The Dark One's death

[CUBAREY]

There were other Ages before that, with other conflicts (Merc and Mosc duelling with spears of fire), Shai'tan isn't needed for them, is He?

 

No, but we onlt know that there was no knowledge of the DO for most of AOL we know nothing of the knowledge in other ages. Except of course that Merc and Mosc are believed to be referring to America and Moscow in our own age and in our own age many of us do believe in the existence of the DO which we call Satan and which in Judeo-Christian theology shares many of the same traits opf Sha'tan. Thus, it could be (and I would argue) that only in the AOL is the DO not known.

[Avery]

The common belief in a great evil that exists in our age is nothing like what the Randlanders have. They don't believe in the Dark One, they (all of them!) know of him. They have proof of him and his minions, and he actively affects their lives. If we are truely an age of the Wheel of Time's cycle, the Dark One is unknown in this age too. Therefore, he is unknown in more ages than just the Age of Legends. Assuming 3000 years per age, that's plenty of time to forget about the Dark One before someone goes fishing again.

[SqueeEGA]

I do believe Avery is correct.  Consider how Tuon doesnt believe in trollocs even though they were eradicated in seanchan during this age.  thats less than 1000 years for them to have faded to myth.  when the 4th age comes most will remember, for a while, but after 1000 years will they?  Or will they just be fanciful children's tales?  Possibly by the end of the 4th age little will be left of the DO in memory, so we have 5, 6, 7, 1 and 2 w/o him...potentially.  This isnt to say that he doesnt rear his ugly ugly head in 6 and then forgotten again by the time 2 comes around.  We just do not have sufficient information to determine how many ages will know the DO.

 

Now, Rand Al'Thor, I am working with less than credible information.  ie Ishy and the DO, but they have stated that this battle has raged since the beginning of time.  Perhaps a number of "3rd ages" have occurred where a rebirth of a hero has to redo the job he failed at in the previous age.  If Ishy is to be believed in this instance then all the past occurrences of TG went off in favor of the light and essentially happened similarly to all the others.  So what makes Rand al'Thor TDR more special than all of the others?  is this particular iteration more significant than all the others?  Or has RJ created something so beautifully constructed that it results in fanciful questions like this?  Are we on the verge of witnessing something truly unique to the turnings of the wheel or is this particular iteration just as good as any other?

[Fryn]

There is a falacy in thinking everything is always the same in a looped timelime. At somepoint there had to be a first turning of the wheel, and everything that happened in that turning was unique and different from the nothingness that was before.

 

We can assume this isn't the first turning because of references from Ishy through the DO's knowledge. Ishy is a very telling character =)

 

The only other significant turning will be the last turning, unless the turnings slightly alter every time to a position that is more favorable for the DO, at which point a more agressive turning needs to result to pull the pattern back into line.

 

The question then returns is this just a normal turning?

[Roxinos]

We can assume this isn't the first turning because of references from Ishy through the DO's knowledge. Ishy is a very telling character =)

 

I believe it was RJ who said incredulously, "You really believe everything Ishamael says?"

 

Ishamael was a Chosen. The highest of them, he probably would have been Nae'blis had Lews Therin not done his thing and sealed away the Chosen and the Great Lord. In fact, he later did become Nae'blis. So why are you trusting the second highest leader of the Shadow under the Great Lord's word?

[Fryn]

The question remains. Is this a story just like a normal turning, the first turning, a balance point turning, or the last turning.

 

If it is a normal turning then it is a given that the light will win. If it is a normal turning that means that the previous turnings the light won and will do so again this time =)

[Sabio]

Well Ishy usually mixed his lies with some truth.  He of all the Forsaken would know if this is a never ending turning since he was the one of the greatest if not the greatest philospher of his time.  He has even told the multiple battle idea to the other forsaken, and yes they will lie to each other but to me doesn't seem like a lie that one would bother to tell to the Forskaen since what would it gain him?

 

Plus Fel before getting turned into goo was backing the the cycles will repeat themselves theory.

[Cockta]

Well, we know for sure that this isn't the first Age, because befreo this age, was AOL. I don't believe everything IShy says, and that is why I believe something big is going to happen in this Age I don't know what, even barely who, but something big is going to happen, something extraordinary.

[Fryn]

I think you are missunderstanding. There are 7 ages to a turning of the wheel. The 7th leads into the 1st and it repeats itself. Some of the ages don't even have humanity. What we are talking about is if it is the first turning of the wheel. We aren't worried about which age it is. We are wondering if there is somethign special about this specific turning of the wheel. Not if there is somethign special about this age.

[Cockta]

Then the seventh age would be the special one, but we don't know anything, so any age might be special, and we are back to square one.

[Mr Ares]

Exactly, and the Pattern is set up in a way that there remains a balance between Light and Dark. If Dark is winning, it'll spawn one of the Heroes to set things straight. If Light is winning, a certain string of events lead to couple of key figures turning to the Shadow. It's how it works.

It's probably a bit more complex than that.

 

In a way, you could see it as a boat. Tip it far to one side, and it'll rock far to the other side before (eventually) evening itself out again in the middle. The DO knows this, and it's why he wants to destroy the pattern before his forces are hit with the Pattern's recoil in restoring the balance again, should he manage to break free.

But Shai'tan would be less like one of the sailors on the boat and more like the creature rising from the depths to drag everyone to their doom. Seems like trusting that enough people will side against the monster is perhaps not the wisest decision ever made.

 

Given that the reason the Wheel was originally made to contain something that existed outside it, yes.

Was it indeed? Quotes.

The Creator created the Wheel of Time, which is time itself. The Creator imprisoned the Dark One outside of the Pattern at the moment of creation.

Not what I asked for. Roxinos has the right of it. All we know of the extent of Shai'tan's imprisonment is that He is unable to touch the Wheel. Complete freedom apart from that. So when the Wheel was created, it was put beyond His reach. Which is not to say that the Wheel itself was created for the express purpose of imprisoning anything, simply that it was created and the Creator didn't want it destroyed again right after. Like putting something on a high shelf so a child can't break it. The child is hardly imprisoned if the only limit on its freedom is an inability to reach the high shelf. The "prison" was made to keep Him away from the Pattern. The Pattern wasn't made to keep Him away from anything.

 

I may be a young mortal' date=' but you are nothing better than me. I don't know how old you are, but I presume that you are older than me, so you would just be an older mortal, nothing more, nothing less.[/quote']Debatable. I would say I am infinitely better than you. And I am far more than just an older mortal, even moreso if there was any truth in my great-great-grandfathers claims as to his paternity (there is a clue in the name).

As for the discussion, what I meant with the prison being a big tourist attraction, was that the place would be Shayol Ghul, because until now, everyone who has spoken with the DO, had to come to SG to speak to him. You can't speak with the DO in Cairhien, or Altara, you have to be inside SG to hear his voice. That is why all the forsaken come to SG to speak with the DO, because they can't speak with him wherever they are.

If you meant Shayol Ghul, maybe you should have said SG? Anyway, why should a world without a huge amount of tourism, a population that tends to stick near home or go where their work takes them, go to visit a volcano in the middle of nowhere after passing through who knows how many miles of empty land, uninhabited by anyone, to find a garrison stationed in the middle of nowhere to guard said volcano against no-one in particular for no good reason, except to stop some nasty people coming along to knock down a sign that nobody is going to come and see anyway? It beggars belief. And they are supposed to keep people from forgetting ever? How? People see the pyramids and they know the pyramids existed. Show them SG and they know a volcano exists there. Fine. *Points at Ben Nevis*. It exists. Now, believe there was a huge battle against an evil god there 10,000 years ago. Don't just take my word for it: *shows various bones* conclusive proof of the existence of an evil god! Therefore, everything I say must be true! I can even put up a sign to prove it! I trust you get the point.

I wonder why Rand never even have thought of tryin gto ask the Creator for help, to maybe get some knowlegde, so he may have some better chances. You know, a good old fashioned prayer

Why would you pray to a god you thought wouldn't lift a finger to help you?

 

BTW, Great Lord of the Dark, I seem to recall you declaring that you will not be participating here anymore?

Seems like we're not that lucky.

 

In our own age many of us do believe in the existence of the DO which we call Satan and which in Judeo-Christian theology shares many of the same traits of Sha'tan.

You believe in the existence of Satan, a fallen angel, but only one God. The Judeo-Christian tradition is, in this, very different from the dualistic theology of the books. The "DO" you believe in is thus very different from the one we are presented with in the books. And I believe the name Shai'tan is actually from Islamic mythology.

 

Well, we know for sure that this isn't the first Age, because before this age, was AOL.

Obviously you have never encountered RAW's AoL-is-part-of-the-Third-Age theory. Furthermore, the "Age of Legends" could have been the Seventh Age of the previous turning, with this "Third" as the first of the new. Of course, while there may be seven Ages to any given turning, who's to say that there is a First or Seventh Age beyond what men arbitrarily choose to call the First Age, etc.

 

Then the seventh age would be the special one.

Why?

we don't know anything

Speak for yourself.

 

Thats less than 1000 years for Shadowspawn in Seanchan to have faded to myth.

Unless they were destroyed by the Armies of the Night, before Luthair came. Then it would be longer.

[RAND AL THOR]

The answer to squeezeega's Q is thus: No matter what Age RJ chose to write on, we can wonder why he didn't take another. The past age would be hazy ( due to data loss over 1000 + yrs) so we are left assuming that this age (ie Rand's age) is more important in some way than the others. To tell the truth, LTT's age sounds more interesting due if RJ had written that as the book, it would have been more boring that this one (at least to me). I'm not contradicting myself. The events of the AoL were interesting but as a whole, I think a book based on that would be more boring than what we have.

 

 

[Majsju]

To tell the truth, LTT's age sounds more interesting due if RJ had written that as the book, it would have been more boring that this one (at least to me). I'm not contradicting myself. The events of the AoL were interesting but as a whole, I think a book based on that would be more boring than what we have.

 

I think that is something most people can agree on, and I believe it might be very much due to the classic fantasy formula.

 

The books we have focus on a group of young people who gets thrown into a series of events that ultimately will decide the fate of the world. We get to see them grow up, and pretty much all good fantasy has this element.

 

While if we had had books about the AOL, the main character would have been adults already in high positions. Of course, seeing them being forced to change from being leaders in a highly evolved and peaceful world, to being leaders fighting for the survival of the world has a bit of that character development, but nowhere near as fundamental.

 

Though, to play the "What if...?" game for a moment, imagine having a single novel about the War of Power as a prequel leading into the main sequence, now that would have been awesome :)

[Sabio]

I always wished RJ would of made a book about the sealing of the Bore.

[Thorum]

I always wished RJ would of made a book about the sealing of the Bore.

 

He actually did. And it is available online

[Sabio]

Ohhhhhhh any idea where to find it?

[Thorum]

The link I'd bookmarked it under doesn't work anymore. It's titled something like "The strike at Shayol Ghul"

 

Found another one :D Here

[Leopoled Boothe]

There were other Ages before that, with other conflicts (Merc and Mosc duelling with spears of fire), Shai'tan isn't needed for them, is He?

 

No, but we onlt know that there was no knowledge of the DO for most of AOL we know nothing of the knowledge in other ages. Except of course that Merc and Mosc are believed to be referring to America and Moscow in our own age and in our own age many of us do believe in the existence of the DO which we call Satan and which in Judeo-Christian theology shares many of the same traits opf Sha'tan. Thus, it could be (and I would argue) that only in the AOL is the DO not known.

 

Taken at face value Shai'tan could kick Satan's a$$!!!!!   Shai'tan is the equal but opposite of the Creator, a god in his own right, while Satan is merely a fallen angel.   The essence of Satan in Judeo-Christian theology is that he was an angel who attempted mutiny against God but was beaten rather handily by God's loyal angels.   Finding the he could not match God in direct conflict he now opposes God by attempting to turn His own creations against Him by manipulating the one thing that God will never deprive them of, their free will.  The only way Satan can fight God is by getting humanity to freely choose him over God.

 

So could the Satan that we, or at least our fictional counterparts, believe in in this age be one and the same the the DO who is causing so much trouble in the third age?  Well despite the apparent differences they do have one very important thing in common, each is in a position where he cannot fight his adversary directly so he most act through the adversary's creations by getting them to freely follow him.   Be it due to being greatly outmatch in raw power or being stuck in some sort of prison Shai'tan and Satan share a common problem.   So how could the fallen angel and the dark god be one and the same?  Couldn't it be as simple as that the Judeo-Christian theologens got it wrong, and greatly underestimated what Satan actually was?  I'm not saying that that's true in the real world, but in RJ's fictional world it could be.

[Cockta]

Exactly, and the Pattern is set up in a way that there remains a balance between Light and Dark. If Dark is winning, it'll spawn one of the Heroes to set things straight. If Light is winning, a certain string of events lead to couple of key figures turning to the Shadow. It's how it works.

It's probably a bit more complex than that.

 

In a way, you could see it as a boat. Tip it far to one side, and it'll rock far to the other side before (eventually) evening itself out again in the middle. The DO knows this, and it's why he wants to destroy the pattern before his forces are hit with the Pattern's recoil in restoring the balance again, should he manage to break free.

But Shai'tan would be less like one of the sailors on the boat and more like the creature rising from the depths to drag everyone to their doom. Seems like trusting that enough people will side against the monster is perhaps not the wisest decision ever made.

 

Given that the reason the Wheel was originally made to contain something that existed outside it, yes.

Was it indeed? Quotes.

The Creator created the Wheel of Time, which is time itself. The Creator imprisoned the Dark One outside of the Pattern at the moment of creation.

Not what I asked for. Roxinos has the right of it. All we know of the extent of Shai'tan's imprisonment is that He is unable to touch the Wheel. Complete freedom apart from that. So when the Wheel was created, it was put beyond His reach. Which is not to say that the Wheel itself was created for the express purpose of imprisoning anything, simply that it was created and the Creator didn't want it destroyed again right after. Like putting something on a high shelf so a child can't break it. The child is hardly imprisoned if the only limit on its freedom is an inability to reach the high shelf. The "prison" was made to keep Him away from the Pattern. The Pattern wasn't made to keep Him away from anything.

 

I may be a young mortal' date=' but you are nothing better than me. I don't know how old you are, but I presume that you are older than me, so you would just be an older mortal, nothing more, nothing less.[/quote']Debatable. I would say I am infinitely better than you. And I am far more than just an older mortal, even moreso if there was any truth in my great-great-grandfathers claims as to his paternity (there is a clue in the name).

As for the discussion, what I meant with the prison being a big tourist attraction, was that the place would be Shayol Ghul, because until now, everyone who has spoken with the DO, had to come to SG to speak to him. You can't speak with the DO in Cairhien, or Altara, you have to be inside SG to hear his voice. That is why all the forsaken come to SG to speak with the DO, because they can't speak with him wherever they are.

If you meant Shayol Ghul, maybe you should have said SG? Anyway, why should a world without a huge amount of tourism, a population that tends to stick near home or go where their work takes them, go to visit a volcano in the middle of nowhere after passing through who knows how many miles of empty land, uninhabited by anyone, to find a garrison stationed in the middle of nowhere to guard said volcano against no-one in particular for no good reason, except to stop some nasty people coming along to knock down a sign that nobody is going to come and see anyway? It beggars belief. And they are supposed to keep people from forgetting ever? How? People see the pyramids and they know the pyramids existed. Show them SG and they know a volcano exists there. Fine. *Points at Ben Nevis*. It exists. Now, believe there was a huge battle against an evil god there 10,000 years ago. Don't just take my word for it: *shows various bones* conclusive proof of the existence of an evil god! Therefore, everything I say must be true! I can even put up a sign to prove it! I trust you get the point.

I wonder why Rand never even have thought of tryin gto ask the Creator for help, to maybe get some knowlegde, so he may have some better chances. You know, a good old fashioned prayer

Why would you pray to a god you thought wouldn't lift a finger to help you?

 

BTW, Great Lord of the Dark, I seem to recall you declaring that you will not be participating here anymore?

Seems like we're not that lucky.

 

In our own age many of us do believe in the existence of the DO which we call Satan and which in Judeo-Christian theology shares many of the same traits of Sha'tan.

You believe in the existence of Satan, a fallen angel, but only one God. The Judeo-Christian tradition is, in this, very different from the dualistic theology of the books. The "DO" you believe in is thus very different from the one we are presented with in the books. And I believe the name Shai'tan is actually from Islamic mythology.

 

Well, we know for sure that this isn't the first Age, because before this age, was AOL.

Obviously you have never encountered RAW's AoL-is-part-of-the-Third-Age theory. Furthermore, the "Age of Legends" could have been the Seventh Age of the previous turning, with this "Third" as the first of the new. Of course, while there may be seven Ages to any given turning, who's to say that there is a First or Seventh Age beyond what men arbitrarily choose to call the First Age, etc.

 

Then the seventh age would be the special one.

Why?

we don't know anything

Speak for yourself.

 

Thats less than 1000 years for Shadowspawn in Seanchan to have faded to myth.

Unless they were destroyed by the Armies of the Night, before Luthair came. Then it would be longer.

 

i]

 

(Don't ban me or something like, Majsju, or Luckers, it's just that I have had enough of Mr A(ss)res and his infinite cockyness which obviously doesn't even seem to be receeding.)

 

First of all Mr Ares, calm down, once more. Second, you are not right on every point. Third, you are not quote: infinitely better than me. unquote. Dream on, if you wish. I could call my self president of Earth, or the universe, and actually think that I am, but that would not make me a president of anything. Same with you. All humans are born as equals, and should be treated as equals, or are you perhaps not human. remember, I am talking about RL, or real life. Even what you say on a forum is a part of real life, because it is something that affect someone, or something.

 

Now, to your arguments.

 

Tell me, how, and why does people believe that big giant animals, called the dinosaurs walked the Earth , until they were all eradicated 65 million years ago. Scientists have bones, and they say that these bones are from animals called dinosaurs who walked the Earth 65 million years ago. Why do people believe these scientists when for all we know, they are lying bigtime so that they can have a job, and a salary.

 

Also, even though Rand presumably heard the Creator say he would not participate in this struggle, Rand could pray to the Creator. If it really was the Creator who spoke to Rand, then Rand know the Creator really exist, and therefore could pray, or ask, call it whatever you wish, the Creator for advice/ knowledge, because if the Creator see everything, the Creator could help Rand by telling him for example approximately how many Trollocs there are.

 

On this point I agree with you, the word Shai'tan does come from Islamic mythology.

 

Well, we don't know. Apparently, RJ has written about the third Age, and I think we are supposed to accept that, and not think that this is the fifth Age, or the seventh, but the third. I think men call this the third Age, because it is the third Age.

 

I hope this cleared out a lot, not just for you Mr Ares, but for everyone. I still think you are a cocky bastard who need a good slap in the face, maybe by Nynaeve.

 

Once again I tell you this. You are not, I repeat, not better than anyone else here on this forum, and in this world, the real world.

[Thorum]

First of all: if you think of posting a personally critical post, wait an hour before actually doing it.

 

Tell me, how, and why does people believe that big giant animals, called the dinosaurs walked the Earth , until they were all eradicated 65 million years ago. Scientists have bones, and they say that these bones are from animals called dinosaurs who walked the Earth 65 million years ago. Why do people believe these scientists when for all we know, they are lying bigtime so that they can have a job, and a salary.

 

Because it's the most likely solution. There's a saying in science: "Everything is true unless it is disproven". This means, if you've got a theory that works with ALL available evidence, it's (at least temporarily) an acceptable theory. Afterwards, it's up to the scientist himself to say which he believes. The best example for this is the difference between Creationists (who take the bible as most-important evidence - able to eliminate minor discrepancies with reality) and Neodarwinists (who don't).

 

In this specific case, radioactive isotopes give the solution: we can calculate over the course of a day, a week, a year how much of a radioactive isotope is destroyed (the time to reduce it by half). We know that this rhythm has been EXACTLY the same since the earliest trees we have found (assuming tree rings have been yearly since that day). If we extrapolate this, we can get these ages.

[Sabio]

Ok I am lost when did Rand supposedly speak to the creator?

[Thorum]

Anyways' date=' this might sound a little stupid, but I wish that Rand, after he presumably seales the bore, makes a big sign that will endure the climate. A sign that says that this is the location of the DO prison, so that no one forgets about it, ever. maybe put some troops there to protect it from mad BA that want to open it again.[/quote']

So he puts a big sign up...where? The Bore is everywhere. Is it an omnipresent sign? And your sign will not last forever. It will break, or be forgotten. They will forget, eventually. The Third Age will come again...

 

and

 

And in case the prison isn't a major tourist attraction

How could it be? The prison exists outside the Pattern. The Bore is everywhere. When it is sealed' date=' it will be nowhere. How are tourists supposed to visit it?[/quote']

 

The weakest spot of the Bore is at Shayol Ghul. I've put the link to that story a bit higher here. The Bore is everywhere, but there's only one place where it can be pierced.

 

There were other Ages before that' date=' with other conflicts (Merc and Mosc duelling with spears of fire), Shai'tan isn't needed for them, is He?[/quote']No, but we onlt know that there was no knowledge of the DO for most of AOL we know nothing of the knowledge in other ages. Except of course that Merc and Mosc are believed to be referring to America and Moscow in our own age and in our own age many of us do believe in the existence of the DO which we call Satan and which in Judeo-Christian theology shares many of the same traits opf Sha'tan. Thus, it could be (and I would argue) that only in the AOL is the DO not known.

 

This is an important thing, when you take into account that these are only three Ages: in ours he's known as Satan, in the Third Age he's known as Shai'tan, and in the AOL he isn't know at all. The other four ages are unknown.

 

Ok I am lost when did Rand supposedly speak to the creator?

 

At the end of Eye of the World. Halfway chapter 51

"The Light blind you, Ba'alzamon! It has to end!"
IT IS NOT HERE.
It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.
I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.
"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"
(...)
NOT HERE.
Through the mist, as from the far end of the earth, came a cry. "The Light wills it!"

 

The capitals are generally accepted as being the Creator speaking

[Jehaine]

Exactly, and the Pattern is set up in a way that there remains a balance between Light and Dark. If Dark is winning, it'll spawn one of the Heroes to set things straight. If Light is winning, a certain string of events lead to couple of key figures turning to the Shadow. It's how it works.

It's probably a bit more complex than that.

 

Probably, but if i knew for certain how it worked it'd have made the Books less interesting. Fact remains however that one of the Pattern's objectives is to maintain balance, and thus keep either side from winning. So far, every major encounter between Light and Dark has been a phyrric victory at best, a draw where neither the DO was freed, nor killed/permanently sealed away.

 

In order to maintain the cycle of champions of Light and Dark deciding the fate of the world amongst them, neither side could ever truly win. Therefore, even though it would indeed be a lot more complex in the full picture (since it spans seven Ages, whereas we only know what, three years of an Age we assume to be the Third?), i'd still say my claim was fairly accurate.

 

In a way, you could see it as a boat. Tip it far to one side, and it'll rock far to the other side before (eventually) evening itself out again in the middle. The DO knows this, and it's why he wants to destroy the pattern before his forces are hit with the Pattern's recoil in restoring the balance again, should he manage to break free.

But Shai'tan would be less like one of the sailors on the boat and more like the creature rising from the depths to drag everyone to their doom. Seems like trusting that enough people will side against the monster is perhaps not the wisest decision ever made.

 

Never said he was a sailor. But following along with your sea monster analogy, it would try to trick/influence the crew into crashing the ship onto a reef or mudflat, and have it sink rather than tip one way or the other. Now imagine the influenced sailors are Darkfriends/Forsaken/whatever, and the others are the Chosen of the Light (Rand, Mat etc.), arguing with Team Dark about where to lead the ship to get away from the monster, and you can see where i'm heading with that example.

 

Given that the reason the Wheel was originally made to contain something that existed outside it, yes.

Was it indeed? Quotes.

The Creator created the Wheel of Time, which is time itself. The Creator imprisoned the Dark One outside of the Pattern at the moment of creation.

Not what I asked for. Roxinos has the right of it. All we know of the extent of Shai'tan's imprisonment is that He is unable to touch the Wheel. Complete freedom apart from that. So when the Wheel was created, it was put beyond His reach. Which is not to say that the Wheel itself was created for the express purpose of imprisoning anything, simply that it was created and the Creator didn't want it destroyed again right after. Like putting something on a high shelf so a child can't break it. The child is hardly imprisoned if the only limit on its freedom is an inability to reach the high shelf. The "prison" was made to keep Him away from the Pattern. The Pattern wasn't made to keep Him away from anything.

 

Only the words used ('imprison', 'sealed' and such) imply more that said child has been locked in his room, with only a keyhole called SG to peek out of, rather than not being able to reach the top shelf. And unless there is something acting as a door, room and house in that example, it'd be like standing in an open field, dragging a line and telling the DO he isn't allowed to cross it: Possible, but useless for all practical purposes.

[Cockta]

Then why did Mr Ares say all those things about the bones. He seems like he wants to agitate me, and to provoke me into making these posts.

 

If I can believe a scientist that I have never seen, but that tells me to believe that animals several times larger than elephants walked the Earth, then why can't Randlanders, and other people in that weorld believe in Trollocs. They actually have hard, and not to mention fresh evidence that Trollocs exist., but people in Altara, for example, believe that Trollocs are only myth, and that they are in stories for children.

 

But then comes a big question: Does either side want to win?

[Jehaine]

(sorry for ignoring the above post, but continuing on my post just now)

 

Given that i felt my point isn't really understood, i slapped together something in Photoshop, showing how i see the Seal had to have been placed for it to have any effect:

 

 

The Dark One is sealed at the very center of the Wheel, requiring him to break through the Wheel itself (Bore!) in order to be freed. He'd also exist in a place outside the Pattern there, because the actual movement of time relative to his position would be negatable. Sealed as close as they were, the Forsaken aged slower as well, further supporting my theory as Aginor and Balthamel looked nowhere as young as the others that were sealed closer to the DO.

 

Other than that, the same is true for what we know: The Wheel turns, Ages come and go, and TAR keeps the Heroes within easy access in case they are needed in the Wheel. Time passes differently there after all (closer to the center = less 'turning speed' of the wheel).

 

Also, this model supports what i believe that there needed to be something to actually seal the DO with. Added to the fact that these two events (sealing and the creation of the Wheel) conveniently happened around the same time, deducting that he is sealed into the Wheel itself is no more than logical, especially considering the seals on the patch LTT made physically existed within the Wheel itself.

 

The Creator, by the way, would exist outside of the Wheel, within the Pattern.