The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[yoniy0]

Hmm...

According to Encyclopedia-WoT the dice in Mats Head came in in tFoH (i.e. Book 5)

 

# Mat decides that he really is going to leave. He goes to Rand's tent to tell him and winds up analyzing the next day's battle plan with Lan. He feels the dice rattling for the first time. (TFoH,Ch42)

I will fish out the quote later.  He heard them in Tear in The Dragon Reborn for sure, and I'm thinking maybe in Tar Valon as well.  The Encyclopaedia isn't always right.  Though I suppose I'll email them later when I dig up the quote...

 

TDR for sure. At the end of chapter 52, just after leaving Thom sick with that wise woman:

"With a laugh that made even the sullen folk in the street look at him, he headed back for The White Crescent, uncaring of mud or the damp heat. He could feel the dice tumbling inside his head."

That's the first time, though. He had strange luck in TV, but no dice in his head until then. I guess it could be argued that those aren't the same dice, just him feeling his luck, but I think that's stretching possibility...

 

[Graendals favourite]

No, Mat felt the dice already in Tar Valon, during that night of winning every toss. I am fairly certain. I am trying to tie that to the connection with the ruby, which would explain RJ's comment that it is indeed very close to the truth that Mat's luck is the Dark One's own luck (hmm, perhaps that's nonsensical).

[Dunedain Fal]

I think it might be the way Trollocs transported themselves to the Aiel Waste.  How did they make it all the way to Imre Stand without crossing any Aiel scouts?  It might reveal a way for the shadowspawn to travel among Randland.

[Sid]

the quote mentions book 4 and 6, and later someone else posted "4-6".  If it is something that appears in both 4 and 6 but not 5, that might narrow things down a bit.  For instance, Perrin and his people from the Two Rivers are prominent in tSR, and appear again in LoC, but are barely even mentioned in tFoH.  Could be anyone or anything mentioned there, including Verin and Alanna, etc.

[analyticalkeys]

the quote mentions book 4 and 6, and later someone else posted "4-6".  If it is something that appears in both 4 and 6 but not 5, that might narrow things down a bit.  For instance, Perrin and his people from the Two Rivers are prominent in tSR, and appear again in LoC, but are barely even mentioned in tFoH.  Could be anyone or anything mentioned there, including Verin and Alanna, etc.

 

Brandon answered a few questions about this idea.. always saying 4-6.

[yoniy0]

No, Mat felt the dice already in Tar Valon, during that night of winning every toss. I am fairly certain.

 

You can double check me if you insist, but according to a search I did (right before I posted), that was the first time right there in Tear (he did feel a gambling fever that night in TV, but that's not the same as dice in his head, and I rather think his poor health was responsible for that one). Still, your theory might hold. I'm not sure how much time passed from his Healing until he arrived at Tear, but it couldn't be too long.

[frankie44]

What about Perin and the wolf king and the hammer!

It has been mentioned from book 4 when Verin asked him when he was going to trade the axe for the hammer. From then on it has arisen again and aging. The hammer fought to appear in the world of dreams when he wanted the axe. The sachaen all seem to know something we do not about the prophecy. Even Bregitta and Hopper made reference to it in the world of dreams. I think even Tom has made reference to it but each time Perin has dismissed it and the subject was dropped. Jordan has never reviled this prophecy. Will it turn out to be a big deal in the story to come I think so!

[Terez]

No, Mat felt the dice already in Tar Valon, during that night of winning every toss. I am fairly certain.

 

You can double check me if you insist, but according to a search I did (right before I posted), that was the first time right there in Tear (he did feel a gambling fever that night in TV, but that's not the same as dice in his head, and I rather think his poor health was responsible for that one). Still, your theory might hold. I'm not sure how much time passed from his Healing until he arrived at Tear, but it couldn't be too long.

Nope, the quote from above was from book 3, so it's not the dice.

[lillcheese]

Could someone explain exactly what significance the thing has in Mistborn?  I understand not wanting to be spoilery, but i don't feel like slogging through however many books (good as they may be) just to understand what kind of detail I should be looking for.

 

also,

 

After reading the list, I was wondering if we weren't looking at Mat's experience backwards.  Maybe the question isn't the Ashandorai, it's the price the Finns set. 

 

Were the Finns trying to kill Mat when they hanged him?  It seems counter productive if the Ael & Eel are working together.  (Presumably) the Snakes siphon off experiences from a person for the rest of their life.  Why would the Foxes counter that by killing Mat and ending his usefulness to the Snakes?  Of course, that assumes that the Snakes & Foxes work together in some way.  Maybe the detail is that they are enemies. 

 

If the Foxes were trying to kill Mat, why didn't they just stabby stab him? Perhaps part of the contract they have with the world of men is that they can't make someone bleed?  Why didn't they stay out there, watch him hang and take his carcass? 

 

Also, why did it take so long for them to put him out?  It was 7 days later, but the experience in Tear was a few hours at most.  An hour or two earlier and Mat would have been dead for certain.  Of course, thinking back to Mat's statements about the "Old Bili" legend of getting three wishes and finding 10 years had passed, maybe that's covered.

 

K, I think I'm obsessed with those Finn people. Yell at me if this has been discussed a lot.

[Loreina]

In tSR, Moggy tells Nyneave the drawbacks of the male a'dam. As she describes two women wearing the bracelets to share the burden of the taint, she mentions that the two women would have to trust each other very much. That would be Aviendha and Elayne, as 'sisters" and Rand's bondeds. Maybe that will be the only way Rand will be able to stay sane long enough to reseal the Dark One. Elayne makes ter'angreal, maybe she can improve on the function? Yes, I know people have speculated about it's use on Rand vis-s-vis the Seanchan, and tGS proved an 'ordinary' channeler couldn't hold him with it, but I don't remember anyone ever discussing it's voluntary use in the Last Battle, with Aviendha and Elayne wearing the bracelets? 

 

 

[analyticalkeys]

Could someone explain exactly what significance the thing has in Mistborn?  I understand not wanting to be spoilery, but i don't feel like slogging through however many books (good as they may be) just to understand what kind of detail I should be looking for.?

 

It's basically a very small detail, that's mentioned several times throughout the book, and you would never think it's anything more than it's shown as, but then all of the sudden becomes something very important, and there's no way you would've ever expected it.

[lillcheese]

Could someone explain exactly what significance the thing has in Mistborn?  I understand not wanting to be spoilery, but i don't feel like slogging through however many books (good as they may be) just to understand what kind of detail I should be looking for.?

 

It's basically a very small detail, that's mentioned several times throughout the book, and you would never think it's anything more than it's shown as, but then all of the sudden becomes something very important, and there's no way you would've ever expected it.

 

Okay, but I thought someone's post implied that the thing DID impact the character along the way, but perhaps no one attributed it to the thing.

 

If there's no way we could ever expect it, is this discussion pointless?

[analyticalkeys]

It's basically a very small detail, that's mentioned several times throughout the book, and you would never think it's anything more than it's shown as, but then all of the sudden becomes something very important, and there's no way you would've ever expected it.

 

Okay, but I thought someone's post implied that the thing DID impact the character along the way, but perhaps no one attributed it to the thing.

 

If there's no way we could ever expect it, is this discussion pointless?

 

Well, it does effect the character in a way.. but in a completely different way than it does at the end. Honestly though, this discussion is pointless in it's own way anyway.. it's only speculation, there's no way we're going to know if any of our ideas are correct until the book comes out anyway. It's just fun to think about these things since we have such a long wait.

[sdelu]

Could someone explain exactly what significance the thing has in Mistborn?  I understand not wanting to be spoilery, but i don't feel like slogging through however many books (good as they may be) just to understand what kind of detail I should be looking for.

 

MISTBORN SPOILER: (this will spoiler the trilogy completely. copy and paste and increase the font size at your own risk.)

 

very early in the series, Vin mentions that the only thing she has from her mother is the earring she is wearing. The "bad guys" (Inquisitors) in the series are controlled by a magic known as Hemalurgy, which is essentially metal spikes slammed through their bodies. This allows Ruin (the "Dark One" of the series) to control people. Vin, specifically, he controls by being the voice of her brother in her head. We see at the end of book 1 when Vin loses her earring she is able to draw on the "mist" (aka Preservation -- don't worry about the details ;p), then again at the end of the series when the earring is pulled from her she becomes Preservation (the "Creator"). In the meanwhile, she is not able to tap this power because of her link to Ruin. In short, the "throwaway detail" from book one of the earring is what led Vin to be controlled by Ruin the entire series via Hemalurgy. There are plenty of other events impacted by this, and many other hints, but this is the basic idea.

 

 

So, it was a very small detail that made a heck of a lot of sense once you figured it out, and there were certainly plenty of clues TO figure it out.

 

 

 

[somathus]

What about Perin and the wolf king and the hammer!

It has been mentioned from book 4 when Verin asked him when he was going to trade the axe for the hammer. From then on it has arisen again and aging. The hammer fought to appear in the world of dreams when he wanted the axe. The sachaen all seem to know something we do not about the prophecy. Even Bregitta and Hopper made reference to it in the world of dreams. I think even Tom has made reference to it but each time Perin has dismissed it and the subject was dropped. Jordan has never reviled this prophecy. Will it turn out to be a big deal in the story to come I think so!

It was supposedly a small detail.  The Wolf King and his hammer are a fairly major plot point.

[Mr Ares]

I don't know if this has been said before, I'm new here and haven't read through everything, and I don't know if this is from the proper book range, but the key to the whole series to me has been that Rand is the Fisher (the game piece was modeled from an ancient version of the Dragon).

The Fisher was introduced in book 8.

 

What about Perin and the wolf king and the hammer!

But that's been dealt with. There's not a lot of discussion on it these days because he gave up the axe for the hammer in book 10. Also, mentioned before Verin, in book 3 at least: "and what was important about him choosing between that axe he wore now and a blacksmith's hammer" TDR 48.

 

In tSR, Moggy tells Nyneave the drawbacks of the male a'dam. As she describes two women wearing the bracelets to share the burden of the taint, she mentions that the two women would have to trust each other very much. That would be Aviendha and Elayne, as 'sisters" and Rand's bondeds. Maybe that will be the only way Rand will be able to stay sane long enough to reseal the Dark One. Elayne makes ter'angreal, maybe she can improve on the function? Yes, I know people have speculated about it's use on Rand vis-s-vis the Seanchan, and tGS proved an 'ordinary' channeler couldn't hold him with it, but I don't remember anyone ever discussing it's voluntary use in the Last Battle, with Aviendha and Elayne wearing the bracelets?

Why on earth would Rand subject himself to that? Also, Elayne is having difficulty Channeling these days, so her making new ter'angreal is probably a bit of a non starter.

[Graendals favourite]

No, Mat felt the dice already in Tar Valon, during that night of winning every toss. I am fairly certain.

 

You can double check me if you insist, but according to a search I did (right before I posted), that was the first time right there in Tear (he did feel a gambling fever that night in TV, but that's not the same as dice in his head, and I rather think his poor health was responsible for that one). Still, your theory might hold. I'm not sure how much time passed from his Healing until he arrived at Tear, but it couldn't be too long.

Ah yes, it was the gambling fever and luck but not the dice, they are indeed different.

[NetSlider]

I don't know if this has been said before, I'm new here and haven't read through everything, and I don't know if this is from the proper book range, but the key to the whole series to me has been that Rand is the Fisher (the game piece was modeled from an ancient version of the Dragon).

 

At the end of this most recent work, he has nearly finished his physical transformation into the game piece--the worn cloak, the missing hand, the staff, all that is required is for him to have problems with his eyes, which we know already started a book or two ago, the Seanchan Empress says he will go blind before he will submit and the last battle begins, and the end of the book discusses a scrap of prophecy about his blindness (raising the question as to whether he actually has to go physically blind or whether the blindness was a spiritual one).

 

If you view Rand as the Fisher, the theme of control makes perfect sense; he is constantly struggling against being a game piece in the neverending cosmic struggle, yet he is constantly trying to be captured and used in the game; and, so of course, the Dark One does not want to kill him--that's not how you win the game; you win the game by using and controlling the Fisher.

 

The answer to this question is very simple. You see, the DO is the CREATOR. :)

[Loreina]

Why on earth would Rand subject himself to that? Also, Elayne is having difficulty Channeling these days, so her making new ter'angreal is probably a bit of a non starter.

 

As I said, they could help him bear the taint. He says over and over again that he will do whatever he has to do to defeat the Dark One. Plus the tGS incident reassures him to some extent, since he knows he can break free of it if he has to. But being held by two of the three people he loves and trusts most in the world shouldn't bother him. And let's face it - he's gonna need a lot of help by the time the LB rolls around.  

Pregnancy doesn't last forever. She should be having those kids soon. RJ wouldn't create such an important character only to sideline her at the end. Nor did I say she would make it, though I think she could; I said she could improve it in some way, maybe to make it more acceptable to him. Maybe it's objective would not be control but a blending of saidar and saidin.

There's also a viewing or 'dream' of Egwene's that mentions Rand and that something can happen only after the 'three become one'. The three become one through the use of the a'dam with two bracelets instead of just one.

 

 

[clu7ch]

The taint is gone. what remains is the effects of the taint. The sickness is just what he gets (presumably) from his massive usage of the power in the past.

[Mr Ares]

Why on earth would Rand subject himself to that? Also, Elayne is having difficulty Channeling these days, so her making new ter'angreal is probably a bit of a non starter.

As I said, they could help him bear the taint. He says over and over again that he will do whatever he has to do to defeat the Dark One. Plus the tGS incident reassures him to some extent, since he knows he can break free of it if he has to. But being held by two of the three people he loves and trusts most in the world shouldn't bother him. And let's face it - he's gonna need a lot of help by the time the LB rolls around.

How will it help him bear the taint? Also, to get out he needs the TP. That's not good, and something I doubt he'll be doing again if he can help it. And being controlled completely, not just his Channeling but his physical actions, that would bother anyone, no matter how much he trusts them. And needing help and needing to be controlled are not the same thing. In fact, trying to control Rand has rarely helped things, has it?

Pregnancy doesn't last forever. She should be having those kids soon. RJ wouldn't create such an important character only to sideline her at the end. Nor did I say she would make it, though I think she could; I said she could improve it in some way, maybe to make it more acceptable to him. Maybe it's objective would not be control but a blending of saidar and saidin.

Why not just link, if you want to use saidar and saidin? How does the Domination Band help? We don't know how long Elayne has left of her pregnancy, nor how long remains until TG. A character need not be Channeling to play a part in the finale, so her being unable does not mean she's sidelined. And she can't improve it if she can't Channel, there's no reason to improve it anyway, nor any to use it.

[Loreina]

Yes, it's gone from the Source, I know. Sorry for not being more specific and assuming understanding. But Rand remains 'tainted'. Call it sickness or illness, but it's the accumulated effects of the taint from before the cleansing. He's 'corrupted' by it if you prefer that to tainted. He bears the taint of the Dark One from using the Source before it was cleansed, the taint of Shadar Logoth from Padan Fain's wound, and what ever else I may have missed. I'm only working on my third reread here. Point is, he needs some help. And there must be a reason why he needed to bind these women to him in bonds stronger than just a Warder bond. Beside comic relief that is.

How will it help him bear the taint? Also, to get out he needs the TP. That's not good, and something I doubt he'll be doing again if he can help it. And being controlled completely, not just his Channeling but his physical actions, that would bother anyone, no matter how much he trusts them. And needing help and needing to be controlled are not the same thing. In fact, trying to control Rand has rarely helped things, has it?

A burden shared, additional strength, something like that. And he will use what he must. Also, just because it's original purpose was domination, doesn't mean it can't be repurposed. Controlling physical actions, at least to some extent, may be precisely why he does decides to use it. He may need help walking by then. And I never said they would be 'controlling' him with it. The way it works according to Moggy is he could feasibly be drawing power from them. Also, it would be a physical link more dificult to break that just a mental link maybe? Well that's my suggestion. You don't have to like it. Nuff said. Makes better sense than Mat's Hat, imo.

[havoc110]

OK, now this is significant, LTT being in Rand's head, but can it be construed as insignificant how and when LTT first appears?

 

Nobody has mentioned LTT's "first appearance".  I don't know if that's disqualified because it's been talked about to death, but it hasn't been on the threads that I troll, err... lurk, err... read.

 

If not, then how about Stasis boxes.  Sammy had one.  Graendal had one.  (does this mean she had 2?)

[Sentinel78]

Unless I missed something, the very first time LTT's memories started to seep into Rand was in the Stone of Tear when Rand was talking to Lanfear, right before the Trolloc attack on the Stone.  Specifically:

 

“Kill you?” she spat incredulously. “Kill you! I mean to have you, forever. You were mine long before that pale-haired milksop stole you. Before she ever saw you. You loved me!”

 

“And you loved power!” For a moment he felt dazed. The words sounded true - he knew they were true - but where had they come from?

 

I never read Mistborn, [spoilers in this paragraph] but from the spoiler someone posted above in small-font (thanks for that), it is fair to say that a voice in an important character's head (Vin) originated from a source that was only made clear at the end of the series, despite hints along the way.  Once the causation of this voice was known, the important character was able to harness her full powers.

 

It's curious that LTT's memories begin seeping into Rand days after drawing Callandor... Could this timing be coincidental with the true cause being the taint?  Sure.  But it's curious.  Could Callandor have something to do with the memories in Rand's head?

 

Callandor is just odd.. 'Allegedly' made during the War of Power.  Only sa'angreal formed in the shape of a weapon. In the Rhuidean-column memories in Book 4, the surviving Aes Sedai during the Breaking have Callandor and only rank forming the Eye of the World over its importance.  Later, the Stone of Tear is constructed mainly to keep Callandor safe...   

 

[havoc110]

Even if you go back to TSR ch. 10, and the "Now" in Rand's head, both Lanfear and Callandor are present.

 

hmm....

 

Callandor was the key to LTT's arrival AND Lanfear knew it.  Conjecture at this point, but promising.

 

She HAS to know.  In all her incarnations, she's getting Rand at Callandor, so she can have another chance at LTT.