The Fighters Thread Reborn ...

[DaShain]

I am going to get crucified for this, I just know it.

 

I have recently returned to this site after an absence of something like two or three years. I'm liking the new design, and have been rereading the books recently, and figured I'd check out the old digs. So hello to everyone.

 

Anyway, back when I was a young, naive member, I used to believe that there was really only one pertinent question to be asked on these forums:

 

Who is the best fighter?

 

I have browsed the list of topics, and to my shock and dismay, found that no current thread deals with this all-important dilemma. And so, I must bring the age-old query before this esteemed board once more.

 

Who wins in a no-holds-barred, bare-knuckle, physical brawl? None of that pansy One Power in this fight. Just fist, feet, blades, spears, cudgels, axes, knives, bows, crossbows, and the occasional ashandarei.

 

Bear in mind that creatures like the Gholam and Shaidar Haran, whose physical prowess seem to stem mostly from the Dark One and his minions' tinkering, are left off this list.

[MetalMonkeyMood]

Mat would win, you didn't say anything about luck not being allowed :D

[Barnabas]

considering weapons are allowed and the one power isnt, wouldnt birgitte have to win by default? not because i think shes the best fighter but cos shes very quick with the bow so the other would be dead before they even closed with her? in terms of skill though i would have to say it would be close call between lan, rhuarc and gawyn, i can say of the three i think gawyn would be last, but not sure of the other two

[Pevin]

I'm going with experience on this one, which narrowed it down to Lan or Rhuarc. I ended up voting for Rhuarc because I think he would be the best at putting emotion aside and getting down to the business at hand. Plus he has nothing to live for anyway--life is just a dream that everyone must wake from--whereas Lan as become enmeshed by love.

 

Skill wise, Lan and Rhuarc are probably about equal, but I think Rhuarc has the mental/emotional advantage. Plus Rhuarc has probably done more fighting since Lan has spent so much of his life following Moirane around.

[Gondring]

I started with Rhurac, thinking Aeil oo good. Then to Perrin thinking, one punch and the fight is his. Then to Mat thinking hed be lucky/have flashbakcs to avoid the punches. Then Lan... Definatly Lan, King, Warder, all around kick rear guy.

I dont think Mat is that lucky.

[Jedimuppet]

I started with Rhurac' date=' thinking Aeil oo good. Then to Perrin thinking, one punch and the fight is his. Then to Mat thinking hed be lucky/have flashbakcs to avoid the punches. Then Lan... Definatly Lan, King, Warder, all around kick rear guy.

I dont think Mat is that lucky.[/quote']

 

If you disregard special non physical abilities, I think the only choice is Lan or Rhuarc. I think pains were taken to demostrate their overall equality throughout the book, but my money would be on Lan.

 

I don't think he got soft following Moiraine aroud, quite the opposite.

J

[chuckievi]

I voted for Lan, but on a technicality. I have to agree with Barnabas. No one is good enough to dodge arrows when B is firing them at you fast and with her aim. That being said I think the best FIGHTER is Lan. Rhuarc comes in a close second for me and Rand is right up there (before he loses his hand of course). Oh and Pevin, Rhuarc has TWO wives, that mans ears have to be constantly ringing from all the talking he has to hear, not to mention Amys isn't exactly quiet and meek. Most men have to concentrate hard enough to not go afoul with one wife, I can't even imagine two. /shudder

[Covenant]

It would come down to Brigette and Mat, because they would be trying to pick people off with their respective bows. Then Brigette would take out Mat as they faced off because he would hesitate to shoot another woman, particularly a friend.

[TheDiceAgain...]

My first instinct to go with Lan for the simple reason that he has been fighting the Shadow his whole life and he's still alive which has got to count for something.

 

I eventually chose Mat though. Why? Because he's the only one on the list who has managed to dump two of the other list members on their sissy little back sides at the same damn time(Gawyn and Galad in the WT). And, oh by the way, he did it while still weak from his ordeal with the Shadar Logoth dagger and with a simple quarterstaff, not even his ashandarei.

[Word]

I also voted for Matt based on the fact that he defeated Gawyn and Galad handily WHILE sick. Both of those two are extremely good fighters, Galad is technically a blademaster now due to the fact that he killed Eamon Valda. What I can't understand is how people voted for Perrin. The only reason Perrin didn't die to Aram was because of an aiel arrow. Are you going to tell me you think Aram is better with a sword than Rand, Lan, Galad, and Gawyn? I think Perrin is the weakest on the list. If I were to rank them I would probably go...

 

Mat

Lan

Rand

Rhuarc

Galad

Tam

Gawyn

Perrin

 

I'm not going to include Birgitee because she fights with a bow, and using ranged as a reason is just stupid. Besides, who is to say that Perrin, Rand, Tam, and Mat aren't as good with a bow as her, remember two rivers bowman rock your socks off.

 

I notice that the people who picked Perrin didn't post their comments, if possible can you please give me some sort of insight into your mind? Also, the reason I put Lan above Rand is because when Rand fought Toram Riatin in CoS, at the end of their battle he was mostly defending and I think that there is a good chance he would not have won. Lan kills Toram pretty quickly in Winter's Heart, so therefore Lan > Rand.

[Jorik Alarin]

This is a tough bill, and i voted Rand; heres why...when we look at the conflicts Rand has been in physically he has always been at a disadvantage (well at least since book two), that wound in his side i feel keeps him from performing at his real capabilities; so when we see rand engage in sword play he is already hurt and hurt badly. Now in this style fight i would surely give the edge to Lan, but if you were to take away that wound...boy howdy i think Rands youth strength speed and endurance would pay out over Lan experience and knowledge. As far as Birgitte she is supposedly without question the finest archer ever to have lived, and im not doubting her marksmanship, but could she even draw a two rivers longbow? They dont call them great clubs for no reason, it probably requires a great deal of upper body strength to draw and fire those bows, and if she was armed with a bow built for her, i would say that the two rivers long bow would have a greater range. And we know what Rand can do with the void and flame (Grolm from book 2). As far as Perrin goes he has ferocity and anger on his side which makes him a fearsom opponent, unless you are skilled at dueling, so he would lose straight up to most any of the trained swordsmen here. Gawyn would probably let his anger get the better of him and make a mistake. Rand by this point in the series is a rather cold blooded killer, i dont think he gets riled up for anything (except maybe when his women are in danger) Galad knows that Rand didnt kill Morgase, and would fight with cool precision and might be able to best Rand on technical merit, but i still have to give the edge to Rand, Galad is the White Knight, Rand just wants to win, and would do most anything to do it. And last Matt, Matt wouldnt fight, he doesnt like fighting, he avoids it when he can. If push came to shove and he had to fight he would be a tough match for any of them he did beat couladin after all, but the edge is still Rand's simply because of drive. Rand cannot accept failure and has become ruthless hard and cold about achieving his goals, he has what i would call "the killer" instinct. Thats why in a purely physical fight i still think he would come out on top.

 

Just my opinion.

[DaShain]

Well, glad to see the thread didn't get bombarded with "OMG stupid topic" like I expected it to. There is hope!

 

I myself am of the opinion that Mat would be the ultimate victor in, say, a tournament involving these people. (WoT Kombat, anyone?) He has several lifetimes' worth of experience in virtually every weapon, blindingly fast hands (he plucks thrown daggers out of the air without even thinking), and, of course, battle luck. I was actually including luck or ta'veren-ness in each character's overall badass factor. Most of the characters up there are ta'veren to some extent (Lan is a minor one, at least going by New Spring, and considering the events the others have sparked they're all candidates, though not as powerful ones as the tripod, of course). Rand is obviously the strongest ta'veren, but Mat's luck/ta'veren combo seems to work in his favor more than anyone else's.

 

I admit, putting Birgitte on this list was probably a mistake. However, this is assuming relatively close quarters. This isn't a wide open field the two combatants must cross to each other. And Mat, at least, is perfectly capable of throwing knives at Birgitte to possibly kill her and/or disrupt her aim. I don't think she'd be as much of a dominator as everyone else seems to.

 

Perrin, IMO, is a very strong fighter. First of all, he's a front-liner (he's charged straight into overwhelming odds at least twice that I can think of), which means that he's very good both at surviving and at simply going in for the kill. Second, he's immensely strong; blocking or deflecting blows from him, especially since his weapons of choice are hammer and axe, would be much harder. Third, he's fricking creepy when he fights. He snarls, growls, his eyes glow ... the works. Granted, the other fighters wouldn't simply run away, but I still think it would have an effect.

 

Against Aram, you have to factor in that he was tired, wounded already, and was being betrayed by someone whom he considered to be on his side still. Anyone would likely be caught off-guard like that, even Lan. And considering that Aram was actually supposed to be nigh-blademaster level, I'd say the fact that he survived the doublecross at all is to his credit.

[Guest Harso]

I vote Lord Orban, the hunter perrin meets in tDR. Him, lord Gann and ten retainers fought twenty Aiel, lost six retainers, and killed all the aiel, save those who fled. Yes I know he's spinning a tale.

 

edit: I forgot, he captured gaul too.

[Mashiara]

Mat would win, just because Mat is friggin awesome...

[Genesis_XVI]

I disagree with Barnabas' assertion that Gawyn is ranked third in skill. Yes... he did kill fat Hammer... but he is definitley no match for Galad. Galad and Gawyn combined are no match for Mat. Perrin is a pussy, so Mat would stomp on him. Rand has turned himself into a weapon, learning all styles of hand to hand and swordmanship, so he would beat the crap out of Mat, who, while good with a quarterstaff style weapon would be thoroghly beaten. Rand is no match for either of his instructors, which leaves Rhuarc or Lan to battle it out. And I can't split it. Maybe Lan just. He has less to live for than Rhuarc (who has two wives and children, as well as a tribe and clan; whereas Lan has a wife, an unwinnable battle and the death sentence of a destroyed bond). But I do agree that RJ has made a concerted effort to display them both as the epitome of warrior deadliness, honour and skill.

 

:)

 

Genesis_XVI

 

I like this thread.

 

PS- I didn't factor in projectile weapons. Tam and Birgitte with bows. Mat and Tom with knives. Perrin with his flower power, pussy, no can do attitude. (I don't dislike Perrin, I'm just giving his deathly prowess a beating.)

[Barnabas]

fair point, when i was thinking gawyn i was thinking along the lines of warders he killed, and aiel hes fought with younglings, but ill accept rands better, going by comments and stuff though, im not sure if galads better or not, would be an interesting fight though. also, i ended up voting for lan out of him and rhuarc

[wtfv]

I disagree with Barnabas' assertion that Gawyn is ranked third in skill. Yes... he did kill fat Hammer... but he is definitley no match for Galad. Galad and Gawyn combined are no match for Mat. Perrin is a pussy' date=' so Mat would stomp on him. Rand has turned himself into a weapon, learning all styles of hand to hand and swordmanship, so he would beat the crap out of Mat, who, while good with a quarterstaff style weapon would be thoroghly beaten. Rand is no match for either of his instructors, which leaves Rhuarc or Lan to battle it out. And I can't split it. Maybe Lan just. He has less to live for than Rhuarc (who has two wives and children, as well as a tribe and clan; whereas Lan has a wife, an unwinnable battle and the death sentence of a destroyed bond). But I do agree that RJ has made a concerted effort to display them both as the epitome of warrior deadliness, honour and skill.

[/quote']

 

I almost totally agree with you.

 

I believe that if someone between Mat and Rand should be the better fighter, that would be Mat, not Rand.

That's because Mat has the memories of hundreds fighters inside him. And in a battle experience is as important as hability. So, besides being a very skilled fighter, Mat also has a lot of experience wich Rand lacks.

 

But, I think that Lan and Rhuarc are capable of beating him, cause both are excelent fighters and have a lot of experience.

[Timewalker]

I say Tam. I mean, come on. He's barely fought in the series. To be a Blademaster you have to be good, and he has fought in at least two wars against Tear and in the Aiel war. Plus, to find Rand on Dragonmount, that means he was right in the midst of the battle against the Aiel, as I believe they stated that most of the Aiel was near Tar Valon and only a few were at Cairhien to kill Laman. I believe we have just seen a fraction of his ability, and he'll be quite important in the Last Battle.

[AtheistMonk]

Mat, he would just throw knives rapidly. Knives are much more effective than bows at the short ranges specified. And then he'd pimpslap the others still standing with his Ashandarei, like he did to Galad and Gawyn. However, Perrin vs. Mat might be hard - an axe is a VERY effective weapon close range vs. a spear, much more so than a sword.

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

Bel'al. He ironically herded Rand like a sheep, who happens to be a shepherd, with ease towards his own trap, even when at that point he has killed another Blademaster. He talked casually, and alot while he fought him. Rand truly was helpless in his hands. The only frustration Rand was causing Bel'al during that fight was that he wasn't trying to take callandor as quickly as he thought he would. What'd he do about that? He herded Rand closer, made his fight seem even more desperate.

 

Bel'al could have easily struck Rand down like an ant, the only reason he didn't was because of Callandor, and the untimely balefire from Moiraine.

[Old Skool]

Rand would whoop ass. He would Sh** all over Lan and Rhuarc, he is young and at the peak of his athleticism, and has advanced really far since he used to practice with his old trainers.

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

Rand would whoop bunny. He would Sh** all over Lan and Rhuarc' date=' he is young and at the peak of his athleticism, and has advanced really far since he used to practice with his old trainers.[/quote']

 

Yet he still isn't even close to bridging the colossal chasm that puts Bel'al above him in skill.

[merlinspetrock]

I didnt read the whole thread. Hands down Lan is probably the most deadly. BUT, But if you factor in usefulness and enhanced abilities, I would go with Mat. Lan has out lived his usefulness in the series so far. He has not been mentioned as necessary to the last battle. There is no reason to discount Mats luck. It is important for him to reach TG. He is needed to command the armies at the LB. Perrin is needed to throw his ferocity and encourage others to fight as ferociously as he does. So if RJ added a fight between these folks, Lan would lose. All the added this and thats mean garbage. Its not a one on one fight, there are three main people who need to make it to TG and the pattern would make sure they win against any of these better fighters in a one on one. Lan might be the best, but he is only available as long as he is needed to help the others reach the goal.

 

Without the Last Battle in mind, Lan would kill them all, except for maybe Rand. Something in my head tells me Rand would fight Lan without using the one power, which would most likely get him killed. Lan is not the two master swordsman Gawane killed, he is much better. If Gawane had to fight Lan during the battle of the WT he would be dead now. He is good, but he isnt as good as Galad, and Rand is better than both of them, with Lan being better than Rand. Remember that Galad had years of training before he killd Eamon Valdor and Rand killed his first blade master with only about a year of training, and he has only gotten better since then.

 

I'd like to see Gawane or Galad fight Toram. Just to see how they stacked up. Rand blew that fight not due to inexperience (IMO), but due to distraction. He had Min and all the sisters around to worry about even if it was practice blades.

[okstate91]

hands down lan. maybe briggite, depending on starting distance.

[DaShain]

Yet he still isn't even close to bridging the colossal chasm that puts Bel'al above him in skill.

 

I would disagree with that. Rand has certainly improved by leaps and bounds over the course of the books, as well as becoming more and more deadly outside of blademaster training. Be'lal learned the sword when it was still a game, and while it translates very well into actual combat, my guess would be that Be'lal's training prevents him from fighting dirty. It's the same thing that people used to say about Galad; he's too focused on rules, he's too much of a goody-two-shoes to fight to win instead of fighting the right way. Be'lal, while obviously not a goody-two-shoes, has never, EVER needed to actually survive on his physical skill in a fight; he learned the sword as a hobby, and both he and Lews Therin fought mostly with the One Power. So I would argue that Rand may still not be as good a blademaster, but would certainly give Be'lal a run for his money at this point. Especially if he wasn't half-crazed and exhausted from constant travel/climbing a virtually sheer rock face.