The One Power failing.

[Kaznen]

I think the wards may have failed because Saidar had to due a "hard reboot."

 

Remember that Jordan was a physicist(?) and a lot of the powers done with the OP is through science (Traveling is a wormhole using the two theories of how wormholes are created).

 

Also, any physicist will tell you that all energy recycles back into itself, and the OP is energy.

 

So, while Rand and Nyn were doing the cleansing they were pulling massive amounts of Saidar, and remember it was Rand doing the channeling Nyn was just the conduit, that it put the Saidar levels in the red (RJ said there was a finite amount of OP) the Saidin was just being seeved but the Saidar was used to do something.

 

Now when these levels of Saidar went into the red, I'm sure the OP has a fail safe for this, it pulled all the excess Saidar, every ward of saidar, back into the pool so it could maintain essential function like turning the wheel of time.

 

Now image a this is all regulated by a computer, and the wards are programs running on the 'puter's RAM, but not save into secondary memory.  When the levels were reaching critical mass the computer did a hard reboot, sometimes it has to be done, and when the "computer" was back online, everything that was previosly in the RAM was deleted.

 

Then the AS just need to "reload" there wards.

[aslansrevenge]

I think the wards may have failed because Saidar had to due a "hard reboot."

 

Remember that Jordan was a physicist(?) and a lot of the powers done with the OP is through science (Traveling is a wormhole using the two theories of how wormholes are created).

 

Also, any physicist will tell you that all energy recycles back into itself, and the OP is energy.

 

So, while Rand and Nyn were doing the cleansing they were pulling massive amounts of Saidar, and remember it was Rand doing the channeling Nyn was just the conduit, that it put the Saidar levels in the red (RJ said there was a finite amount of OP) the Saidin was just being seeved but the Saidar was used to do something.

 

Now when these levels of Saidar went into the red, I'm sure the OP has a fail safe for this, it pulled all the excess Saidar, every ward of saidar, back into the pool so it could maintain essential function like turning the wheel of time.

 

Now image a this is all regulated by a computer, and the wards are programs running on the 'puter's RAM, but not save into secondary memory.  When the levels were reaching critical mass the computer did a hard reboot, sometimes it has to be done, and when the "computer" was back online, everything that was previosly in the RAM was deleted.

 

Then the AS just need to "reload" there wards.

 

wow very cool answer

[RAND AL THOR]

(RJ said there was a finite amount of OP)

 

Where was that info obtained? All the evidence points to infinite amounts of the power. It is stated repeatedly in the books.

 

As for the reboot....a reboot of the Power would likely shatter the Wheel I think since it is the Power that drives reality. And such a drastic event would have affected more than petty wards in the Tower. Much would have been affected.

 

The Power is infinite.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Can't supply the quote right now, but he did say finite.

 

It's just infinitely reusable.

[bRANDan]

I think the DO can bypass Saidar or Saidin without too much difficulty when they are used seperately. To make the wards functionable I think you'd have to remake them with both Saidin and Saidar. After all the True Power is the DO's answer to the OP, OP as in both Saidin and Saidar. As for why we have not heard anything about Saidin's "failing", there haven't been any permanent Keepings or Wards made, that we know of. And any that failed at the Black Tower would probably be kept secrets by Taim and the Asha'man DFs.

 

I think that this will be the point that eventually brings the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man completely together. Not simply working together to make bigger circles, but working together to prevent the DO from bypassing them. Bricks and mortar. A wall of bricks is certainly a barrier, but easily bypassed by the small and easily dismantled by the large. Bricks and mortar is another matter entirely.

[Snowy Dawn]

Cybertrolloc: You said there was no POV from a saidar user, and I have you two. What is your problem with my cites?

[RAND AL THOR]

This may be relevant to the topic,

 

In PoD, the damanae get sick in Ebou Dar. Did we ever get an explanation why? It seems to be power-related.

[Elgee]

I've always thought that the sickness felt by the damane and the "strangeness" felt by male channelers was caused by either the use of the Bowl of Winds (it drew on Saidin AND Saidar), or because or Elaine letting losing control of unraveling her gateway (though why that would affect Saidin, I'm not sure).

 

Either way, the sickness and strangeness started in that area, right after both those events, as far as I can recall.

[Guest Toad]

Couldn't Rand's use of Callandar effect the source as well.  Cadsuane said there was a defect.

[RAND AL THOR]

Couldn't Rand's use of Callandar effect the source as well.  Cadsuane said there was a defect.

 

True. But saidin was bad in Ebou Dar even before Rand went there. An Asha'man reported to Rand and said: saidin was worst there.

So something else was likely wrong.

The taint was not buffered by Callandor and that is why Rand went all nuts at the end of PoD.

 

The Bowl. It did draw on both but the weaves spread all over Randland and several channelers remarked on it. Perrin had Asha'man with him who noted the weather weaves. Even if the Bowl was actually used in Ebour Dar, I would expect any bad effects to affect people over a large area.

 

Furthermore, why would the Bowl have any negative effects? It was only weaving the weaver. A direct effect on saidar by a ter'angreal is unlikely.

 

I do not rule out the possibility but I hope for a stronger answer. ;)

[bRANDan]

Right after the girls used the bowl, they noticed that Saidar still seemed to be around them or something like that, and they also noted that Saidar played and crackled along the Bowl after they had finished channelling. Then Elayne made her Travelling Gate and it didn't want to form then suddenly snapped into place. I think this shows that the event that caused the weirdness in the Powers was the Bowl, nothing else. We've seen what happens when differing weaves of power hit each other, Rand and the Asha'man in Illian setting off Sammael's warning wards. Uncontrolled reactions of the Power occur. The Bowl most likely did not create a one time only weave, that was formed, did it's business, then dispersed. It was more likely a residual weave, the Windfinders even said that 'the rudder had been turned, but a ship this large takes awhile to turn', not the actual wording, but as close as I can remember. The residual weave of the Bowl combining with any other weave would have had uncontrollable reactions.

[Cybertrolloc]

Cybertrolloc: You said there was no POV from a saidar user, and I have you two. What is your problem with my cites?

And I forgot to thank you for them.

 

I reread Egwene's bit, I'll have to get to the KoD stuff later. Egwene certainly doesn't consider all the possibilities in the CoT chapter, and I suspect Romanda would be similar. I think it's still Keepings/Wards aren't working as well as they used to, but what we're not seeing is the OP being weird. I'll describe better later.

[Snowy Dawn]

Cybertrolloc: And I forgot to thank you for them.

 

You're welcome. I will have to look back at the chapter in <i>Crossroads of Twilight</i>. When you brought the issue up the only bits I could recall were those in <i>Knife of Dreams</i>, since I had recently reread that section, and the description was vivid.

[RAND AL THOR]

Right after the girls used the bowl, they noticed that Saidar still seemed to be around them or something like that

 

That was the channeling of the damanae nearby. The Return had just started then.

[Mr Ares]

This may be relevant to the topic,

 

In PoD, the damanae get sick in Ebou Dar. Did we ever get an explanation why? It seems to be power-related.

Bowl of Winds. Confirmed by RJ:

Jordan said so. At a post-TPOD signing in northern Virginia [21 November, 1998], Jordan confirmed outright in plain language that the Bowl, not the unweaving, was the cause of the One Power weirdness, and that it was a case of overstressing a ter'angreal. From John Novak's report:

He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which radiated from that place.

[Luckers]

@Luckers: You make good points, but I've thought about these too, and still the fact remains that Aes Sedai think that saidar itself is failing, and apparently you could make a sister joke about the Black Ajah before you could get her to talk of it. I'd think that the Aes Sedai should know, since they actually channel it. But anyway, I can as easily accept them being frightened of abnormal occurences such as rats being able to bypass wardings because of the Dark One's influence, and jumping to conclusions. Perhaps.

 

Their comments are specific to the realities of the Dark One's influence, so any idea of them having specific knowledge to support the idea is out--their comments, their fears, are based on the listed failures of saidin, they don't know more about it than we--and we in this know more than they  becuase we have other POV's.

[Cybertrolloc]

I reread Romanda's chapter in KoD again.

 

It's certainly arguable that since RJ used similar wording from 4 (Eg, Romanada, Alviarian and someone else) characters it could be going somewhere. I doubt it, but I won't go all Mr Ares on you for saying it.

[Jarraad]

Personally, the base point of this argument, whether or not it is the dark one causing certain weaves to fail, is defined by one simple detail.  Remember the lily that was left for elayne after her and rand's "romp in the sheets?" it is, by all accounts still there, good as new.  Therefore, the weaves that are directly impeding the dark one, IE anti-rat wards, and food protection keepings, are the only things being damaged, this is simple logic, furthermore, male tainted saidin weaves never failed, they were just corrupted. 

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

My belief is the same as Luckers.

 

First, let me say that I won't believe the comment about the OP being finite until I see the quote itself.

 

Secondly, I find it absurd for someone to suggest that Rand, using Nynaeve and the female Choedan Kal, wielded more power during one day than was wielded during the entire War of Power. (There's been no mention of any sort of recycling of the OP during the Age of Legends).

 

 

Thirdly, if saidar is being pulled back to be recycled, why is the Wheel only recycling saidar where it was being put to a use where it harmed Shai'tan's cause? That's kind of counterintuitive, and the Wheel, while perhaps not sentient, has certainly not lasted this long through those kind of operations.

 

Of course, I don't know why I am arguing this. Aes Sedai believe that saidar is failing. And we all know that Aes Sedai are always right.

[Shaidar_Rannow]

If I recall correctly, mind I often do not, most of the failings are occuring with the wards and keepings of the WT. I just think it is Messanna sp? corrupting them, seeds of worry you see. Let the Lord of Chaos rule and Messana intends to do just that I am sure. Now time has gone by but I doubt there are AS checking every ward. They didnt care so long as they worked. It would take time for weaves to dissapate, and time for things, rats for example, to enter the tower they saw as off limits before. my 1 cent on the issue.

 

Though I wish I was right, I may not be so I prepared a back up. The DO is almost free!!!! We're all gonna die!!!!!!!! ;D