The Song

[Whitefire]

I'd agree with cloglord.

 

After all, he didn't recognize his wife lying dead in front of him, didn't notice the earth was shaking, didn't recognize his mortal enemy--I'd say his judgements are not exactly a solid basis for making assuptions. At best, I'd risk a wild guess that Aiel were frequent guests at his house, even ones he didn't know. Maybe as messengers from other Aes Sedai?

[bRANDan]

I agree with Whitefire and cloglord, about LTT's mental state, for the most part. The one exception I would have to make is this, LTT asked "Have you the Voice?", why? If only Aiel had the Voice, why ask. Whatever Ishammael looked like to LTT, he either appeared Aiel or not. If he looked Aiel why ask if you know he does have the Voice. If he didn't look Aiel why ask if you know he doesn't. If LTT could not tell whether he was Aiel or not, why ask if he had the Voice? Why not ask if he was Aiel? If all Aiel had the Voice, wouldn't asking an Aiel if they had the Voice be more of an insult than asking if they were an Aiel? Just the fact that the question was posed, indicates to me that you do not have to be Aiel to have the Voice.

 

[Luckers]

And why would he refer to the Singing as a clear social event if it were something that only Aiel took place in? He clearly references Ilyena as a figure directing the event.

 

And there's the fact that the Dai'shain are servants, the questions modality is to a peer, and no matter how politely the Aes Sedai regard the Dai'shain it wouldn't take on that modality.

 

We know, earth singing is a talent for earthquakes and cloud dancing is a talent for weather control. There should be many capital letters in my last sentence too

 

How do we know that?

 

We don't know that, really... It's very likely the truth, especially when we consider what Thom said about history (and I think RJ's view would be more or less the same), but there's also a chance that this was some general name for Aiel "Talent" of singing. It is possible that the people who never intentionally destroyed any "threads" in the Pattern were rewarded with some mystical strength.

 

Well, Coumin refers to it as seed singing, but it may well be that it got called the Song at times... but the Song the Tinker's speak of is not the Songs the Aiel sung. You can see with the Song of the Tinker's begins...

 

"My greatfather told me stories he heard as a boy, stories of a time of safety and peace when people came to hear us sing. We mean to find a place were we can be safe, and sing again."

 

Since no such place existed, it developed into a myth, a Song that would bring back all they had lost--the peace and safety and culture--the Age of Legends come again.

[Whitefire]

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We know, earth singing is a talent for earthquakes and cloud dancing is a talent for weather control. There should be many capital letters in my last sentence too

 

How do we know that?

 

Well, since you ask, it's not very important here I think, but you'll find it in glossaries under "Talents". Um... wait... I have it in book 7, no idea whether its elsewhere too.

 

As to what Song means, I agree that myth-explanation is most logical. To me as well. I just like the other idea and its not impossible, isn't it?

 

Where did you get that:

 

when people came to hear us sing

 

That's a good quote, it suggests that Singing was a social event even for those without the Voice.

[cloglord]

And why would he refer to the Singing as a clear social event if it were something that only Aiel took place in? He clearly references Ilyena as a figure directing the event.

 

The answer comes from the books,

 

TEotW, Prolouge,

Lews Therin turned, seeming unsuprised.  "Ah, a guest.  Have you the Voice, stranger?  It will soon be time for the Singing, and here all are welcome to take part.  Ilyena, my love, we have a guest.  Ilyena, where are you?

 

1st, Ilyena is not referenced as a directing figure.  Not in this passage or later.  She is welcoming, and she is inquisitive, but in no way is it implied that she is the director of the Singing.

 

2nd, While it will soon be time for the Singing, this statement is not indicative of the the frequency of the event. It doesn't neccesarily mean the the Singing was a daily, weekly, or even monthly event.  In fact we know from the flashback scenes in TSR that Aiel were performing the seed singing concurrently to the strike at SG.  It could be as simple as saying that it was springtime, and everyone was welcome to attend the concert the the Aiel were about to hold out in the fields.

 

3rd, LTT says that "here all are welcome to take part."  Intimating that in others places all were not welcome to take part.  I interpret this statement to mean that in some places only those with the voice were welcome, and that those people were likely non-aiel.

 

And there's the fact that the Dai'shain are servants, the questions modality is to a peer, and no matter how politely the Aes Sedai regard the Dai'shain it wouldn't take on that modality.

 

Except that citizen Jom had been a real @$$hole until he realized that Charn was Aiel, and then he treated him with the deepest respect suggesting that the Aiel were given a position of greater respect in AoL society than that of mere servants. 

 

Well, Coumin refers to it as seed singing, but it may well be that it got called the Song at times... but the Song the Tinker's speak of is not the Songs the Aiel sung. You can see with the Song of the Tinker's begins...

 

"My greatfather told me stories he heard as a boy, stories of a time of safety and peace when people came to hear us sing. We mean to find a place were we can be safe, and sing again."

 

Since no such place existed, it developed into a myth, a Song that would bring back all they had lost--the peace and safety and culture--the Age of Legends come again.

 

LTT refers to the Voice and the Singing, both words being emphasized by means of their capitalization.

 

The greatfather in question would place that generation in the same generation as Coumin who had participated in the singing, but who has never know life outside of the war of power, the stories that coumin would have heard would have come from Charn who was an Aiel during the AoL and who had known a "time of safety and peace."  These stories aren't mythologized, they are the words of men who had the story secondhand.  While the details may have been fuzzy, the thrust was the same, Aiel Singing was a powerful and wonderous thing, and some at least believed that it could provide them some comfort if they could only find a place to practice their belief. 

 

Incidently, it is my belief that the Song magnified the use of the OP, and because the Aiel were not traveling with wielders of the OP, they forgot the songs after only one generation.  Alternately it could have been the lack of Ogier, but certainly there has to be a reason why the Aiel seem to have forgotten the songs they had sung after only being removed from it one generation.

 

If he looked Aiel why ask if you know he does have the Voice. If he didn't look Aiel why ask if you know he doesn't. If LTT could not tell whether he was Aiel or not, why ask if he had the Voice? Why not ask if he was Aiel? If all Aiel had the Voice, wouldn't asking an Aiel if they had the Voice be more of an insult than asking if they were an Aiel? Just the fact that the question was posed, indicates to me that you do not have to be Aiel to have the Voice.

 

Of it could be that not all Aiel have the Voice.  We know that pre-pubescent aiel boys are not old enough to exhibit the talent, and from the seedsinging, it does not appear that women possess the voice either.  This could also explain why the song died out after only one generation during the breaking, if the Voice is only as genetically common in the Aiel as treesinging is in the ogier, then it could explain why the songs were not taught from father to son. 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yes, Luckers, I did preface my first post in this one to the definition of Talents in the Glossaries found in all books I have except "New Spring".

 

cloglord - I'm sorry, but what you're spouting is eugenics.  Eugenics is nonsense.  The Aiel are just one of the many tribes, or groupings of human beings.  They aren't a separate race like the Ogier.  All human capability is spread throughout the whole of mankind.  The Voice may tend to appear more often among the Aiel than it does among any other ethnic ( for want of a better term ) grouping because they tend to be insular and probably somewhat inbred which would reinforce the gene.  The gene which produces the Voice would, however, be present among all the groupings of man.

 

Just as the gene which produces channelers is present among all the groupings of man.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Jordan may have already given us a glimpse of the Power of Song.

 

At the end of "The Eye of the World", he tells us as they are riding back to Tarwin's Gap, that the Blight has receded.  A couple of significant things have happened so it's impossible to say which was the proximate cause for that.

 

1.  Three of the DO's lieutenants have been defeated.  Two by Rand, one by Someshta.

2.  Loial sang the most powerful Strengthening Song he knew, so as to preserve Someshta's memorial.

 

I lean toward a Song that strengthens and preserves healthy life and growth being the cause.

[cloglord]

cloglord - I'm sorry, but what you're spouting is eugenics.  Eugenics is nonsense.  The Aiel are just one of the many tribes, or groupings of human beings.  They aren't a separate race like the Ogier.  All human capability is spread throughout the whole of mankind.  The Voice may tend to appear more often among the Aiel than it does among any other ethnic ( for want of a better term ) grouping because they tend to be insular and probably somewhat inbred which would reinforce the gene.  The gene which produces the Voice would, however, be present among all the groupings of man.

 

 

There is something to be said for the variance of human capability however.  I, as a white man, cannot process fats nearly as efficiently as a native Alaskan, nor am I as resistant to the effects of too much UV radiation as an African.  Perhaps the Aiel "ethnic group" is just a much more effective genetic carrier of the Voice gene, and those genteic characteristics only manifest themselves in a useful manner among that group.

 

 

It is certainly possible as well, that there are genes that are tied to other genes, and it could be that only blue eyed people have the potential to have the voice.  Or it could be that this is a work of fiction, and RJ can have any rules he wants.  My sole point, is that the only evidence that the voice could be found outside of the aiel to this point, was the missed perceptions of a delusional madman.  The eugenics argument is certainly a stronger point than Lucker's.

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

The Voice is obviously a Talent, both because Jordan always referred to it as "the" Voice and because he always capitalized it.

 

Going by: Talents: Abilities in the use of the One Power in specific areas., I can only conclude that anyone who could channel could potentially have the Voice.  I think the definition could also be read such that it might be that someone who had the Voice, while they might be exceptionally effective in that one area, might not be able to do much more with the One Power.

[knutz]

The song(s) (Shortened to "song" by the ages) are not given their due. The Aiel were dedicated to the way of the leaf when they served the Aes Sedai, but if they weren't?

 

Loial used his tree-singing talent to produce a weapon.

 

What the Voice is - is a talent that allows you to manipulate - maybe control - the force of nature. The potential for destruction is far greater than the one power. Imagine having the very trees fighting for you? The grass beneath your enemy's feet wrapping around their ankles. The weeds choking them.

 

The Aiel, I think, were dedicated to peace simply because without some form of social control their talent would be too much for the world to handle.

 

Same reason the Seanchan collar channellers. They all want to make you their property - so do it to them first.

 

Either way, the songs won't return until Raen walks through the glass collumns.

[Luckers]

Well, since you ask, it's not very important here I think, but you'll find it in glossaries under "Talents". Um... wait... I have it in book 7, no idea whether its elsewhere too.

 

Thanks mate, i couldn't remember.

 

Where did you get that:

 

 

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when people came to hear us sing

 

That's a good quote, it suggests that Singing was a social event even for those without the Voice.

 

Sulwin said it in Rand's Aiel Time Machine experience in Rhuidean. He was the one that first led the Lost Ones who later became the Tuatha'an. And your possibly correct, though my point was more about the fact that it was this desire to regain the culture and peace that was the basis of the Song.

 

1st, Ilyena is not referenced as a directing figure.  Not in this passage or later.  She is welcoming, and she is inquisitive, but in no way is it implied that she is the director of the Singing.

 

Fair enough, I'll conceed that. I don't have the first book on me and i thought i remembered LTT making a comment about Ilyena being fierce about the Singing. Apparently i was wrong.

 

2nd, While it will soon be time for the Singing, this statement is not indicative of the the frequency of the event. It doesn't neccesarily mean the the Singing was a daily, weekly, or even monthly event.  In fact we know from the flashback scenes in TSR that Aiel were performing the seed singing concurrently to the strike at SG.  It could be as simple as saying that it was springtime, and everyone was welcome to attend the concert the the Aiel were about to hold out in the fields.

 

No, it makes no statement about the frequency of the event, but it does make it clear that it is a standard, repeated event. Beyond that you are incorrect. Lews Therin asked if Ishamael had the voice, showing it was not the seed singing of the Aiel that he was refering to.

 

3rd, LTT says that "here all are welcome to take part."  Intimating that in others places all were not welcome to take part.  I interpret this statement to mean that in some places only those with the voice were welcome, and that those people were likely non-aiel.

 

Or else, as is more reasonable in such an enlightened culture in a state of war, its indicating that they welcome anyone who has the Voice... strangers included. Concidering Lews Therin asks if Ishamael has the Voice before speaking that line i don't know what you were getting at with all that about only those with the voice being welcome, much less your implication that that would mean only the Aiel.

 

Except that citizen Jom had been a real @$$hole until he realized that Charn was Aiel, and then he treated him with the deepest respect suggesting that the Aiel were given a position of greater respect in AoL society than that of mere servants. 

 

Yes, an position based respect. The peer issue stands.

 

The greatfather in question would place that generation in the same generation as Coumin who had participated in the singing, but who has never know life outside of the war of power, the stories that coumin would have heard would have come from Charn who was an Aiel during the AoL and who had known a "time of safety and peace."  These stories aren't mythologized, they are the words of men who had the story secondhand.  While the details may have been fuzzy, the thrust was the same, Aiel Singing was a powerful and wonderous thing, and some at least believed that it could provide them some comfort if they could only find a place to practice their belief.

 

Your point being...?

 

Aiel singing was wonderous. It won't bring back the Age of Legends, but it was pretty cool.

 

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If he looked Aiel why ask if you know he does have the Voice. If he didn't look Aiel why ask if you know he doesn't. If LTT could not tell whether he was Aiel or not, why ask if he had the Voice? Why not ask if he was Aiel? If all Aiel had the Voice, wouldn't asking an Aiel if they had the Voice be more of an insult than asking if they were an Aiel? Just the fact that the question was posed, indicates to me that you do not have to be Aiel to have the Voice.

 

Of it could be that not all Aiel have the Voice.  We know that pre-pubescent aiel boys are not old enough to exhibit the talent, and from the seedsinging, it does not appear that women possess the voice either.  This could also explain why the song died out after only one generation during the breaking, if the Voice is only as genetically common in the Aiel as treesinging is in the ogier, then it could explain why the songs were not taught from father to son. 

 

Except he did not look Aiel.

 

It is certainly possible as well, that there are genes that are tied to other genes, and it could be that only blue eyed people have the potential to have the voice.  Or it could be that this is a work of fiction, and RJ can have any rules he wants.  My sole point, is that the only evidence that the voice could be found outside of the aiel to this point, was the missed perceptions of a delusional madman.  The eugenics argument is certainly a stronger point than Lucker's.

 

To your mind perhaps, but really what do you have to base the eugenics argument? You have no data about the nature of Aiel genetics, or the influence of such on the Voice. You have nothing that even remotely implies that Aiel genes are nessasary to have the Voice.

 

I may only have the words of a madmen, but at least i have that... and isn't it sad that that gives me a stronger basis than you?

 

As a side note Lews Therin's madness was based in familiarity. He sought family, prescribed around himself normality even in the sight that it wasn't. None of that speaks to a distortion around his preception of Ishamael.

 

The Voice is obviously a Talent, both because Jordan always referred to it as "the" Voice and because he always capitalized it.

 

Going by: Talents: Abilities in the use of the One Power in specific areas., I can only conclude that anyone who could channel could potentially have the Voice.  I think the definition could also be read such that it might be that someone who had the Voice, while they might be exceptionally effective in that one area, might not be able to do much more with the One Power.

 

Keep in mind that that may well be a misperception. Dreaming, for instance, is a Talent--and described as such, yet not linked to the Power. And we've seen other such special abilities that would be described as Talents--Sniffing, Min's Viewings, Wolfbrotherhood.

 

 

[Nethran Thaimal]

Sources are not clear on whether or not the Da'shain Aiel could channel...

 

Use of the Voice does not require the ability to channel, just like Min's visions, or else I'm sure that sources would be more clear.

 

...though they do agree that the Aiel could often enhance channeling, as when adding their voices to the seed singing of the Ogier.

 

So yeah, whoever said that was right.  I doubt, however, that Aes Sedai used the Da'shain as angreals.  If they did that, they would have never needed to make the things.  There probably used to be a lot of them, considering there's quite a few of them that have been found already and there are still huge cashes of One Power items that haven't been properly sifted through, and it's been 3000 years since they were made.

 

 

I'd like to note that, if it was called Singing(it was), then there must have been a Song, logically speaking.  Perhaps not ever Song was the same, but if you are Singing, you definitely need a Song.

 

Perhaps Voice and the innate ability of the Da'shain Aiel are not the same.

 

And lastly, it doesn't seem as though the blood of the "modern" Aiel has been all that watered down.  They're still generally tall, red-headed, and light in eye color. I think that they probably still have the ability to enhance the use of the One Power. Being that, since the majority of the Da'Shain(if not all of them) had that ability, I'd say that the watering down of their blood wouldn't have a giant effect on it anyway. That's just me, but I can't see an error in it.

[Majsju]

Use of the Voice does not require the ability to channel, just like Min's visions, or else I'm sure that sources would be more clear.

 

Thing with BWB is that it is not 100% correct, since the intention was to write it like a 4th Age scholar with lacking knowledge would have written it.

 

Like here for example. We can conclude from Rands visit in Rhuidean that the Aiel could indeed have the ability to channel, otherwise the Aes Sedai would never have bothered to test Coumin and turn him down for lacking the spark.

 

[Whitefire]

Keep in mind that that may well be a misperception. Dreaming, for instance, is a Talent--and described as such, yet not linked to the Power. And we've seen other such special abilities that would be described as Talents--Sniffing, Min's Viewings, Wolfbrotherhood.

 

That's right, and moreover we know that the Ogier have special powers for growing and they do not channel. They even use these powers in steddings! I am also under the impression, that the AOL Aiel who started to channel were very few, but once it happened, they joined the Aes Sedai.

 

I know it's not that obvious, but I'd say that the voice was a Talent which did not require the Power. It could serve to enhance channeling, but I believe only when it came to growing things, living things. Creating chora trees? Holding back the Blight? Better food supply? Maybe reducing crime rate?

[cloglord]

It is certainly possible as well, that there are genes that are tied to other genes, and it could be that only blue eyed people have the potential to have the voice.  Or it could be that this is a work of fiction, and RJ can have any rules he wants.  My sole point, is that the only evidence that the voice could be found outside of the aiel to this point, was the missed perceptions of a delusional madman.  The eugenics argument is certainly a stronger point than Lucker's.

 

To your mind perhaps, but really what do you have to base the eugenics argument? You have no data about the nature of Aiel genetics, or the influence of such on the Voice. You have nothing that even remotely implies that Aiel genes are nessasary to have the Voice.

 

I may only have the words of a madmen, but at least i have that... and isn't it sad that that gives me a stronger basis than you?

 

You missed the point.  The fact that eugenics is a weak argument is a stronger argument than yours based on the missed perceptions of a madman as a counter to my argument.

 

No, it makes no statement about the frequency of the event, but it does make it clear that it is a standard, repeated event. Beyond that you are incorrect. Lews Therin asked if Ishamael had the voice, showing it was not the seed singing of the Aiel that he was refering to.

 

Yes, like Spring is a standard repeated event, or the end of a millenium is a standard repeated event.  Repetition does not equate with commonality.

 

LTT asked Ishy if he had the voice in the direct context of the Singing that was about to take place. Since we do not know anything about this instance of Singing, we do not know that the Singing referenced by LTT is the same or different than the seed-singing from the Coumin(IIRC) POV.

 

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The greatfather in question would place that generation in the same generation as Coumin who had participated in the singing, but who has never know life outside of the war of power, the stories that coumin would have heard would have come from Charn who was an Aiel during the AoL and who had known a "time of safety and peace."  These stories aren't mythologized, they are the words of men who had the story secondhand.  While the details may have been fuzzy, the thrust was the same, Aiel Singing was a powerful and wonderous thing, and some at least believed that it could provide them some comfort if they could only find a place to practice their belief.

 

Your point being...?

 

Aiel singing was wonderous. It won't bring back the Age of Legends, but it was pretty cool.

 

My point is that both men in the "Tinker split scene," would have a pretty good idea about the capabilities of the song, considering that they had heard the story from first hand participants in its singing.  It makes these early POV's about the powers of the song much more reliable, than the millenia later myth's of present day tinkers, and inspired these people to go and pursue this course of action.  Simply there was a Song and it had measurable power to effect the standard of living for its Singers.

 

 

As a side note Lews Therin's madness was based in familiarity. He sought family, prescribed around himself normality even in the sight that it wasn't. None of that speaks to a distortion around his preception of Ishamael.

 

First, I'd point out to you like I did to BobTDwarf, that you are not a psychologist, nor have you counseld LTT even if you were, so you are in no way qualified to make determinations about the nature of LTT's insanity.  Secondly, there is something that speaks to the nature of LTT's perception of Ishamel, the fact that prior to his "healing" he did not recognize Ishmael and referred to him as a "stranger", and after his healing he recognizes him and calls him by name.  Without getting into the specific delusions or types of schitzophrenia that might have caused this, (As I am also not a psychologist,) it is obvious from the text that LTT's insane perceptions of both living and dead people were signifigantly altered from reality.

[aevogt]

The example of a Singer we do have, Coumin at the age of 16, states speciifically that he was passed over because he didn't have the spark.  And that he was actually glad

 

The "Singing" was used in association with the Nym (a living being engineered with the One Power) and the Ogier to ensure healthier fields and crops but in and of itself, had nothing to do with the One Power.

 

There isn't any real evidence that what the Aiel did had any real effect other than as, perhaps, some kind of social gathering. 

 

Although, he wasn't allowed to participate until his voice had deepened sufficiently so maybe that is something.

[Snowy Dawn]

Gee, and here I was thinking that at some point Raen would encounter Rand and ask ``and do you know the Song?'', to which Rand would reply ``Which one? The Da'shain Aiel had many songs...'' and then offer to teach Raen one or more of the same, the which he would have from the memories of Lews Therin. Of course, the songs in question would be in the old tongue, so Mat or Birgitte would have to be handy to translate....

[Luckers]

You missed the point.  The fact that eugenics is a weak argument is a stronger argument than yours based on the missed perceptions of a madman as a counter to my argument.

 

Ok, firstly that sentence is barely readibly, so forgive me if i misunderstand what you are suggesting. Secondly, bud--the eugenics argument is nothing but guesswork--and guesswork that is completely and utterly unsubstantiated, or even inferred. The ramblings of a madman are at least stated.

 

Flail all you want, but its the books that your flailing against, sorry.

 

Yes, like Spring is a standard repeated event, or the end of a millenium is a standard repeated event.  Repetition does not equate with commonality.

 

LTT asked Ishy if he had the voice in the direct context of the Singing that was about to take place. Since we do not know anything about this instance of Singing, we do not know that the Singing referenced by LTT is the same or different than the seed-singing from the Coumin(IIRC) POV.

 

The modality of the statement stands against you. LTT, in a state of delusion, draws a web of normality about himself--that is a fact you can see it in his comments--and he speaks of this event, a grounding social experience that clearly stabalizes him. That speaks to its frequency.

 

First, I'd point out to you like I did to BobTDwarf, that you are not a psychologist, nor have you counseld LTT even if you were, so you are in no way qualified to make determinations about the nature of LTT's insanity.

 

Cute. So its 'you cant KNOW that, so im right'.

 

Btw champ, curious side note but I am a third year psych student, so if you DID want to have that conversation im more than willing--not that i see much point in the analysis of a literary character, but i do know all the apt jargon, so shall we play?

 

  Secondly, there is something that speaks to the nature of LTT's perception of Ishamel, the fact that prior to his "healing" he did not recognize Ishmael and referred to him as a "stranger", and after his healing he recognizes him and calls him by name.  Without getting into the specific delusions or types of schitzophrenia that might have caused this, (As I am also not a psychologist,) it is obvious from the text that LTT's insane perceptions of both living and dead people were signifigantly altered from reality.

 

Schitzophrenia wouldn't cause that. Only a complete psychotic break with dissasociative personality disorder would cause that. Though i am curious as to why you are allowed to draw conclusions from his ramblings, but we arn't.

 

The fact is that LTT is clearly dissasociative. He percieves and interacts with the world without processing it. Its also clear that he enables himself to do that by shrouding what he sees in the image of normalcy--his reaction to Ishamael proves that.

 

Basically what im saying is that your gonna have to do better than the 'you can't know that' argument. We do know that, its in the books, read them.

[The Lost One]

........ the Nym (a living being engineered with the One Power) and the Ogier to ensure healthier fields and crops but in and of itself, had nothing to do with the One Power.

 

 

I missed this one.  Where did you find this?  I thought the Nym were a race of people like the Ogier, just extinct now.  They were created with the One Power? 

 

 

[Snowy Dawn]

``Secondly, there is something that speaks to the nature of LTT's perception of Ishamel, the fact that prior to his "healing" he did not recognize Ishmael and referred to him as a "stranger", and after his healing he recognizes him and calls him by name.''

 

FWIW, In the prologue to TEOTW Elan Morin Tedronai introduces himself---by that name---when Lews Therin does not recognize him at first, and LTT responds ``Betrayer of Hope'' indicating that he at least recognizes the name. This is before Ishamael ``heals'' LTT. The passage goes on to say that Lews Therin turns away and does not look at Ishamael, so perhaps even tho' he recognizes the name, he does not fully recognize Ishamael by appearance. Nevertheless, he has

 

It is also interesting, to me at least, that Ishamael, before he ``heals'' Lews Therin, remarks that his healing will not be like that of ``one of your Sisters'', suggesting that most, if not all, Restorers (healers) of the Age of Legends were women. [The two former Restorers amongst the forsaken, viz. Graendal and Semirhage, are both women.]