I'm sure you guys figured something out, certainly that chapter where Moridin plays this board game has a lot of forshadowing.

 

edit: Just read the one on theoryland, kind of meh though.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Thorgan

[seanzor]

I am sorry if it has already been discussed elsewhere. Also it is hardly a simple question, but maybe somebody will come up with a simple answer

 

Is the DO the source of all evil in WOT, or is evil somehow independent from him and he is simply the most powerful evil being?Im most tales about good v. evil conflict that I know the heroes are always cautioned that they cannot defeat evil using its own methods, that they would only make it stronger. To quote Ged from U. Le Guin's masterpiece "A wizard of Earthsea": "It is light that defeats the dark".

 

How come Fain can succesfully fight DO and his creatures with hate and madness? Or maybe he really doesn't?

 

Related to that: how exactly did Mashadar come into being? Even in WOT, human hate and parania alone are unable to create an evil mass-murdering fog

I have read some very ambigous quotes from Brandon that Mardeth brought something to Aridhol. What was that? Was it related to DO and how? If not, from where came its power? Maybe somebody has some good ideas, because I'm clueless...

I'm just re-reading the Eye of The World now and I'm not sure on most of this, but I do know it says mashadar is a different kind of evil separate from the dark one. Fain uses this different kind of evil against the dark one's evil.

[Finnssss22]

Most

Truly? Perhaps we should have a poll here sometime.

 

Yep, your poll even agrees 28-17 atm. All I said was that Rand drew the TP through his link with Mordy, not directly from the DO.

 

I didn't get into whether the DO planned it that way but I have to lean with Terez here. Shaidar Haran himself freeing Semi to set that whole sequence in motion is just too much of a coincidence imo.

[Terez]

In my experience, it's most.

Not according to my poll. Go ahead and cast your vote; I went with both the link being used and the DO's having planned it that way.

I just looked at the poll, and it's as I said - most (29 out of 46) believe he drew it through the link with Moridin, and most of those people (21 of 29) believe the Dark One planned for that. It helps to get a decent sample size first.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Terez

[Callern]

Just wondering about the nature of the Forsaken/Moridin.

 

My first question is, how many "living" days does the forsaken actually have? Has there been any estimation on that?

 

And second, as Elan Morin Tedronai joined the DO out of logic, does this mean that his particular soul is bound to the shadow? (as he's been fighting the Dragon since, well, since ever..)