The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Sevynwarr]

I think I found something.  I just finished TSR last night looking for stuff and moved onto TFOH.  In the prologue when Lanfear gathers a few others at Rahvin's domain to have a meeting she says "First, someone else is trying to control him.  Perhaps to kill.  I suspect Moghedien or Demandred.  Moghedien has always tried to work from the shadows, and Demandred always did hate Lews Therin."

 

Who else is trying to control him?  I mean, there are so many people all over the place that are trying to control him that this comment here could have EASILY gone unnoticed since the book's release.  I'm pretty sure that it's none of the four forsaken present since all of them are currently "dead" or on moridin's leash, and Moghedien is a tad busy trying to destroy Nyneave at the time, and later by being Moridin's plaything, that leaves Semirhage, Mesaana and Demandred.  Semi is busy in Seanchan I imagine, and Mesaana hasn't really shown much interest in anything outside the White Tower thus far.  She didn't even bother showing up to stop Rand cleansing Saidin.  At this time Lanfear does not know about Moridin or the gars, at least I assume she doesn't, as they don't really show up until the next book.  That leaves Demandred.  Is it possible that Demandred has been doing something all this time in the background to manipulate Rand and we just haven't seen it because there are so many other people trying to manipulate him? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

***Mistborn Spoiler***

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To liken this to a Mistborn spoiler, this would be like the voice of Ruin in Vin's head, taking the persona of her brother and trying to manipulate her into doing what it wanted throughout the entire series.

 

 

 

 

 

 

***end spoiler***

 

 

 

 

 

[thewalrus777]

I don't know about this Walrus, I think he trusts Rhuarc pretty darn well.  he just got a little crazy with being "harder" that he started treating everyone like crap.  He's gonna trust a lot more people but I do agree that it is a strong possibility that an uprising of Aiel DFs could happen.  And your forgetting a couple of people, Egwene, Lan, Loial, and even though he is bonded now, Damer Flynn.  I actually think he trusts Berelain too though her story mostly rolls with Perrin's.

 

I was just referring to the fact that the people he trusts you can count with just your fingers and toes. But with his revelation in VoG, that trust will be given out more. He'll realize that he can't just keep making that inner circle of his smaller and smaller. It would eventually be his undoing.

[NetSlider]

I think I found something.  I just finished TSR last night looking for stuff and moved onto TFOH.  In the prologue when Lanfear gathers a few others at Rahvin's domain to have a meeting she says "First, someone else is trying to control him.  Perhaps to kill.  I suspect Moghedien or Demandred.  Moghedien has always tried to work from the shadows, and Demandred always did hate Lews Therin."

 

Who else is trying to control him?  I mean, there are so many people all over the place that are trying to control him that this comment here could have EASILY gone unnoticed since the book's release.  I'm pretty sure that it's none of the four forsaken present since all of them are currently "dead" or on moridin's leash, and Moghedien is a tad busy trying to destroy Nyneave at the time, and later by being Moridin's plaything, that leaves Semirhage, Mesaana and Demandred.  Semi is busy in Seanchan I imagine, and Mesaana hasn't really shown much interest in anything outside the White Tower thus far.  She didn't even bother showing up to stop Rand cleansing Saidin.  At this time Lanfear does not know about Moridin or the gars, at least I assume she doesn't, as they don't really show up until the next book.  That leaves Demandred.  Is it possible that Demandred has been doing something all this time in the background to manipulate Rand and we just haven't seen it because there are so many other people trying to manipulate him? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

***Mistborn Spoiler***

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To liken this to a Mistborn spoiler, this would be like the voice of Ruin in Vin's head, taking the persona of her brother and trying to manipulate her into doing what it wanted throughout the entire series.

 

 

 

 

 

 

***end spoiler***

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, this is out there, but maybe Demandread is with Aiel? His army is ready for war and maybe the DF among Aiel is that army. I mean, that would certainly make a very good opponent out of him if instead of having some wetland army he actually had Aiel under his command. Truly only remnant of remnant would survive than.

[BladeDancer]

Ok, so I've posted this before in this thread, but no one seemed to notice, but after doing some more research, I think it warrants considering:

 

In chapter 56 of The Shadow Rising (Book IV) we are given a PoV of a defeated Fain leaving the Two Rivers. He says (on page 942 on the paperback) that he is taking his remaining darkfriends to Tar Valon, "But Caemlyn first!" We next see Fain already in Tar Valon in the prologue of The Fires of Heaven, with no hint of what he did in Caemlyn. We know that Fain can have a corrupting influence wherever he goes, so it seems important to consider what Fain did in Caemlyn.     

 

This was mentioned by me - earlier in this thread.

 

It did seem strange that we do not see what Fain did in Caemlyn initially. We see him in Caemlyn after he has been to Tar Valon to get the dagger. This does not explain why he went to Caemlyn before going to Tar Valon unless it was just because it was en route to Tar Valon and an easy place to pick up supplies. It makes sense for Fain to be in Caemlyn later and try to assasinate Rand but when Fain leaves the Two Rivers - Rand is not in Caemlyn. Fain would not know Rand would show up in Caemlyn later on and so maybe his reason was unrelated to Rand.

[SI]

Ok, so I've posted this before in this thread, but no one seemed to notice, but after doing some more research, I think it warrants considering:

 

In chapter 56 of The Shadow Rising (Book IV) we are given a PoV of a defeated Fain leaving the Two Rivers. He says (on page 942 on the paperback) that he is taking his remaining darkfriends to Tar Valon, "But Caemlyn first!" We next see Fain already in Tar Valon in the prologue of The Fires of Heaven, with no hint of what he did in Caemlyn. We know that Fain can have a corrupting influence wherever he goes, so it seems important to consider what Fain did in Caemlyn.     

dont his whitecloaks try to kill rand? and later there is a fake aiel attack on the sisters, my guess is those are also his exwhitecloaks

[BladeDancer]

Ok, so I've posted this before in this thread, but no one seemed to notice, but after doing some more research, I think it warrants considering:

 

In chapter 56 of The Shadow Rising (Book IV) we are given a PoV of a defeated Fain leaving the Two Rivers. He says (on page 942 on the paperback) that he is taking his remaining darkfriends to Tar Valon, "But Caemlyn first!" We next see Fain already in Tar Valon in the prologue of The Fires of Heaven, with no hint of what he did in Caemlyn. We know that Fain can have a corrupting influence wherever he goes, so it seems important to consider what Fain did in Caemlyn.     

dont his whitecloaks try to kill rand? and later there is a fake aiel attack on the sisters, my guess is those are also his exwhitecloaks

 

Yes but both those events happen much later, after Rand had fought Rahvin. Fain leaves the Two Rivers and goes to Tar Valon via Caemlyn, Rand is in Rhuidean when Fain is in Tar Valon - so Rand must still be in the Waste when Fain goes to Caemlyn with his Whitecloaks. So Fain would not go to Caemlyn in order to attack Rand (or set up the future crossbow ambush) because Rand is not there and there is no reason for Fain to know that Rand would later go to Caemlyn.

[ed2funy]

i see TaR working just like karma ed. it all fits,  its a place where if you dont follow the rules, you get hurt, even if your not a hero of the horn. verin went in ignorance, and payed the price...

 

Egwene went in ignorance. The Salidar AS went in ignorance.

Nothing has happened to them. In fact, they got the Tower. :P

I just don't see it like that.

[Chronosword]

Ok, so I've posted this before in this thread, but no one seemed to notice, but after doing some more research, I think it warrants considering:

 

In chapter 56 of The Shadow Rising (Book IV) we are given a PoV of a defeated Fain leaving the Two Rivers. He says (on page 942 on the paperback) that he is taking his remaining darkfriends to Tar Valon, "But Caemlyn first!" We next see Fain already in Tar Valon in the prologue of The Fires of Heaven, with no hint of what he did in Caemlyn. We know that Fain can have a corrupting influence wherever he goes, so it seems important to consider what Fain did in Caemlyn.     

 

This was mentioned by me - earlier in this thread.

 

It did seem strange that we do not see what Fain did in Caemlyn initially. We see him in Caemlyn after he has been to Tar Valon to get the dagger. This does not explain why he went to Caemlyn before going to Tar Valon unless it was just because it was en route to Tar Valon and an easy place to pick up supplies. It makes sense for Fain to be in Caemlyn later and try to assasinate Rand but when Fain leaves the Two Rivers - Rand is not in Caemlyn. Fain would not know Rand would show up in Caemlyn later on and so maybe his reason was unrelated to Rand.

 

I always thought that Fain went to Caemlyn to tell the Queen about the Two Rivers "rebelling" against her and trying to revive Manatheren.

[BladeDancer]

Ok, so I've posted this before in this thread, but no one seemed to notice, but after doing some more research, I think it warrants considering:

 

In chapter 56 of The Shadow Rising (Book IV) we are given a PoV of a defeated Fain leaving the Two Rivers. He says (on page 942 on the paperback) that he is taking his remaining darkfriends to Tar Valon, "But Caemlyn first!" We next see Fain already in Tar Valon in the prologue of The Fires of Heaven, with no hint of what he did in Caemlyn. We know that Fain can have a corrupting influence wherever he goes, so it seems important to consider what Fain did in Caemlyn.     

 

This was mentioned by me - earlier in this thread.

 

It did seem strange that we do not see what Fain did in Caemlyn initially. We see him in Caemlyn after he has been to Tar Valon to get the dagger. This does not explain why he went to Caemlyn before going to Tar Valon unless it was just because it was en route to Tar Valon and an easy place to pick up supplies. It makes sense for Fain to be in Caemlyn later and try to assasinate Rand but when Fain leaves the Two Rivers - Rand is not in Caemlyn. Fain would not know Rand would show up in Caemlyn later on and so maybe his reason was unrelated to Rand.

 

I always thought that Fain went to Caemlyn to tell the Queen about the Two Rivers "rebelling" against her and trying to revive Manatheren.

 

Tallanvor told a Compulsed Morgase that a messenger had just come from Whitebridge with that news. This happens some time after Fain has met Elaida in Tar Valon - so he had gone to Caemlyn and left weeks before the news about Manatheren reached the Royal Palace in Andor. So Fain did not bring this news to Morgase (and Rahvin). It seems a lot more likely to be a more conventional messenger hearing the news as the word of the Two Rivers fighting spread by refugees/normal word of mouth.

 

So Fain and his Whitecloaks would have known about the Manatheren Flag before this messenger arrived but they certainly did not share this news with the Royal Palace despite being in Caemlyn months before. Perrin travels from Emonds Field to Caemlyn and he says this took him over two months on horseback. Messengers would be much quicker but still at least a month imo. Caemlyn to Tar Valon is perhaps another month at least (if you take a ship upriver from Aringill). So Fain was in Caemlyn at least 2 months before Morgase got news about Manatheren. So Fain was not the one spreading this news - so this could not be the reason for his trip to Caemlyn.

[NetSlider]

I really don't feel like rewriting the whole idea here (plus, it belong to someone else), but here is a link to a discussion that might be very interesting to this topic:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,52815.60.html

 

Fits the time line and other requirements and definitely "like Misborn" unnoticed thing.

[a pale tanned lover]

Ok, so I've posted this before in this thread, but no one seemed to notice, but after doing some more research, I think it warrants considering:

 

In chapter 56 of The Shadow Rising (Book IV) we are given a PoV of a defeated Fain leaving the Two Rivers. He says (on page 942 on the paperback) that he is taking his remaining darkfriends to Tar Valon, "But Caemlyn first!" We next see Fain already in Tar Valon in the prologue of The Fires of Heaven, with no hint of what he did in Caemlyn. We know that Fain can have a corrupting influence wherever he goes, so it seems important to consider what Fain did in Caemlyn.     

Maybe Fain had a change of heart when he realized that Rahvin was there and that Caemlyn wouldn't be easy pickings for him.

dont his whitecloaks try to kill rand? and later there is a fake aiel attack on the sisters, my guess is those are also his exwhitecloaks

 

Yes but both those events happen much later, after Rand had fought Rahvin. Fain leaves the Two Rivers and goes to Tar Valon via Caemlyn, Rand is in Rhuidean when Fain is in Tar Valon - so Rand must still be in the Waste when Fain goes to Caemlyn with his Whitecloaks. So Fain would not go to Caemlyn in order to attack Rand (or set up the future crossbow ambush) because Rand is not there and there is no reason for Fain to know that Rand would later go to Caemlyn.

[Crael123]

maybe fain went to caemlyn and thas how elayne became such a bitch and a bore

[StefanR]

maybe fain went to caemlyn and thas how elayne became such a bitch and a bore

 

HAAAAAAAAAAAAa

[ed2funy]

maybe fain went to caemlyn and thas how elayne became such a bitch and a bore

 

Another Bore...that would be unnoticed. :P

[Spilt-pea Soup]

What do we know about the Chora.  Why were they so important as to have a whole people tend them?  Why so important they needed to be saved? 

 

Is the tree of life going to be healed?  Are the happenings in the world linked to the tree of life? 

 

the "trefoil leaves spreading peace and contentment in the shadows of silvery buildings . . . A city without choras would seem bleak as a wilderness."  And now there is only one, and it's burned.

 

Is the peace during the AoL linked to the trees?

[ed2funy]

The Chora literally made cities peaceful. The walkways were lined with them and I think someone said you can't have civilization without the Chora trees or something. :-\

 

lol...So, you posted the quote. hehehe...I didn't see that.

I don't think it reflects the world in that sense.

 

But yes, the AoL was a lot more peaceful due to the trees.

[Dreamwalker]

The Chora literally made cities peaceful. The walkways were lined with them and I think someone said you can't have civilization without the Chora trees or something. :-\

 

lol...So, you posted the quote. hehehe...I didn't see that.

I don't think it reflects the world in that sense.

 

But yes, the AoL was a lot more peaceful due to the trees.

 

Yes, remember when Mat sits against the tree he feels utterly content and at peace, so they literally exude a feeling of calm and goodwill. Sidenote: this seems very much to be a reference to the story of Buddha finding enlightenment (or peace) while sitting under a tree. :-)

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

personally, i always felt avendasora paralleled yggdrasil, the norse world tree, what with all the other norse references, and the ultimate reference when matt hangs from it for knowledge, as odin was said to have done. though it had 3 taproots, each taking water from a different source and combining them in the trunk. hmmm, that also seems to be a metaphor in the wheel of time too... may go do some research now...

[dholm]

Most everything in WoT is a composite of inspirations, including the chora trees (as well as the Tree of Life).

[Tommatt]

I've read every page and havnt seen this mentioned or discounted.  If the timeline is correct it could fit or, maybe it's already common knowledge and I'm just now maybe connecting it.

 

When did the prophet show up?  Wasn't it about this time?  Did masema and fain cross paths and that's how he got corrupted?  Then again, with the propet dead, not sure how it plays a part in the future.  Ok bad idea 

[Sharaman]

I've read every page and havnt seen this mentioned or discounted.  If the timeline is correct it could fit or, maybe it's already common knowledge and I'm just now maybe connecting it.

 

When did the prophet show up?  Wasn't it about this time?  Did masema and fain cross paths and that's how he got corrupted?  Then again, with the propet dead, not sure how it plays a part in the future.  Ok bad idea   

 

Too early in any case. Masema meets Fain in TGH (if not earlier in EotW) and he starts getting all religious and Emo in TDR.

 

[Crael123]

I've read every page and havnt seen this mentioned or discounted.  If the timeline is correct it could fit or, maybe it's already common knowledge and I'm just now maybe connecting it.

 

When did the prophet show up?  Wasn't it about this time?  Did masema and fain cross paths and that's how he got corrupted?  Then again, with the propet dead, not sure how it plays a part in the future.  Ok bad idea   

 

Too early in any case. Masema meets Fain in TGH (if not earlier in EotW) and he starts getting all religious and Emo in TDR.

 

 

 

omg mesema got soooo annoying he should go die in a forest with a knife in his heart..... wait a second.... oh yeah.

[thewalrus777]

I've read every page and havnt seen this mentioned or discounted.  If the timeline is correct it could fit or, maybe it's already common knowledge and I'm just now maybe connecting it.

 

When did the prophet show up?  Wasn't it about this time?  Did masema and fain cross paths and that's how he got corrupted?  Then again, with the propet dead, not sure how it plays a part in the future.  Ok bad idea   

 

Too early in any case. Masema meets Fain in TGH (if not earlier in EotW) and he starts getting all religious and Emo in TDR.

 

 

 

omg mesema got soooo annoying he should go die in a forest with a knife in his heart..... wait a second.... oh yeah.

 

HE DID!!!!! Good friggin' riddance!

[lillcheese]

I've read every page and havnt seen this mentioned or discounted.  If the timeline is correct it could fit or, maybe it's already common knowledge and I'm just now maybe connecting it.

 

When did the prophet show up?  Wasn't it about this time?  Did masema and fain cross paths and that's how he got corrupted?  Then again, with the propet dead, not sure how it plays a part in the future.  Ok bad idea   

 

Too early in any case. Masema meets Fain in TGH (if not earlier in EotW) and he starts getting all religious and Emo in TDR.

 

 

When did that happen?  I just finished TGH, I don't recall any of our hunters getting anywhere close to Fain once Rand takes the chest.  Plus Masema never entered Falme so far as we know. 

 

Masema was crazy all on his own.  Didn't need any Fain tainty help.

[Sharaman]

I've read every page and havnt seen this mentioned or discounted.  If the timeline is correct it could fit or, maybe it's already common knowledge and I'm just now maybe connecting it.

 

When did the prophet show up?  Wasn't it about this time?  Did masema and fain cross paths and that's how he got corrupted?  Then again, with the propet dead, not sure how it plays a part in the future.  Ok bad idea   

 

Too early in any case. Masema meets Fain in TGH (if not earlier in EotW) and he starts getting all religious and Emo in TDR.

 

 

When did that happen?  I just finished TGH, I don't recall any of our hunters getting anywhere close to Fain once Rand takes the chest.  Plus Masema never entered Falme so far as we know. 

 

Masema was crazy all on his own.  Didn't need any Fain tainty help.

 

Masema was a soldier posted as guard at Fal Dara where Fain was a prisoner. He met Fain before Fain escaped. That's why I said he may have met him in EotW as well.