Verin (Full Book Spoilers)

[Luckers]

Keep Black Ajah discussion in the Black Ajah thread. Thanks guys!

 

[goldeneyes05]

lol loved it leave it to rj to both confirm and smash all of our theories at one go

 

and what was in that bloody letter to mat

[jemron]

This has been discussed before, but the popular theory seems to be that Mat's letter talks about the location of the Horn of Valere.  I hope it has some key to freeing Moiraine.  Surely she was given orders as a member of the Black Ajah that were directly in relation to her closeness to Moiraine...  So maybe she knows some things that could help Mat in freeing Moiraine... I dunno, just a thought.

 

If it is the Horn, why wait 10 days?  Is that how long it was going to take Verin to deliver all of her other letters and get to the tower to reveal everything to Egwene?  Maybe she had to get the Horn from the tower and hide it somewhere else (presumably wherever she said it would be hidden in Mat's letter)?  I also wonder if the "wait 10 days thing" was just because she knew she would be dead after 10 days, so whatever she reveals as a member of the BA won't effect her oath, because she knew she would be dead?

 

 

[goldeneyes05]

i think the 10 days thing was to see if she could release herself with the oath rod if she could then she could just bring the horn to mat if not well she had to tell him where it was. or thats my guess.

[jemron]

Yeah, that makes sense to me.  Or, if she did know something about Moiraine, maybe she had hoped to personally help Mat with it, if she could've freed herself from the oath rod as you said.

[goldeneyes05]

maybe so i still a week later feel like my brain has been balefired so i'm still tryin to take it all in.

[Rufae]

It's a shame that if she only waited till the next day, Egwene could have gotten her the Oath Rod to release her from the BA oaths without the need for her death.

 

Oh well, I guess that hindsight is 20/20 since things weren't looking well for Eggy at that time.  :'(

[Haggis]

Hmm if she wants him to stay in the city, perhaps it's about some darkfriends around, or preparing to attack Elayne.

[Nimic]

Verin was always one of my absolute favourite characters, and this book only reinforced that. She's even more awesome than I thought!

 

On the other hand, I quite liked Sheriam as well.

 

I'm a bit hit and miss.

[lillcheese]

How did Verin know Egwene would succeed?  It seems a bit odd to make those revelations to someone locked up in a cell. Verin was going to go visit Egwene there if she had to.  But, why leave your great work with someone who might be executed by Elaida?

 

Or maybe she thought it would help Egwene win, everyone would have to respect the woman who carries the means to destroy the BA. 

[singogreatest360]

How did Verin know Egwene would succeed?  It seems a bit odd to make those revelations to someone locked up in a cell. Verin was going to go visit Egwene there if she had to.  But, why leave your great work with someone who might be executed by Elaida?

 

Or maybe she thought it would help Egwene win, everyone would have to respect the woman who carries the means to destroy the BA. 

 

The best answer is that Egwene is one of the few people Verin knew 100% was not a darkfriend/BA. Imagine centuries of hard work and danger gone to waste because the Sister she gave the notes to calmly set the books on fire and laughed saying she was BA as Verin dies of poison. We see that she did miss a few BA. She also probably thought Egwene was the only one with enough power and sense, even captive, to get a purge under way.

[Muad Cheade]

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that Verin was calling Shai'tan "the Great Lord" when she was talking to Egwene yet every other time prior to that she said "the Dark One."

 

 

[Nightstrike]

Old habits die hard.  :D  Or maybe she just dreaded meeting him in death.  :o

 

 

[kasper11]

How did Verin know Egwene would succeed?  It seems a bit odd to make those revelations to someone locked up in a cell. Verin was going to go visit Egwene there if she had to.  But, why leave your great work with someone who might be executed by Elaida?

 

Or maybe she thought it would help Egwene win, everyone would have to respect the woman who carries the means to destroy the BA. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of prophecy that Verin was aware of involving Egwene.  She knows all sorts of things, such as Perrin and his hammer. 

[Red Hand Man]

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that Verin was calling Shai'tan "the Great Lord" when she was talking to Egwene yet every other time prior to that she said "the Dark One."

 

 

 

Yes, I noticed it as well.  However, only darkfriends refer to him in such a way, before when she was hiding it she couldn't refer to him in that way (it would blow her cover).

[Shard]

Oh speaking of Perrin and the Hammer I remember how it was one of the reasons people felt Verin was BA. So does this mean there is something in Dark Prophecy about Perrin and the Hammer?

[kasper11]

Oh speaking of Perrin and the Hammer I remember how it was one of the reasons people felt Verin was BA. So does this mean there is something in Dark Prophecy about Perrin and the Hammer?

 

Maybe, maybe not.  There was this in KOD, party  of the Karathon Cycle:

"When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known."

[Beren]

Oh speaking of Perrin and the Hammer I remember how it was one of the reasons people felt Verin was BA. So does this mean there is something in Dark Prophecy about Perrin and the Hammer?

 

Maybe, maybe not.  There was this in KOD, party  of the Karathon Cycle:

"When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known."

 

I have my theories that the Seed of the Hammer mentioned in the Dark Prophecy is possibly Perrin. The ancient wrong mentioned would then almost certainly be Slayer. It just as likely refers to the Seanchan though, specifically those directly related to Artur Hawkwing.

 

As to this whole thing with the hammer. Check out Moirain's visit to the Green Ajah quarters in New Spring. One of the hunters that is sent out to find the DR happens to be a green who keeps a blacksmith's hammer with its head split in her quarters. Why on earth would that even be there unless it had serious importance. (and what happened to it after she died) Do we have any views of the Green's quarters in the series itself?

 

 

(and we should keep this discussion to the Perrin's storyline thread)

[mzappala@hotmail.com]

Yeah, that makes sense to me.  Or, if she did know something about Moiraine, maybe she had hoped to personally help Mat with it, if she could've freed herself from the oath rod as you said.

 

What I don't understand is why Egwene didn't just heal her of the poison after Verin divulged the secrets, then arranged for the Black Hunters to hand over the oath rod...?

[csarmi]

1) She has no skill with healing

2) She is under the effects of forkroot

3) She can't call for help because what if some black ajah member learns of it

[MystErikEry]

Yeah, that makes sense to me.  Or, if she did know something about Moiraine, maybe she had hoped to personally help Mat with it, if she could've freed herself from the oath rod as you said.

 

What I don't understand is why Egwene didn't just heal her of the poison after Verin divulged the secrets, then arranged for the Black Hunters to hand over the oath rod...?

 

Why not?

First, she couldn't draw much (if any) of the Power, due to the forkroot.

Second, didn't she have a sister guarding her room?  After all, when someone finally comes to visit her (someone she knows isn't Black) she has to have them pretend to be teaching her a weave from the Aes Sedai trial in order to distract the guard, who sensed the channeling easily and peeked in to check on them.. before Egwene was able to teach that Aes Sedai Traveling.

Third, she didn't know where the Oath Rod was exactly, and it might easily have taken more than an hour to do so.

 

Edit: I just reread the section, and she doesn't have anyone guarding her room at that particular moment.  However, it's only shortly after Verin dies that a guard finally arrives, so if she were to try to slip out to find help, there's a big possibility that a Red Sister could have come to check on her and would find a dying Verin instead.  That has a big possibility of being disastrous, so...

[havoc110]

Old habits die hard.  :D  Or maybe she just dreaded meeting him in death.  :o

 

 

 

I wonder at that.  I wouldn't put it past the DO to bring her back, at the very least to punish her some.  He's got a lot of free time, and I don't think SH puts in a full 40 a week either.

[Sirayn]

This was one of the most shocking and satisfying scenes in the entire series for me. What an amazing sequence. From the moment Verin said "By the way, that dress you are wearing is green", I was completely riveted.

 

For me personally, I wouldn't care even if there are any logic or plot issues. It was still brilliant.

[lillcheese]

If only Egwene hadn't been full of forkroot.  She could have BF Verin to make sure the DO couldn't take her.  Or wait, does Eggy know the weave for that?

 

I choose to believe that a. foiling DO plans brings her back to the light and b. we'll see her again when Mat sounds the Horn.

[Dorkfiend]

Old habits die hard.  :D  Or maybe she just dreaded meeting him in death.  :o

 

 

 

I wonder at that.  I wouldn't put it past the DO to bring her back, at the very least to punish her some.  He's got a lot of free time, and I don't think SH puts in a full 40 a week either.

 

Any bets on Verin being bound to the Horn?  That kind of an exit practically begs for it...