The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Sentinel78]

Mat died from lightning caused by Rahvin.  Rand balefired Rahvin.  The pattern was reshaped without Rahvin's final actions. 

I always interpreted "Die and live again, a part of what was" to mean:

1.  Mat died.

2.  Mat came back to life after balefire

3.  What was, is restored by Rahvin being ripped out of the pattern.  Mat is a part of what was.

 

I see what you mean, and I've been aware of this interpretation.  I guess my own interpretation is:

 

1.  Mat died (hanged in Rhuidean).

2.  Mat came back to life after Rand revived him.

3.  "to live once more a part of what was", Mat awakens with the old battle memories, so Mat is now living with past memories, i.e., a part of what was.

 

Wantanswers indicated that RJ explicitly ruled out my interpretation, and I was just hoping RJ's statement to this effect could be cited.

[Wantanswers]

@ Sentinel

I cannot exactly remember where I read it. I can only remember it has mentioned in a discussion if Matt was still bonded to the Horn of Valere.

 

@ JakeBarnes

I think you missed half of it. Moraine explained how balefire works in Fires from Heaven, chapter 6.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

i always felt that the dying and living again a part of what was, was something to do with mat being the hornsounder. hes linked to it now, and i thought he would also end up a hero of the horn.

[Wantanswers]

Yes, he is the hornsounder. But if he dies, he won't be anymore

[JakeBarnes]

I didn't miss anything.  Things returned to what was.  It can't refer to the memories, because the memories were there after the second doorway, not when he came back to life.

[Shannow]

The big thing happens when Rand and Aviendha visit Seanchan in the Far Snows chapter of FoH.

 

A Seeker overhears Aviendha say that the sul'dam can channel as well, and states that the sul'dam and damane must be confiscated by the Seekers for further questioning. The Seeker then also says that it seems as if the sul'dam have been keeping a very important secret from them (namely that they can also channel).

 

I think this is the thing that will have a huge impact on the Seanchan. Their entire social order will collapse, and with it, the power of their armies. That's why Tuon will need Mat's cannons to help her win back her throne after Tarmon Gaidon.

 

And this will probably cause many sul'dam to join the Shadow in order to escape the wrath of the Seekers, once sul'dam are outlawed.

[Wantanswers]

Mat got his memories in The Shadow Rising. Moraine explaines how balefire works in The Fires of Heaven. You missed half of how balefire works.

[wingedearth]

The big thing happens when Rand and Aviendha visit Seanchan in the Far Snows chapter of FoH.

 

A Seeker overhears Aviendha say that the sul'dam can channel as well, and states that the sul'dam and damane must be confiscated by the Seekers for further questioning. The Seeker then also says that it seems as if the sul'dam have been keeping a very important secret from them (namely that they can also channel).

 

I think this is the thing that will have a huge impact on the Seanchan. Their entire social order will collapse, and with it, the power of their armies. That's why Tuon will need Mat's cannons to help her win back her throne after Tarmon Gaidon.

 

And this will probably cause many sul'dam to join the Shadow in order to escape the wrath of the Seekers, once sul'dam are outlawed.

 

What does it matter what the Seekers think? Tuon already knows that sul'dam (including Tuon herself) can channel, and says that the separation between sul'dam and damane is that sul'dam choose not to channel, sorta like how she has the ability to murder and steal but chooses not to.  This being the case, Tuon, as Empress, can allow sul'dam to go on as they were, despite the knowledge that they have the ability to channel. I'm assuming that Seekers have to obey the Empress.

 

I realize this may not pertain to parts of Seanchan that rebel against Tuon, but who cares what they think? If they don't want to have sul'dam controlling damane, there's no way they could challenge Tuon's armies anyhow.

[lammbo]

Hi guys!  Old time member returning here.  I was a member of this site back in the really old days right after it started, had D-mail and all that good stuff (I want to say it was even pre-Y2k).  Was apparently inactive so long my account got whacked.

 

Anyway...

 

I read this entire thread over the course of the last 4 days (WOW!) and I just have to say I was reminded of why I used to frequent the site to start with.  Good stuff here, but a few things have been bothering me.  I apologize in advance if any of this has been covered in other threads I haven't had the time to read yet:

 

"Tell the Dragon Reborn..." - Why does everyone think the tinkers wrote this?  I always took this as something that the killers wrote to enrage Rand.  Is there anything that says the dead tinkers wrote it?  After multiple re-reads and a few passes through with the audiobooks, I don't think I ever saw/heard anything that says the tinkers wrote it.

 

Matt's hat - funny, but really?!?

 

Bela IS the creator - That one was around when I was here before, sill love it! lol

 

"Bind the daughter of the Nine Moons" - First, she is no longer the Dot9M.  Second, when she WAS the Dot9M, she MARRIED one of the Dragon's best friends.  As a guy who's been married almost 20 years, I can tell you that's pretty damn binding.  Isn't it possible that this association is the binding of the prophecy?

 

Luc/Isam/Slayer - Sent off by Gitara because tLB depended on Luc.  Could this also be related to Elaida's fortelling that the bloodline of Andor is important in tLB and in her arrogance, she just assumed that it would be Elaine?  Given her current condition, it could have something to do with the unborn twins but I have a nagging feeling in my mind it is not.

 

That's all I have for now, rip away!

[Shannow]

The big thing happens when Rand and Aviendha visit Seanchan in the Far Snows chapter of FoH.

 

A Seeker overhears Aviendha say that the sul'dam can channel as well, and states that the sul'dam and damane must be confiscated by the Seekers for further questioning. The Seeker then also says that it seems as if the sul'dam have been keeping a very important secret from them (namely that they can also channel).

 

I think this is the thing that will have a huge impact on the Seanchan. Their entire social order will collapse, and with it, the power of their armies. That's why Tuon will need Mat's cannons to help her win back her throne after Tarmon Gaidon.

 

And this will probably cause many sul'dam to join the Shadow in order to escape the wrath of the Seekers, once sul'dam are outlawed.

 

What does it matter what the Seekers think? Tuon already knows that sul'dam (including Tuon herself) can channel, and says that the separation between sul'dam and damane is that sul'dam choose not to channel, sorta like how she has the ability to murder and steal but chooses not to.  This being the case, Tuon, as Empress, can allow sul'dam to go on as they were, despite the knowledge that they have the ability to channel. I'm assuming that Seekers have to obey the Empress.

 

I realize this may not pertain to parts of Seanchan that rebel against Tuon, but who cares what they think? If they don't want to have sul'dam controlling damane, there's no way they could challenge Tuon's armies anyhow.

 

Well, maybe they can declare Tuon's claim to the throne void because she is a channeler. And then her authority goes with it, and the Seanchan suddenly become a non-factor overnight, as they fall upon themselves to try and create a new social order without damane and sul'dam.

[Paendragon]

Where is all the Tuon hatred coming from. She was a bit different than I imagined but I think she and Mat will be my favorite couple. (I liked Perrin and Faile but am extremely tired of the jealous Faile when she has no cause)

 

 

Here here! I'm kinda pissed we didn't meet Tuon earlier in the series.

[Loganeich]

Ok, i dunno if this has been mentioned anywhere in the previous 103 pages, but could the big thing be the little bit in the Kaethr-whatever cycle about the dragon's blood being spilled at Shayol Guhl, and the fact that Rand has a half brother (through his mother) wandering around the blight? Perhaps the "blood" of the Dragon refers not to the red stuff flowing through him, but his blood relative. This kinda has some pretty bit implications, was only mentioned once that he has a half brother, and would seriously warp his perceptions of the prophecy...

 

 

Plus it wasn't anywhere on the first 10 pages, i did read that far.

 

The thing about Rand and Aviendha in Seanchan is pretty big, but it hasn't gone unnoticed, as people still talk about it, plus, it hasn't nearly as big of an importance (imo) as the bruthah thang.

[Sentinel78]

"Bind the daughter of the Nine Moons" - First, she is no longer the Dot9M.  Second, when she WAS the Dot9M, she MARRIED one of the Dragon's best friends.  As a guy who's been married almost 20 years, I can tell you that's pretty damn binding.  Isn't it possible that this association is the binding of the prophecy?

 

It's not "bind tDotNM", it's just bind "the nine moons to serve him".  The daughter of the nine moons is the proclaimed heiress to the throne, implying that the nine moons is the throne itself, or the empress.  Maybe a different name would be used for an emperor, but it's been 800 or 900 years since an emperor rules Seanchan.  Thus, binding the nine moons to serve him hasn't happened yet.  Tuon does not serve Rand in any way, shape or form.

 

 

Btw, I like the Far Snows chapter being the unnoticed thing.... What is the POINT of that chapter elsewise?  Why did Aviendha have to Travel there of all places?  It takes on a special significance if this is what led to the revolt in Seanchan.  Perhaps we are incorrect in assuming that Semirhage orchestrated this revolt. 

 

Think about it --- a few people rebel against the Seanchan throne, start taking sul'dam as damane, such that their own sul'dam are well aware they could also be captured, that could lead to pure chaos, no sul'dam trusting each other and the numbers of sul'dam FAR exceed damane... A rebel would quickly be able to gather many more damane then the Empress who used up a lot of them in the Return and is restricted to girls born with the spark. Maybe Tuon will hear what happened and realize she has to change her ways because her system in unsustainable.

[lammbo]

"Bind the daughter of the Nine Moons" - First, she is no longer the Dot9M.  Second, when she WAS the Dot9M, she MARRIED one of the Dragon's best friends.  As a guy who's been married almost 20 years, I can tell you that's pretty damn binding.  Isn't it possible that this association is the binding of the prophecy?

 

It's not "bind tDotNM", it's just bind "the nine moons to serve him".  The daughter of the nine moons is the proclaimed heiress to the throne, implying that the nine moons is the throne itself, or the empress.  Maybe a different name would be used for an emperor, but it's been 800 or 900 years since an emperor rules Seanchan.  Thus, binding the nine moons to serve him hasn't happened yet.  Tuon does not serve Rand in any way, shape or form.

 

Aha!  Thanks for the clarification.  Still don't think it has anything to do with a binding chair.

[Sharaman]

The Far Snows could also be about the Sceptre. Or simply developing the Rand-Avi storyline.

FWIW, Avi doesn't say the Suldam can channel in the Seeker's hearing. She says it when they're sneaking up and working out who shields and guards whom. Since they do it successfully I'm guessing the Seeker doesn't hear.

Anyway by now, lots of Seanchan know - Suroth knew, may have passed it onto her DF network.

The blokes (Musenge?) who saw Mat fight the last battle in KoD knew.

 

[Loganeich]

The Far Snows could also be about the Sceptre. Or simply developing the Rand-Avi storyline.

FWIW, Avi doesn't say the Suldam can channel in the Seeker's hearing. She says it when they're sneaking up and working out who shields and guards whom. Since they do it successfully I'm guessing the Seeker doesn't hear.

Anyway by now, lots of Seanchan know - Suroth knew, may have passed it onto her DF network.

The blokes (Musenge?) who saw Mat fight the last battle in KoD knew.

 

 

As far as we know, the Far Snows were meant to set up the Seanchan, give Rand a taste of them, before he actually had to devour them.

[Auld Manriva]

I keep thinking there was some squabble among the Seanchan in that scene, but I can't recall for the life of me and I don't feel like shuffling thru my audiobook to find it. It doesn't seem like it would be the big thing though.

[mike-cook]

OK i've seriously figured out what this little detail is almost 100%. I'm just about to finish The Shadow Rising for the second time and I just past the part where Nynaeve and Moghedien fight for the first time. Listen to what the forsaken says...

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 54 - Into The Palace

"So you discovered that little gem behind you," Moghedien said in a moment of precarious balance. Surprisingly, her voice was almost conversational. "I wonder how you did that. It does not matter. Did you come to take it away? Perhaps to destroy it? You cannot destroy it. That is not metal, but a form of cuendillar. Even balefire cannot destroy cuendillar. And if you mean to use it, it does have...drawbacks, shall we say? Put the collar on a man who channels, and a woman wearing the bracelets can make him do whatever she wishes, true, but it will not stop him going mad...."

She pretty much goes on talking about the Domination Band more, but it's made of cuendillar and yet somehow in The Gathering Storm Rand destroyed it.

So the little detail is that the True Power can destroy cuendillar.

[Spilt-pea Soup]

OK i've seriously figured out what this little detail is almost 100%. I'm just about to finish The Shadow Rising for the second time and I just past the part where Nynaeve and Moghedien fight for the first time. Listen to what the forsaken says...

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 54 - Into The Palace

"So you discovered that little gem behind you," Moghedien said in a moment of precarious balance. Surprisingly, her voice was almost conversational. "I wonder how you did that. It does not matter. Did you come to take it away? Perhaps to destroy it? You cannot destroy it. That is not metal, but a form of cuendillar. Even balefire cannot destroy cuendillar. And if you mean to use it, it does have...drawbacks, shall we say? Put the collar on a man who channels, and a woman wearing the bracelets can make him do whatever she wishes, true, but it will not stop him going mad...."

She pretty much goes on talking about the Domination Band more, but it's made of cuendillar and yet somehow in The Gathering Storm Rand destroyed it.

So the little detail is that the True Power can destroy cuendillar.

 

Wow--interesting find! 

 

I doubt this is the BUT, because BS said that the BUT wasn't talked about much on the forums.  I presume that the BUT doesn't require anything from tGS or else it wouldn't make sense for him to have said that.

[mossman87]

OK i've seriously figured out what this little detail is almost 100%. I'm just about to finish The Shadow Rising for the second time and I just past the part where Nynaeve and Moghedien fight for the first time. Listen to what the forsaken says...

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 54 - Into The Palace

"So you discovered that little gem behind you," Moghedien said in a moment of precarious balance. Surprisingly, her voice was almost conversational. "I wonder how you did that. It does not matter. Did you come to take it away? Perhaps to destroy it? You cannot destroy it. That is not metal, but a form of cuendillar. Even balefire cannot destroy cuendillar. And if you mean to use it, it does have...drawbacks, shall we say? Put the collar on a man who channels, and a woman wearing the bracelets can make him do whatever she wishes, true, but it will not stop him going mad...."

She pretty much goes on talking about the Domination Band more, but it's made of cuendillar and yet somehow in The Gathering Storm Rand destroyed it.

So the little detail is that the True Power can destroy cuendillar.

 

We already know it can destroy cuendillar, Brandon has said it, and also it's been eating away at the seals so that's how we had a hint before confirmation.

 

Here you go:

 

Q: Was the Domination Band made of cuendillar?

A: The original one is made of cuendillar. The one that was destroyed was a copy, but one would assume that the copies are made of cuendillar too. The True Power works by destroying the Pattern. Everything that is done with it involves damage to the Pattern. For example, when we see Ishamael Travel, he does so by poking a hole in the Pattern. Cuendillar can be destroyed using the True Power. There is another way to destroy cuendillar, too.

[shinerfan]

Could the other way of destroying it be similar to Elayne & Avi's trick of "unweaving" a gateway? Wrong book to be the BUT though.

[Sharaman]

I keep thinking there was some squabble among the Seanchan in that scene, but I can't recall for the life of me and I don't feel like shuffling thru my audiobook to find it. It doesn't seem like it would be the big thing though.

 

There was. One of the Seanchan had been in Falme and heard about Rand. The Seeker decided to interrogate her.

[Kal11]

Could the other way of destroying it be similar to Elayne & Avi's trick of "unweaving" a gateway? Wrong book to be the BUT though.

 

I was rereading parts of PoD today and came across the scene where Moridin is getting debriefed on the activities regarding the Bowl of Winds from a palace servant named Madic.  From Moridin's POV (pages 81-82) he muses on things done by 3rd agers that he had never thought possible such as weather control without proper ter'angreal.  What stuck out was his shock at seeing Avi unweave a gateway (unraveling a web is the term Moridin uses), referring to it as an impossibility and generally being in a state of disbelief. 

 

In previous readings that had never jumped out at me before and struck me as something that could have bigger implications later given the big deal made of it. I know wrong book for what everyone is looking for, just something that I found interesting and have overlooked previously.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

They were all so arrogant in the AOL!

[Kal11]

They were all so arrogant in the AOL!

 

Hehe, yeah they were.  Even putting the Forsaken aside who universally share arrogance as a personality trait to some degree and find the 3rd age primitive, even the good guys in the AOL viewed themselves as the pinnacle of civilization.