The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[NetSlider]

Ok, I know I'm back to the same thing, but I still think it's Calandor. The fact it can search out the shadowspan in the Stone and not harm humans is the thing that makes the sword stand out. Never before or after and object (or human for that matter) can differentiate between light and dark. Plus one of the last chapters of tGS Calandor is in the center of discussion (and all of a sudden BS talks about a missed crucial thing).

[mossman87]

Ok, I know I'm back to the same thing, but I still think it's Calandor. The fact it can search out the shadowspan in the Stone and not harm humans is the thing that makes the sword stand out. Never before or after and object (or human for that matter) can differentiate between light and dark. Plus one of the last chapters of tGS Calandor is in the center of discussion (and all of a sudden BS talks about a missed crucial thing).

 

We've known for a long time Callandor would be important to the story, this is something that's supposed to sneak under our radar.

[NetSlider]

We know Calandor is important, but how? We know nothing about Calandor (not even when it was made). We also have no idea how it was put where it was. Stone is mentioned many time to be build by power and all but nothing on Calandor. One would think that an event of someone putting a sword that is not a sword in the stone would be very well documented or at least remembered somewhat. In anyway, I'm not sure how much it was discussed besides the fact it will be important (and since Rand got the access key Calandor kind of went into obscurity).

[lsm]

what about the time nynaeve/elayne used need in TAR to find the angreal stash. the first place they were sent to was the white tower.

 

their need experience was touched on briefly in a few other books, but not much.

 

was it the horn they were sent to on the first try or is it something else the tower might have?

[Dolphineus]

Ok, I know I'm back to the same thing, but I still think it's Calandor. The fact it can search out the shadowspan in the Stone and not harm humans is the thing that makes the sword stand out. Never before or after and object (or human for that matter) can differentiate between light and dark. Plus one of the last chapters of tGS Calandor is in the center of discussion (and all of a sudden BS talks about a missed crucial thing).

 

Callandor didn't "search out shadowspawn in the Stone", a weave of the power that Rand created did that.  Callandor is a sa'angreal that amplifies the amount of Saidin Rand can draw, not a ter'angreal that does something with the power.

 

All that said, I think we all believe Callandor has a large role to play in the last two books.

 

 

As I've read thru all 60+ pages of this thread, I decided to approach this from a slightly different angle.  Instead of just throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks (and I've been amazed how many things people have thrown out that were from book 9), why don't we look at the story arc from books 4-6.  Also, I think it would be prudent to not set that as a hard limit.  BS said it happened someone in 4-6, but he wasn't exactly looking at a timelime when he said that.

 

So, with that in mind ...

 

Book 4 - The Shadow Rising (the quick summary()

Fain/Whitcloaks invade Two Rivers.  Seanchan return.

Miasma ... bubbles of evil start appearing.

 

Rand in Tear ... threatens High Lords, changes laws, gets mad.  Meets w/ Lanfear.  Trollocs/Fades attack the Stone.  Rand, at Lanfear's prompting uses Callandor and unleashes the great big ball of lightning thing.  

 

MOraine/Rand/Mat go thru the door frame terangreal.  Rand uses portal stone to take everyone to Rhuidean.  Morraine/Avienda go through the rings.  Rand goes thru columns to see history of Aiel and marked with dragons.  Mat goes thru other doorframe terangreal, gets hanged, gets spear, medallion and all those memories.

 

Travel to Cold Rocks Hold.  Meet Lanfear/Asmodean on the way.  Shadowspawn attack.  Alcair Dal.  Rand fights and defats Asmodean.  

 

Perrin ... Faile/Berelin start fighting over Perrin.  Go thru the Ways to Two Rivers.  Learn Shadowspawn are using the Ways.  Meet Slayer/Luc/Isam and Brigette in Tel'aran'rhiod, introduced to the Tower of Genghi.  Verin makes people wary.  Kill lots of Trollocs and transform Two Rivers into a major city.

 

Elayne/Nynaeve question Black Ajah.  Go to Tanchico.  Meet Domon again.  Meet Egeanin.  Get compulsed by Moghedian.  Create chaos, mess up Black Ajah/Mogedian plans, sneak out.  

 

Egwene goes to Rhiudean, becomes Wise One apprentice, learns Dreamwalking.

Aviendha also becomes a Wise One apprentice and gets stuck to Rands side.

 

Min returns to the White Tower.  Meets with Gawyn/Galad and Siuan.  Reads everyone, sees the Tower Split and Seanchan collaring Aes Sedai.  Elaida begins her plotting to overthrow Suian.

 

This is all based on a quick skimming of the book, not a re-read.  It is entirely possible I am missing the important thing.

 

Things the occurred in this book that seen to me to be important

First revelation of link between ageless look and oath rod.  (Amico stilled)

First revelations of channelers with places of honor outside the White Tower.

 

Revelation of the Jenn Aiel/history of the Aiel/Rhuidean.  The Aiel prophecy of "only a remnant of a remnant will remain."   The Aiel wise ones always seen to be focused on saving as many as they can.  I don't think it refers to numbers.  I always interpreted this to refer to the Aiel who succumb to the bleakness and the Tinkers.

 

There is also the Aiel belief that if they fail the Aes Sedai again they will be destroyed.  We first encountered this in The Great Hunt I believe, but with all the focus on the history of the Aiel in The Shadow Rising, it seemed more important here.  How did the Aiel fail the Aes Sedai?  Was it by failing to protect their cache of *angreal?  Was it simply by picking up the spear?   How could they fail them again?  

 

Why were there no Aiel in Seanchan?  If the breaking sundered the world and left some Aes Sedai in Seanchan, why were there no Aiel?  What about the weird mountain clan fellow who attached himself Banner General Karede?  Granted, he is not following the Way of the Leaf, but he attaches himself to Karede and serves completely and selflessly.  Could be what an Aiel might turn into after 3000 years in Seanchan.

 

Rand creating schools.  Already we have seen steam engines and those cranks for the Band's crossbows.  What else will they have created (and without a single intellectual property law). 

 

 

Anyway ... just some thoughts.

 

 

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Good post above, but I think you are taking a macro view when we should be looking at the micro.

 

In effect - looking at arcs in story lines is the opposite of what we should do. We aught to look at events, off hand comments et al. Things that are unnoticeable to many.

 

The point being that lots of people mention things in this thread which I remember thinking about over a long period of time whilst reading the book - like if I noticed something about the STINAS then I thought about that over the next few chapters as I read on.

 

These sorts of things are too big. It should be the thing that you maybe noticed and thought, "hmm" at the time for a grand total of 20 seconds.

 

Anyway that is my take on it.

 

Presently almost every single post I have read, apart from one or two other people who are saying much the same as I am, seems to be about something BIG.

 

The idea is that we are looking for something UNnoticed and not big at all which will be big later on. Not to say that the things mentioned here may not come to pass - but these are BIG events which lead up to BIG events, not small events which lead up to big events.

 

Why would it be worth mentioning otherwise? Why would BS say it is something he had not noticed but when he read the notes he was surprised?

 

I.E this is not Mo and Lanny going to Finland or Calandor being used at TLB. This is Calandor's maker was called Dave and Dave had a lisp and that Finn chap had a lisp so . . . oh my god it was the Finns who used to make the Angreal!

 

 

[Elros]

In the Metaphysics thread there is a quote from  Brandon pointing out that most people have missed that Eliada met with Fain.  The discussion he was having was about how Fains influence is similar to Perrin's but he points out how much it affected Eliada.  I'm guessing this is the thing we missed.  and it's HUGE because now we have to go back see everyone who Fain has ever met(/spent time with) and try to figure out if they are making them paranoid.  It seems to be working to Alviarin quite well, and Tear seems to fall apart whenever Rand leaves it alone with people who hung out with Fain.  Did I mention this qualifies as a huge, why hasn't this been discussed thing... unless it has already, so many threads, I swear these boards are pattern unto themselves.

[NetSlider]

Micro - when Mat enters second doorway the doors on the inside and their angles remind him of something (tickle something in the back of his head) but he does not remember and let's it go (this is before he gets his memories).  ;)

[Aagaard]

Lanfea hasn't been discussed that much either

In the ending of book 4 when Rand finds out who she is i Rhuidean, she opens a gateway to some palace. Next time we see her is on the docks of Cairhien, where from her POVs she hasn't been for some time, since she needs to hear from Kadere what has happened. Where was Lanfears base/lair, and what does she have in her position. Since coming back as Cyndane she has been bound to Moridin, and it makes sense if she has not revealed any plans she still have. The first books are all about the connection between Lews Therin and Lanfear, but somehow the major discussions are about how Rand will meet Moridin, eventhough Lanfear always was the most feared of the female forsaken.... Its just a thought

[FanoLan]

Would the introduction of the Siswai'aman qualify for tBUT?  All of the sudden after the battle for the city of Cairhien we see the scarlet headbands with the ancient Aes Sedai symbol (tFoH) and then some cryptic explanations from Rhuarc/Avi a bit later.  Asmo comments  to Rand about how hard it is to tell the difference between yourself and your enemies when you already own a people.  It's not come up often, but has been present since introduced, kind of small but could have much greater significance than at first appears and hasn't garnered a lot of attention on the boards that I've seen (limited exposure acknowledged).

[clu7ch]

it's the mercedes logo they found in tanchico (i think?) rand will use it (oh yeah it's a ter'angreal) to summon a SLR to ride into TG in, surprising everyone there, catching even the darkone off guard. He will then sound it's horn and bring back the autobots to destroy the forces of the shadow.

 

On a more serious note, I did notice some funny things about Matt's trip into finnland via the rhuidian doorway.

[Matcauthon999]

is it about nicola's fortelling about the 'guardians joining the servants'? I think that's book 6 and the ashaman are in all the books after that and there are a lot of links to male aes sedai

[Sentinel78]

Nicola's Foretelling says the Guardians "balance" the Servants.  The numbers of Ashaman and Aes Sedai are roughly equal now, although female channels in general (e.g., Wise Ones, damane, Ayyad, the Kin, Sea Folk channelers, etc.) still greatly outnumber men.  To me, this Foretelling, which occurred in Book 6, was just to show that the Ashaman were going to develop more of a presence in the later books, as at this point Rand's first trip to the Black Tower showed two or three male channels struggling to do simple tasks with saidin.

[NetSlider]

I must say that I'm not sure how "balanced" they will be. Even after considering how many BA were destroyed and/or ran away I think there will be a lot more Ashaman who will turn to the DO.

[Sentinel78]

Even after considering how many BA were destroyed and/or ran away I think there will be a lot more Ashaman who will turn to the DO.

 

I think it'll actually be roughly equal on the Dreadlord front too, if you only count BA and DF Ashaman.  Roughly 70 or so BA escaped the White Tower, and another 10 or 20 from the rebel camp.  When Pevara/Tarna and co went to get Taim to permit Aes Sedai to bond Ashaman as warders he had 85 or so cronies in attendance if I remember right.  That puts it in the ballpark.  Of course, there are bound to be other DF female channelers among the Kin, Ayyad, Wise Ones, etc... but probably not as many as the White Tower. 

 

Hmm... I wonder whether a DF sul'dam controlling an unwilling damane counts as a Dreadlord.. ha.

[b9anders]

Hmm... I wonder whether a DF sul'dam controlling an unwilling damane counts as a Dreadlord.. ha.

 

We know from Suroth's musings that very few Sul'dam turn to the shadow.

[emyali]

Im Really sorry if it has been mentioned before,

i did read few pages from the topic and never found it mentioned

 

 

there is something always seemed to be need explanation in books 4&6, it is a tiny little thing Regarding Berelain (the first of Mayene) and the way the Wise Ones & Ruhrac treated her.

it really irritated me to great extent not knowing why they treat her like that.

i like the woman alot (one of my fav. female charachters) but it doesnt make a sense why the liked her that much once they met her.

 

 

i dont know, but when i first read the 1st post of this topic, the 1st thing jumped to my head is this thought about Berelain and the wise ones.

 

and in several of Egwene's dreams she have seen the golden hawk.. maybe we r going to finally see some more of Berelain in the next book.

 

i dont know but it seems fit to me (maybe because i so wanna see some further actions regarding Berelain)

 

On the topic of berelain, Min's viewing of perrin stated something to do with a falcon and a hawk. I can't remember all of it, but something about run away from the hawk or it meant death....

 

but we can rule this out completely because it's in the dragon reborn

 

i never mentioned Min in my post

i said Egwene's dreams

she didnt only see the hawk related with Perrin

in A Crown Of Swords, ch.10 .. Egwene dreamed of "A golden female hawk touches her and they are tied together."

[pacificflows]

Has anyone speculated on what the repercussions of Birgitte Trahelion violating the precepts of Tel'aran'rhiod might be? Have other heros of legend been removed from the world of dreams in a similar fashion? If so, who are they and what are they doing?

 

I don't know how much discussion this has warranted from the community here, and it just struck me as something that might have some significance to this thread.

 

Any thoughts?

[logannagol]

Hi all, new to the forums here.

Anyway, what if the unnoticed thing is this: why didn't the Dark One destroy the pattern when he was freed from his prison via the bore in the Age of Legends? Why did he need the forsaken to conquer the world if all he plans to do is destroy it anyway?

I reckon it will be revealed in the next two books that the Dark One's motives, plans and abilities are not all they seem. Maybe he can't destroy the pattern by himself, maybe he even needs the Dragon's assistance to do this hence the attempts to corrupt him?

This could all be wrong or even already answered and heavily discussed so feel free to tear this to bits.

[Emily_Sedai]

Howdy all,

 

Just a few thoughts I was wondering about tonight...  I was following the thread early on, but haven't had time to read up recently, so I apologize if this has been discussed previously or on another thread.  

 

Just out of curiousity, might Rand have been channeling the True Power earlier than we expected?  We all assume that Rand's connection to the TP begain with the scene in SL, but perhaps it began earlier than that.  Towards that, I've been wondering if we've been mislabeling Rand's effect on people.  We see numerous examples of Rand affecting people with what we assume is his ta'veren nature, but what if it's not that but a form of compulsion using the TP?  

 

Another query for everyone out there addressing Rand's 'madness.'  When Semi is captured in KoD, she addresses Rand's madness, and discusses the voice that Rand hears.  She mentions that the voice being a real person makes the situation even more dire, and even Graendal has trouble treating patients that are afflicted with that condition.  

 

Now, the question is:  When did Graendal ever treat someone with a form of madness that didn't appear until after she was sealed in the bore?  Was Semi lying, or is Rand's condition something that actually appeared in the Age of Legends, and maybe only affects important people in the turning of the wheel?  I'd assume we can conclude that Rand achieved 'reintegration' at the end of TGS when Lews Therin's voice vanishes, so I'd say that lends weight to her telling the truth.  

 

Thoughts?  

 

[Eleint]

Just out of curiousity, might Rand have been channeling the True Power earlier than we expected?  We all assume that Rand's connection to the TP begain with the scene in SL, but perhaps it began earlier than that.  Towards that, I've been wondering if we've been mislabeling Rand's effect on people.  We see numerous examples of Rand affecting people with what we assume is his ta'veren nature, but what if it's not that but a form of compulsion using the TP?

 

BS said explicitly that Tuon's wanting to do what Rand said was ta'veren and not TP, so that one at least was not TP compulsion.  With that most strong version not compulsion, the others are unlikely to be.

 

Also, using the TP creates great joy.  We haven't seen any sort of orgasmic joy from him when the ta'veren stuff pops up.  Not to mention Mat and Perrin have done it as well, though not as much as Rand.

[Emily_Sedai]

True, but Rand didn't really react with joy after using the TP in TGS...  but thank you for the clarification from BS. 

 

We also know that with Rand 'curing' himself of Lews Therin's voice at the end of TGS, that the voice was never caused by the madness associated with channeling Saidin (because that can't be healed.)  So, what caused it? 

[Sharaman]

Howdy all,

 

Just a few thoughts I was wondering about tonight...  I was following the thread early on, but haven't had time to read up recently, so I apologize if this has been discussed previously or on another thread.  

 

Just out of curiousity, might Rand have been channeling the True Power earlier than we expected?  We all assume that Rand's connection to the TP begain with the scene in SL, but perhaps it began earlier than that.  Towards that, I've been wondering if we've been mislabeling Rand's effect on people.  We see numerous examples of Rand affecting people with what we assume is his ta'veren nature, but what if it's not that but a form of compulsion using the TP?  

 

Another query for everyone out there addressing Rand's 'madness.'  When Semi is captured in KoD, she addresses Rand's madness, and discusses the voice that Rand hears.  She mentions that the voice being a real person makes the situation even more dire, and even Graendal has trouble treating patients that are afflicted with that condition.  

 

Now, the question is:  When did Graendal ever treat someone with a form of madness that didn't appear until after she was sealed in the bore?  Was Semi lying, or is Rand's condition something that actually appeared in the Age of Legends, and maybe only affects important people in the turning of the wheel?  I'd assume we can conclude that Rand achieved 'reintegration' at the end of TGS when Lews Therin's voice vanishes, so I'd say that lends weight to her telling the truth.  

 

Thoughts?  

 

 

The madness is plain madness. It's caused by the taint but the manifestations are that of "normal" insanity, which Graen had experience in treating. But even Graendal's skills as an AoL shrink were stretched once insanity progressed to the point when auditory hallucinations started. It didn't make reintegrating personality any easier regardless of whether the voice was real.

At least that's my reading.

He did react with semi-orgasmic pleasure to holding the TP. (Why does that always make me think of loos?)

 

[StrangeCat]

Don't have time to be on these forums a lot or read all the posts.  I am pretty sure that what Brandon is refering to is The Watcher. 

At least that's what I think.

 

[SimpleJo]

Now, the question is:  When did Graendal ever treat someone with a form of madness that didn't appear until after she was sealed in the bore?  Was Semi lying, or is Rand's condition something that actually appeared in the Age of Legends, and maybe only affects important people in the turning of the wheel?  I'd assume we can conclude that Rand achieved 'reintegration' at the end of TGS when Lews Therin's voice vanishes, so I'd say that lends weight to her telling the truth.

Emily_Sedai has it right as far as I see.  Semiharge was not lying.  She was just trying to hint that she knew that in Rand's case that he is Lews Therin so the voice is real in the way that it is actually some form of manifistation of his soul not just a run of the mill voice in the head.

 

Interestingly, when Callandor was made the Aes Sedai had a way to roughly guage the level of taint in a male channeller.  I had always thought the reason why there was no "buffer" to Callander was the fact that it was made with females and a male that was lightly affected by the taint.  Where the Eye of the World required the death of all the channellers to remain pure.  Rand has this memory about Callandor via the columns in Rhuidean.