Siuan's Talent for seeing ta'veren

[Mashiara Sedai]

In the first few chapters of The Great Hunt, Siuan tells Moiraine that she has a Talent for seeing ta'veren (which leads me to assume that she must have seen another ta'veren at some point in her life to know she has that Talent... but that's another story.)

 

The fact that she has this Talent escaped my memory until I was rereading.  When thinking of channelers able to see ta'veren, I just think of Nicola and Logain.

 

However, my question is, since Siuan was stilled and Healed, does she keep the same Talents?  Can she still see the glow around the ta'veren?  Do any channelers' Talents have to do with strength (all the neatest Talents seem to be from the most powerful channelers)?  Will having less of the Power effect any of these Talents she has or Talents she can learn?

 

 

~Mashiara

[Neemo]

i am wondering if nyneave is a lesser ta'veren ... weird shit seems to happen around her all the time

 

 

[Kaznen]

I thinkn she does.  She can heal just as well as before.  I think she kept the same talents she just can use the raw power she once had.

 

By that note I think Logain still has the talent also.

[Talmanes]

The power doesn't necessarily influence Talents. When Nynaeve and Elayne are held by the Kin a woman that is very weak holds them both with shields because she is very good at that Talent. She boasts that she could even hold one of the Forsaken.

[Majsju]

i am wondering if nyneave is a lesser ta'veren ... weird shit seems to happen around her all the time

 

 

 

Nope, she is not. According to RJ, none of the major female characters are ta'veren.

However, keep in mind that Nynaeve, as well as Egwene, has a strong connection to three very strong ta'veren. Would be quite odd if they did not get caught up in those swirls every now and then.

[Mashiara Sedai]

For a hypothetical example:

 

Say Elayne were stilled then Healed by a woman.  Her power drops to... does it ever say exactly what the ratio is?  I'm going to assume for my purposes that it drops her down to half of what she was.

 

With her new strength can she made the angreal that she was able to do before?  It seems like that Talent would be linked to her strength in the OP.  If she can't handle enough of the Power, she can't make all the flows, hence she looses the Talent.

 

Does that make sense, or am I over analyzing?

 

~Mashiara

[Gentled Ben]

i am wondering if nyneave is a lesser ta'veren ... weird shit seems to happen around her all the time

 

 

 

Nope, she is not. According to RJ, none of the major female characters are ta'veren.

However, keep in mind that Nynaeve, as well as Egwene, has a strong connection to three very strong ta'veren. Would be quite odd if they did not get caught up in those swirls every now and then.

I can totally see Mat giving both girls a swirly.

[Arath Faringal]

For a hypothetical example:

 

Say Elayne were stilled then Healed by a woman.  Her power drops to... does it ever say exactly what the ratio is?  I'm going to assume for my purposes that it drops her down to half of what she was.

 

With her new strength can she made the angreal that she was able to do before?  It seems like that Talent would be linked to her strength in the OP.  If she can't handle enough of the Power, she can't make all the flows, hence she looses the Talent.

 

Does that make sense, or am I over analyzing?

 

It would make sense for some talents, but maybe not for others.  Weaving the winds is probably one that would be much harder if you lost strength.  Making ter'angreal ... I don't think it would be affected as much.  Look at the rebel Aes Sedai and their cuendillar production.  There are a few who can do it, but Leane is the best at it after Egwene, and she lost more than half of her strength.  Ter'angreal production is probably similar.

[Titan Orion]

Which books were out when RJ said no major females were Ta'veren? Since recently I cant help thinking Egwene could be. Two girls at Salidar threatened to blackmail her and then suddenly were swearing fealty after a very crap bollocking from Egwene, and Gareth Bryne seems a bit too eager to give Egwene alone control over the army.

[Majsju]

Which books were out when RJ said no major females were Ta'veren? Since recently I cant help thinking Egwene could be. Two girls at Salidar threatened to blackmail her and then suddenly were swearing fealty after a very crap bollocking from Egwene, and Gareth Bryne seems a bit too eager to give Egwene alone control over the army.

 

All books were out. Of course, if people run out on things to talk about, they could always start arguing about which characters that should be considered 'major' ;D

[Titan Orion]

Which books were out when RJ said no major females were Ta'veren? Since recently I cant help thinking Egwene could be. Two girls at Salidar threatened to blackmail her and then suddenly were swearing fealty after a very crap bollocking from Egwene, and Gareth Bryne seems a bit too eager to give Egwene alone control over the army.

 

All books were out. Of course, if people run out on things to talk about, they could always start arguing about which characters that should be considered 'major' ;D

 

Do you have the quote where RJ says this Maj? Since Ive been thinking Egwene became Ta'veren for a loooong time, Id like to see his words myself. Not that I dont believe you or anything, just one of those things

[Majsju]

It is in the blog, happy hunting.

[Mandragoran]

Two girls at Salidar threatened to blackmail her and then suddenly were swearing fealty after a very crap bollocking from Egwene

Not the same pair. Nicola and Areina blackmailed her, Theodrin and Faolain swore fealty.

 

 

[Master Norry]

Which books were out when RJ said no major females were Ta'veren? Since recently I cant help thinking Egwene could be. Two girls at Salidar threatened to blackmail her and then suddenly were swearing fealty after a very crap bollocking from Egwene, and Gareth Bryne seems a bit too eager to give Egwene alone control over the army.

 

All books were out. Of course, if people run out on things to talk about, they could always start arguing about which characters that should be considered 'major' ;D

 

Do you become ta'veren?

 

Do you have the quote where RJ says this Maj? Since Ive been thinking Egwene became Ta'veren for a loooong time, Id like to see his words myself. Not that I dont believe you or anything, just one of those things

[Arath Faringal]

If Egwene was ta'veren, Siuan probably would have said something by now.

[Mr Ares]

However, my question is, since Siuan was stilled and Healed, does she keep the same Talents?

Yes.

Do any channelers' Talents have to do with strength (all the neatest Talents seem to be from the most powerful channelers)?

No. For example, Sumeko is nowhere near as strong as Nynaeve, but still a good Healer, better than many stronger than her, and Samitsu is the best Healer the AS have but is not as strong as Nynaeve either.

 

Leane is the best at it after Egwene, and she lost more than half of her strength.

I strongly suggest you get rid of that, because this is an argument you don't want to get into.

 

Do you become ta'veren?

Yes.

[Arath Faringal]

I strongly suggest you get rid of that, because this is an argument you don't want to get into.

 

Why?  Both parts of it are true. 

 

In Crossroads of Twilight, Chapter 17, Egwene comments on the progress a Blue sister named Kairen is making on the Cuendillar weave.  Janya Sedai says:

 

She is improving; in some things ... Of course, I doubt she'll catch Leane unless she applies herself, much less yourself, Mother.  Young Bodewhin might catch her, in fact.  I wouldn't want to be outdone by a novice, myself, but I suppose some don't feel that way."

 

So Leane is better, kind of the standard by which they are judging people.  Musing to herself, Eqwene notes that it would have to be Leane and Kairen who did the job on the chains.

 

In Chapter 30 though, Kairen has been murdered by Aran'gar, and Egwene has to rework her plan.

 

Now the next best after Leane was Bode Cauthon.  A novice

 

Days later, and Leane is still best at it after Egwene.

 

As far as being less than half of her former strength, Lord of Chaos, Chapter 30:

 

Leane shook her head.  "No one has ever been healed from stilling before.  Maybe the others will see it, say like being wilders.  That puts you a little lower than your strength.  Maybe having been weaker will count something.  If Nynaeve couldn't Heal us all the way the first time, maybe she'll only take us to two-thirds what we were, or half.  Even that would be better than now, but still most here would be as strong, and a good many stronger."  Elayne stared, more confused than before.  Nynaeve looked as if she'd been hit between the eyes.

 

Getting up to half of what they were implies that they are currently less than half of what they were.  Unless I missed the part where they were healed some more, that hasn't changed.

 

So enlighten me.  How is my statement wrong?

[Carteeg_Struve]

i am wondering if nyneave is a lesser ta'veren ... weird shit seems to happen around her all the time

 

 

 

Nope, she is not. According to RJ, none of the major female characters are ta'veren.

However, keep in mind that Nynaeve, as well as Egwene, has a strong connection to three very strong ta'veren. Would be quite odd if they did not get caught up in those swirls every now and then.

 

I was under the impression that Nynaeve was 'almost' ta'veren. If there is some way to rank strength of being a ta'veren, then there might be some threshold measurement where somebody above it is ta'veren and somebody less than isn't. But there may be a low "ta'veren score" for those who technically aren't ta'veren.

 

Also I faintly remember a comment (can't remember where or by who) that suggested that Nynaeve was close to being one but wasn't.

 

But the one thing I want to know is, if ta'veren are really that rare (one or a few every couple of generations), how did Suian come to know she had this Talent anyway?

 

 

"I have the ability to see invisible mushroom men from Venus."

"You've seen invisible mushroom men from Venus?"

"Nope. Never had in my life."

"..."

 

[Talmanes]

She has apparently seen one before.

[Mashiara Sedai]

I think that while some of the "major characters" may have thick threads in the weave of the Pattern, they aren't ta'veren.  They might have more influence or better luck, but that's just because they are important threads.  If every other person started being ta'veren, then the whole point of them would become useless.  Ta'veren are rare and special.  The fact that there are three at once is unheard of.  To add more to that would just be strange and probably make the Pattern fall apart.  I think RJ just said that to get us arguing amongst ourselves.

 

Can you have a Talent and realize you have it, without actually using it?  I mean, what if Suian could tell she could see ta'veren without really seeing one.  She's barely over 40 years old (right?).  I'm not sure that a ta'veren would have been around in her lifetime other than the three.

 

~Mashiara

[dubz]

I think Siuan must have seen a ta'veren or else how would she know she has the talent.  The only way they found out that Nicola has the talent was when Mat walked into Salidar (one of my favorite scenes) and she saw the glow around him.

So, Siuan must have seen a ta'veren sometime in her life and the only person I can think of who could be a ta'veren was the Murandian rebel lord who was supposed to unite Murandy but instead was shot by the farmer on the horse raid.  Altough, I can't remember if she said she saw him or if it was a foretelling that told her about him.

[Titan Orion]

Two girls at Salidar threatened to blackmail her and then suddenly were swearing fealty after a very crap bollocking from Egwene

Not the same pair. Nicola and Areina blackmailed her, Theodrin and Faolain swore fealty.

 

 

 

Okay so I need to pay more attention. Cheers.

 

Did Siuan see Janduin that we know of? Could he be the Ta'veren she first saw?

[Majsju]

 

 

Did Siuan see Janduin that we know of? Could he be the Ta'veren she first saw?

 

Not a chance. As seen in New Spring, novices were not allowed anywhere near the fighting. And once the war was over, Janduin went to the Blight, and died there.

 

Altough, I can't remember if she said she saw him or if it was a foretelling that told her about him.

 

Or simply a political analysis. Siuan was after all raised from the Blue Ajah...

[Neemo]

She has apparently seen one before.

 

Gitara Moroso?

[balefireruinssteaks]

Gitara was not ta'veren, she was just an Aes Sedai who had the Fortelling.

 

I think Talents are Talents and unless they are specifically about strength (Traveling, for example is a Talent one needs strength for) then whether you're strong or not wouldn't affect the skill of your talent.

 

I've often thought about how one defines Talents though because of just that.

 

Why is Traveling a Talent rather than just something an Aes Sedai can do?  As opposed to a "talent" for Healing, or creating cuendillar, or creating ter'angreal.  These things are more skills/talents.  I've never understood why Traveling was considered a Talent I guess...are some Aes Sedai better at Traveling than others?  The only thing I can think of is that the size of the gateway defines the "skill" of the Talent for Traveling.

 

Compulsion I can see as a Talent in that one would need dexterious skill to manipulate a person's mind.  Liandrin vs. Graendal in Compulsion for example.