Prologue, Chap. 1-50, Epilogue

[Aiemond]

Now, Semi's escape. The DO definitely was involved in her release, which means he also knew where it would lead her to. Now I am wondering, did Rand actually tap into the true power directly from the DO, or did he use his link with Moridin to tap into Moridin's ability to use the TP. I am most certain in either's opinion (Moridin and the DO) having Rand taint his soul by using the TP was well worth the sacrifice of Semi.

 

 

I have seen this opinion a few times and I am going to have to disagree. I think he let her go for the same reasons as he let moggy free and revived the others. He thinks they are his best tools in this age. I do not believe Moridin was faking his anger in the prologue or lying about what she was supposed to do. She was supposed to capture Rand without hurting him.

 

When SH came into the cell, he reiterated that she failed and that she had to complete her mission. That is why we did not see her go to Cads first. She picked up the sad bracelet and went directly to Rand and placed it on him. Based on everything that is known about it she had no reason to expect him to be able to escape at this point. I do not believe that Moridin would have expected him to be able to free himself from the sad bracelet either. But, then the whole thing with the TP happened. We see Moridin's face thus confirming it is the link. This does not mean the DO gave permission to Rand to use it, nor did Moridin. In fact, I am going to say that neither one knew what happened (especially since there will be no report from Semi). The DO is paranoid; he would not let rand touch it himself.

 

Now, I believe that the intent was to turn rand with the 13 fades after he was brought back to moridin, or that he simply would have been broken by semi on moridin's order. The TP thing was a true wildcard and totally unexpected.

[Beren]

I don't get it why Rand destroyed the Choedan Kal when he could have leveled the Blight that was teeming with Trollocs, Fades, and other shadowspawn.  If I was in his shoes, I would have leveled the Blight and the Trolloc armies and then destroy the Choedan Kal.

 

Because he realized it was too powerful.

 

(And, it was prophesied that he must do so, but he didn't realize that.)

What prophecy was that?

 

"And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide..."

 

 

Look what happened to CK which men made. It exploded --> shattered.

 

 

I will respond to the rest of your stuff later as I will have to type out the quotes/explanations and I have to get to school right now.

[TreeJoe]

I want to put forth a random theory that has occurred to me since beginning to read tGS.

 

I think Rand has to be involved in the final clearing of the Dark One's prison. I think Rand is somehow going to HAVE to free him completely.

 

Here's why: If the Dark One started to break-free and just exerted no will on the world while "breaking free" (no climate changes, no spoiling, etc.), did not amass trollocs, did not send forsaken out, etc. etc.

 

Then there would never have been a build-up around trying to seal him off. The very act of him exerting influence in the world is the act upon which the Light is gathering it's forces and knowledge to re-imprison him.

 

He could have just quietly let his prison rot all the way away and then exert massive influence on the world (or break time) all at once.

 

Because of this, i think the Dark One wants Rand to be incredibly powerful and take certain actions around breaking down the original prison.

 

 

Just a random theory....maybe it's been put forth before.

[Pandemonium]

After Jason's review, he mentioned that Nynaeve had made an offhand comment that really made him think about something.  Jason said that he came with a very interesting theory and even mentioned it to Brandon Sanderson.

 

What is this offhand comment by Nynaeve?  I looked for it in my 1st read, but I didn't see anything that jumped out at me yet.  I will have to do a re-read though.

 

Anyone else notice anything?

[Cirin]

[/quote from Aiemond]

When SH came into the cell, he reiterated that she failed and that she had to complete her mission. That is why we did not see her go to Cads first. She picked up the sad bracelet and went directly to Rand and placed it on him. Based on everything that is known about it she had no reason to expect him to be able to escape at this point. I do not believe that Moridin would have expected him to be able to free himself from the sad bracelet either. But, then the whole thing with the TP happened. We see Moridin's face thus confirming it is the link. This does not mean the DO gave permission to Rand to use it, nor did Moridin. In fact, I am going to say that neither one knew what happened (especially since there will be no report from Semi). The DO is paranoid; he would not let rand touch it himself.

 

Now, I believe that the intent was to turn rand with the 13 fades after he was brought back to moridin, or that he simply would have been broken by semi on moridin's order. The TP thing was a true wildcard and totally unexpected.

 

I don't see any reason that the Dark One would keep Rand from accessing the power... quite the opposite.  He freed Semirhage, gave her the means to imprison Rand, and then offered him the True Power as the only means of getting out of the trap that he had set for him.  We saw how effective it was - not only did Rand use the power, but the conclusion of that battle almost saw the Dark One successful.  Rand was changed, was slowly losing grip, and was ready (at the end of the book) to destroy everything.  If that doesn't fit in well with the Dark One's plans, I don't know what does, and it ties in perfectly with what Verin told Egwene about Rand perhaps not understanding how the Dark One really fights.

 

As for the Choedan Kal, Llews Therin said that he had always thought it too powerful and that it wouldn't work to use it to seal the Dark One.  It's not that the sa'angreal itself is flawed, it's that they've stressed time and time again that the One Power can be terribly addictive, and having access to SO MUCH of it, well... the best thing is to remove the temptation entirely.  Besides, that means he also doesn't have to worry about it falling into the wrong hands.

 

They make it pretty clear that Callandor will be the sa'angreal of choice, although they're unsure why.  Maybe something to do with the nature of it, that it really requires men and women working together to be used properly.  That way you can't use just sai'din or sai'dar, as they did the first time.  We'll have to wait and see.

 

All in all, though, a very good book, although I did think that Mat seemed a bit too much like comic relief at times, which is fine to a point but seemed a bit too much.  But then, I DO like Mat the best, so maybe I'm just being picky...

[ohaitharguiz]

Just a few of my thoughts. I DO think that Graendal is dead. We keep referring to the fact that RJ always showed the forsaken die, or it was from their PoV. But RJ may not of written that part of the story (I really am not sure how much he had written before he passed away). There are some valid arguments for her being alive, but I do think she is dead. One other thing that we HAVE to see in the next book, Rand figuring out Elayne is pregnant. Glad that didn't happen in this one, otherwise Rand may have tried some sort of saidin abortion. And just in general, he actually needs to see and speak to Avi and Elayne, they were practically nonexistant in this book. Elayne literally, Avi didn't do too much when she was there.

 

DRIPPING WATER IN BUCKETS!? I WILL HAVE HONOR, MAN ASK TO MARRY ME? WHAT?! HONOR.

 

Just was a little bland to me. However, really enjoyed the book. Well done BS.

[shamrockhoax]

I need to look through the book again, but what kind of affect would the oath rod have on Mesaana?

 

Even if it did bind her, it doesn't seem like they were asking the right questions. She is not black ajah and she is not a darkfriend. She could probably do a good job at dodging the question because they are not being specific enough with the question.

[The Lord of Morning]

Good lord does anyone want to break the other available topics up just so we dont have to spend hours going through this thing?  meet me in one of the zero ones or something. or assign graendal debate to Chapter1-2 thread or something.  

 

Loved the book, definatly glad with the pace, action etc. although i was reminded a bit of GRRM by not getting to see other POV's/aspects of the story,  its similar to how he splits a feast for crows and dragon in two instead of the one novel.  It seems to be indicated that BS will release a novel each year around this time on wikipedia.  anyone know if that is acurate?  

 

I think Graendal is dead. The whole debate Rand had with how to kill someone smarter then you. . . dont let them have a chance to respond in any way shape or form. i think when people ask BS if graendal is alive he is going to respond the same way RJ did when ppl kept pestering him about sammuel. SHE IS DEAD.  yes you can have your opinion but just let her go.  there was no cool dreamworld battle like with ishy or rahvin, no showdown like lanfear or belal,   everyone knows she is too smart for that. . just nuke her and be done with it.  I think the whole idea of the compulsion dissapearing was meant to be 'proof' to let this rest. how much can we expect the author to overthink this? there are still five forsaken left. i think we all agree rand has to kill them all before this is over. so he has plenty to deal with in two books.  the timeline indicates a couple of months before this all ends.  I wonder if those farmers in the prologue join Lan's army?  I really hope nyn doesnt hav eto see him dead as Min fortold.  

 

the new prophecy with the sword of light and three becoming one.    its tricky and we dont have any RJ comments to shed light but no one seems to remember that alivia(what is the seachan damane's name that is supposed to help rand 'die')  is a forsaken level channeler. i think she will be one of the two women that helps rand properly use callandor.  we know it needs two women to help the man focus properly (someone argued that he has done fine with it and iw ould disagree completely, going nuts in tear, going nuts against the seanchen, he did lose control, hell he himself talks about how it is flawed and how the CK is pure.  whatever the flaw means i dont think there is enough info yet, or is related to needed two women)   maybe moraine will be the 2nd.     i dont think he will merge with LTT AND ishy because min had a view of him mergin with one man. i think would be LTT and now he is free. how many books have we had him struggling with LTT? i think its safe to assume that its the 2nd person, rand certainly thinks so and its a lot easier thinking he merges with himself then merging with the champion of shadow. although now that i say that i have to reread the end to see, maybe the champions do decide to team up. the whole visiting moridin at the fireplace scene was awesome imo.  i mean seriously who the hell expected that? who remembers the feeling in the first three books when ishy would drag them to that place?   the three in one may be his three wives but need more info imo.  

 

yes ewgene is a badass, yes she did a damn good job and deserves mad cool points. i dont hate her anymore then i hate every other aes sedai that tries to control rand because they all assume they know better then him and need to tell him what to do.   I dont hate cadsuane as much because even though she is under the same umbrella, her goal isnt to control him as much as SAVE him from his madness pathway, which she succeeds in IMO. (i figured verin was black or purple? (WTF) but liked her anyway and glad that most other people felt the same). It WAS cads plan to bring his father into the fray and which did ultimately lead him to sanity. although what is she going to teach the other ashaman?  anyone worried at the huge power mazrim has gathered at the BT without Rand checking up on him? without the CK how the hell is he going to beat them without a lot of bloodshed? i kinda expected him to go in there with the CK and clean house.  Did he really get 100 ashaman for itulrede?  Rand put it nicely when he told Nyn that he trust her because she cares about Rand althor, NOT the dragon reborn who has to save everyone and beat the DO.   I am trying nto to be a ewgene hater since she did argue with eliada that you cant control him and keep him locked up, otherwise the prophecies cant be met etc etc.  

 

Anyone wonder where padan fain is?  i was waiting the entire time for a little tidbit ANYWHERE about him, he knows bad shit is happening and hell, it seems he has been able to start making his own little bubbles around himself. he is like a little dark one himself.  which leads me to the statement LTT made, you have to push the DO back with SOMETHING.   why not another evil?   maybe padan fain is the buffer that will allow rand to seal him properly.  and yes he will hav eto break the seals etc, i was suprised back in the day when people used to argue against that.

 

I loved the aviendha part, short as it was. its easy to see from third person but i though the whole test was obvious, but well written none the less. i wanted to scream at her to just let it go and stand up for herself. damn i have read to much fantasy for these things.

 

seriously though too many thoughts.  glad i avoided the board until i read it but now annoyed that we cant discuss it without having to wade through all these things posts that may not be related.  

 

I think the shadow has not shown nearly enough of its cards for people to say the light is winning, the whole world collasping, we have barely seen any trollocs! and all this forshadowing that the war will be fought in a way rand doesnt expect, most assumed large aries of trollocs but hwo are they feeing themselves if they are not raiding the borderlands that much?  shara? With the dragon reborn we have a chance. . . What the hell is RJ goin to throw at them now?  why does it seem like every '2nd' book have to be like the empire strikes back with evil kicking ass and takig names?  

 

anyone waiting for rand to be a beggar?  I figure that when logain will gain his fame and glory, while rand roams around allowing others to unite properly since he doesnt seem able to finish the puzzle  aaaah so much left untouched!!!  

 

so who has started their calender countdown for book two?  it says late 2010 on wikipedia!

 

 

[draconian]

the new prophecy with the sword of light and three becoming one.    its tricky and we dont have any RJ comments to shed light but no one seems to remember that alivia(what is the seachan damane's name that is supposed to help rand 'die')  is a forsaken level channeler. i think she will be one of the two women that helps rand properly use callandor.  we know it needs two women to help the man focus properly (someone argued that he has done fine with it and iw ould disagree completely, going nuts in tear, going nuts against the seanchen, he did lose control, hell he himself talks about how it is flawed and how the CK is pure.  whatever the flaw means i dont think there is enough info yet, or is related to needed two women)   maybe moraine will be the 2nd.  

the crazyness callandor caused was do to the fact that it magnifies the taint. The taint is GONE. callandor wont cause increased maddness anymore and lets not forget the bowl of the winds is what cause a great deal of the trouble vs the seanchen(making all channellling unstable). so to use callandor rand must walk the edge of the blade which he can do 10% trained but now hes an AoL aes sedai lvl channeller in skill. also as i and now min have said before whats the point of a callandor if the only safe way is for a women tobe directing the flows(meaning rand is completely passive in the circle like jahar was at the cleansing) there are no women within the forces of light currently who are 1/5 as skilled as rand unless moraine askes the finns for increase channelling power and knowledge equal to an aes sedai of the AoL. alivia has to little knowledge except in battle. i dont think rand has ennuff time to link and train women to the lvl of knowledge he will nd to use callandor effciently

[Mr. Micawber]

 

anyone waiting for rand to be a beggar?  I figure that when logain will gain his fame and glory, while rand roams around allowing others to unite properly since he doesnt seem able to finish the puzzle  aaaah so much left untouched!!!  

 

 

 

The Beggar Prophecy, along with the Walking Stick and the Blind Man, has been fulfilled (seriously, this is the third or fourth time I've had to address this on the thread. Please go back and read!)

 

He got the Beggar's Cloak from the Tinkers and the Walking Stick, both in order to hide himself in Ebou Dar, where he began his breakdown, and then gated to Dragonmount.

 

On Dragonmount, he realized that Lews Therin had never really been there and that the reasons for the Wheel of Time to keep on turning are the chance to make things right and the chance to love again - which is why the Chapter is called Veins of Gold, because that's what happens when Rand looks at any of his three babes

 

As a result, at the end of the book, he opened his eyes for the first time in a long time, and finally could see again (and we're not talking about physical sight).

 

If this weren't enough, the End Tag beat us over the head with it.

[algspkr]

^ exactly. There was no way it could have been shown within this book. It is possible that it can be shown in the prologue of the next book though.

 

 

And for those asking when she mishandled sammael - look back at books 5-7 when she's working with sammael. she's always talking about how he was so easy to understand and they have worked together a long time with her as the superior. but then her whole shara thing fails to convince him she's operating in shara. there was a bit more to it than that but basically she lost her touch with sammael. she's definitely not omnipotent.

 

She did not want him to go to Shara, she wanted him to violate the orders of the DO and kill Rand.

[draconian]

On Dragonmount, he realized that Lews Therin had never really been there 

i think LTT was there but there but never really seperate from rand

[algspkr]

I don't get it why Rand destroyed the Choedan Kal when he could have leveled the Blight that was teeming with Trollocs, Fades, and other shadowspawn.  If I was in his shoes, I would have leveled the Blight and the Trolloc armies and then destroy the Choedan Kal.

 

Because he realized it was too powerful.

 

(And, it was prophesied that he must do so, but he didn't realize that.)

What prophecy was that?

 

"And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide..."

 

 

Look what happened to CK which men made. It exploded --> shattered.

 

 

I will respond to the rest of your stuff later as I will have to type out the quotes/explanations and I have to get to school right now.

That prophecy is far more likely to be referring to the seals, as their weakening and breaking is what is allowing the Dark One to touch the pattern.

[algspkr]

I want to put forth a random theory that has occurred to me since beginning to read tGS.

 

I think Rand has to be involved in the final clearing of the Dark One's prison. I think Rand is somehow going to HAVE to free him completely.

 

Here's why: If the Dark One started to break-free and just exerted no will on the world while "breaking free" (no climate changes, no spoiling, etc.), did not amass trollocs, did not send forsaken out, etc. etc.

 

Then there would never have been a build-up around trying to seal him off. The very act of him exerting influence in the world is the act upon which the Light is gathering it's forces and knowledge to re-imprison him.

 

He could have just quietly let his prison rot all the way away and then exert massive influence on the world (or break time) all at once.

 

Because of this, i think the Dark One wants Rand to be incredibly powerful and take certain actions around breaking down the original prison.

 

 

Just a random theory....maybe it's been put forth before.

 

I'm not sure that he can control all of his effects on the pattern.  His hand on the weather is something he could hold back, but at least in the case of bubbles I am sure that he cannot control it.  How long can you hold your farts in?

[Ishmayl]

 

anyone waiting for rand to be a beggar?  I figure that when logain will gain his fame and glory, while rand roams around allowing others to unite properly since he doesnt seem able to finish the puzzle  aaaah so much left untouched!!! 

 

 

 

The Beggar Prophecy, along with the Walking Stick and the Blind Man, has been fulfilled (seriously, this is the third or fourth time I've had to address this on the thread. Please go back and read!)

 

He got the Beggar's Cloak from the Tinkers and the Walking Stick, both in order to hide himself in Ebou Dar, where he began his breakdown, and then gated to Dragonmount.

 

On Dragonmount, he realized that Lews Therin had never really been there and that the reasons for the Wheel of Time to keep on turning are the chance to make things right and the chance to love again - which is why the Chapter is called Veins of Gold, because that's what happens when Rand looks at any of his three babes

 

As a result, at the end of the book, he opened his eyes for the first time in a long time, and finally could see again (and we're not talking about physical sight).

 

If this weren't enough, the End Tag beat us over the head with it.

 

Please don't say things like "This has been done" with the absolute certainty you put in there.  Until an author says "This has been done," you cannot guarantee that it has been done, and you certainly can't justify condemning others for not agreeing solely with your view.  As we have all seen multiple times in the series, the prophecies very often turn out in ways we least expect them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I too think the prophecy was fulfilled in the exact manner that you mentioned, but we do not know it for a fact.

[Mr. Micawber]

Ishmayl, what annoys me is that before I posted anything on this thread, I read the entire thing, and I even kept track of what I saw that might be interesting to comment on. Yes, it's over sixty pages.

 

But if I can do it, I do expect others to do so as well.

 

Moreover, I can say what I did, but frankly, I think you're right to say that it was too harsh.

[WATCHER]

Duhara is in Caemlyn, attempting to get Elayne to accept her as her advisor. Think Duhara will attempt to kill Elayne and release the few BA that Elayne captured in KoD?

 

 

[Mr. Micawber]

Duhara is in Caemlyn, attempting to get Elayne to accept her as her advisor. Think Duhara will attempt to kill Elayne and release the few BA that Elayne captured in KoD?

 

 

 

I bet you a lot of money Duhara escapes to the Black Tower when Egwene talks to Elayne, and this is the event that causes Egwene to find out that Taim is a very bad boy.

 

This will lead to Rand facing the Amyrlin Seat and knowing her anger. Specifically, that he had better take care of the Asha'man, or she will.

[The Lord of Morning]

the beggar prophecy had more to do then just the jacket, he had his eyes covered with cloth and the stick, neither of which i remember in the end of the book. (havnt read book one in ages so anyone help me out on exact wording, will admit my argument is based on fuzzy recollection) and the whole tinker thing was TWO PAGES! one of the major viewings min had since book one is over in a couple of pages? that would be a horrible let down. i call bet!  100 RJ dollars that the beggar thing has not occured yet! seriously all he had was his new jacket, the CK, and. . thats it. no mention of a beggar staff or eyes covered with a cloth.    its almost as big a let down as perrin getting rid of the axe,  i remember reading that and not thinking about it until much later, the impact just wasnt there.

 

the taint being magnified via callandor, i agree, but then why does he mention several times about how its flawed in his POV and think that the CK is superior(this is all post cleansing)?  damnit dont have the book on hand but even rand thinks there is something wrong with callandor, even if it is weaker then the CK.  yes he is AoL level skill, but alivia is four hundred years old and knows every battle weave there is from seanchen, she may not be as diversified as rand but can you imagine anyone else that is as experienced in battle?  so what if a woman controls it? dont remember exact wording so will hold off until then.

 

the whole LTT thing never been there. . i understand your interpretation and while i dont disagree that LTT the voice wasnt there based upon rand's wording, i think the memories, new weaves, recognition of forsaken implied some presence/influence by LTT or at least the previous incarnations. doesnt it say how he remembers ALL the lives of the previous champion? which leads to the 'chance to love again' statment.  

 

When he is talking with moridin, he calls him elan and they both talk to each other as if they are LTT and ishmael, but moridin insists that rand refer to him as Moridin, not ishmael.  

I think its like moridin remembering Ishmael's life,  moridin IS different from Ishy just as Rand is different from LTT, but similar in their potential to recall and influence future selves.  so that still allows LTT to 'not be real' while allowing rand to merge with him, or rather merge with the previous champions.  

 

I havnt ruled out the rand merging with Moridin thing yet, i actually think it makes a lot more sense but if thats the case, rand is not one of the 'three merging' with the sword of light. if you take LTT out of e equation then rand has to merge with moridin to fit min's viewing, and the three are something else. maybe rand, seachen damane, and *** but above is STILL more plausable then graendal being alive!

 

When i post i assume that people are like me and have a life, they may not have read every page in the forum or may even have memories that leads them to forget something (i wish i had didantic memory) I dont try to point that out and use it as an argument to try to belittle someone (which would just make me look like a complete ass)  but then i shouldnt expect everyone to be just like me, because there are people that really dont have anything better to do

[Dolphineus]

On another matter ... Callandor.  Is it possible Callandor is an angreal for the True Power?

 

No. You would have had to have all those AS who made it be darkfriends with intimate knowledge of how the TP works.

 

Maybe they did.  Were the Forsaken the only Aes Sedai who went over?  The Forsaken all went over very publicly, and they were all very powerful Aes Sedai, but were they the only ones?  We know Callandor dates from the Age of Legends, at the very least, we know it was present during the breaking (it is seen during Rand's history lesson on the Aiel in Rhuidean).

 

Rather than Callandor being an angreal for the True Power, I was thinking more that it was possible to use Callandor with either the One Power or the True Power.

 

We know that Callandor is flawed, and we know that there are prophecies about using it still to be fulfilled. My big question about Callandor is why is it flawed?  We have never heard of another angreal or sa'angreal being flawed in this way.  Did the Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends just screw it up?  We don't run into any other objects using the power the are broken like this.  Sure, Elayne makes a few that are imperfect, but she is starting from scratch, no manual, no teacher, no saidin to work with.  Why is Callandor the only object of the power that is flawed?  Maybe it is not flawed.  Maybe, it is just different.  Maybe it is "flawed" because it was designed to be used with the True Power, and when you use it with the One Power, it works, but not like a normal angreal. 

 

This is all just pure speculation based on a few of the comments about Callandor in The Gathering Storm.  But I think there is something else to Callandor.

[µ231282083275]

re: grandael if she is dead then i'm certainly fine with it - rand's plan was a good one and it was a big turning point in his transformation into a monster and it makes a lot of sense in story for this to have happened.  BUT it just doesn't sit right on a meta level for me.  not because there haven't been ambiguous forsaken deaths before but because of all the little inconsistencies scattered throughout the novel

 

a) the strange emphasis on moridin's messenger's appearance in the prologue.  which seemed to match the description of the one locked in the basement  

b) the difference btw the description of the fortress/palace in LoC and tGS

c) moridin's elevation of grandael, the time spent on his instructions to her to break rand emotionally.  why set all this up just to kill her off screen?

d) the compulsion that was used on the domani fop seems too obvious. i have to hunt it down but in one her povs im certain that grandael muses about most messengers and guests not penetrating that deep into her sanctum?  wouldn't she just put on her lady basene disguise and play him off or even refuse to meet with him?  or simply flee right away, as she has repeatedly said she would?  

 

it makes no sense to me that grandael would hammer that dude with compulsion (essentially announcing her presence in the fort) then sit around waiting for rand to make a move.  she would either compel the messenger to offer an alliance w/rand or open a gateway and bounce.    

 

my pet theory is that the darkfriends were a plant of moridin's.  he knows that rand wants the forsaken and conveniently lets slip that the only way to kill them is with balefire.   he has the spider or a black sister bait the trap and then sets up a decoy in that fort.  we know that the DO wants balefire unleashed and we know that moridin has ensured that rand will be using balefire if he thinks he is facing one of the forsaken.  they may not have expected quite the level of destruction they got but the whole thing seemed designed to serve the shadow

[algspkr]

Maybe they did.  Were the Forsaken the only Aes Sedai who went over?  The Forsaken all went over very publicly, and they were all very powerful Aes Sedai, but were they the only ones?  We know Callandor dates from the Age of Legends, at the very least, we know it was present during the breaking (it is seen during Rand's history lesson on the Aiel in Rhuidean).

 

All Aes Sedai who went to the shadow during the Age of Legends were called forsaken.  There were thousands, as all evidence suggests that there were tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends, and about half of them went to the Shadow.

 

Thirteen were trapped in the bore when LTT sealed it; they are the ones we know and love.

[Lord_of_the_Morning]

My main comments and replies to various posts....

 

-  Graendal is definitely dead.

-  the old Rand is back.  the Dragon himself.

-  Olver is Gaidal Cain and will have a role during Operation Ghenji

-  The Gholam will FEAST in Caemlyn.

-  Lan will have gathered the Remnants of Malkier and the Free Borderland Peasants at Tarwin's Gap.  

-  Rand will feel Egwene's anger after she finds out Fortuona ordered the attack on the White Tower after their failed parley.  I thought that parley went fairly well considering Nyn's outbursts.  I think Rand will bow next time he meets her, as he has Returned to the Light.

-  Beggar Prophecy is only half over...  When Rand comes down off Dragonmount, he's going to have to beg here and there to those that he's crossed in the past.  He won't be literally BEGGING, but he will be doing some apologizing and coming around to various people...  Min, Cadsuane, the Maidens, the Borderlanders, TAM, Fortuona...  etc.

 

I wonder if we've seen the end of the BloodKnives??

[JehanSedai]

People are giving entirely too much credit to Graenal and not enough to Rand. That was his only option there and it was such a good plan none of us saw it coming. How would she have?

 

She's smarter than us.  We didn't see it coming, but the Light help everyone, she is smart enough to have anticipated this.  And like someone quoted already, if al'Thor ever knew where she was, she would simply up and leave.  More, she likely had intel from Moridin regarding Semirhage's failure.

[lillcheese]

 

-  Olver is Gaidal Cain and will have a role during Operation Ghenji

 

 

RJ specifically said, numerous times, that Olver is NOT Gaidal.  The timeline does not add up.

 

We don't know that Graendal is "definitely" dead until we have it from her POV and/or confirmation from BS.