A song of Ice and Fire, discussion (spoilers)

[TheBeerPatriot]

...Am I the only person who got bored of these books by the second one?

 

No, that's a pretty consistent complaint about them. They have massive battles and action set-pieces (outstripping anything seen - so far - in WoT, but far fewer in number) but there's a lot of slow-burning intrigue, politics and characterisation to get there, which doesn't work for everyone.

Same here, I lost interest after Clash of Kings.  I just wonder for those that have read the whole series so far-do you still have interest in the series, even though the last book came out in 2005?

[Barmacral]

Beer, Yes, I definitely look forward to the next book coming out.

[Mr Ares]

My eagerness to read A Dance With Dragons has not waned with the long wait.

[Werthead]

Same here, I lost interest after Clash of Kings.  I just wonder for those that have read the whole series so far-do you still have interest in the series, even though the last book came out in 2005?

 

ASoIaF has one of the largest and most vocal fantasy fanbases on the Internet (Westeros.org has 2,000 more members than Dragonmount, for example), with a level of theorising and debate over storylines and the future direction of the series that is not rivalled by anything other than the WoT and HARRY POTTER fandoms.

 

The biggest differences between the two is that whilst WoT fans have a (somewhat) steady diet of new releases to fuel speculation and debate, ASoIaF doesn't, so in the down-period fans tend to switch to discussing other authors, then back to ASoIaF when the new book comes out. It's quite impressive actually, given how other series just die unnoticed after long periods without new books.

[christe1602]

Haven't been on Dragonmount for some time. It looks like I am addicted to yet another unfinished fantasy series. I love ASoIF. I simply can't put it down. I am only reading the 2nd book now so I am hoping G. R.R.M will have released another book before I run out of books to read. I heard that its being made into a TV series by HBO. Does anyone out there know when this might be released and will it be released in Australia? I hope they keep the adult themes I hate when they clean these things up too much. Hey at least I've got some reading to do while I am waiting for the next WOT book.

cheers

christel

[Hallow]

I am only reading the 2nd book now so I am hoping G. R.R.M will have released another book before I run out of books to read.

 

Depends on how fast you read really, there's no release date or anything for the next book so can't say for sure now, though if you read at a moderately fast speed it probably won't be out in time.

 

I heard that its being made into a TV series by HBO. Does anyone out there know when this might be released and will it be released in Australia?

 

Yeah HBO is making "A Game of Thrones" into a TV-show, no idea whether it's gonna be out on Australian television though (Psst: Pirate it if it doesn't).

 

I hope they keep the adult themes I hate when they clean these things up too much.

 

Considering it's HBO I doubt they'll be censoring it at all, it's sorta their thing.

[MattTaz]

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/books/article/784607--do-yourself-a-favour-don-t-read-this-book

 

The emails GRRM gets about Robert Jordan are a tad disturbing

[Hallow]

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/books/article/784607--do-yourself-a-favour-don-t-read-this-book

 

The emails GRRM gets about Robert Jordan are a tad disturbing

 

I took some time to read a little on two of the blogs mentioned in that article, and frankly I'm a little scared...

[Werthead]

The TV series is currently expected to debut in April 2011.

[shinerfan]

Whenever I see that Werthead has posted in this thread I start with the happy dance thinking he's gonna inform us that ADWD is finished and has an approximate release date.  :'( 

[Hallow]

Whenever I see that Werthead has posted in this thread I start with the happy dance thinking he's gonna inform us that ADWD is finished and has an approximate release date.  :'( 

 

Yeah I think the same :P

[Werthead]

No, no release date here ;)

 

But a 10-second teaser trailer of the TV series anyway.

[Neemo]

I've never read thes books before, but was recommended that they were really good ... i've managed to get myself a copy of the books so i will be starting to read the series soon ... wish me luck :)

 

I'm a big fan of fantasy literature so its shocking to me that i havent even known about this series until this year  :-\

[mb]

The following page might be the first to tell the finish of the book.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

 

[redarm]

The following page might be the first to tell that the book is finished.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

 

 

 

That was dated in early 2008.  And he says quite clearly, at that time, that the book is not finished.  We are two and a hlaf years further on and my guess is we won't get it this year either.

[redarm]

I've never read thes books before, but was recommended that they were really good ... i've managed to get myself a copy of the books so i will be starting to read the series soon ... wish me luck :)

 

I'm a big fan of fantasy literature so its shocking to me that i havent even known about this series until this year  :-\

 

 

I am almost finished with A Storm of Swords and I have enjoyed the books greatly.  One word of warning.  Do not get attached to any characters.

[Werthead]

The following page might be the first to tell that the book is finished.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

 

Martin doesn't use that page for updates any more (confusing, I know), although that page will likely be updated when finished. We'll probably get the news first on his Notablog here:

 

http://grrm.livejournal.com/

 

To get the book out in 2010, Martin (like Sanderson and Towers of Midnight) needs to finish by mid-August. The tone of his previous blog entry appears to indicate he anticipates finishing before September/October (when the NYC Comic-Con takes place; he has said he won't go to a major convention like that unless the book is finished and is missing the San Diego one because of it, so that stands to reason), so it will come down to the wire. Early 2011 publication may be more likely at this time.

[Rufae]

First off, I just finished through AFFC only a couple weeks ago. Overall I liked it. I liked the storyline of Dany best but unfortunately, she has been a side character so far and so has missed out on screen time. That looks to change for Dance with Dragons though.

 

I don't think the Jon parantage is as big as who killed Asmodean. So far, that storyline has been a minor thing. It is only when you combine multiple unproven theories does it rise to importance.

 

I only have three complaints with the series:

 

1) Most of the characters come across as shallow, one dimensional, stock characters. This begins to change however later in the books most notable with Tyrion, Jamie, Arya, and Sansa. The rest just seem to be placeholders throughout the books.

 

2) The timing is played with quite a bit. When GRRM needs the characters to move quickly, they do. When he needs for them to lolly-gag. They do that too. So one character's journey from Harrenhal to Kings Landing might take a week and another one might take a month. It is said that Westeros is about the size of South America. At times it does seem like that, but at other times it seems about the size of the State of Georgia.

 

3) He has a obsession with describing food almost on par with Anne MacCaffery. He must have gotten that from RJ's dress fetish (although GRRM does it more often).

 

Yet it is a good read and I am looking forward to the next books since they promise to be more Fantasy oriented with the coming of the Dragons, Others, and other creepy crawlies.

 

EDIT: Did anyone else want to strangle Sansa? I did for most of the series to the point of wanting to skip her chapters but didn't for fear of missing something else. At the very end I could almost stand to read her without gagging but just barely.

[Rufae]

Oh and someone wondered if HBO will keep all the spicy scenes found in the books. They will keep the scenes but they are bumping up the ages of the actors/actresses to make it more acceptable. Afterall, even HBO won't show 14-16 year olds having sex or naked 10 year olds.

 

 

[Tsunami]

What bothers me about the series though, is the constant depression I go through when reading it, all my favorite characters dying isn't good for me :p

 

I warned you.... don't get attached to any character.

[Tsunami]

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/books/article/784607--do-yourself-a-favour-don-t-read-this-book

 

The emails GRRM gets about Robert Jordan are a tad disturbing

 

I have to admit to being very frustrated about the progress of the books.  It seems that GRRM has taken advantage of the popularity of this series to re-promote everything he's ever written, go back to old projects (Wild Cards), and get bogged down in handling every detail from everything to replica swords to painted knight figurines.

 

I wouldn't go so far as the guy who started the blog about just publishing the book (particularly, the jabs about RJ are in very poor taste), but there is a reason HBO is making this series... we readers love these books... and I feel that GRRM doesn't focus on writing them.

 

Just venting a little.  Thanks.

 

[Werthead]

I liked the storyline of Dany best but unfortunately, she has been a side character so far and so has missed out on screen time. That looks to change for Dance with Dragons though.

 

And then some. One estimate suggests that Daenerys will almost double the number of POV chapters she has in the entire series through her presence in ADWD, where she is the dominant character.

 

I don't think the Jon parantage is as big as who killed Asmodean. So far, that storyline has been a minor thing. It is only when you combine multiple unproven theories does it rise to importance.

 

Jon's parentage is not necessarily important for the overall story of the entire series (if the theories about him being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna are false), but it will expand on his character development, especially if it is revealed that his real mother is still alive.

 

The killer of Asmodean isn't really important. RJ always seemed puzzled that people focused on it and thought it a grand central mystery of the series. It's only impact is pure curiosity value.

 

The timing is played with quite a bit. When GRRM needs the characters to move quickly, they do. When he needs for them to lolly-gag. They do that too. So one character's journey from Harrenhal to Kings Landing might take a week and another one might take a month. It is said that Westeros is about the size of South America. At times it does seem like that, but at other times it seems about the size of the State of Georgia.

 

The timeline in the books is itself somewhat vague. When analysed closely (and there are sites that do for ASoIaF what the WoT chronology site does for WoT and so on), everything does track, it just means that chapters that appear to take place close together actually take place about three months apart. This just isn't as overt as in WoT (and the lack of seasons makes tracking elapsed time much more tricky than with Jordan). For example, Jaime's ride from King's Landing to Riverrun takes about as much time as Brienne's tough journey up the coast to Duskendale and Maidenpool, but whilst the former covered one chapter the latter covers about three. Catelyn's grand tour of the Reach and Stormlands in A CLASH OF KINGS also lasts something like nine months, but only covers a few chapters.

 

The continent of Westeros, including the area north of the Wall, is indeed about the size of South America in length, but not overall area. Westeros is much narrower. It's about 3,000 miles from the Wall to the south coast of Dorne (South America is over 4,000 miles from the Panama Canal to the tip of Chile in comparison).

 

@ MattTaz: I would say that there is a huge 'perception' problem about GRRM's work ethic, a problem partially of GRRM's own making and partially down to audiences making simplistic deductions. For example, if GRRM doesn't mention ADWD for 3 months but talks about football and and the TV series, then people assume that GRRM hasn't worked on ADWD at all for 3 months but has spent the whole time watching football and working on the TV series, which is not the case. This could, of course, be alleviated by GRRM making much more frequent references to ADWD, but GRRM hates doing that (and in fairness as many people moan when he talks about the book and it's still unfinished as when he doesn't).

 

To offer my own update from my own contacts with GRRM's team (GRRM himself is busy working on the book ;) ), he was working like a maniac trying to finish the book before going to San Diego to teach at Clarion, passing the 1,400 manuscript-page mark (the target length for the book is now less than 1,500 MS pages). He then leapt straight back into the book yesterday upon his return home to New Mexico for several hours before blogging about the new casting announcements. The publishers are going to go for broke to get the book out in 2010 but are considering alternative plans for an early 2011 publication if they can't manage it.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

I see Danaerys and Jon coming together. The old Targaryen incest drama.

[Rufae]

Werthead>> How do you see the timing of the releases of ADWD and Towers of Midnight? Surely they are not going to go head to head. I think that would just be counter-productive to both if they release too close together. Therefore, I foresee a early 2011 release of Dance to drum up excitement for the HBO series.

 

[shinerfan]

Jon's parentage is not necessarily important for the overall story of the entire series (if the theories about him being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna are false), but it will expand on his character development, especially if it is revealed that his real mother is still alive.

 

 

 

 

 

Dany's vision of the blue rose growing from a chink in a wall of ice seems pretty definitive regarding Jon's mother. For the Undying to have knowingly provided a false vision wouldn't they have had to know a great deal about the Stark's and King Robert's Rebellion? I haven't seen any alternative theories that even attempt to address this detail. ?+L=J, with R certainly being the most likely candidate.