Who is the Greatest General alive?

[Blaine]

Well in my opinion Mat is probably first, with Rand/LTT & Demandred tied for second. The rest of them are probably about a tie.

 

Mat first because of all the memories and LTT and Demandred second because of their experience in the AoL.

 

Of the rest, it is hard to place one above the other because we haven't really seen them fight much.

 

 

[LedZepMan]

I would say that the generals today have way more experience. In the AoL war was all but unknown untl the War of Shadow. Definately gonna have to go with either Mat or Gareth Bryne.

[Terrick]

Hands down Mat.  He has all the memories of so many Generals, plus his luck.

 

Kind of a trick question if you ask me :P

[Chance]

Having voted for Mat, I wonder if LTT wasn't better. Placing Rand and LTT together may not be right. I don't beleive that Rand and LTT should be put together. LTT may very well be better than Mat. LTT is being hindered by Rand right now; LTT did close-up the Dark One. So far noone else can say that. All things being considered.

 

 

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Well yeah, but we have no evidence of Rand learning warfare from LTT. He actually says in one of the later books while the Aiel and his other 'allies' are planning the invasion of Illian that they made the plan, and he just approved it.

[Chance]

Well yeah, but we have no evidence of Rand learning warfare from LTT. He actually says in one of the later books while the Aiel and his other 'allies' are planning the invasion of Illian that they made the plan, and he just approved it.

 

I agree. I think Rand knows there are others better than him at conventional warfare. But he did learn to break the weaves when in the box, and I believe there have been other times that LTT "taught" or just did a weave, that Rand "learned". At times, I would like to see LTT and Mat go head to head. Ta'vern v. Ta'vern. The ultimate in UFC. That would be fight to pay money for.

[buckeyebull64]

Well, if we don't pair LTT with Rand, then he's not alive, right?

 

I'd say Mat takes it hands down.  he's never lost personally, and thats facing many hard odds.

 

After that, we don't have much info on the Great Captains, but i'd list Aglemar right before Bashere for second, the reason being they both fought endless battles in the blight. Aglemar gets the nod because of tarwin's gap, which means he probibly faced more trollocs more frequently.  Bashere certainly seems adaptable, though.

 

After that, we havent really seen Bryan or Rodel fight, and Naill is dead.  Since Rodell seems able to move quickly and undetected, while winning, I'll give him the nod over Bryan, even though those qualities have not been expected of Bryan in his situation (all we've seen is a siuge from him.)

 

Rand really hasn't commanded.  He seems above that, and in battle is more of a prize fighter or a figurehead than a commander.  The forsaken also don't really command as much as they work behind the scenes.

 

There are also a few not considered...like say Ruriuc (sp), Bridgett (sp) or some seanchan commanders

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Birgitte, (Bridgett), says herself she is not a general. Rhuarc is a Clan Chief, and pretty much all the Aiel did pre-Rand was war, so I imagine he knows his stuff. We haven't really seen enough of Seanchan commanders to put them into the running, though we do know that they all follow at least some of the guidelines that the 'great generals' follow (that was said in one of the later books I believe). Rodel Ituralde seems like a more than good general, as he plans an entire invasion across a huge area with limited time, and formulates a plan behind that one to pull the Seanchan into Arad Doman and crush them there, while liberating Tarabon from the Seanchan, while also taking care of the Dragonsworn issue, while also having another plan behind that. So yeah, I'd say hes pretty good.... But he's still no Mat :P.

[dholm]

Mat is without a doubt the greatest general currently alive. Military and war was at its height around the time of Artur Hawkwing, and he has many memories from that time.

 

The five great generals are without a doubt good, but they cannot hold a candle to Mat. Their experience is but a candle besides the sun compared to his.

 

Rand isn't much of a general yet, but that's not surprising; he has no experience (except for the little that has been passed through from LTT). He has decent instincts, though. Perrin is much the same.

 

Demandred -- eh. He might be good, but we don't really have any solid information about him. Considering that they had to reinvent war, though, I doubt he'd match any of the five great generals.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Mat is without a doubt the greatest general currently alive. Military and war was at its height around the time of Artur Hawkwing, and he has many memories from that time.

 

The five great generals are without a doubt good, but they cannot hold a candle to Mat. Their experience is but a candle besides the sun compared to his.

 

Rand isn't much of a general yet, but that's not surprising; he has no experience (except for the little that has been passed through from LTT). He has decent instincts, though. Perrin is much the same.

 

Demandred -- eh. He might be good, but we don't really have any solid information about him. Considering that they had to reinvent war, though, I doubt he'd match any of the five great generals.

 

Well if we are going to talk about how AOL'ers reinvented war, doesn't it make sense that they would be the best AT war? Also I seem to remember Demandred being accounted one of the Shadow's best generals, while not as good as LTT (which he never was), still as close as it has been gotten to. Then again, the person who invents something is not always the best at it. There are always people innovating on inventions, adding things, taking things away, making it work better, making it more efficent, making it easier, simpler.

 

On the subject of Perrin, he does have great instincts doesn't he? He pretty much single-handedly comes up with a plan within a month or two's time to take down a LOT of Shaido (forget exact number) and about 200 Wise Ones that can channel with about 1/5 of the force right?

[buckeyebull64]

Perrin's proven to be a good planner, but what keeps him off the list is one thing: for all his carefull though and dislike of violence, he dives headfirst into each major battle he's in, whether it's Two River, saving Rand, or saving Faile.  You'll never catch any of the others doing that, and not because their cowards, but because they know they have to command rather than fight, or a lot more of their men will die.

[sheikh chilli]

Toss up between Demandred and mat.

[Muad Cheade]

Technically, I would say Mat simply because he has the memories of numerous generals and many of them fought with or against Artur Hawkwing, arguably the greatest general ever so there's a source for military tactics right there.

 

You can't really group Rand with LTT. Rand, I believe, is an good general, not great. LTT however is the greatest general from the AoL. He tells Rand in PoD that he's never lost a battle, he's won hundreds of battles and gave orders that led to hundreds of victories, so he would be the greatest "alive." We have seen that the line between Rand and LTT is being blurred (Rand can draw as well as LTT, memories, etc) so it would be cool to see LTT "advising" Rand in batle or something.

 

Demandred is possibly the second greatest general of the AoL so he'd be very much high on the list. Also when you face him in battle you're going against one of the most powerful and lethal channelers of the AoL.

 

Agelmar Jagad and Davram Bashere I group together because of the constant warfare in the Borderlands. They are pretty good generals but I'd place Bashere over Jagad simply because most of the more epic battles were due to Bashere's planning (Battle of Illian and the Battle against the Seanchan).

 

Rodel Itrualde is one of my favorite commanders. He always seems to have a Plan A and if that doesn't work, he has a Plan B, C, D, E, and F. His campaign against the Seanchan was pretty great. Especially the end were he trapped the large Seanchan army between two of his.

 

Gareth Bryne is a great leader simply put. We haven't really seen him in action but the way he's organized Egwene's army with mixes of light, heavy and archer cavalry was very genius.

 

Ishmael wasn't really a commander in the Ao and it's been said a few times that LTT defeated him at the Gates of Para Disen (whatever that is). However, he'd probably be a decent general.

 

So my list would be:

 

LTT (depending on how you see it)

Matrim Cauthon

Demandred

Davram Bashere

Rodel Ituralde

Agelmar Jagad

Gareth Bryne

Rand al'Thor

Ishamael

 

One thing I noticed was the absence of Perrin. He's proven to be a good leader and effective general. I would like to put Lan on the list but we've haven't really seen him lead armies into battle. Also, Galgan, the Seanchan general who seems to be in charge of all the armies seems to be the Seanchan's best commander so he'd probably be close to the Five Great Captains.

 

 

[Phariah]

Mat hands down ;D

Rand/LTT would be up here second imo  ;)

( Rand did put together that raid on the Seanshan invading Illian, 8) well till he blew up his own army that is  ::) )

[Duffy Pratt]

Based on what we've seen so far, some consideration should be given to Mazrim Taim.  He's assembled and trained what looks to be the most powerful army, and he commanded them effectively at Dumai Wells.  Of course, if Taim is Demandred, then a bunch of folks have already voted for him.

 

Still, the odds on favorite is Mat.  But face it, Mat's band would get wiped out in a few minutes by Taim's soldiers.  What Mat will be able to do leading the entire Sanchean force including its channelers should be fun to read.  (That's assuming Jordan/Sanderson doesn't let me down on this point.)

[Thorum]

Mat of course.

 

He's got all the tactical and military skills of a couple of thousand magnificent warriors.

 

While any of the others would qualify as a "magnificent warrior", they do not as a couple of thousand of them.

[dholm]

You can't really group Rand with LTT. Rand, I believe, is an good general, not great. LTT however is the greatest general from the AoL. He tells Rand in PoD that he's never lost a battle, he's won hundreds of battles and gave orders that led to hundreds of victories, so he would be the greatest "alive." We have seen that the line between Rand and LTT is being blurred (Rand can draw as well as LTT, memories, etc) so it would be cool to see LTT "advising" Rand in batle or something.

First off, I'm fairly certain Mat has commanded more battles than Lews Therin through his memories. He has around fifteen hundred years worth of memories in his head. That's half the time since the Breaking. Not continuous, of course, but still.

 

Secondly, while I agree that Lews Therin was probably a very good tactician, he and the others from the Age of Legends had to reinvent war. You do not polish off a thing like warfare in ten years, or even fifty. It takes centuries, if not millennia.

 

Demandred is possibly the second greatest general of the AoL so he'd be very much high on the list. Also when you face him in battle you're going against one of the most powerful and lethal channelers of the AoL.

I'm certain he is very good, but that doesn't make him the equal of the five great generals. When everyone else is an idiot, even an average guy can seem like a genius.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Based on what we've seen so far, some consideration should be given to Mazrim Taim.  He's assembled and trained what looks to be the most powerful army, and he commanded them effectively at Dumai Wells.  Of course, if Taim is Demandred, then a bunch of folks have already voted for him.

 

Still, the odds on favorite is Mat.  But face it, Mat's band would get wiped out in a few minutes by Taim's soldiers.  What Mat will be able to do leading the entire Sanchean force including its channelers should be fun to read.  (That's assuming Jordan/Sanderson doesn't let me down on this point.)

 

Small correction, its been confirmed by RJ that Taim is not Demandred, and Demandred is not Taim.

[Paladin]

I would say that Matt wins hands down.

he has the experience of hundreds of warriors and best of all he has the memories from both the winning and the losing sides.

 

There are times when you can learn more from losing a battle than winning it. Mat knows warfare like no one else, he knows exactly what each division is cable of, be it Archers, cavalry, Infantry.

 

Mat has his memories and his own innate intelligence to be able to put it to use.

 

During the battle for Carhein Matt walked into the commanders tent and in a matter of moments came up with the same battle plan that the Aiel, Lan & Rand spent all day planning.

 

Later in the same battle he saw the Carheinen forces about to be overwhelmed and not only managed to keep them alive but also took command from seasoned soldiers and led the small force for the rest of the battle.

 

Mat has the experience, the intellegince, and the temperment to lead any army to victory.

 

He who knows his enemy and himself well will not be defeated easily. He who knows himself but not his enemy, will have an even chance of victory. He who does not know himself and his enemy, is bound to suffer defeat in all battles - Sun Tzu.  The Art of War

 

could have been written with Mat in mind

[Hybrid]

Mat, for reasons obviously stated.

 

Demandred has a very high opinion of himself, but we haven't really seen any evidence of his claims.

[Mr Ares]

Well if we are going to talk about how AOL'ers reinvented war, doesn't it make sense that they would be the best AT war?

No. After all, it could take a while for the art to be perfected.

 

Based on what we've seen so far, some consideration should be given to Mazrim Taim. He's assembled and trained what looks to be the most powerful army, and he commanded them effectively at Dumai Wells.

Not through any feat of great generalship, though. His tactics tend towards blunt force, which can be effective, but are hardly the hallmark of a great general. The thing to assess is, given parity of forces, who would win? Taim would win if he was using a channeler army against a non-channler army, but if both or neither had channelers, in roughly equal numbers, would Taim win? Given he has yet to show any subtlety or tactical flair, it is doubtful. On the other hand, Mat is competent genral, with experince of a number of different forces, and has shown an ability to incorporate new soldiers and technologies into his army. Adaptability is the hallmark of the Great-Captains, and also the Seanchan.

Of course, if Taim is Demandred, then a bunch of folks have already voted for him.

He isn't. RJ shot that one down years ago.

 

He who knows his enemy and himself well will not be defeated easily. He who knows himself but not his enemy, will have an even chance of victory. He who does not know himself and his enemy, is bound to suffer defeat in all battles - Sun Tzu.  Tha Art of War

 

could have been written with Mat in mind

I think it is perhaps more likely that Mat's generalship was written with that in mind. Although, I'm not ruling out Sun Tzu having read Wheel of Time.

 

As it is, I'd say Mat could give any of them a run for their money given a level playing field in forces and equipment.

[Thor]

there is no 'greatest'.

 

the last guy standing alive, is the greatest.  hawkwing was the greatest of his time, because he was the last one standing.

 

since they are all still alive, you can't say which one is more skilled or whatever.  and personally i hope we never find out.

[jozan]

Just wanna point out about Sun Tzu having read wheel of time would be impossible as he lived during 544 bc, so yeah. Impossible.  :)

 

Hm..who's the better general? Hard to say, we haven't seen what everyone is really capable of yet and may never know. Besides even the greatest will lose at some point, no-one can win always. With Mat, well..with his luck he probably can't lose and along with his memories..he'd probably be too hard to beat..unless you use the one power to win.

 

But, if Rand actually uses Lews memories, and his one power skills..I think he'd be a very very dangerous opponent.  ;D

[Dark Justice]

Id say Mat wins, but I did not vote him. Cause Mat "cheated". Its not Mats experience and knowledge that makes him a great general. Its the experience and memory of all those OTHER generals...

 

I voted Ituralde. I know too little of Jagad to vote for him. What Ituralde has accomplished with the small amount of troops he has is nothing but astonishing.

[dholm]

Just wanna point out about Sun Tzu having read wheel of time would be impossible as he lived during 544 bc, so yeah. Impossible.  :)

What is impossible is only impossible until it has been done. Can you prove Sun Tzu didn't read Wheel of Time?