Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[dflinn]

If I remember correctly choosing Dashiva was definitely at random. Taim was trying to pick for Rand and Rand pointed at random and it was Dashiva who he pointed at. It also seems as though Dashiva was suprised and Taim disliked the choice.

yeah, what Sharaman said.

[Sab]

My theory is it was "Dashiva" (the forsaken playing him) who tempted Taim to go over to the DO.  I mean wouldn't be hard to play on Taim thinking he is better then Rand.  Since I don't remmember one hint in the book of a new forsaken I can't believe he has been raised that high.

 

Dashiva was picked at random by Rand, didn't Rand just turn and point randomly?  There is no reason for Dem and the Gar to both be in the BT.  dem is too busy bouncing about creating chaos, I think he was the one who tricked the prophet.  Always the slim chance the BT is the army Den has raised but thats not Dems style, he wants to be a general.

[WolfTwins]

Dashiva was picked at random by Rand, didn't Rand just turn and point randomly?

  Odd, when i first readed that, i had the impression that Rand insisted upon Dashiva, i thougt that he wanted to study a case of aproaching insanity but...

...Again Rand pointed without looking. "Him." This time, he seemed surprised to find he was pointing directly at a man...

..."He will do," Rand said, but he did not sound sure himsself...

...Taim's opposition seemed to sweep away Rand's uncertainty...

  I was wrong!

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Why would Taim oppose it?

[lordofsoup]

I think the he wanted Kinsman, or Roachaid because he knew they were loyal to him. 

 

But after Dashiva/Osangar was chosen by Rand, he would have lost his power over the most powerful and volital place in all of Randland.  It would not be unreasonable if one of the other forsaken (Demandred) scooped it up.  At that point Dashiva was given the task of watching Rand, and there was a slight switch in plans.

[Nethran Thaimal]

...Again Rand pointed without looking. "Him." This time, he seemed surprised to find he was pointing directly at a man...

..."He will do," Rand said, but he did not sound sure himsself...

...Taim's opposition seemed to sweep away Rand's uncertainty...

 

Sounds like a classic case of t'averen luck... though that's usually Mat's thing, Rand is said to have above average luck as well.  For t'averen you can never say "I doubt this, because what are the chances".  The chances are generally pretty high.

[kivo]

My theory is it was "Dashiva" (the forsaken playing him) who tempted Taim to go over to the DO.  I mean wouldn't be hard to play on Taim thinking he is better then Rand.  Since I don't remmember one hint in the book of a new forsaken I can't believe he has been raised that high.

 

Dashiva was picked at random by Rand, didn't Rand just turn and point randomly?  There is no reason for Dem and the Gar to both be in the BT.  dem is too busy bouncing about creating chaos, I think he was the one who tricked the prophet.  Always the slim chance the BT is the army Den has raised but thats not Dems style, he wants to be a general.

 

Liandrin and her circle of 13 Black Ajah are as likely a suspect as any.

[Sharaman]

My theory is it was "Dashiva" (the forsaken playing him) who tempted Taim to go over to the DO.  I mean wouldn't be hard to play on Taim thinking he is better then Rand.  Since I don't remmember one hint in the book of a new forsaken I can't believe he has been raised that high.

 

Dashiva was picked at random by Rand, didn't Rand just turn and point randomly?  There is no reason for Dem and the Gar to both be in the BT.  dem is too busy bouncing about creating chaos, I think he was the one who tricked the prophet.  Always the slim chance the BT is the army Den has raised but thats not Dems style, he wants to be a general.

 

Liandrin and her circle of 13 Black Ajah are as likely a suspect as any.

 

As likely a suspect for what?

Turning Taim, corrupting the BT or ?

Unlikely that they turned Taim, since they were floating around in completely different parts and rarely together.

Taim was being chased South-East from Saldaea (before LoC -during the FoH phase).

Liandrin's lot were already split - Some in Tanchico in TSR (Way South-West) and then split up on Moggy's orders - some went to Caemlyn, others went to Ebou Dar (CoS), Tear (TDR).

By the time the BT was put together, they were all over the place.

Sure the BA may have freed him - we don't have any details about his escape.

But turning him (assuming it was necessary)? You never had a 13x13 involving Liandrin's lot at any time when Taim was available.

 

[witsd]

I'm still assuming that Taim is now Moridin. The red / black thing draws me to this conclusion, and so far, my only reason for not thinking this is that Ishy was clearly decent with a sword (end of tGH), and the supposed borderlander Taim disparages them.

 

But then, if Rand had already beaten him with a sword, he might be a little dismissive of said practice, no?

 

I think Taim has been Moridin since he 'escaped'.

[Sharaman]

Suppose Taim= Moridin.

Why didn't Rand recognise him since he knows both appearances?

Logically somebody uses a MoM or both use MoM and we've never seen their real appearance.

Suppose Taim always uses a Mask of Mirrors. But he couldn't when they first met. He wasn't holding Saidin, and four Saldaean Swords were poking him - MoM would have been disturbed. 

So if Taim is his real appearance, Moridin as Moridin always uses a Mask of Mirrors.

But that MoM would have been disrupted when they clasped hands at Shadar Logoth and both apparently lost the respective sources, when the BF crossed. But Moridin's appearance didn't change.

So, Moridin doesn't use a Mask of Mirrors.

Yet Rand doesn't recognise him.

 

Maybe one of them uses a TP Mask of Mirrors, which is not detectable.

But then if it's Taim, he also channels OP many times, while simultaneously maintaining a TP MoM. Wow!

And if its Moridin, he loses TP at SL and still retains a MoM.

 

The logic seems to break down on several levels.

Hence it's seems unlikely that Taim=Moridin.

 

 

[witsd]

Suppose Taim always uses a Mask of Mirrors. But he couldn't when they first met. He wasn't holding Saidin, and four Saldaean Swords were poking him - MoM would have been disturbed.

 

Any reason that he couldn't be hiding the fact that he was holding it, or that it couldn't be TP-based and / or simply tied-off?

 

I think the sword-point argument is a fairly weak one. Sure MoM probably should be disturbed by this, but I don't think that it is strong enough to throw out the theory.

 

You've not convinced me yet!

[Sharaman]

If it's TP-based -then Taim can channel both TP and OP together, since Taim often channels OP without changing appearance.

We've seen no indication that it is possible to channel both TP and OP at the same time.

In fact, given what happens at Shadar Logoth when TP and OP meet, it seems likely to be a catastrophe.

Tied off - similar problem.

 

You can't hold Saidin undetectably,close to another Saidin channeler though you can invert weaves. Else, Halima wouldn't have had a problem with Logain and Narishma, in the Rebel camp.

 

And you haven't really answered the issue about the touching either except that you "think it's weak".

 

 

[Goramier]

My theory:

 

(spelling will be very bad)

 

Demo is in fact in Malkieri, where the seven broken towers are. He is building an army that will be served in cooperation with Taim. He will call on Taim to bring hime some of the darkfreind Ashaman. Taim will be an acting dredlord. Demo will be hunkered down on in the castle with an entire darkarmy of shadowspawn and darkfreind channelers to back him up.

 

Nyneave is trying to get something going between Rand and Lan. It will be Malkeiri that does it. I think Verin may have some sway in this as well. At any rate I believe that Demo is holed up in the Broken Castle pulling strings all over. I suspect we will see who is "facade" is but it will be unimportant when measured to what he has done from the shadows. I think he will ultimately have the power over Taim though Taim will be going out on his own as a dredlord as will Luc. It will pull both Lan and Rand to Malkieri.

[Nethran Thaimal]

The impression I got from tGS was that Moridin was using a keep, possibly in the capital of the country(the broken towers) in Malkier as his base of operations.  He "found" a fort that was still in good enough condition to use, which means it hasn't been abandoned long, though it was well into the Blight.  Seems like Malkier to me.

 

Also, Taim himself can't be a new forsaken like some people think.  He wasn't invited to the meeting with Moridin, like the rest were.  If the DO made him Chosen, I think Moridin would have had to invite him.

[Sharaman]

The description of Moridin's HQ in Grandal's PoV doesn't gell with Malkier as we saw it in EotW.

Graendal thought the sun position made her realise she was deep in the NorthEastern Blight

She didn't see any lakes.

Malkier is only a couple of days ride from Shienar, it's a day short of the High Passes

The Blight extends much further North and East of Malkier.

Malkier has thousands of lakes, which are infested as we see in EotW.

 

[pholt1389]

No matter what RJ said so long ago, I still think Taim will turn out to be Demandred. I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone that RJ could have simply been toying with us on a point or two. A little joke on the fans maybe. Perfectly reasonable. Although I have to agree that the similarities are almost way too obvious for it to be so easy.

 

In my long time lurking here, I've seen some people mention that perhaps Demandred is indeed not Taim, but that Demandred has replaced Taim. Killing him during his supposed "escape". In that case, RJ could have just been playing with words a bit.

 

Therefore Demandred is not Taim in the same way that, say, Sammael was Lord Brend.

[Nethran Thaimal]

*cough*That's what I said, too*cough*

 

I don't think the Taimandred theory will die until we know for sure.

[Morsmordre]

I think Taim is Taim. Yesterday I read some chapters of Winter's Heart and The Dragon Reborn. In WH Graendal says that Demandred and Dashiva were the two Forsaken that were supposed to watch Rand. Demandred is not Taim. And Taim is not Demandred. Don't you think that RJ got sick of being asked the same stupid question so many times? He told us the truth. Accept it. Look somewhere else. Maybe among the Chairienin. Demandred is said not to be tall.

[Vermillion]

I think Taim is Taim. Yesterday I read some chapters of Winter's Heart and The Dragon Reborn. In WH Graendal says that Demandred and Dashiva were the two Forsaken that were supposed to watch Rand. Demandred is not Taim. And Taim is not Demandred. Don't you think that RJ got sick of being asked the same stupid question so many times? He told us the truth. Accept it. Look somewhere else. Maybe among the Chairienin. Demandred is said not to be tall.

 

I think they were the same person at one point.  And Taim certainly acts like one of the chosen.  I think Demmys point of view of not know certain folks he would have to has Taim clinches it.

 

He could be an advance df/new chosen or even and old soul non 13 chosen with taint induced memories.  DO could have even thought he was the real Dragon at one point and turned him.  I am confident he is a df above all though.

[Casabamelon]

No matter what RJ said so long ago, I still think Taim will turn out to be Demandred.

 

Really? Really???

 

I have some silly pet theories that I'll believe until they're disproven, but outright dismissing Robert Jordan???

 

I don't understand it.

[Sab]

Yes Taim wanted one of his own near Rand.  Also if Taim was Demandred, why put Osan'gar in the tower too?  Don't really need 2 forsaken in the tower.  Be the same for the WT If Elaida was really Semi wouldn't be much of a need for Mes to be there.

[Crael123]

Taim is not Demandred. RJ said. you know, the guy that CREATED the series? the AUTHOR? yeah him.

[Nethran Thaimal]

I think Taim is Taim. Yesterday I read some chapters of Winter's Heart and The Dragon Reborn. In WH Graendal says that Demandred and Dashiva were the two Forsaken that were supposed to watch Rand. Demandred is not Taim. And Taim is not Demandred. Don't you think that RJ got sick of being asked the same stupid question so many times? He told us the truth. Accept it. Look somewhere else. Maybe among the Chairienin. Demandred is said not to be tall.

 

Demandred is tall.  He was almost as tall as Lews Therin.  Rand is about Lews Therin's height.  He's also almost as strong as Rand, almost handsome except for his nose, was almost as smart as Lews Therin, and was almost as good a general.  They say that he would have been the most remarked man of the Age of Legends if not for Lews Therin.

[Morsmordre]

I think Taim is Taim. Yesterday I read some chapters of Winter's Heart and The Dragon Reborn. In WH Graendal says that Demandred and Dashiva were the two Forsaken that were supposed to watch Rand. Demandred is not Taim. And Taim is not Demandred. Don't you think that RJ got sick of being asked the same stupid question so many times? He told us the truth. Accept it. Look somewhere else. Maybe among the Chairienin. Demandred is said not to be tall.

 

Demandred is tall.  He was almost as tall as Lews Therin.  Rand is about Lews Therin's height.  He's also almost as strong as Rand, almost handsome except for his nose, was almost as smart as Lews Therin, and was almost as good a general.  They say that he would have been the most remarked man of the Age of Legends if not for Lews Therin.

 

Maybe you're right about his height. Maybe I got confused from Graendal's PoV in TGS. She said about Moridin "the taller man". But still I have the feeling that Demandred is not that tall :/

[Taura-Tierno]

At first, I assumed that Taim was Demandred, because of the nose. Now, I don't remember if it says anywhere that he's from Saldaea and have their very prominent noses, but I thought that at first, and since Demandred has also been noted to have quite a nose, that was what first led me to believe that. IIRC. Now, still because of the nose, I think he's someone from Saldaea. Feels like quite a hint, at least to me. It would make masquerading as another person, using disguises etc, easier, since he'd be a bit more like them, physically.