White Tower Reunification Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[SinisterDeath]

The chapter is named "A Fount of Power"

 

She was wielding an incredible amount of Saidar.. she likely had a full circle of novices (12) plus the small amount she could use, funneling through the most powerful S'angreal in the tower. That's gotta be significantly more than Nynaeve could use if she was swatting away shields and blowing up stuff everywhere as if it were nothing.

 

Remember that a circle pushes everybody in the circle to max capacity before burn out. So even tho they were novices.. there were 12.. at max capacity x s'angreal.. tons of power..

 

the only reason they probably didn't notice is because there were about 400 people channeling in the tower. Probably kinda hard to distinguish between what is coming from where at that point.

 

I don't believe her 'circle' was that full, Read the chapter again, There were 'several' novices, forming 'smaller circles', guarding various 'entrances' like stairwells and hallways. So if there were say, 20 novice/accepted on that floor, she could have had 5 gaurding one set of stairs, 5 guarding another, 5 making rounds around the hallways, and another 5 sitting in that room, while Egwene plays anti-airplane-turret.

 

I still don't think her power in that circle + sa'angrael increased her power to as some said 'super sedia level 3'. I'm betting it did something closer to 2x, or 3x. Assuming angreal/sa'angreal aren't 'addative', but... increase based on multiples...

Course, if the sa'angreal brought someone who could 'barely knock over a can', up to Egwenes level, And if the circle alone brought egwene to egwenes level, If its addative, that would make Egwene x2.

IF its multiple, that be like say... Egwene x75.

 

This also begs the question.

Ranking Aes Sedia on there Power, is it static or is it closer to 'warp factors' from star trek?

 

Warp Factor - C = speed of light

1 - 1c

2 - 10c

3 - 40c

4 - 102c

5 - 213c

6 - 393c

7 - 656c

8 - 1024c

9 - 1516c

9.5 - 2548c

9.8 - 4472c

9.99999999999999 - 20868565745c

10 - ∞

 

Nyneave would be an 8, Egwene a 7, and a Sa'angreal could bring her to a 9.0, Her + circle + sa'angral could bring her to a 9.5.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

While this was a brilliant storyline and made me pull a 180 on my opinion of Egwene I have to ask, was I the only one who was disappointed that Leanne played absolutely no roll in the Seanchan Raid?  I just always assumed that RJ had placed her in The Tower for a reason.   I kept expecting her to show up to save Egwene's bacon at some pivotal moment.  Failing that it would have been nice to at least see her rallying some Accepted or taking out a sul'dam or two.  Or perhaps she could have showed up and helped Suian and Bryne, of taken out one of  those Seanchan Assassins (there were still four unaccounted for)  or bitch-slapped Gawyn and told him how big a moron he is.  Just so many opportunities for her to do something.

[coteaz]

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

 

That is a link to the Saidar Strength Ranking on 13th depository and it has Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne listed as level 15 and Nynaeve at level 17, so with that in mind id say that with that power Egwene would have been pushed up to a 18 or 19 maybe? possibly even lanfear level.

[Xelun]

I don't believe her 'circle' was that full, Read the chapter again, There were 'several' novices, forming 'smaller circles', guarding various 'entrances' like stairwells and hallways. So if there were say, 20 novice/accepted on that floor, she could have had 5 gaurding one set of stairs, 5 guarding another, 5 making rounds around the hallways, and another 5 sitting in that room, while Egwene plays anti-airplane-turret.

 

On page 652:

"Saerin accepted another report, then raised her eyebrows at what it said. Only three novices in Egwene's group of over sixty had died?"

 

I would think that it is quite possible that she had a full circle backing her up.

[Rowan Sedai]

I don't believe her 'circle' was that full, Read the chapter again, There were 'several' novices, forming 'smaller circles', guarding various 'entrances' like stairwells and hallways. So if there were say, 20 novice/accepted on that floor, she could have had 5 gaurding one set of stairs, 5 guarding another, 5 making rounds around the hallways, and another 5 sitting in that room, while Egwene plays anti-airplane-turret.

 

On page 652:

"Saerin accepted another report, then raised her eyebrows at what it said. Only three novices in Egwene's group of over sixty had died?"

 

I would think that it is quite possible that she had a full circle backing her up.

 

It shocks me how few people read this chapter the same way I did. 

 

P. 623 - 624 - Egwene calls four of the strongest, and most stable novices forward and links with three of them.  Nicola, Yeteri, and Inala.  This circle brings her up to near her usual strength.  She leaves the others to practice, and goes to the store room via traveling.  Finding the sa'angreal, she probably pulls as deeply as she can, keeping only the three she first linked with.  It even says, just before she goes for the sa'angreal, that she forms the remaining sixty or so novices into groups of their own.

 

P. 625 - An awesome, almost overpowering, torrent of power flooded through her.  Yeteri gasped audibly at sensing it.  Few women had ever held such power.  It surged into Egwene, like a deep breath drawn in.  It made her long to roar.  She looked at the three novices, smiling broadly. "Now we're ready," she announced.

 

P. 631 - Later, when Adelorna Bastine sees her, she is stunned by how much power Egwene has. "A woman in white stood atop the rubble a short distance away a massive halo of power surrounding her, her arm outstretched toward the fleeing soldiers, her eyes intense.  The woman stood like vengeance itself, the power of saidar like a storm around her.  The very air seemed alight.. [cont]"

[SinisterDeath]

It shocks me how few people read this chapter the same way I did. 

 

P. 623 - 624 - Egwene calls four of the strongest, and most stable novices forward and links with three of them.  Nicola, Yeteri, and Inala.  This circle brings her up to near her usual strength.  She leaves the others to practice, and goes to the store room via traveling.  Finding the sa'angreal, she probably pulls as deeply as she can, keeping only the three she first linked with.  It even says, just before she goes for the sa'angreal, that she forms the remaining sixty or so novices into groups of their own.

 

P. 625 - An awesome, almost overpowering, torrent of power flooded through her.  Yeteri gasped audibly at sensing it.  Few women had ever held such power.  It surged into Egwene, like a deep breath drawn in.  It made her long to roar.  She looked at the three novices, smiling broadly. "Now we're ready," she announced.

 

P. 631 - Later, when Adelorna Bastine sees her, she is stunned by how much power Egwene has. "A woman in white stood atop the rubble a short distance away a massive halo of power surrounding her, her arm outstretched toward the fleeing soldiers, her eyes intense.  The woman stood like vengeance itself, the power of saidar like a storm around her.  The very air seemed alight.. [cont]"

 

So, I'm 100% right. :P

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

 

That is a link to the Saidar Strength Ranking on 13th depository and it has Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne listed as level 15 and Nynaeve at level 17, so with that in mind id say that with that power Egwene would have been pushed up to a 18 or 19 maybe? possibly even lanfear level.

 

That link listed that the difference in power between levels, isn't neccisarilly the same.

Aka if it were 500 points between 1 and 2, it could be 600 between 2 and 3...

[Bob T Dwarf]

Rowan -

 

I think the thing everybody else is referring to is from later in the battle:

Page 642

But she was a fount of Power, drawn from deep within the fluted rod in her hands, channeled through a group of novices and Accepted hiding in the room behind, bound to her in circle. ...

 

No exact number is given for her "group," but a group is usually more than 3 or 4.  That would be a few.

[Rowan Sedai]

It's completely possible that there are more than three or four then, at that point.  Especially since the three she chose earlier are only novices I believe.

[Thorn]

 

It shocks me how few people read this chapter the same way I did.  

 

P. 623 - 624 - Egwene calls four of the strongest, and most stable novices forward and links with three of them.  Nicola, Yeteri, and Inala.  This circle brings her up to near her usual strength.  She leaves the others to practice, and goes to the store room via traveling.  Finding the sa'angreal, she probably pulls as deeply as she can, keeping only the three she first linked with.  It even says, just before she goes for the sa'angreal, that she forms the remaining sixty or so novices into groups of their own.

 

P. 625 - An awesome, almost overpowering, torrent of power flooded through her.  Yeteri gasped audibly at sensing it.  Few women had ever held such power.  It surged into Egwene, like a deep breath drawn in.  It made her long to roar.  She looked at the three novices, smiling broadly. "Now we're ready," she announced.

 

P. 631 - Later, when Adelorna Bastine sees her, she is stunned by how much power Egwene has. "A woman in white stood atop the rubble a short distance away a massive halo of power surrounding her, her arm outstretched toward the fleeing soldiers, her eyes intense.  The woman stood like vengeance itself, the power of saidar like a storm around her.  The very air seemed alight.. [cont]"

 

I think your analysis is largely correct up to the point she obtains the fluted rod on pg 625, but I was of the opinion that Egwene's group had formed approximately four or five large, 13-member circles, of which Egwene led one -- partly because forming 13 member circles was the defensive protocol established in the Salidar camp, partly because she instructed her novices to form "at least five good circles". LArge circles would also make strategic sense against the Seanchan, as it would help prevent shielding even by powerful damane.

 

 The real question is whether she added any novices to her circle after she returned with the sa'angreal; I think it's a safe presumption that she did, due to the "massive halo" of power around her -- to me, that seemed to indicate Egwene was working with a fairly large circle at that point, even with the sa'angreal.

[Bob T Dwarf]

BTW, it wasn't some random bubble of evil that rearranged the Tower so that the Novice Quarters were now way up there on the 22nd floor where Egwene and those novices could fight to best effect.

 

That was the Wheel stacking the deck in her favor so that she'd get the kind of notice that would finally result in the Tower AS choosing her for their Amyrlin, too.

[Rowan Sedai]

BTW, it wasn't some random bubble of evil that rearranged the Tower so that the Novice Quarters were now way up there on the 22nd floor where Egwene and those novices could fight to best effect.

 

That was the Wheel stacking the deck in her favor so that she'd get the kind of notice that would finally result in the Tower AS choosing her for their Amyrlin, too.

 

It is my opinion (please take it as only opinion) that without Egwene where she was, the dream she had would have become truth.  If Egwene had not been in the tower, where she was, when she was then the Seanchan would have come in and taken a lot more captives.  They also would have found next to no resistance.  The entire WT would have ended up broken and scattered, just as her dream predicted.  I believe it was just as much about her becoming Amyrlin as it was about keeping the Aes Sedai together at all!

 

I was also under the impression, speaking of dreams, that they are never 100%.  I could be completely wrong, though.

[coteaz]

Yeah that's what i thought, and with the pattern in flux, perhaps what she saw in her dream was altered by this?

[Rowan Sedai]

I think it would be the other way around.  That this was altered by her dream.  She had at knew herself that it was coming and so wasn't totally panicked or confused when it happened.  That means her reaction time was rather fast.  Since there were shadows down one of the hallways, making her turn toward the other novices, I believe if she hadn't reacted as quickly as she did they would all have been captured and collared.

[coteaz]

yes but what i meant was that, she dreamed that the aes sedai would be scattered, at least that's the way i interpreted it, and that didn't happen. But yeah she was on guard due to the dream, but with the pattern in flux, it may have happened slightly differently to what would of happened had the pattern not been in flux.

[Rowan Sedai]

Yes, she dreamed about the Aes Sedai being scattered like drops of oil, and that did not happen.  I do not think that is because the pattern is in flux, however.  I think dreams, unlike Min's viewings, are not what -will- happen, but what -may- happen.  I believe the WOs even say something to this effect.

[Kivam]

Yes, she dreamed about the Aes Sedai being scattered like drops of oil, and that did not happen.  I do not think that is because the pattern is in flux, however.  I think dreams, unlike Min's viewings, are not what -will- happen, but what -may- happen.  I believe the WOs even say something to this effect.

 

No - she dreamed of drops of oil falling from the tower, but the lamp still burning.  The few captives who were taken were the "drops of oil"

[coteaz]

that is a good point, i didn't realize that, nice one.

[Rowan Sedai]

Then I wonder if the drops of oil could represent all the black ajah who fled. :o

[coteaz]

yeah that could be, nice one.

[Orderofolde]

I keep seeing the wrong idea about E and her circle and how much power she wielded.  She added her own wan bit, but it was to a pool of all the others, and she took control of the circle which gave her control over all the combined strength.  Add in a Sa'angreal, not just an A'ngreal, and it was enough power to deflect the Damane from trying to shield her again and again and again as she power-slapped those Raken from the sky.  Again.  And Again.  And again.  She was using some good power up there on that tower.  You could even add in that as time progressed the forkroot lessened and allowed more of her natural strength into the melded flows of the circle, but at that point it was trivial.  (Remember, from the power of the circle she had the strength to open gateways to fetch the flute from the storeroom.)

[coteaz]

Well when you wield that much power, it becomes harder and harder to shield unless you are using an equal amount of the OP, It would be even more so had she used the female CK (which is broken)

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

 

It shocks me how few people read this chapter the same way I did.  

 

P. 623 - 624 - Egwene calls four of the strongest, and most stable novices forward and links with three of them.  Nicola, Yeteri, and Inala.  This circle brings her up to near her usual strength.  She leaves the others to practice, and goes to the store room via traveling.  Finding the sa'angreal, she probably pulls as deeply as she can, keeping only the three she first linked with.  It even says, just before she goes for the sa'angreal, that she forms the remaining sixty or so novices into groups of their own.

 

P. 625 - An awesome, almost overpowering, torrent of power flooded through her.  Yeteri gasped audibly at sensing it.  Few women had ever held such power.  It surged into Egwene, like a deep breath drawn in.  It made her long to roar.  She looked at the three novices, smiling broadly. "Now we're ready," she announced.

 

P. 631 - Later, when Adelorna Bastine sees her, she is stunned by how much power Egwene has. "A woman in white stood atop the rubble a short distance away a massive halo of power surrounding her, her arm outstretched toward the fleeing soldiers, her eyes intense.  The woman stood like vengeance itself, the power of saidar like a storm around her.  The very air seemed alight.. [cont]"

 

I think your analysis is largely correct up to the point she obtains the fluted rod on pg 625, but I was of the opinion that Egwene's group had formed approximately four or five large, 13-member circles, of which Egwene led one -- partly because forming 13 member circles was the defensive protocol established in the Salidar camp, partly because she instructed her novices to form "at least five good circles". LArge circles would also make strategic sense against the Seanchan, as it would help prevent shielding even by powerful damane.

 

 The real question is whether she added any novices to her circle after she returned with the sa'angreal; I think it's a safe presumption that she did, due to the "massive halo" of power around her -- to me, that seemed to indicate Egwene was working with a fairly large circle at that point, even with the sa'angreal.

 

She did add novices and accepted to her circle.  They were hiding in the room next to her while she channeled.

 

And the Sa'Angreal is Incredibly powerful, because it magnified her abilities to far beyond that of her normal strength.  She makes a reference to this in the chapter when she confronts Sheriam and Moria for being Black Ajah.  She says that although the Sa'Angreal gave her power beyond her abilities, it felt better to be self-sufficient

[Ged]

With a circle and a sa'angreal, she should've just raped the Seanchan. Especially considering they were on flying animals that probably couldn't maneuver anywhere near as fast as she could've destroyed them. If 200 Asha'man could quickly throw up a wall that stopped the Wise Ones, Egwene should've been able with let's say the power of 20-30 channelers, to at least throw up something that would slow down the Seanchan.

 

Others have channeled for hours before. Why was Egwene dead after fighting what was really not that large a force of Seanchan... when she wasn't even fighting all of it on her own? I don't understand how the Seanchan managed to get away at all.

[coteaz]

Because she was using more power than her body could handle, and as such it strained her body, the same thing happened to Nynaeve when she was using the CK.

[Ged]

Nynaeve and Rand managed to channel those amounts for a whole day. The Seanchan attack wasn't really that large or time consuming.

(could've been forkroot side-effects)

 

Its interesting that someone with forkroot can channel Saidar through someone else when their own body and mind are impaired. A little like Nynaeve being able to channel through Moghedien when blocked... it should've been a purely mental thing.. her mind should've been as afraid of Saidar from Moghy as from herself.